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Dual LMS 5400 Ultras - Page 2

post #31 of 138
"I realize there's commonly used and well vetted best practices with the LMS 5400 Ultras, wrt box size and wattage. But what is the free air power handling of the driver, as if it were employed in an OB or IB?"

risky with a linear motor technology driver that hard bottoms. just say'n.

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post #32 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

risky with a linear motor technology driver that hard bottoms..
Yep, that's the price you pay for the efficiency...

As long as you don't push it beyond this level of excursion, you'll be fine.

When the surround starts to dimple, back it down OR ELSE! eek.gif
post #33 of 138
I was in line to get two Lms 5400s until I got screwed over By Ed in getting my boxes built. A part of me still regrets not getting my hand on two of these Bentleys of the subwoofer world. I'm a music first guy and these are touted as being the best sq driver available in the marketplace today. I would like to see a crown xti 6000 driving a pair of these but I'm sure the clone 14k is the most economical option. My gut feeling tells me a Inuke 12000 might be the dream lost cost amp with a warranty needed to drive a pair of these but alas we will most likely have to wait until 2014 to find out.
post #34 of 138
You can easily get the hardware store to cut your wood panels to the correct dimensions for a bit of extra money. ($120)
You'd likely have to do without bracing if you don't have a saw, but that would get you over the hill.
Then just pick up an el-cheapo router and clamps, and some glue and polyfill. ($130)

So for $250 you could be up and running, the box would likely look ghetto (especially without good binding posts) but it would still work fairly well. 95% of the SQ.
post #35 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

I was in line to get two Lms 5400s until I got screwed over By Ed in getting my boxes built. A part of me still regrets not getting my hand on two of these Bentleys of the subwoofer world. I'm a music first guy and these are touted as being the best sq driver available in the marketplace today. I would like to see a crown xti 6000 driving a pair of these but I'm sure the clone 14k is the most economical option. My gut feeling tells me a Inuke 12000 might be the dream lost cost amp with a warranty needed to drive a pair of these but alas we will most likely have to wait until 2014 to find out.

Nah, get two 6000s and you won't have to rely on one super amp.
post #36 of 138
Thread Starter 
Unless I'm wrong, and I'm never wrong, they are headed dead into the fireswamp....I mean..um....

It is my understanding the 6000 is two 3000s bridged and cannot be bridged. Thus you'd be running on one channel of the 6000 @ 4 ohms and only supplying 3000ish peak watts per sub...is this not accurate. The 12000 would be 6000 watts per sub...
post #37 of 138
Hmm, I had never heard of a Behringer that could not be bridged.
post #38 of 138
to get 6000 per dual bridged side or about 4400 real watts, the driver would need to be 2ohm.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/NU1000_NU3000_NU6000_NU12000_NU1000DSP_NU3000DSP_NU6000DSP_NU12000DSP_WebBrochure.pdf
post #39 of 138
the 6000 cannot be bridged as it is a pair of bridged 3000 per side internally already...as I understand it.
post #40 of 138
Well, then hell, get the iNUKE NU4-6000 instead. No biggie!
post #41 of 138
Thread Starter 
It was my understanding that Behringer has plainly said that the NU6000 is two NU3000s in the same chasis, seems to me that if you bridged them it would be similar to trying to hook up any two amps together into the same sub? I would think this to be a bad idea.
post #42 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Low enough that you'd be able able to cook two Ultra's with one nu3k before clipping it.
Which would save big $ on the amp.

I'm curious how the ol' EP4K mates up to an Ultra, ... I believe it's stereo 635w@4ohm

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

so what you're saying is I could do what? Are you talking dual opposed boxes or like IB in my floor? or??

It's merely a suggestion, since you were in a bit of a quandary regarding amplification.

But sure, any of that. Maybe an "outie", a dual opposed outie.

Here's one such example.

Some sealed subs may still be the way to go. I was just throwing out other options, that would allow for a dramatically less capable amplifier.

IB, small sealed, each has it's trade-offs.
post #43 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

It was my understanding that Behringer has plainly said that the NU6000 is two NU3000s in the same chasis, seems to me that if you bridged them it would be similar to trying to hook up any two amps together into the same sub? I would think this to be a bad idea.

Meaning, they are already bridged....

Bridging is effectively running two amps into the same sub.
post #44 of 138
I'll bet that a single ep4k bridged could power a single LMS-Ultra with no issues. Plenty of power there AND cheap.
post #45 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I'll bet that a single ep4k bridged could power a single LMS-Ultra with no issues. Plenty of power there AND cheap.

Yes, that is my point. I wouldn't worry about getting a super amp. I would throw some cheap power at it and see where you are. I fully subscribe to the overkill mantra, but I also have a finite wallet. Until you really know what you are dealing with....for all you know 1500w per driver might be plenty.
post #46 of 138
@scott, in a large enclosure...

in a small enclosure or if you really want the extra on the top end 4-5kw spec amp.
post #47 of 138
Meh. That's only a possible extra 3dB and that's at the extreme end of the mechanical and electrical capabilities of the driver anyway so .... I would only want >2kw on an LMS-U if I were using an enclosure under 3cuft for or so and most don't.

