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New SVS Isolation feet - Page 2

post #31 of 122
SVS claim they have developed it "with extensive accelerometer and acoustic measurements", so then let them provide the data and prove it, or let them be the subject of ridicule. Then again SVS is selling a 2 m sub RCA cable for $30 with the pitch:
Quote:
SoundPath audio cables deliver a spacious soundstage, solid three-dimensional imaging, sparkling and airy highs, an uncolored and neutral midrange and tight articulate bass
so any serious data backing their claims might not be forthcoming.
post #32 of 122
OK Guys...I guess I'm a sucker for a really bad car wreck, and just can't help but loop back around for a second look.

I don't come to AVS for this crap, nor does anyone else. It's unhelpful, and really uncalled for IMO, and if one is simply not interested in a particular product....why do they even care to comment?? Just go listen with your Cryo Spikes, or Quantum Pads and be happy.

Maybe this product could help some people? I think I might be a few out there, (Myself included) and SVS hasn't made any "promises"....but they DO give us the opportunity to try the product for ourselves without risk. If all is cool? SWELL! If not? Send it back.

Not many folks in the audio game (there IS a few) have the faith in their products to do that.

On the "Product Integrity" issue....how does a manufacture KNOW precisely what type of floor the product will be placed on? Carpet? Easily damaged hardwood? Travertine???

It's SO easy to sit on the PC...and pontificate on "shoulda-been" design features when really....it's not our problem to be concerned with in the first place. As soon as the design is finalized......it won't be long before the "Forum Physicists" chime in with their views on the failings of a particular configuration. You simply can't know what everyone needs. Do I need "Peer Review" for that?

Desigh your OWN product line. SHOW the rest of us how it's done.

In the meantime? Start designing your "Miracle", and cut the Crap. It's fatiguing.

God Bless all. (please!)

CV
Edited by CV580DRVR - 10/2/13 at 9:09pm
post #33 of 122
^^

CV, this is a site for discussion. I agree with you that there is no need to be insulting or condescending, but these discussions tend to take on a life of their own.

I see absolutely no problem in you purchasing these isolators and testing them out. Why not? SVS has free shipping both ways so you are out nothing, and if it solves your problem, then you've made a wise purchase. And if it doesn't, no harm no foul.
post #34 of 122
Mr. Russell,

You are a FINE Man! Thanks for the nice words, and I would hope that others could see the matter in much the same way as you do.

It's an accessory. Try it? Or don't. Then move on with your lives.

I must condition my commentary tonight with the fact that SVS has been extremely helpful in my personal quest for something better...and aside from purchasing TWO subwoofers that I chose myself after doing my homework over an inordinately long period of time.... (not at their (SVS's) suggestion), it's the"Customer Care" that really sold me!!!

The designer of My Sub's didn't limit his insights to things strictly related to my Sub....

We've had discussions on Room Acoustics, Speakers....Subwoofers....Family.....BBQ....Trucks....Engines, etc. He's become a family friend of sorts, and His advice has proven itself to be 100% accurate in all cases. I've come to TRUST his expertise, and in this instance? His response to my inquiry on the isolators? "Let your ears decide". Thus? My trust remains warranted!

SVS? These are some seriously GOOD people!


Give 'em a tryl
post #35 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

CV,

No one here really cares if you want to blow $50 on crap that won't do a damn thing. Go ahead. You've shown us all exactly where your priorities are. Good luck to ya.

Now, for the umpteen people that will read this thread, that will never , ever post even a "HI, I'm new here, and I don't ever post...." but will read this thread, just looking for info, please learn from what you've seen, and don't make the same mistake. This is for you, not the guy who already knows everything. You guys (and gals) are the ones that can truly benefit, and that is why so many of us keep posting the same things, to dispell myths, and hopefully to enlighten those who care to learn. "Some people, you just cant reach..." rolleyes.gif

Joseph

Oh boy! again the posse is out to tame the wild west ! there are merits to his post on the product in question , that's if you yourself have played around with various isolation. And until he( I hope) post back with his findings, will give us that do care about isolation ( not quailing sound pressure waves) a little insight on the product., you don't speak for all here, so please do refrain tongue.gif

You guys are going to give yourselves cardiac arrest if you don't chill on this crusade a bit biggrin.gif
post #36 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

^^

CV, this is a site for discussion. I agree with you that there is no need to be insulting or condescending, but these discussions tend to take on a life of their own.

