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Samsung KN55S9C 55 inch OLED owners thread - Page 6

post #151 of 438
Thought I would share pics of my Samsung S9C image.jpg 646k .jpg file image.jpg 652k .jpg file
post #152 of 438

post #153 of 438
Awesome combo. Congrats!
post #154 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

AVforums has posted its recommended settings for the S9C, and they note the adjustments can vary between OLEDs. I will compare with my settings later tonight.

Picture Mode: Movie

Cell Light: 10

Contrast: 80

Brightness: 45

Sharpness: 0

Colour: 50

Tint: G50/R50

Picture Size

Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced Settings

Dynamic Contrast: Off

Black Tone: Off

Flesh Tone: 0

RGB Only Mode: Off

Colour Space: Auto

White Balance 2-Point: Red Offset 24, Green Offset 25, Blue Offset 25, Red Gain 26, Green Gain 20, Blue Gain 27

White Balance 10-Point: 1 - R0/G0/B0, 2 - R0/G0/B0, 3 - R-4/G0/B0, 4 - R0/G0/B0, 5 - R0/G0/B0, 6 - R0/G0/B0, 7 - R0/G0/B0, 8 - R0/G0/B0, 9 - R0/G0/B0, 10 - R0/G0/B0

Gamma: 0

Expert Pattern: Off

Motion Lighting: Off

Picture Options

Colour Tone: Warm2

Digital Clean View: Off

MPEG Noise Filter: Off

HDMI Black Level: Low (If applicable)

Film Mode: Auto2 (If applicable)

Motion Plus: Off

I would keep Motion Plus on, with judder set to zero. The image is noticeably smoother, especially with TV content.
post #155 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post



Good looking setup the white tv bench made the sammy oled design look good...
post #156 of 438
Won't that white top reflect light into the screen? You know, angle of reflection/ angle of incident thing.
post #157 of 438
Actually the white top does not reflect any light whatsoever, but then again whenever I am watching the set the lights are totally off and my room is totally dark day and night because of all the curtains I have on the windows. One thing I will say is I have been an owner of the pioneer 141, sharp elite, and have a kuro 110 and panasonic vt50 and the Samsung S9C really has the best picture of all the sets except for motion it definitely does not handle it like the pioneers do.
post #158 of 438
Here's something, the video from my Oppo player is arriving late to the OLED, causing lip sync to be off with Bluray movies. I went to the Oppo 105 thread, and Bob Pariseau suggested I turn off all noise reduction features and processing in the Samsung that might be delaying the picture. I also turned off the internet/wifi operation, to make sure that wasn't the cause.

My Oppo is connected to the OLED via HDMI for video, and for audio I use the analog outputs. If I connect both audio and video from the Oppo to the TV, via HDMI, the problem is corrected.

To make up for the video delay while using the Oppo's analog outputs, I set the A/V Sync on the player to 160 ms, which is near max. I'll keep it there till I find the cause.

In the meantime, I've ordered the Disney Wow disc to dial in the correct setting for the A/V Sync.

Edit: confirmed with the Wow disc, the video is late, or the audio is too early, which ever way you want to look at it.

With the A/V Sync on the Oppo player set to 0, the rotating line on the test pattern beeps at the 166.6 milliseconds, which indicates the audio is too early. That's if I use the analog outputs (I'm not using my AVR right now and I haven't tested the digital audio output on the player, except when I turn off the power amps and use the internal speakers on the TV. With internal speakers, the audio and video are perfectly in sync)

Like I said, setting the A/V Sync to 160-170 milliseconds works for me with the analog outputs.
Edited by Pres2play - 11/15/13 at 11:30am
post #159 of 438
It's already been established in numerous reviews that both 55" OLEDs have very high input lag. It's close to the number of ms your reported. That's why it's totally unsuitable for games and will introduce lip-sync issues with external audio. For watching non-interactive video, the solution is simple - adjust the delay in your receiver to match the delay of the display. Of course some receivers may not have enough range for such high delay (my Denon tops out at 100 ms).

The reason you don't hear this issue when using the TV's speakers is because Samsung delays the audio automatically when it comes in together with video over HDMI. There is nothing wrong with the Oppo.
post #160 of 438
Not a gaming tv this tv cool.gif lg oled has high lag aswell ,but half what this has.
Edited by vaktmestern - 11/16/13 at 3:52am
post #161 of 438
I thought you only had to worry about input lag if you are a gamer. Apparently not so.

