or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dual LMS 5400 Ultras
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dual LMS 5400 Ultras - Page 3

post #61 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

I found the Ep4000 terrible at powering the Chase 18.2s I owned previously. And they used fairly efficient efficient drivers. I would not advise using this amp for powering subs.

Isn't the Chase 18.2 around 1600RMS? I would expect a bridged Ep4000 to be perfect for a pair of chases.
Not sure what issues you were having with the Ep4000?.... but there's tons of forum members with them, and I wager most are powering subwoofers.
I use mine bridged on a Zv3 18" 6cuft sealed, and it blasts the hell out of it.... never clipped, or had an issues at all yet.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 138
I've owned 7 Ep 4000. I believe they are a great amp for powering speakers. However their bass was subpar with my 18.2s. I love the amp for speaker use. But I would never use one again to power any large subwoofer.

From my experience with the demoing the Lms 5400 I don't consider them very efficient. I would not use anything other than a clone amp to power one to near full potential. I would never try to power a 5400 using a EP 4000.
Edited by Swolephile - 10/5/13 at 3:17am
post #63 of 138
Yep, everyone has a different opinion, differing expectations, budgets and perceived results.
That's the great thing about this hobby and this country. Do what works best for you!
post #64 of 138
Whats the reasoning in selecting the lms over the uxl if underpowered with an ep4000? I guess i am asking why pay more for a strong motored linear to xmax low distortion driver if never approaching xmax?
post #65 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Whats the reasoning in selecting the lms over the uxl if underpowered with an ep4000? I guess i am asking why pay more for a strong motored linear to xmax low distortion driver if never approaching xmax?

Who is doing that?
post #66 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

Who is doing that?

People who don't have their gear running at 100% constantly?
post #67 of 138
Thread Starter 
Are you suggesting the distortion numbers are closer at -10 to -5 where I watch movies?
post #68 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

Are you suggesting the distortion numbers are closer at -10 to -5 where I watch movies?

Set volume is irrelevant. What I am saying is that the LMS-U has the advantage (compared to the UXL) mostly at the extreme edge of it's capability. Speakers are not like lightbulbs running at 100%. They are dynamic. Even in the craziest, loudest action movie your sub system will not be running full excursion, full power at every given moment.
post #69 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post

What I have experienced is, that my lights in the room will dim on heavy impact scenes! Appearently these amps draw so much current from my house, that my bottleneck in fact is my power outlet? I live in Europe, so on a 230v 13 amp line.


Diming lights is a symptom of voltage drop being present somewhere in the system.
Not necessarily the outlet itself (however possible), but somewhere in the entire path to feed the lights, the delivery of voltage/current is encountering voltage drop.


If the lights and subwoofer are on the same circuit, some aspect of the circuit is inadequate.

If the lights and sub are on separate circuits, then it may be more complex upstream. There's still voltage drop, yes. When a load on one circuit causes lights to dim on another circuit, that means that the shared feeder is the issue. Several things could be the culprit, examples being;
... a less than optimal connection/termination
... a marginal breaker
... an undersized conductor
... a marginal or slightly damaged conductor

This is a performance bottle-neck, no question. A dedicated circuit, and ample upstream ampacity is the answer.

If you're qualified, check it out. If you're the least bit uncomfortable, I'd seek out someone qualified. It may be a simple fix, it may be more in depth. I would at least suggest someone check it out to assure everything is ok. If you can put up with the dimming, that's cool. But it'd be nice to make sure the entire electrical system is sound. It's no uncommon, but it is a symptom indicating something is beyond it's capacity.
post #70 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Diming lights is a symptom of voltage drop being present somewhere in the system.
Not necessarily the outlet itself (however possible), but somewhere in the entire path to feed the lights, the delivery of voltage/current is encountering voltage drop.


If the lights and subwoofer are on the same circuit, some aspect of the circuit is inadequate.

If the lights and sub are on separate circuits, then it may be more complex upstream. There's still voltage drop, yes. When a load on one circuit causes lights to dim on another circuit, that means that the shared feeder is the issue. Several things could be the culprit, examples being;
... a less than optimal connection/termination
... a marginal breaker
... an undersized conductor
... a marginal or slightly damaged conductor

This is a performance bottle-neck, no question. A dedicated circuit, and ample upstream ampacity is the answer.

