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What is a Good Book on High End Audio? - Page 2

post #31 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

All right, it is nonsense then.
Finally! The rest of his book makes about as much sense.
post #32 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Finally! The rest of his book makes about as much sense.

I like its simplicity and relevance (to a consumer, not an engineer). I realize that it may not make a lot of sense to an audio connoisseur like you gentlemen. But I plan to finish it before moving on to the other two books. I hope you will help me with things I don't understand.

Here is another question.
Quote:
Tonal Balance
The first aspect of the musical presentation to listen for is the product’s overall tonal balance. How well balanced are the bass, midrange, and treble? If it sounds as though there is too much treble, we call the presentation bright. The impression of too little treble produces a dull or rolled-off sound. If the bass overwhelms the rest of the music, we say the presentation is heavy or weighty. If we hear too little bass, we call the presentation thin, lightweight, uptilted, or lean.

What is "warm" then? The complete opposite of "bright"?
post #33 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

But I plan to finish it before moving on to the other two books.
Don't waste another minute on that book. Try these reviews: http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-High-End-Audio/product-reviews/0978649311/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Either return it or sell it. You don't want to keep filling your head with BS, do you? If you do, you know what you will be called.
post #34 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania View Post

Don't waste another minute on that book. Try these reviews: http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-High-End-Audio/product-reviews/0978649311/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Either return it or sell it. You don't want to keep filling your head with BS, do you? If you do, you know what you will be called.

What will I be called? You can be blunt. I am not touchy. smile.gif
post #35 of 235
Quote:
I like its simplicity and relevance (to a consumer, not an engineer).
Of course it's simple. It's written by a simpleton. It's also written for simpletons—people who only want to be told what gear to buy, and don't realize how they have opened themselves to being hoodwinked. If you put any faith in that book, you are being hoodwinked. You might as well walk into an audio store, drop a wad of cash on the counter, and say, "Sell me anything you want."
Quote:
I realize that it may not make a lot of sense to an audio connoisseur like you gentlemen.
The problem isn't that it doesn't "makes sense." The problem is that it's WRONG. Through and through. It will only appeal to people who don't know any better.
Quote:
I hope you will help me with things I don't understand.
Why in the world would we "help you understand" things that are wrong?
post #36 of 235
Quote:
Either return it or sell it.
Better yet, recycle it. Then it won't confuse anybody else.
post #37 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Of course it's simple. It's written by a simpleton. It's also written for simpletons—people who only want to be told what gear to buy, and don't realize how they have opened themselves to being hoodwinked. If you put any faith in that book, you are being hoodwinked. You might as well walk into an audio store, drop a wad of cash on the counter, and say, "Sell me anything you want."
The problem isn't that it doesn't "makes sense." The problem is that it's WRONG. Through and through. It will only appeal to people who don't know any better.
Why in the world would we "help you understand" things that are wrong?

Mcnarus, you have a tendency to take perfectly simple and answerable questions, withhold the answer and instead provide an emotional and personal tirade. Again, the question was "is warm the complete opposite of bright"? Acceptable answers are:

1) Yes
2) No
3) Don't wanna waste my time with your questions.

All equally acceptable.
Which is it.?
post #38 of 235
Quote:
Which is it.?
4) The question makes no sense, because a vague term like "bright" cannot have a complete opposite.
post #39 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

What makes a good objective reading on high end audio gear and/or HT? Not talking about periodicals or marketing and advertisement, but rather unbiased detailed explanation of the basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Again, the question was "is warm the complete opposite of bright"?

It's not clear to me that you're even concerned about objectivity at all given the nature of your question. Amplifier designer Bruno Putzeys, when describing the audio press (and that definitely includes Harley), once said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys 
“Objectivity”got downgraded from “independent of who’s doing the observing” to “not favouring particular brands”.

Notions of "warm" and "bright" are observer-dependent and are thus not strictly objective in nature. That's one problem with the subjectivist audio press: they report observer-dependent phenomena yet imply that their observations are universal in nature (but will of course equivocate when pressed).
post #40 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post


It's not clear to me that you're even concerned about objectivity at all given the nature of your question. Amplifier designer Bruno Putzeys, when describing the audio press (and that definitely includes Harley), once said:
Notions of "warm" and "bright" are observer-dependent and are thus not strictly objective in nature. That's one problem with the subjectivist audio press: they report observer-dependent phenomena yet imply that their observations are universal in nature (but will of course equivocate when pressed).

Here is what Google found for me in under a second, exactly what I was looking for:
Quote:
In a nutshell...................

.....bright would mean an emphasis on the higher frequencies....warm would be the opposite, also referred to as "laid back"........& neutral, of course would be a good balance. You'll no doubt eventually hear the word "sibilant", which basically refers to an excessive "sssssss" in vocals.
post #41 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Here is what Google found for me in under a second, exactly what I was looking for:
Perhaps my question was too simple to answer?wink.gif
post #42 of 235
Yikes. This thread is hard to ignore!

Sanjay, I've lowered your rating to an 8. While you tried to explain how the second signal chose the second Y, you didn't explain how the first signal chose right or left at the Y. Pseudo B.S. is coming to mind in general about this topic.

I will say though in my car audio days, bi-amping made an audilble difference. In fact my HT Meridian speakers take the digital signal and manipulate it before going to the three built in amps. That's the full frequency over a single coax.