I see absolutely no problem in you purchasing these isolators and testing them out. Why not? SVS has free shipping both ways so you are out nothing, and if it solves your problem, then you've made a wise purchase. And if it doesn't, no harm no foul.

There is no excuse for insults period" life of there own or not" and I do believe its a part of forum rules!
post #37 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

As a safe bet, I think I'll agree with Bill Fitzmaurice;). Well … to a point, that is (Mr. Fitzmaurice knows full well that vibrations do indeed transfer from one object to another that it is touching … it's the amount of vibration that is in question)..
Where subs are concerned it's not so much the 'amount' of vibration as it is the frequency at which said vibration occurs. A well designed and constructed sub does have panel vibrations, but they do not occur within the sub woofer pass band, nor even close to it. They occur in the midrange, and they occur with such slight intensity that they aren't audible, let alone sufficient to cause the floor to vibrate.
Quote:
I suspect if one chose not to use the pads and set up their subwoofer so the full bottom area of the chassis makes direct contact with the floor, vibration transmission may be a problem
Yes, it would, but said transmission would be the resonating floor causing the sub to vibrate, not the other way around. Simple rubber feet are all it takes to cure that issue.
post #38 of 122
If someone pays for these stuffs or expensive cables and like what he/she hears or hears an improvement, good for him/her. I just want to warn folks that sometime, there is absolutely no improvement, it just that your brain tricks you to think so after spending some good amount of money.
post #39 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CV580DRVR View Post

OK Guys...I guess I'm a sucker for a really bad car wreck, and just can't help but loop back around for a second look.

I don't come to AVS for this crap, nor does anyone else. It's unhelpful, and really uncalled for IMO, and if one is simply not interested in a particular product....why do they even care to comment?? Just go listen with your Cryo Spikes, or Quantum Pads and be happy.

Maybe this product could help some people? I think I might be a few out there, (Myself included) and SVS hasn't made any "promises"....but they DO give us the opportunity to try the product for ourselves without risk. If all is cool? SWELL! If not? Send it back.

Not many folks in the audio game (there IS a few) have the faith in their products to do that.

On the "Product Integrity" issue....how does a manufacture KNOW precisely what type of floor the product will be placed on? Carpet? Easily damaged hardwood? Travertine???

It's SO easy to sit on the PC...and pontificate on "shoulda-been" design features when really....it's not our problem to be concerned with in the first place. As soon as the design is finalized......it won't be long before the "Forum Physicists" chime in with their views on the failings of a particular configuration. You simply can't know what everyone needs. Do I need "Peer Review" for that?

Desigh your OWN product line. SHOW the rest of us how it's done.

In the meantime? Start designing your "Miracle", and cut the Crap. It's fatiguing.

God Bless all. (please!)

CV

Are any of the people saying these pads are useless promoting cryo spikes or quantum pads or $2500 cables?
post #40 of 122
The subdude thread has morphed! smile.gif
post #41 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

The subdude thread has morphed! smile.gif

Lol.. It's ALIVE! smile.gif
post #42 of 122
CV, I believe what most are trying to say here is, if one needs something to put under the sub to keep from damaging hard wood/tile floors or vibrating around, there are much more cost effective solutions at your local home depot/menards/lowes that will do the same thing as the Magical SVS isolation pads.

I think some are disappointed to see a company such as SVS take this route to make a profit. If they want to make more money its time to design some new subs. Maybe a SB13/2 with dual opposed drivers, or a SB12+ to bridge the gap between the SB12NSD and SB13...perhaps its time to up the driver size and amp power and release a super sub. I think this is a much better approach and look for a
company that helped pave the way for ID subs. Simply selling high dollar rca/coaxial sub cables and 50.00 rubber pads is a good way to push the older SVS customers away...just sayin.
post #43 of 122
I don't think designing new subs would help, although I'm sure the newer SB1000 and PB1000 has helped. Its the current prices IMO that could possibly be hurting them. The SB13 Ultra is just priced too high IMO so a dual opposed SB13/2 would be crazy expensive $2500plus. I think they just need to fine new ways of cutting costs to lower prices. With the new kids in town, PSA and with the others offering competitive alternatives, SVS doesn't have that same die hard fan base.
post #44 of 122
Salient points as usual, gtpsuper24 smile.gif
post #45 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I don't think designing new subs would help, although I'm sure the newer SB1000 and PB1000 has helped. Its the current prices IMO that could possibly be hurting them. The SB13 Ultra is just priced too high IMO so a dual opposed SB13/2 would be crazy expensive $2500plus. I think they just need to fine new ways of cutting costs to lower prices. With the new kids in town, PSA and with the others offering competitive alternatives, SVS doesn't have that same die hard fan base.

