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Panasonic to End Plasma Panel Production By April 2014 - Page 11

post #301 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

Well then Chise I don't know what your going to do then being almost all of your LED TV's are now Edge Lit. Full Array is on its way out due to cost saving measures by the manufacturers and Plasma is going to be done by 2014, from Panasonic that is. That being all said I don't know why Panasonic quitting Plasma is such a surprise to everyone. LCD/LED has been out selling Plasma for years and to me it was only a matter of time before Panasonic cut the cord and went in another direction. I saw it coming when I started seeing Panasonic start making LED TV's. And now that they are partnering up with Sony to start making OLED TV'S its gonna be interesting on how far they and Sony can take the OLED technology. I think OLED is gonna replace 4K as well.
OLED technology cannot replace 4K. Upcoming OLED TVs will be 4K UHDTVs.


So are you saying 4K will be pretty much the same as OLED? If that's the case then I'll pass because to me 4K is useless unless you have a big screen preferably a projection screen or an 84inch LED tv. But that's an altogether different discussion. But back to plasma. Like I said before the writing was on the wall for plasma for awhile and I aint the least surprised to see Panasonic leave it behind. Oh and btw OLED wont be JUST for 4K TV's.
post #302 of 392
He is saying OLED will incorporate 4K by default going forward.
post #303 of 392
I bought what will likely be my last plasma this year . I have not viewed a OLED set yet but have no objections to an affordable OLED that can equal or exceed the PQ of Plasma.
Unfortunately Plasma has not proven to be economically sustainable we can't expect publicly held companies to keep subsidizing the technology that's just the reality
of it .

Some of newer LED's aren't bad at all I bought one of those this year it's quite watchable but admittedly( between my two sets at least) the plasma has superior P.Q.

FWIHR it could be when OLED gets mainstream and affordable it might be something to look forward too .

It's all about costs of goods and resale , economy of scale and manufacturing processes as those issues shake out there will likely at some time be affordable OLED or at least nearly equivalent to Plasma black levels and PQ from mainstream LED . Just my 2 ¢ .
Edited by tubetwister - 11/3/13 at 9:04pm
post #304 of 392
The two big screen OLEDs currently on the market already beat the black levels of the best plasma...agree with the rest of your post, though. It's just an unknown quantity as to if any Japanese TV divisions will be standing once the smoke clears.
post #305 of 392
I suspect OLED may not be capable of 4K for a long time, though the idea of sub-50" panels with better-than-Plasma PQ in small sizes doesn't bother me either.
post #306 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I suspect OLED may not be capable of 4K for a long time, though the idea of sub-50" panels with better-than-Plasma PQ in small sizes doesn't bother me either.

Both LG and Samsung already built—and showed off—giant 4K OLED UHDTVs. Both were on display at the IFA show in Germany about two months ago. 

post #307 of 392
But it is 98 inches, and according to the AUO president, such sizes will be expensive for a long time. The AUO president will often say skeptical things about OLED, even though it is part of its business.

EDIT: The article is old, sorry about that.
post #308 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

He is saying OLED will incorporate 4K by default going forward.

Ok I got it. smile.gif
post #309 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

So are you saying 4K will be pretty much the same as OLED? If that's the case then I'll pass because to me 4K is useless unless you have a big screen preferably a projection screen or an 84inch LED tv. But that's an altogether different discussion. But back to plasma. Like I said before the writing was on the wall for plasma for awhile and I aint the least surprised to see Panasonic leave it behind.  Oh! and btw OLED won't be JUST for 4K TV's.

I could noticeably see a difference with 4k and the set I saw was under 70 inches. cool.gif

However I do agree that 4K resolution screens will shine Best with larger size screens. It's all going 4k now just a mater of time, my recommendation for anyone looking to replace their main display for a home movie theater experience would be to wait for an affordable 4K OLED. I'm currently holding off for an 80+ preferably larger 4k OLED.
post #310 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

So are you saying 4K will be pretty much the same as OLED? If that's the case then I'll pass because to me 4K is useless unless you have a big screen preferably a projection screen or an 84inch LED tv. But that's an altogether different discussion. But back to plasma. Like I said before the writing was on the wall for plasma for awhile and I aint the least surprised to see Panasonic leave it behind.  Oh! and btw OLED won't be JUST for 4K TV's.

