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Which is quieter, the F8500 or the ZT60 65"?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I have very very good hearing and some people have mentioned the noise of the fan although some people's hearing isn't good enough to notice it. I understand not everyone hears to the same degree so I'd really only need feedback from people who also listen to their TVs with the sound barely turned up. I have no idea how loud my TV can go but I currently set it for about 6-8 on a G4210 in the bedroom which I'm guessing is about 10%. I don't want to put in a bigger TV if the fan is too loud. I'm wondering if anyone here had both and returned one or the other because the fan was too loud.
post #2 of 20
Well, first, the F8500 uses passive cooling and thus is fanless. I can tell you that at low volumes, I can hear hear air whirring on a ZT60 from 10-11 feet out. I just had a hearing test recently, and while I do have hyperacusis, my perception is still very good.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, first, the F8500 uses passive cooling and thus is fanless. I can tell you that at low volumes, I can hear hear air whirring on a ZT60 from 10-11 feet out. I just had a hearing test recently, and while I do have hyperacusis, my perception is still very good.

Thanks. Good to know that the 8500 is fanless, that might be the decision maker for me.
post #4 of 20
the only problem with the f8500 is that it isn't constant. even with good hearing, evolution has trained us to 'tune out' background sounds, so a constant fan, or constant buzz is far less distracting and less noticeable than a changing one.

even thought the f8500 is quieter, the changing buzz(gets louder with bright scenes, also I have occasional 'popping' like a static shock sound) could be more of a bother. of course, this is assuming you're able to focus on something equivalent to hearing somebody whisper at a rock concert, haha. or you don't like listening to what you're watching wink.gif
post #5 of 20
All plasmas have variable buzz. wink.gif Yes, it's harder to notice with a constant whir, but there is a bit of poison-picking involved as well (should the air noise be diminished enough by the foam fix, then you might be able to hear this variable buzzing noise). It never ends.
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the only problem with the f8500 is that it isn't constant. even with good hearing, evolution has trained us to 'tune out' background sounds, so a constant fan, or constant buzz is far less distracting and less noticeable than a changing one.

even thought the f8500 is quieter, the changing buzz(gets louder with bright scenes, also I have occasional 'popping' like a static shock sound) could be more of a bother. of course, this is assuming you're able to focus on something equivalent to hearing somebody whisper at a rock concert, haha. or you don't like listening to what you're watching wink.gif

To a degree that is true but even though I build the quietest PCs of anyone I know, I still think I wish I could make it silent.
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

All plasmas have variable buzz. wink.gif Yes, it's harder to notice with a constant whir, but there is a bit of poison-picking involved as well (should the air noise be diminished enough by the foam fix, then you might be able to hear this variable buzzing noise). It never ends.

good point. and in fact, i usually have one of those air filters things going in my room, and it completely washes out any plasma buzz from my f8500.

you're totally right about picking your poison. i'll take the super quiet plasma buzz over washed out blacks from an LCD tongue.gif
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

To a degree that is true but even though I build the quietest PCs of anyone I know, I still think I wish I could make it silent.

you never tried a fanless design? my 'media box' in my room is fanless. the receiver is the loudest thing in there.

definitely sounds like you pay more attention to the sound than the average person too. neither is perfect if you hunt for problems unfortunately
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Try putting a 780GTX and a 3.4GHz 6 core processor, 8 4TB hard drives, a 1GB raid controller, a high end sound card and a 750watt power supply w/ 2 BR drives in a fanless solution smile.gif Even a high end water pump solution is louder than my design.
Edited by boe - 10/22/13 at 11:06am
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Try putting a 780GTX and a 3.4GHz 6 core processor, 8 4TB hard drives, a 1GB raid controller, a high end sound card and a 750watt power supply w/ 2 BR drives in a fanless solution smile.gif Even a high end water pump solution is louder than my design.

that's why i built a media box. i don't need to overpower it.

put the main rig in a different room, stream the media to a small fanless unit. again, it's about picking your poison. i'll give up the ability to render video quickly as long as i can nearly silently play 1080p video flawlessly.