My point was selling high dollar rca/coxial cables and 50.00 rubber pads is the wrong approach for a ID sub company. That shows they are going more and more main stream. Perhaps you are right about the subs, maybe they will continue to focus on the budget end of the spectrum. Is a 300.00 SVS sub in the works next?

I think a SVS dual opposed sub could be built for less than the SB13. For one they could use a less quality driver, something along the lines of a nsd driver, but 15". Then they could ditch the digital peq on the amp and just provide the basics. There are plenty of external eq devices that are affordable that will eq up to 4+ subs anyway. I also do not think shooting for a ultra linear response with ultra low thd is a huge deal either. The room is going to dictate the response anyway and in most cases some external eq will be needed. Also most folks will never notice higher thd levels especially with lower order harmonics.
post #46 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think a SVS dual opposed sub could be built for less than the SB13. For one they could use a less quality driver, something along the lines of a nsd driver, but 15". Then they could ditch the digital peq on the amp and just provide the basics. There are plenty of external eq devices that are affordable that will eq up to 4+ subs anyway. I also do not think shooting for a ultra linear response with ultra low thd is a huge deal either. The room is going to dictate the response anyway and in most cases some external eq will be needed. Also most folks will never notice higher thd levels especially with lower order harmonics.

And then they'd have....the XS30 tongue.gif

I can't say I'm entirely enthralled with the price points they've reached, even with some of the value adds (long warranty, 45 day trial w/ free shipping return, etc). I know I'm looking to eventually replace my PB13 with a pair of small sealed subs and while the SB13 is on the short list, it's not really easy to justify the added cost between it and the Rythmik E15. I'd wonder how much a "value finish" option could knock off there.
Edited by Steve1981 - 10/3/13 at 9:52am
post #47 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

And then they'd have....the XS30 tongue.gif

I can't say I'm entirely enthralled with the price points they've reached, even with some of the value adds (long warranty, 45 day trial w/ free shipping return, etc). I know I'm looking to eventually replace my PB13 with a pair of small sealed subs and while the SB13 is on the short list, it's not really easy to justify the added cost between it and the Rythmik E15. I'd wonder how much a "value finish" option could knock off there.

It's uncommon in here to see someone make the case for a worse performing subwoofer. To be honest I like the idea of having a very low distortion sub available, even when driven to high levels. That is something I aim to achieve with my next sub setup, which will be a DIY. Anyway, Steve you are a knowledgeable guy, why aren't you considering a DIY setup? With the variety of drivers available, you have a much greater selection of the kind of performance you want to achieve. You also have a much, much greater range of cabinet aesthetics to choose from. I would think a guy who is into subs as much as you would be looking pretty closely into that.
post #48 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It's uncommon in here to see someone make the case for a worse performing subwoofer.
While I'm not likely to match the output capabilities of the PB13U at 20Hz, after a good bit of in room testing and playing with the PB13's various operating modes, I've concluded that a couple of small sealed subs would be an overall better fit for my space, both from performance and aesthetic perspectives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Anyway, Steve you are a knowledgeable guy, why aren't you considering a DIY setup? With the variety of drivers available, you have a much greater selection of the kind of performance you want to achieve. You also have a much, much greater range of cabinet aesthetics to choose from. I would think a guy who is into subs as much as you would be looking pretty closely into that.
I appreciate the kind words, but I'm not a DIYer wink.gif However, I do have some feelers out for a custom build as well.
Edited by Steve1981 - 10/3/13 at 12:39pm
post #49 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It's uncommon in here to see someone make the case for a worse performing subwoofer. To be honest I like the idea of having a very low distortion sub available, even when driven to high levels. That is something I aim to achieve with my next sub setup, which will be a DIY. Anyway, Steve you are a knowledgeable guy, why aren't you considering a DIY setup? With the variety of drivers available, you have a much greater selection of the kind of performance you want to achieve. You also have a much, much greater range of cabinet aesthetics to choose from. I would think a guy who is into subs as much as you would be looking pretty closely into that.