Picture a $25 speaker and tweaking the signal path as much as possible. It'll still sound like a $25 speaker. OTOH if you had $10k in electronics feeding $150k speakers, your tweaks with bi-amping and bi-wiring could be heard by the golden ears, maybe. That's who Harley sells magazines to.

Theory has it's place as a good basis for practical application. But it can be taken to extremes. Many times repeated as someone else's proof as anecdotal evidence.
post #43 of 235
Grig,
Who is Google?

My strong advice woud be to listen to MCNARUS.
post #44 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Perhaps my question was too simple to answer?wink.gif

I think you're actually looking for subjectivity. In that case, check out this glossary of terms.
post #45 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Here is what Google found for me in under a second, exactly what I was looking for:

I wouldn't agree with the statement you quoted. Neutral is neutral. It would indicate a flat frequency response in the audible range. Warm is not neutral. It indicates a cut in higher frequencies. I've always been fascinated by the high end audio terminology. If bright emphasizes high frequencies why wouldn't dark be used as the opposite. Why warm? Well, warm is cozy and cuts in high frequency are appealing to high end audiophiles for some reason. Dark is not as pleasant a word. If you want to use warm for the cut then use cool as the HF emphasis.
post #46 of 235
Does everyone know that all speaker reviewers were former wine reviewers? Where else could you develop such a useless vocabulary?
post #47 of 235
Quote:
Neutral is neutral.
Bingo. The trouble with discussing bright vs. warm is that a good audio system is neither. If you're using those terms, you're describing a poor system. (Or you're imagining things, which is what Harley's really doing.)
post #48 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Grig,
Who is Google?

My strong advice woud be to listen to MCNARUS.

Sorry, I should have posted the link

I can't imagine how can one fail at being a wine reviewer. Perhaps he swished and swallowed instead of swish and spit? After a few tastings everything will sound bright I suppose!
post #49 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Sanjay, I've lowered your rating to an 8. While you tried to explain how the second signal chose the second Y, you didn't explain how the first signal chose right or left at the Y. Pseudo B.S. is coming to mind in general about this topic.
I'm all too happy to have earned a downgrade from you, considering your interpretation of my posts.
post #50 of 235
Thread Starter 
Rating? Are we being rated? All i see is number of posts and Thumbs Up. What is this rating?
post #51 of 235
Rating?
Yes. Sanjay was lowered from an 8.1 to an 8.0. Maybe because I didn't get it. Actually if someone was in a room explaining something like this I would listen intently. But with my own technical background I would have my BS sniffer right up front. I'm a sucker for technical and theory discussions. But some of this is a stretch.

But no, I'm not really rating anyone. That would be getting way too serious, unless I tasted a little more wine.
post #52 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

you didn't explain how the first signal chose right or left at the Y.

In all honesty, when I read that I thought it was meant as a joke. You mean it's not a joke? It's fine if someone doesn't understand electronics or even basic electricity. It's okay not to know something. But to not even know what you don't know is a little scary. It's even more scary when they go on to "explain" it to others.
Quote:
in my car audio days, bi-amping made an audilble difference.

Absolutely. I have two large old-school JBL pro studio monitors that are bi-amped with a pair of Crown power amps totaling just over 1 KW. Bi-amping has many very real advantages.

--Ethan
post #53 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Bi-amping has many very real advantages.

--Ethan

But not biwiring?
post #54 of 235
Ethan. I would love to hear your take on bi-wiring.
post #55 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Rating?
Yes. Sanjay was lowered from an 8.1 to an 8.0. Maybe because I didn't get it. Actually if someone was in a room explaining something like this I would listen intently. But with my own technical background I would have my BS sniffer right up front. I'm a sucker for technical and theory discussions. But some of this is a stretch.

But no, I'm not really rating anyone. That would be getting way too serious, unless I tasted a little more wine.

Maybe he needed some emoticons to show the sarcasm? At least that's the way I took the signal "choosing" the appropriate wire on its own....
post #56 of 235
lovinthehd, maybe it's because you're in Silicon Valley and I'm ex SV that "choosing the wire" gave us pause. I know I've reread some of my old posts with regrets. Mostly from writing too fast.
post #57 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Rating? Are we being rated?
Only me. Not something you have to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Maybe because I didn't get it.
When I described an electrical signal actively making a "decision" and "choosing" one wire over another, you took it seriously. Which is why I'm perfectly fine being downgraded by someone who views those posts that way and not arguing with you in the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Maybe he needed some emoticons to show the sarcasm? At least that's the way I took the signal "choosing" the appropriate wire on its own....
If you didn't need emoticons to get my point....
post #58 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

lovinthehd, maybe it's because you're in Silicon Valley and I'm ex SV that "choosing the wire" gave us pause. I know I've reread some of my old posts with regrets. Mostly from writing too fast.

That's what heat and humidity will do to your brain. I'm not in SV, though. Many of the owners of SV live nearby, though those properties are way beyond my means.

One thing I don't get is that Vlad himself is in high tech to a degree, altho think its only at a software level. Wonder if he uses such glowing subjective terminology for the hardware his software runs on? wink.gif
post #59 of 235
you got a problem with my hat and humility?
post #60 of 235
LOL! Only if it's a tinfoil hat protecting you from excessive audiophile waves. wink.gif
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