I could noticeably see a difference with 4k and the set I saw was under 70 inches. cool.gif

However I do agree that 4K resolution screens will shine Best with larger size screens. It's all going 4k now just a mater of time, my recommendation for anyone looking to replace their main display for a home movie theater experience would be to wait for an affordable 4K OLED. I'm currently holding off for an 80+ preferably larger 4k OLED.

Same here. A 4k set playing 4k material is a noticeable improvement over 1080p. A 4k set playing 2k material, not as good as plasma, IMO.
post #311 of 392
The last year I had inside data on was 2010, but I remember either Panasonic or LG's rep saying to me that if you split them into LCD, LED, and plasma that plasma had the largets market share of the 3. Now granted thats about the time LED popularity exploded but it does paint a different picture.
post #312 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

The last year I had inside data on was 2010, but I remember either Panasonic or LG's rep saying to me that if you split them into LCD, LED, and plasma that plasma had the largets market share of the 3. Now granted thats about the time LED popularity exploded but it does paint a different picture.

That is a somewhat arbitrary distinction since all "LED" TVs are in fact LCD TVs. But it is true that for a brief time, CFL and LED-baclit LCD TVs were equally commonplace while plasma was still popular, and the market was essentially divided into three categories. Plasma lost out to LCD (in terms of market share) considerably earlier than 2010. By the end of 2006, LCD sales already beat plasma sales.


Edited by imagic - 11/5/13 at 6:01am
post #313 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I suspect OLED may not be capable of 4K for a long time, though the idea of sub-50" panels with better-than-Plasma PQ in small sizes doesn't bother me either.

I was at Abt's customer appreciation day this past Sunday and an LG rep said their 79" 4k OLED will be out next year. He also mentioned a 77" 4k LED. Back to Abt, they draw a house full on their customer appreciation events. Parking lots were full and store jammed with customers but they have such a large staff that help was every where. I told my wife that BB wished they could draw that many people over a weekend. Going to Abt is an event for my wife and I.
post #314 of 392
Manufacturers and their marketing people do not see LED and LCD as the same technology. I understand (as does most everyone on this forum) that the screens are the same and that the lighting is the difference. But thats not how we were taught to sell them and thats not the way the manufacturers position(ed) them.

I hope I still have the power point slides from the show I was at. Perhaps it was only data from one manufactuer (which would make a lot of sense if it was the Panasonic rep) but thats not how I remembered it being presented. They were speaking about ways to counter plasma objections and gave us this "its still the best selling technology when you compare all three" talking point.
post #315 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Manufacturers and their marketing people do not see LED and LCD as the same technology. I understand (as does most everyone on this forum) that the screens are the same and that the lighting is the difference. But thats not how we were taught to sell them and thats not the way the manufacturers position(ed) them.

I hope I still have the power point slides from the show I was at. Perhaps it was only data from one manufactuer (which would make a lot of sense if it was the Panasonic rep) but thats not how I remembered it being presented. They were speaking about ways to counter plasma objections and gave us this "its still the best selling technology when you compare all three" talking point.

At this point just about all LCD TVs use LED backlighting, so it is more accurate to simply call them LCD panels. The more important distinction is whether the LCD is IPS or VA. The window where plasma market share was a valid talking point was very narrow, and it obviously slammed shut some time ago.

I can't deny that on the marketing side of things, the term LED is used to identify the current crop of LCD TVs. Marketing is a funny thing, like when you buy a CFL or LED light bulb that is rated at 60 Watts of brightness despite the fact that the bulbs don't consume that much power. It is just assumed that people can only relate to incandescent bulb wattage, instead of lumens.

 

post #316 of 392
Just quick note may not be in right place, so forgive me please.I have been doing so much research the last 2 months or more on plasma, led lcd my dreams are full of tvs. I've finally decided to get off the fence and go for the Panasonic 60st60. Mid December to be my purchase time.Very excited about new experience with plasma..My concern being will there be any available in December since the production will cease in December? Having images of these plasmas quickly disappearing off store shelves.. I believe the Panasonic would be my only choice in plasma..Thank you for your time.
post #317 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvingite View Post

Just quick note may not be in right place, so forgive me please.I have been doing so much research the last 2 months or more on plasma, led lcd my dreams are full of tvs. I've finally decided to get off the fence and go for the Panasonic 60st60. Mid December to be my purchase time.Very excited about new experience with plasma..My concern being will there be any available in December since the production will cease in December? Having images of these plasmas quickly disappearing off store shelves.. I believe the Panasonic would be my only choice in plasma..Thank you for your time.

