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Ultra-D Glasses-Free 3D Update - Page 2

post #31 of 380
With production units you can go close. And with content in our format like gaming it is flawless
post #32 of 380
Hi joe I think you mean ultra-d not real d
Don't want to step on any announcements
But can say you can see some public demos soon
post #33 of 380
The news is exiting. I guess it will be several years before we can see a floor display at Best Buy.

I would love to get a 110" LCD. The reason I can't do a projector is there's too much ambient light. If I lived alone, I could control it, but my wife and kids always need a light on for something.
post #34 of 380
hi.joe i think you mean ultra-d
dont want to step on any announcements
but you can see public demos soon
post #35 of 380
hi kid there will be public demos very soon not few years!
and annoucements on price and availabilty soon
post #36 of 380
I guess this will be limited to shoddy edgelit LED panels?
post #37 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I guess this will be limited to shoddy edgelit LED panels?

Not the units I saw... 

 

"On another note, the actual UHD panels I saw looked very good, as far as standard picture quality parameters are concerned. They are based on Innolux 50" UHD panels (CMI V500DK1), which are full-array backlit LED-LCD UHDTVs, and the evenness of illumination was very impressive, almost plasma-like in its uniformity. Of course, black levels were not a match for current plasma TVs, but overall, I saw very good picture quality on the demo units. Just a couple days ago, I visited the TV-testing labs at Consumer Reports and CNET, and I did not see one single LED-edgelit LCD TV that had anything close to the screen uniformity of these panels."

post #38 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

All you say is true. The point is 100"+@4K panels replacing projectors would be obviously starting from high-end installations where tight corners should not be expected. This, plus the fact this is 4K technology which would be aiming for replacing 4K projectors makes it potential killer of HT projectors in longer term.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how the two could ever possibly be competing for the same installation. I think in most cases the choice to use a projector or flat screen would be an obvious one. I don't think many projector owners would be interested in a huge flatscreen. who knows what the future will hold, but there's a HUGE market for $1000-1500 projectors that can't be touched by flat screens currently. if you've ever used a projector, you'd understand there's a very different feel to them and that's something that many 'enthusiasts' will hold onto.

personally, I would much rather watch a 100" image on a good screen from a good projector than a 100" LCD. like I said, there's just a different feel to the reflected light off the screen that an LCD will never match and some ppl prefer that. and that's assuming it's a good LCD with a high quality dimming full array backlight.
post #39 of 380
Thanks, imagic. Even so, 3D is not preferable over the deep black levels I've come to demand, I'm afraid.
post #40 of 380
our black color is deep
post #41 of 380
If it measures above 0.001 fL, it's not deep to me. Plasma (or OLED or maybe even full-array backlight) or bust. wink.gif
post #42 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

So are you getting them from China Star like everyone else or do you have your own source? TCL had one for special order for an absurd $300K, but they should be around $40-$50K soon.

The latest price of the 110"@4K TV is stated to be about $65K . But one should take into account the 4K panel prices are tumbling down at an unheard-of speed. One can predict that soon there will be talk about price parity between the big 2K and 4K panels. Reason for this is that there is really no difference in making e.g. 84"@2K panels and 84"@4K panels. They can be made on the same manufacturing lines which are producing 42" panels. Same is with the 110"@4K, it is made on the 55" manufacturing lines. The price is thus not a big issue, major problem is to jump-start the complete 4K market chain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how the two could ever possibly be competing for the same installation. I think in most cases the choice to use a projector or flat screen would be an obvious one. I don't think many projector owners would be interested in a huge flatscreen. who knows what the future will hold, but there's a HUGE market for $1000-1500 projectors that can't be touched by flat screens currently. if you've ever used a projector, you'd understand there's a very different feel to them and that's something that many 'enthusiasts' will hold onto.
personally, I would much rather watch a 100" image on a good screen from a good projector than a 100" LCD. like I said, there's just a different feel to the reflected light off the screen that an LCD will never match and some ppl prefer that. and that's assuming it's a good LCD with a high quality dimming full array backlight.

Indeed the look and feel of a screen is different from panel. But many people with HT installations buy projectors simply from the reason panels are not big enough. As soon as the panel size approaches 100" this reason evaporates. Notice also that fair comparison should be with the high-end 4K projectors which cost good money. 110"@4K TVs coming early next year should have prices tumbling down one year from now and somewhat later the prices should be in the $$$$.$$ range. If, in parallel, the 4K content appears this will give a lot of screen-or-panel thinking to those who will be planning to upgrade or build HT in 4K.
post #43 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I don't know about you, but bringing my 64" through the front door, down the stairs and around a rather tight corner to make it into my theatre room was extremely tricky. getting a 70" would require a lot of help, unboxing the tv, and maybe even some minor de/reconstruction. getting something 100" or larger would cost me thousands of dollars to just get into the room. compare that to a projector/screen combo that I can bring home from the store in a compact car and carry into the room all by myself in one trip. there's advantages to going with projectors that can't be overcome. some disadvantages too.

for me, I simply could not get a 'projector sized' screen into my room. it wouldn't even be an option if it were available to buy cheaply.


as for the the og post and the ultra-d technology. it sounds very promising, and anything that can deliver 3D performance for those who want it, without sacrificing 2D picture quality sounds good to me. and that's exactly where my question would be, if you close one eye, does the picture look good? how does this compare to a good 2D picture on a standard tv?