Here is a note from the Input Lag thread at AVS explaining one of the causes...


Expensive image processing such as dynamic contrast and motion interpolation

(EXAMPLE: enabling “Auto Motion Plus” on a Samsung HDTV)
post #162 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play 
I thought you only had to worry about input lag if you are a gamer. Apparently not so.

Here is a note from the Input Lag thread at AVS explaining one of the causes...


Expensive image processing such as dynamic contrast and motion interpolation

(EXAMPLE: enabling “Auto Motion Plus” on a Samsung HDTV)

Less Input Lag = worse image


When you own a FALD Local Dimming will be disabled in Game Mode.

And it does not stop there; Color Processing, Noise Reduction, Advanced Scalling..

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57558145-221/what-is-game-mode/
post #163 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I thought you only had to worry about input lag if you are a gamer. Apparently not so.

It's more of a concern for gaming because there is no work-around for gamers. You press a button and the action you performed shows up x number of ms later on your screen. That makes it impossible to play certain rhythm based games, perform complex jumps, etc. Then there's the whole multi-player aspect where your opponent will see everything many ms before you do.

For non-gamers, you just introduce the same delay into your audio until it matches up with the delay of the video. Problem solved.

On most sets you can also enable "game-mode" which will typically cut the video delay significantly at a loss in image quality. You could try that on your Samsung.
post #164 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I thought you only had to worry about input lag if you are a gamer. Apparently not so.
The problem is that so many people have taken to calling it "input lag" which it is not.

Input lag would be where the controller you are using has a high latency. (e.g. a bad wireless mouse)
What most people call "input lag" is really the time it takes for the display to process and display an image, so it affects all content.
It's normally only an issue either when gaming, or using external audio devices that don't support automatic lip-sync correction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Less Input Lag = worse image
Not necessarily. Sometimes there are image processing circuits that you would not normally be using, e.g. noise reduction, motion interpolation, image sharpening etc and when you simply turn them "off" they are not taken out of the loop and still add latency. Putting the set into a game mode can disable this processing, removing the latency they add without having any other effect on image quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

When you own a FALD Local Dimming will be disabled in Game Mode. And it does not stop there; Color Processing, Noise Reduction, Advanced Scalling.
Maybe on some sets - mine still does local dimming and has just as accurate color in game mode as it does in film mode.

When I enable game mode:
  • Motionflow interpolation is disabled.
  • Chroma resolution increases to 4:4:4 rather than 4:2:2 (presumably Motionflow runs in 4:2:2)
  • Local dimming strength is reduced (zones no longer turn completely off) and the dimming is no longer synced to the panel - it's one frame behind. (in most cases this is completely imperceptible)
  • Latency drops from about 120ms to 30ms.

Unlike many of the displays I've seen where most of your calibration controls are also disabled, you still have just as accurate an image in game mode as film mode.
When you use 3D though (I never do) the panel clearly stops operating in 10-bit mode and gradation looks quite bad.
It's possible that scaling and deinterlacing quality are affected in game mode, but I only ever send it 1080p anyway.
post #165 of 438
We connected my son's fat PS3 to the OLED and we couldn't detect any A/V sync issues with the set in Movie mode. Then we switched to Game mode and the result was the same. In fact, we can't tell a difference in response time in either mode. In Game mode, however, brightness and sharpness is set much higher, and the Color Space defaults to Native.

I guess Game mode is needed if you have your console connected to a receiver.



Edited by Pres2play - 11/16/13 at 6:02pm
post #166 of 438
post #167 of 438
post #168 of 438
post #169 of 438
post #170 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

It's more of a concern for gaming because there is no work-around for gamers. You press a button and the action you performed shows up x number of ms later on your screen. That makes it impossible to play certain rhythm based games, perform complex jumps, etc. Then there's the whole multi-player aspect where your opponent will see everything many ms before you do.

For non-gamers, you just introduce the same delay into your audio until it matches up with the delay of the video. Problem solved.

On most sets you can also enable "game-mode" which will typically cut the video delay significantly at a loss in image quality. You could try that on your Samsung.

Wizziwig, thank you for sharing that info. I've never noticed input lag like this before, where I actually needed to use the A/V Sync control on my player. I don't recall ever needing it before on any of my systems. Are Smart TVs with web browsers and Motion Interpolation processing advancements becoming too much for our audio systems? I mean the A/V Sync range on my Oppo BDP-105 is nearly maxed out eek.gif Could you imagine if I had to return the Samsung because of input lag?