If you're qualified, check it out. If you're the least bit uncomfortable, I'd seek out someone qualified. It may be a simple fix, it may be more in depth. I would at least suggest someone check it out to assure everything is ok. If you can put up with the dimming, that's cool. But it'd be nice to make sure the entire electrical system is sound. It's no uncommon, but it is a symptom indicating something is beyond it's capacity.

Thanks for the input.

I was going to call a local electrician who has done some outdoor lighting for me.
I thought about getting 2 more dedicated lines in there. Anyways handing it over to a pro.

Combining all of my gear it quite a bit of power required.
post #71 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

Who is doing that?

I was asking as I don't know what differences would be found between the drivers with real world use on the ep4000 with l/t in room 3 cube enclosure. I was trying to figure out what kind of power was applied on the sweeps over at data-base and testing wasnt fully completed such as distortion sweeps on the uxl. You got some nice posts from users and there experience of lms powered by the ep, was wondering if any users of uxl and ep would chime in.

Like Scott says movies are dynamic and those last few mm of clean excursion is what mostly what seperates these drivers. Room gain helps to lower distortion in the low bass. Both drivers have had issues such as lms demagnatized and shipping issues... I believe the gentleman who has been selling the enclosures tried an uxl. I was just trying to drum up some discussion between your options of power and drivers to help steer your decision. smile.gif

Good luck. I hope whichever way you go satisfies your bass cravings!
post #72 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

I was asking as I don't know what differences would be found between the drivers with real world use on the ep4000 with l/t in room 3 cube enclosure. I was trying to figure out what kind of power was applied on the sweeps over at data-base and testing wasnt fully completed such as distortion sweeps on the uxl. You got some nice posts from users and there experience of lms powered by the ep, was wondering if any users of uxl and ep would chime in.

Like Scott says movies are dynamic and those last few mm of clean excursion is what mostly what seperates these drivers. Room gain helps to lower distortion in the low bass. Both drivers have had issues such as lms demagnatized and shipping issues... I believe the gentleman who has been selling the enclosures tried an uxl. I was just trying to drum up some discussion between your options of power and drivers to help steer your decision. smile.gif

Good luck. I hope whichever way you go satisfies your bass cravings!

Thanks, I'll either use an IPR 7500 or NU12000 I think...I think I wanna get the best sub possible for clean low end bass. My 15s can get decent response in the 30-100 Hz range, not so much lower than that...the UXL starts out 2 dB below the LMS below 30 Hz and I'm not, at least now, interested in buying 4 new subs. I don't really want a million subs in my room. I realize I could sell my 15s and use 4 18s which may happen down the road, but not right now
post #73 of 138
Thread Starter 
So Archaea thinks I should sell my 15s either way and just use the 18s, if/when I get them. In looking at the amp options, the NU12000 isn't available until next year and the specs look....well...worthless to me...so looking at my epx4000 which is bridgable to 4ohms and supposedly supplies 3000W RMS @ 4 ohms bridged and 4000W max...the Peavey IPR 7500 is apparently not bridgable at all and only supplies 2400W into 4 ohms...I think getting another epx4000 might be the best option for me.
post #74 of 138
Unless he uses the Dayton 15's MK3's near field then I don't think they'll do much of anything to help him out if coupled with a pair of LMS-5400 drivers --- except add distortion and limit the system overall.
post #75 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Unless he uses the Dayton 15's MK3's near field then I don't think they'll do much of anything to help him out if coupled with a pair of LMS-5400 drivers --- except add distortion and limit the system overall.

I recommend this to him last year when he was considering picking up some SI 18's. tongue.gif
post #76 of 138
Thread Starter 
Touché Scott, touché...
post #77 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

Touché Scott, touché...