According to Mathu this has all been solved haha. He must have a fold up OLED screen that weighs less than a projector + screen, uses less than 300 watts, 300" scope for less than $1000.

When that happens, I will gladly sell my projector.

edit: has anyone seen 90" + LCD's? They are NOT pretty. Bad reviews, pixelated, grainy, bad refresh rates fragile, 400+ lbs, energy hogs etc. Projectors beat them hands down still and for some time into the future. It's obvious Mathu is a salesman
post #44 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu rajan View Post

hi.joe i think you mean ultra-d
dont want to step on any announcements
but you can see public demos soon

Yeah sorry, thanks for the correction. Can you tell me if there will be an Australian distributor? Cheers.
post #45 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post


According to Mathu this has all been solved haha. He must have a fold up OLED screen that weighs less than a projector + screen, uses less than 300 watts, 300" scope for less than $1000.

When that happens, I will gladly sell my projector.

edit: has anyone seen 90" + LCD's? They are NOT pretty. Bad reviews, pixelated, grainy, bad refresh rates fragile, 400+ lbs, energy hogs etc. Projectors beat them hands down still and for some time into the future. It's obvious Mathu is a salesman

I wonder how many Lux one gets on a 300-inch screen with a sub 1000-dollar projector? I'd say one would be very lucky to even afford a 300-incher, seeing how the cost of buying and installing such a monster screen is not trivial, after all you will also need a 12-foot ceiling with a wall that runs a minimum of 25 feet, uninterrupted.:rolleyes:
 

Besides, 90+ inch 1080p HD LCDs are not relevant to this discussion, only UHD panels. Nor are cheap HD projectors an option. The least expensive 4K projector runs $15,000 at the moment, and will not work glasses-free.  Also, the Samsung S9 UHDTV is the best large flat panel TV I've seen this year, bar none. It is the exact opposite of your description. I'd love to see an Ultra-D version of that UHDTV.

 

This line of thought is all besides the point. Projectors are one great cinematic experience, and glasses-free 3D is another. Glasses-free 3D is not gonna happen with front projection, so if you want a large screen glasses-free 3D, LCD is the tech that's going to bring it home—at least until OLED drops in price.

 

As for "Mathu Rajan"—he founded the company, so I'm sure he's always in selling mode. 


Edited by imagic - 10/22/13 at 5:59am
post #46 of 380
Imagic. Very exciting news!

Couple of curiosities. Were the two sets in your picture with equal settings and everything other than the chip (which is what I thought I was reading)? why does one look so much brighter?

Also as to black levels. 3D is notorious for having terrible black levels, even on the plasmas - maybe more so even - did you think the 3d black levels on that set were comparable to the black levels of a plasma WHILE in 3D mode (apples to apples)?
post #47 of 380

110 inch screen would be awesome, but I think it will take a long time until the price drops to the limit I'm willing to spend on a TV. I now that some of you wont agree with me but I think that spending more than 2000 or 3000 € on a TV is to much. 

Mathu Rajan can we expect these TVs in Europe next year?

post #48 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I wonder how many Lux one gets on a 300-inch screen with a sub 1000-dollar projector? I'd say one would be very lucky to even afford a 300-incher, seeing how the cost of buying and installing such a monster screen is not trivial, after all you will also need a 12-foot ceiling with a wall that runs a minimum of 25 feet, uninterrupted.rolleyes.gif

 
Besides, 90+ inch 1080p HD LCDs are not relevant to this discussion, only UHD panels. Nor are cheap HD projectors an option. The least expensive 4K projector runs $15,000 at the moment, and will not work glasses-free.  Also, the Samsung S9 UHDTV is the best large flat panel TV I've seen this year, bar none. It is the exact opposite of your description. I'd love to see an Ultra-D version of that UHDTV.

This line of thought is all besides the point. Projectors are one great cinematic experience, and glasses-free 3D is another. Glasses-free 3D is not gonna happen with front projection, so if you want a large screen glasses-free 3D, LCD is the tech that's going to bring it home—at least until OLED drops in price.