I don't think anyone can definitively answer that question for you. Take a look at Katzmaier's article on that topic: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57610230-221/tv-shoppers-now-is-the-time-to-buy-a-panasonic-plasma/

post #318 of 392
I can't wait until next, next, next Black Friday...8K UltraOLED.

Hoping a new ZT60 holds me over until then smile.gif
post #319 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

I can't wait until next, next, next Black Friday...8K UltraOLED.

Hoping a new ZT60 holds me over until then smile.gif
Three "nexts" is way too soon for what you want. wink.gif
post #320 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

I can't wait until next, next, next Black Friday...8K UltraOLED.

Hoping a new ZT60 holds me over until then smile.gif
Well you be keeping the zt-60 for long time,like ten years.
post #321 of 392
There´s still a lack of 4k media on the market and the Entertainment industries won´t fill the gap that quick. Still some steps to go IMO. I Guess digital streaming will overcome physical media soon on that matter... Owners of 1080p plasmas will have much to enjoy with their displays yet for at least a couple of years to come...

4K must indeed overcome as a solution for TV manufactures income, as 3d has reached its edge, and they should find a reason why you should buy a new TV set. Still, I feel there´s also lot of marketing hype on the resolution.
Edited by csan - 11/14/13 at 5:13pm
post #322 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by csan View Post

There´s still a lack of 4k media on the market and the Entertainment industries won´t fill the gap that quick.
If indeed they fill the gap at all. Look at what happened to the high-res audio market. The big players were so concerned with piracy and competitor lockout they ran it into oblivion.
post #323 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwig View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by csan View Post

There´s still a lack of 4k media on the market and the Entertainment industries won´t fill the gap that quick.
If indeed they fill the gap at all. Look at what happened to the high-res audio market. The big players were so concerned with piracy and competitor lockout they ran it into oblivion.

That doesn't quite do justice to what happened with music—there is no way that file sharing would have become the phenomenon it was (at that time) if the files themselves were uncompressed high-resolution audio. Obviously the same music was available on CD and MP3, and people gravitated towards the music that was easiest to download and play back—MP3.

 

Now that the bandwidth exists to stream or download high-res audio, there are tons of brand-new streaming/server/DAC devices hitting the market. I expect hi-res to become the de-facto standard in just a few years—market trends support that conclusion, consumers are willing to spend more on good sound. Even if the main proof of that is the popularity of beats headphones, and all the head-shaking that fact provokes—the point is that people are willing to invest hundreds of dollars in order to upgrade their listening experience.

 

As for plasma TVs vs. UHD video—at 65" it's OK to stick with 1080p. I've seen enough demos and comparisons—most movies just don't have enough detail to take full advantage of HD, forget about UHD. True UHD footage looks great but it also begs for larger screen sizes than what plasma offers. For the moment, a 65" 1080p plasma offers the most compelling combination of affordability and image quality—enough to stay relevant for a few more years. What you will see is a trend where more and more movies achieve the kind of detail levels at 1080p that are currently rare in cinema—Star Wars Episode III comes to mind as an example. That's because the production of future movies and TV will all be in 4K/8K, but most productions won't achieve "perfect 4K" image quality, instead they will just barely exceed "perfect 2K" in quality.