I was surprised when the PS3 performed as well as it did on this set. I was expecting chaos, a terrible picture with stop and go action and horrible lip-sync. Instead, the picture is beautiful and smooth and responsive. I don't understand, and I feel crazy posting my results here, knowing the input lag is so bad.
Edited by Pres2play - 11/17/13 at 1:30am
post #171 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post



Less Input Lag = worse image


When you own a FALD Local Dimming will be disabled in Game Mode.

And it does not stop there; Color Processing, Noise Reduction, Advanced Scalling..

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57558145-221/what-is-game-mode/

The PS3 works surprisingly well in Movie mode. I tried Game mode, and found responsiveness about the same.

Also, the manual instructions call for disconnecting the game console and shutting off Game mode when gaming is finished. Too much work for me. I think I'll keep the PS3 on Movie mode. I'll see how it goes.
post #172 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


Unlike many of the displays I've seen where most of your calibration controls are also disabled, you still have just as accurate an image in game mode as film mode.
When you use 3D though (I never do) the panel clearly stops operating in 10-bit mode and gradation looks quite bad.
It's possible that scaling and deinterlacing quality are affected in game mode, but I only ever send it 1080p anyway.

This seems to be the case with the Samsung. PQ looks the same in Movie mode and Game mode. Fortunate for me, 3D is way too awesome for me to give up.
post #173 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Here's something, the video from my Oppo player is arriving late to the OLED, causing lip sync to be off with Bluray movies. I went to the Oppo 105 thread, and Bob Pariseau suggested I turn off all noise reduction features and processing in the Samsung that might be delaying the picture. I also turned off the internet/wifi operation, to make sure that wasn't the cause.

My Oppo is connected to the OLED via HDMI for video, and for audio I use the analog outputs. If I connect both audio and video from the Oppo to the TV, via HDMI, the problem is corrected.

To make up for the video delay while using the Oppo's analog outputs, I set the A/V Sync on the player to 160 ms, which is near max. I'll keep it there till I find the cause.

In the meantime, I've ordered the Disney Wow disc to dial in the correct setting for the A/V Sync.

Edit: confirmed with the Wow disc, the video is late, or the audio is too early, which ever way you want to look at it.

With the A/V Sync on the Oppo player set to 0, the rotating line on the test pattern beeps at the 166.6 milliseconds, which indicates the audio is too early. That's if I use the analog outputs (I'm not using my AVR right now and I haven't tested the digital audio output on the player, except when I turn off the power amps and use the internal speakers on the TV. With internal speakers, the audio and video are perfectly in sync)

Like I said, setting the A/V Sync to 160-170 milliseconds works for me with the analog outputs.


Iam a reader from sweden who can actually give you some input on this issue has I have had a lot of lipsync issues in my various setups.

As I understand it you are connecting the Oppo player straight into the Samsung Oled. The thing is that HDMI connected appliances communicate with each other. One of those crucial things that gets informed over the HDMI interface is lip-sync audio delay. The display tells the player how long its image processing time is taking, the player then automatically adjust for this value (delays the audio) over the HDMI interface. This was a feature introduced in like HDMI 1.2 and has been improved in in HDMI 1.4.

Sometimes, this communication is not properly negotiated due to incompatibility between HDMI devices. Different manufacturers are suppose to work perfectly with each other but some don't. Picture always work pretty much but lip-sync audio is of course a more hidden feature that can sometimes get screwed up.

The funny thing is that this skew-up in communication can sometimes generate really odd results. For example, my Philips TV cannot communicate properly with my Yamaha receiver. The audio delay is suppose to be 150ms but the yamaha always interprets the Philips TV HDMI information as 180ms lip-sync delay. The result is constant lipsync issues. By contrast, my Denon amp is always perfect with my Philips TV in terms of lip-sync.

Consequently, in your case I am betting that the Oppo player and Samsung OLED is not communicating properly over HDMI. Your Playstation 3 on the other hand is. The solution is to get a home cinema reciever that can properly communicate with your Samsung TV and your Oppo on the side of the chain. In my experience this works in a majority of cases but dont count on it. Ask to try a homecinema amplifier and evaluate it at home together with your setup. I have been amazed by the number of people suffering from this. In cases were the communication is not working, turning off image processing and things like that can help but It does not necessarily have to. For example, I was screwed with my Philips TV, the processing was always 150 ms no matter the amount of "image advancements".