As for "Mathu Rajan"—he founded the company, so I'm sure he's always in selling mode. 

Relax I was just responding to Mathu's BS statement that Projectors are obsolete because he negated all the benefits of them yet couldn't prove it. Two different animals. And the point was that projectors are capable of 300". Weather or not you have a wall is irrelevant. The lux rating is preference, not that you couldn't stack either. Also irrelevant. And show me a 100" LCD screen that has better picture than a projector? ps: I was quoted 9,999 for the 600ES.

Thanks
Edited by snyderkv - 10/24/13 at 1:04am
post #49 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEd View Post

imagic, You are a little wishy-washy. It's hard to get a handle on how you feel about this new process. Do you like it or not?

Just from reading this article, I get the impression that he likes the new process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Pretty cool, but I still feel scale is essential for suspension of disbelief (especially in 3D)... I don't even want to ask how much an autostereoscopic 120" panel will be 10 years from now, let alone 2 yrs from now!

I agree. Size is important for the immersion factor. I just watched my first 3D movie, moving from 96" screen up to 126" screen, and the enjoyment factor sky rocketed in my opinion! I sit approximately 11ft from my screen.

Anyway...regarding this tech and this article. Another awesome job Mark! I'm looking forward to seeing this in person at some point soon.

You do a fantastic job of putting your thoughts and impressions in writing...but you know the name of the game...until we see (or hear) something for ourselves, we will always default to what we know or have experienced. If you say it's great, I have no doubt it will blow us away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Unfortun ately the process is not compatible with front projection, although rear projection is a theoretical possibility. However, in a previous conversation on that topic, Leo was quite emphatic that the next challenge Stream TV Networks plans to tackle is hologram projection, which Leo said was the logical next step after autostereoscopic display.

I have no clue how far away projector-based glasses-free 3D is, or if it will ever be possible. I do know that Stream TV truly exceeded what I thought was possible when it comes to flat-panel glasses-free 3D.

I hope it's a possibility one day. Since moving to an acoustically transparent screen, I really enjoy having the center voices coming directly from behind the screen. It further adds to the sense of realism. Placement of a center channel under or above a TV can get close to the same effect, but it doesn't seem to be quite the same in my subjective opinion.
post #50 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post


Relax I was just responding to Mathu's BS statement that Projectors are obsolete because he negated all the benefits of them yet couldn't prove it. Two different animals. And the point was that projectors are capable of 300". Weather or not you have a wall is irrelevant. The lux rating is preference, not that you couldn't stack either. Also irrelevant. And show me a 100" LCD screen that has better picture than a projector? ps: I was quoted 9,999 for the 600ES.

Thanks

That claim that is akin to $199 AVRs that advertise 1000 watts of "total system power." It's a joke. The maximum usable image size from a single-chip DLP projector is (perhaps) 120-140 inches. By 200 inches, so much light output is lost that 2D looks terrible, forget about 3D.

 

I use a projector (Epson 8350) for 2D viewing, and a passive LCD (Vizio M550KD) for 3D. There are plenty of existing threads that cover the merits of flat panel TVs vs. projection. None of that is relevant when it comes to glasses-free 3D, since no projector has that capability.


Edited by imagic - 10/24/13 at 5:32am
post #51 of 380
The TVs will be available worldwide including europe
post #52 of 380
we have prototypes that are very large in size
post #53 of 380
All the tv's will be very affordably priced
post #54 of 380
once glasses free 3d in wide range of sizes and at great prices hits market not sure what role projectors have anymore
post #55 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

110 inch screen would be awesome, but I think it will take a long time until the price drops to the limit I'm willing to spend on a TV. I now that some of you wont agree with me but I think that spending more than 2000 or 3000 € on a TV is to much. 
Mathu Rajan can we expect these TVs in Europe next year?


the tvs will be availableworld wide including europ
post #56 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu rajan View Post

once glasses free 3d in wide range of sizes and at great prices hits market not sure what role projectors have anymore
Hmm...flat panels above 90" (hell, 80" also for the most part) are prohibitively priced already, not sure how glasses-free 3D will change this. There is also the specter of 4K, which will especially benefit projectors.
post #57 of 380
The tvs are glasses free 3d and 4ktv and in some cases lower than 2d prices. in larger sizes the price improvement is large
post #58 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu rajan View Post


the tvs will be availableworld wide including europ

Thanks for your answer mathu rajan. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathu rajan View Post

The tvs are glasses free 3d and 4ktv and in some cases lower than 2d prices. in larger sizes the price improvement is large

The truth is that I'm really curious about the 3D quality and the prices. It would be awesome to have a 110' inch 3D TV in my living room. 

post #59 of 380
well you can see a demo for yourself
post #60 of 380
soon
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