I have noticed several on this forum go from a PB13 sub to something with a less linear response and more lower order thd and like the sub better. Just goes to show ya max burst performance metrics are not everything.
Edited by basshead81 - 10/3/13 at 1:41pm
post #50 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

And then they'd have....the XS30 tongue.gif

I can't say I'm entirely enthralled with the price points they've reached, even with some of the value adds (long warranty, 45 day trial w/ free shipping return, etc). I know I'm looking to eventually replace my PB13 with a pair of small sealed subs and while the SB13 is on the short list, it's not really easy to justify the added cost between it and the Rythmik E15. I'd wonder how much a "value finish" option could knock off there.

Lol yes yes I know the XS30 is a option, but there are not many dual opposed subs available under 2k. It would be nice to see something similar show up in the SVS line up.

I think SVS offers great incentives which makes them a Top cotender. I find myself recomending the PB-1000 and SB12 quite frequently. However once one looks past the NSD line, the + and ultra subs tend to get spendy compared to what else is available in that price range. Especially since the Rythmik FV15HP has been out. Yes its not quite as linear and shows more lower order thd, but at its price point vs performance and SQ its hard to choose the PB13 over it. I like your thinking and those E15's are very appealing.
post #51 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

CV, I believe what most are trying to say here is, if one needs something to put under the sub to keep from damaging hard wood/tile floors or vibrating around, there are much more cost effective solutions at your local home depot/menards/lowes that will do the same thing as the Magical SVS isolation pads.

I think some are disappointed to see a company such as SVS take this route to make a profit. If they want to make more money its time to design some new subs. Maybe a SB13/2 with dual opposed drivers, or a SB12+ to bridge the gap between the SB12NSD and SB13...perhaps its time to up the driver size and amp power and release a super sub. I think this is a much better approach and look for a
company that helped pave the way for ID subs. Simply selling high dollar rca/coaxial sub cables and 50.00 rubber pads is a good way to push the older SVS customers away...just sayin.

totally agree..thumbs up.....I've been a loyal fan/product owner, and up until now with this new addition of snake oil I may let the wind blow me in another direction with future purchases. ed mullen if your viewing this thread, take basshead81's advise and go back to the drawing board with something worth bragging about.
post #52 of 122
Coming from the standpoint of having enjoyed so many of SVS’s offerings I find myself looking where to file their latest offering. Having it there is one thing, but the wording surrounding it makes me cringe. I say this because I have always had a healthy dose of respect for SVS and ED.. Tom also when he was there.. not that I don’t anymore. I know 15” drivers have been brought up to them many times in the past by myself and others, so it did not surprise me at all when PSA came out with all their 15” options albeit I know a great deal can be achieved with 12”s. That being said I believe SVS can’t rest on their laurels, if they do, I expect to see them downsize over time regardless what new markets are reached. A niche I see is the PR option they could explore, low distortion, smaller enclosure what a reg 15” vented would require, great SQ and SPL. I dunno? it’s just a thought. If not them, someone will in time. Things are what they are though, so in the end SVS can do whatever they like, they certainly don’t need our blessing, but if I were in business, I would admittedly rather have it. I know we’re a small clan, but none the same it doesn’t hurt. Whoever brought up more options is what I wish they/SVS would do instead of another route. I just don’t see staying planted in the same spot so long as a good thing considering how the landscape keeps changing. The Co. I worked for 24 years was all about staying ahead and admittedly it was a big pain in the you know what! change-change-change They are still are No.1 though. This being said with no consideration of pricing, that of course is always a factor. Who knows, maybe SVS does not have any choice in the matter now??
Edited by steve nn - 10/5/13 at 6:21am
post #53 of 122
Steve, someone ought to simply make a commercial version of the sub you made. A heavy duty 12" with two PRs, you get big performance from a small package. SVS could probably do the same with their Plus driver.
post #54 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I never looked, but could you just order 2 inch rubber blocks and do something similar?

Not sure how much those would be....I'll check.

Yep. Plenty of cheaper options here: http://www.parts-express.com/cat/case-cabinet-feet/3467
post #55 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I never looked, but could you just order 2 inch rubber blocks and do something similar?

Not sure how much those would be....I'll check.