You can ofcourse always set the delay manually. However, when I do this in my setup, I notice that this does not always fix my problem. Suddenly, switching a channel, and the lip-sync is abit off again. Hate it. Once you have a working HDMI lips sync communication set-up, I believe the system is constantly adapting the lip-sync to these small of hicc-ups, keeping the lips-sync in place despite changing channels or pausing a blu-ray player. With a manual audio delay setup, you miss that adaptiveness.



best regards,
Christian
post #174 of 438
Game mode on most tvs makes game response better on this it dont , reading hd tv test review its still so high in game mode the input lag isn easly noticed on games for us who game a lot. To bad been waiting for oled tvs for 2-3 years i cant use the lg or the samsung for gaming as all over 40 ms is sluggish frown.gif
post #175 of 438
Hopfully Samsung 2014 oled will have less lag cool.gif and 4k even
post #176 of 438
^^^ A flat version as well.........
post #177 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play 

The PS3 works surprisingly well in Movie mode. I tried Game mode, and found responsiveness about the same.

Also, the manual instructions call for disconnecting the game console and shutting off Game mode when gaming is finished. Too much work for me. I think I'll keep the PS3 on Movie mode. I'll see how it goes.
I own the PS3 Fat & Slim. The Fat makes more noise and your electricity bill will be higher at the end of the year.
Edited by 8mile13 - 11/17/13 at 8:15am
post #178 of 438
I installed a 500 gig drive on the fat PS3 last year and then about two months later the fan stopped working. Had that repaired at a shop and now the noise is worse than a DustBuster. Now we have the slim.

I'm thinking PS4 around Xmas time, and yes, it's gonna be hooked up to the OLED.
post #179 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ A flat version as well.........

And I would have no qualms about getting a flat one too, but would have to be 65 or 70" . OLED is simply amazing.
post #180 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

Iam a reader from sweden who can actually give you some input on this issue has I have had a lot of lipsync issues in my various setups.

As I understand it you are connecting the Oppo player straight into the Samsung Oled. The thing is that HDMI connected appliances communicate with each other. One of those crucial things that gets informed over the HDMI interface is lip-sync audio delay. The display tells the player how long its image processing time is taking, the player then automatically adjust for this value (delays the audio) over the HDMI interface. This was a feature introduced in like HDMI 1.2 and has been improved in in HDMI 1.4.

Sometimes, this communication is not properly negotiated due to incompatibility between HDMI devices. Different manufacturers are suppose to work perfectly with each other but some don't. Picture always work pretty much but lip-sync audio is of course a more hidden feature that can sometimes get screwed up.

The funny thing is that this skew-up in communication can sometimes generate really odd results. For example, my Philips TV cannot communicate properly with my Yamaha receiver. The audio delay is suppose to be 150ms but the yamaha always interprets the Philips TV HDMI information as 180ms lip-sync delay. The result is constant lipsync issues. By contrast, my Denon amp is always perfect with my Philips TV in terms of lip-sync.

Consequently, in your case I am betting that the Oppo player and Samsung OLED is not communicating properly over HDMI. Your Playstation 3 on the other hand is. The solution is to get a home cinema reciever that can properly communicate with your Samsung TV and your Oppo on the side of the chain. In my experience this works in a majority of cases but dont count on it. Ask to try a homecinema amplifier and evaluate it at home together with your setup. I have been amazed by the number of people suffering from this. In cases were the communication is not working, turning off image processing and things like that can help but It does not necessarily have to. For example, I was screwed with my Philips TV, the processing was always 150 ms no matter the amount of "image advancements".

You can ofcourse always set the delay manually. However, when I do this in my setup, I notice that this does not always fix my problem. Suddenly, switching a channel, and the lip-sync is abit off again. Hate it. Once you have a working HDMI lips sync communication set-up, I believe the system is constantly adapting the lip-sync to these small of hicc-ups, keeping the lips-sync in place despite changing channels or pausing a blu-ray player. With a manual audio delay setup, you miss that adaptiveness.



best regards,
Christian
Interesting observations, Bonzi. I agree and I see many of the things you point out happening in my case. I will get back to your reply later tonight... have to go out for a few hours.
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