That being said, it is a decent choice and let's you keep what you have now and saving some dough along the way. Are you still considering LMS-U's or something else?
post #78 of 138
Thread Starter 
I'd like a pair of LMS-Us...I have a pair of 3.5 cubic foot sealed enclosures and I think I want to spring for the best
post #79 of 138
If you're looking for the best, the TC LMS-Ultra is the driver you want. smile.gif
post #80 of 138
Thread Starter 
I feel like I would be settling if I get anything else...I'm not looking for more volume anywhere except 30 Hz and down
post #81 of 138
There is nothing worse than regret. Get what makes you happy! smile.gif
post #82 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

I feel like I would be settling if I get anything else...I'm not looking for more volume anywhere except 30 Hz and down

Then take those LMS Ultras and build a pair of Gjallarhorns. You will experience LF violence unlike 99.999% of the general public has ever experienced.
post #83 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

Then take those LMS Ultras and build a pair of Gjallarhorns. You will experience LF violence unlike 99.999% of the general public has ever experienced.

Yep, and you would need so little power to do it. Hence, the appeal of a horn.
post #84 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Yep, and you would need so little power to do it. Hence, the appeal of a horn.

of course don't foget the insane size compromises for a horn. even giant LLT's pale in comparison to the size of a horn lol
post #85 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

of course don't foget the insane size compromises for a horn. even giant LLT's pale in comparison to the size of a horn lol


Sure, there is no free lunch. EVERY design is an exercise in compromise.
post #86 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Sure, there is no free lunch. EVERY design is an exercise in compromise.

but I LIKE free lunches wink.gif
post #87 of 138
Thread Starter 
That would take up 1/3 my room, no thanks! I can stack 4 of these sealed in the same space as one horn....I think I"ll stick with dual sealed LMS-Us
post #88 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

but I LIKE free lunches wink.gif

Me too! I wish they came with 18" drivers.
post #89 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

That would take up 1/3 my room, no thanks! I can stack 4 of these sealed in the same space as one horn....I think I"ll stick with dual sealed LMS-Us

I definitely understand where you are coming from, been there.

Regarding horns, you could always go with the long and low version...stand it up in a corner for a small footprint or lay it down along a wall or behind a couch. The output would be insane from just one. Two have the potential to level your structure. If you shoehorn a horn or two in, you might be a changed man. I never wanted or cared for them until about 5 years ago. After building a few I am forever changed. I have outdoor subs that are horns as well. With only 75w they rock my whole outdoor space and the $75 in drivers are not even exposed to the weather (left outside all season) as per the design, where they would be with a sealed or ported setup. People are amazed when I fire it up, I get "holy **** this system rocks"! So, for what a $175 gets me (including wood and amp), it would take a $1000 or more to even come close with a sealed setup.

Same goes for my room now. I have two sealed LMSs and love them! But, If I really want to push them I would need to rewire the room to get enough amplification. Instead, I added a horn and utilized a spare amp channel with less than a 1000w and the entire house shakes like the floor is being ripped up. In order to get that same effect with more LMSs and amps it would cost me several thousand dollars more, not including the wiring upgrade.

Horns certainly aren't for everyone and they don't always look pretty. There are simply rooms where they are simply not feasible. However, if you can get over the size, it is insane what you get with so little money and effort.
I too never wanted a large enclosure in my room due to aesthetics. But, now, I am willing to redesign everything in order to fit one more in. It's like anything, once you get a taste for insane levels of bass, there is no substitute.

Of course, that is the great thing about the bass journey, there are many roads to get you there.

If you use the LMS or UXL you can ues them in either setup, horned or sealed.
Edited by jpmst3 - 10/8/13 at 11:32am
post #90 of 138
I also waffled between the UXL and LMS and in the end went with 3 of the LMS 5400s due to the no compromises approach and not finding a review that compared the SQ of the UXL to the LMS. I just received two of my LMS 5400s last Thursday and hope to receive the third one next week. I will be powering mine by a rack-mount SpeakerPower SP2-8000, which will give a conservative 2,000 watts per channel. Keep in mind the SpeakerPower amps are the same ones used in the Seaton and JTR subs among others. Just throwing out an alternative amp, although it is definitely more expensive than the pro amps being discussed. Couple of advantages is low idle power and quiet fan option, which many of the pro amps being discussed simply do not have and would need to be modified.

I hope to build some 6-7 cu.ft. boxes for the LMS 5400s so I can hear them by the weekend. Can't wait.

David
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Dual LMS 5400 Ultras