Yep. Plenty of cheaper options here: http://www.parts-express.com/cat/case-cabinet-feet/3467

Good source. Also search eBay for "Sorbothane".
post #56 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Steve, someone ought to simply make a commercial version of the sub you made. A heavy duty 12" with two PRs, you get big performance from a small package. SVS could probably do the same with their Plus driver.

I honestly don’t see why not, it’s not like a bunch of company's are doing it because of the cost factor of the PR’s. Thing is though, their cost per driver would make some wonder why not? Size is such a factor with many, spl is always a consideration for anyone in the know, and the all important SQ! Done right it’s a very nice option. I know Bob with CSS had Jeff B do his homework in designing the 12” SDX dual PR http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=Quartet12XD%20Subwoofer%20Kit and I have no doubt Funk did the same with their 18” driver dual PR 18.3 option. http://www.funkaudio.ca/18.3_Overview.html I wouldn’t be surprised if some major Id Co. who ran with it could do really well. Look at how much the Klipsh is going for, http://www.klipsch.com/p-312w-subwoofer/details#specs SVS, PSA, Rythmik or HSU could do much better imo. No reason why it has to cost that much! The Funk 18.3 is the same cost with a 18” driver.

Sorry for the rant, back to reg feet, or should I say "system" programing.. it does pertain as a other direction though instead of big $$ feet.
post #57 of 122
Isolation systems does work, for speakers at least. See IsoAcoustics. For subs, it's less clear.
post #58 of 122
Curious, where is Ed on all of this? wink.gif
post #59 of 122
OK – I waded through this thread and have a few comments. I’ll preface them by saying I’m not interested in changing anyone’s opinion over this product or its efficacy – nor do I want to come off as being defensive.

We’ve received literally hundreds of customer comments over the years all basically stating the same thing: “I moved my subwoofer from a wooden floor over an open space to a concrete floor in a similar size room - and the reduction in felt/tactile vibration was huge. The couch/chairs don’t vibrate nearly as much anymore”. This is a massive body of anecdotal evidence, and anyone who has experienced it first-hand knows it’s not a placebo effect.

I’ve also witnessed (standing in the basement staring up at the floor) a pair of PC13-Ultra create obvious flexing of a well-constructed wooden floor with standard construction joists. The word ‘trampoline’ came to mind…..

To flatly state a subwoofer’s only potential medium of vibration transmission is acoustic air pressure - is simply not true. Transmission of tactile vibration is often significant in many subwoofer applications – some people love this effect, and some hate it and attempt to reduce it. The huge popularity of isolation platforms and the attendant reduction in tactile vibration transmission they provide is more than sufficient evidence there is a real need for these types of products. I will unequivocally state this product will not alter/reduce any objectionable artifacts which are exclusively attributable to acoustic air pressure from the subwoofer, and naturally neither will an isolation platform.

We started this project with the basic premise of offering a discreet alternative to visually obtrusive and unattractive (albeit effective) isolation platforms. As a member of the design team, my only requirement was that this product needed to provide a significant reduction in the transmission of tactile vibration – or it wasn’t getting to market.

Using an accelerometer mounted to the flooring near the subwoofer, and test frequencies within the typical subwoofer pass band - we measured the levels of vibration transmitted through a standard wooden floor over an open space – which is basically the target application for isolation products like this. This is not a COTS hard rubber foot. We varied the rubber durometer (i.e., Shore Hardness scale) and the foot OD, ID, height and even the shape/curvature of the foot bottom. All of these variables had a pronounced effect on the level of transmitted vibration, and the final design ultimately proved much more effective than our standard small, high-durometer screw-in foot.

Also, anyone who suspects SVS is making a big profit off these isolation feet is wrong. The anodized steel shell, custom-tooled low durometer foot, and all the included hardware (the 6 foot system ships with 30 (!) machine screws) add up - and frankly our margins are super slim. We brought this product to market as an affordable and cool way to engage our customer base, and offer a viable solution to clunky low-WAF isolation platforms – and I think we succeeded.
post #60 of 122
Mr. Mullen.

Well written piece. Thank You.

Engage your Customer base you have done indeed! My "offending" furnishings have not emitted a single "peep" since the "Soundpath" isolation feet were installed, and there may also be some subjective evidence of even further benefits in my installation.

Thank You for a very worthwhile product. However "experimental" it may be in one's own installation, I can wholeheartedly encourage anyone to give them a Try.

CV
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