Just my opinion. I think most WAY overstate the supposed high power "requirements" for enjoying the LMS-Ultra.
post #48 of 138
Thread Starter 
Meh I have an EPX 4000 that I will continue to use on my 15s, If I have to buy an amp, I'm ok spending a little more to get something that might get me those extra 3 dB I think.
post #49 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

@scott, in a large enclosure...

in a small enclosure or if you really want the extra on the top end 4-5kw spec amp.

I agree totally.

However, I have two LMSs in 4.5-5 cf enclosures and they are probably seeing less than 1500w a piece and I an hit some serious SPLs in a very large space...granted I have another sub in the mix.

Plus the OP already has two other subs, albeit they are bottoming under demands. But, I would try one EP or 6000 driving both and see. If not, you can always add another to double the power.

I wish I had more power to feed them, but with the difficulty of running another dedicated circuit to the required location, too much power is not a good thing either.

All I am saying is that I would try things before I went crazy buying amps. I would see if there is another member close that can loan you and amp for a half hour torture session.
post #50 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

risky with a linear motor technology driver that hard bottoms. just say'n.

just like every IB (unless you employ a HP), amp selection is crucial. multiple drivers allows some creativity in load config
post #51 of 138
meh...talk to 'not. :-) a big advantage of a bigger amp is that not only do you get more watts but you are also more likely to actually get the watts at the lower level...
post #52 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

meh...talk to 'not. :-) a big advantage of a bigger amp is that not only do you get more watts but you are also more likely to actually get the watts at the lower level...

True Dat. And Meh. biggrin.gif
post #53 of 138
Heheh. Okay. Fair enough. smile.gif
post #54 of 138
mehehehe :-)
post #55 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

to get 6000 per dual bridged side or about 4400 real watts, the driver would need to be 2ohm.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/NU1000_NU3000_NU6000_NU12000_NU1000DSP_NU3000DSP_NU6000DSP_NU12000DSP_WebBrochure.pdf

SOmeone somewhere in one of these threads had emailed Behringer about that. The Brochure says 2 x 3000 @ 4 ohms for the NU12000 and just under it the NU6000 says 2 x 3100 @ 4 ohms....that would mean a single 6000 is more powerful than the new NU12000......The response was "the brochure is wrong it should say 2x 6000 @ 4 ohms....I have emailed behringer to verify
post #56 of 138
I never saw the LMS move more than 1" with a bridged EP4k before it starts clipping, and that was a 7ft^3 box.
Or about 1/3 it's potential excursion.

It will definitely work, but if you thump loud the EP turns into a squarewave generator.
post #57 of 138
I never really paid much attention to the excursion on mine but it isn't near xmax for sure. But, I never clipped the amp either.
post #58 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I'll bet that a single ep4k bridged could power a single LMS-Ultra with no issues. Plenty of power there AND cheap.

Coming from running dual 5400's on two EP4000s to running both on one clone... All i can say is the EP4000 are OK but when it gets down to pushing them to "impressive" levels you simply need more power. The clone will WOW you... These are also run in a very large space.
post #59 of 138
Just wanted to share my experience with LMS drivers and behringer amps.

I am using 2 behringer EP2500/4000 that powers an LMS ultra and an Exodus Maelstrom both in 3 cubic feet cabinets. So they are both getting around 1500-2000w power.

They have never clipped on me for my use. I am unable to reach X-max in this configuration and the system is powerlimited.

What I have experienced is, that my lights in the room will dim on heavy impact scenes! Appearently these amps draw so much current from my house, that my bottleneck in fact is my power outlet? I live in Europe, so on a 230v 13 amp line.

I then recently built 4 x TC souncs epic 10" subs. They are mounted on my rear wall as balance subs. They are in Q 0.5 cabs. Modelling in winisd they would xmax with around 4-500w power.

I bought an Inuke 6000DSP to power them!

I wired it up so that the amp sees 2 x 8 ohm, since the amp can't be bridged anyways.

So watching several scenes now, this inuke amp clips now and then running these 4 subs. I wouldnt have expected that to be honest!

It does get quite warm, I have fan modded it, and it is SILENT now:) I am planning to make some ventilation on the cabinet where it resides.

I did read somewhere, a guy built a paradigm sub2 clone using 6 x 10" epics and he was amazed how much power they required.

So whats your take?

My own initial response here is, that the inuke isn't as solid as the EP4000 version? Running of the same outlet the EP's never clip but this new inuke does indeed.

So anyways, to the OP.

I wouldnt worry using behringer EP4000 to power a LMS ultra! If I build new boxes I would go for 4-5 cubic feet, but I needed a small box.

I think it's been said before: Buy as much power as your budget allows.

Not that I am unhappy with my EP's, but I'm tempted to try the Lab clone.
Edited by clausdk - 10/5/13 at 2:39am
post #60 of 138
I found the Ep4000 terrible at powering the Chase 18.2s I owned previously. And they used fairly efficient efficient drivers. I would not advise using this amp for powering subs.
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