 

The advantages of UHD (in terms of image quality) are numerous but elusive. The advantages of plasma (in terms of image quality) are obvious and apply to all content. 'Nuff said.
 

post #324 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwig View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by csan View Post

There´s still a lack of 4k media on the market and the Entertainment industries won´t fill the gap that quick.
If indeed they fill the gap at all. Look at what happened to the high-res audio market. The big players were so concerned with piracy and competitor lockout they ran it into oblivion.
That doesn't quite do justice to what happened with music—there is no way that file sharing would have become the phenomenon it was (at that time) if the files themselves were uncompressed high-resolution audio. Obviously the same music was available on CD and MP3, and people gravitated towards the music that was easiest to download and play back—MP3.
If that were so then why didn't the music labels push HD audio harder, rather than try to kill it? If they were concerned with download piracy, which is what they publicly claimed, pushing an audio format that couldn't be downloaded (at the time) would have been great for them. Now that bandwidth is both cheap and fast the same nervous nellies that killed HD audio would surely be aghast at the idea of an expansive downloadable HD audio market. And since the legit download sites won't reveal their sources, the only way you can tell if you aren't being defrauded by the labels e.g. getting an upconverted 16/44 rather than a real 24/{96,192} recording is to run a spectral analysis on the output. I don't see why the HD video market would be any different.
post #325 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwig View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwig View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by csan View Post

There´s still a lack of 4k media on the market and the Entertainment industries won´t fill the gap that quick.
If indeed they fill the gap at all. Look at what happened to the high-res audio market. The big players were so concerned with piracy and competitor lockout they ran it into oblivion.
That doesn't quite do justice to what happened with music—there is no way that file sharing would have become the phenomenon it was (at that time) if the files themselves were uncompressed high-resolution audio. Obviously the same music was available on CD and MP3, and people gravitated towards the music that was easiest to download and play back—MP3.
If that were so then why didn't the music labels push HD audio harder, rather than try to kill it? If they were concerned with download piracy, which is what they publicly claimed, pushing an audio format that couldn't be downloaded (at the time) would have been great for them. Now that bandwidth is both cheap and fast the same nervous nellies that killed HD audio would surely be aghast at the idea of an expansive downloadable HD audio market. And since the legit download sites won't reveal their sources, the only way you can tell if you aren't being defrauded by the labels e.g. getting an upconverted 16/44 rather than a real 24/{96,192} recording is to run a spectral analysis on the output. I don't see why the HD video market would be any different.

Because it turned out that most people prioritized portability and availability over quality. Back then portable devices did not have the storage to hold HD audio formats, in addition to the bandwidth issues. Now is the right time for a resurgence of HD audio, especially since HD video paved the way for 24/96 multi-channel audio support on just about every stereo system out there.

Sony recently held a press conference where it committed to spearheading a HD audio renaissance.. The company says it is all-in when it comes to online delivery of HD audio and the gear needed to play it back.

post #326 of 392
4k is the reason why Panasonic gave up on Plasma,look on flatpanel HD.
post #327 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

4k is the reason why Panasonic gave up on Plasma,look on flatpanel HD.

Chise, it may be one, but it´s not the only reason, I guess. Between others, that I may not be aware of, the successful "combined" marketing over LCD displays trhough the other major brands as Sony, Samsung, LG specially on smaller panels also forced Panasonic on a turn around towards the LCD, as its financial results on this field were going (I do not know how it is today, though) from bad to worse year after year.

I remember buying my hd plasma tv set still in 2009 for half the price of the similar size lcd. Today prices are similar for the remaining units, at least here in Brazil where they made available this year only the 64 inch VT60 model.

Here, Panasonic is kind of (for me clearly) leaving this field, keeping some LCD/LED models, and losing market share to Samsung / Sony.

Regards,

Carlos
Edited by csan - 11/16/13 at 2:25pm
post #328 of 392
If the margins aren't big enough any more, meh....time to move on.
post #329 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Because it turned out that most people prioritized portability and availability over quality. Back then portable devices did not have the storage to hold HD audio formats, in addition to the bandwidth issues. Now is the right time for a resurgence of HD audio, especially since HD video paved the way for 24/96 multi-channel audio support on just about every stereo system out there.


Sony recently held a press conference where it committed to spearheading a HD audio renaissance.. The company says it is all-in when it comes to online delivery of HD audio and the gear needed to play it back.

All in with the PS4...
Now it makes sense (not playing CD's).
post #330 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

4k is the reason why Panasonic gave up on Plasma,look on flatpanel HD.

Nope the Plasma arena has been losing money for years now, it was only a matter of time. Even Samsung will be pulling out soon. cool.gif

It's not all bad news though, this means they can now focus their attention on better emerging technologies like OLED. wink.gif
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