may i ask why you opted for 4gb HDD's? i've been adding HDD's for years, and i'm doing 3TB's right now because the 4's are a huge jump in price. if you've got a source for good value 4TB's i'd be interested to hear it. I'm up to about 20TB's but it's spread over several ext HDD's
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
My oppo 103 streams 1080p flawlessly from my PC (via cat5, the wireless that comes with it is as useless as tits on bull) which is in a different room so I don't need a media PC at this point. My oppo 103 is pretty quiet. The reason I'm doing 4TB is so I don't have to buy a separate housing for my data yet as I only want so many drives and so much noise. Eventually I'll have to switch them for larger ones and use them for my backup. I usually just by from Amazon. I have them in RAID 5 for cheap redundancy but he speed with a high end LSI controller is very good. I'm not using that much space yet - about 12TB for TV shows and only a few TB for movies as I haven't started ripping 99% of my movies yet. I'm basically waiting for 10TB drives so I figure in about 5 years I'll finally convert thousands of BR and DVDs to my media server/PC.
Edited by boe - 10/22/13 at 2:17pm
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hello,

I have very very good hearing and some people have mentioned the noise of the fan although some people's hearing isn't good enough to notice it. I understand not everyone hears to the same degree so I'd really only need feedback from people who also listen to their TVs with the sound barely turned up. I have no idea how loud my TV can go but I currently set it for about 6-8 on a G4210 in the bedroom which I'm guessing is about 10%. I don't want to put in a bigger TV if the fan is too loud. I'm wondering if anyone here had both and returned one or the other because the fan was too loud.

I returned a Pansonic 65ZT60 over the fan noise issue, given the Samsung has no fans the only other unruly sound in general are the buzzer sets but that seems to hit the ZT crowd as much as the F8500 folks. I have no buzzing issues with the F8500 and sit about 10-11 feet from the screen, but it is dead silent until you get behind it and then you can hear a faint plasma buzz I have heard in all of the Plasma;s I have had, but like the others, only from behind the set and very close to it.

I would not accept any of this nonsense that this it is "normal" to have distracting sounds from your 3,000 - 5,000 dollar TV, there is nothing "normal" about it, I have had Plasma sets for many years and never had one that made fan or screen noises.
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

My oppo 103 streams 1080p flawlessly from my PC (via cat5, the wireless that comes with it is as useless as tits on bull) which is in a different room so I don't need a media PC at this point. My oppo 103 is pretty quiet. The reason I'm doing 4TB is so I don't have to buy a separate housing for my data yet as I only want so many drives and so much noise. Eventually I'll have to switch them for larger ones and use them for my backup. I usually just by from Amazon. I have them in RAID 5 for cheap redundancy but he speed with a high end LSI controller is very good. I'm not using that much space yet - about 12TB for TV shows and only a few TB for movies as I haven't started ripping 99% of my movies yet. I'm basically waiting for 10TB drives so I figure in about 5 years I'll finally convert thousands of BR and DVDs to my media server/PC.

I think we should start a new thread before I derail this poor guy's post any further. I apologize for rambling.

My HTPC is just hit 32TB spinning (on-line) and thought I would point out that there is no advantage in high performance in this storage unless you plan to copy the stuff around a lot, but recording 4 HD shows at once from my Ceton TV card, barely registers a blip on disk IO, and that is against 2TB and now 4TB SATA drives. I used a drive dock and keep a pile of the cheapest drives I can get for back-up drives. I run just one drive that anything can write to and it is dedicated to WTV and other media files, that drive I mirror to the Dock, and since I never write on one that has been filled, there is no additional back-up needed once it fills up.

Once full the current active drive is reassigned a new drive, letter, the docked drive is stashed off-site with the back-up and I add a new driver into the rotation and a new drive in the dock and the cycle continues. The upside is you never have to make a back-up again, and you can have all of your favorites available at once. I looked at various RAID approaches and all were way more expensive and did not buy anything over the approach I currently use. If you are going to span disks, JBOD is actually better than RAID 0 as you do not need a RAID controller and the overhead that comes with it.

Not only are the drives fast enough to record and play back more than any other part of your system could handle, but they are not bad for commercial editing, I use VideoReDo+ TV Suite and rips through an hour long HD program in about 10 minutes on the SATA and the same time on an SSD, so it is process bound and not IO bound.

Like you I have not ripped any of my movies, I have the Sony 400 DVD changer and they are loaded in to that and when and if I get enough Blu-Ray's I'll probably get the new Sony changer that handles Blu-Ray. I tried a lot of rippers and a very beefy PC and it is just too slow for me to bother. What I have been doing is looking for any movie in my disc collection to air on cable or even commercial TV, then I clean it up with VideoRe-Do and if just goes in the soft media collection.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post

My HTPC is just hit 32TB spinning (on-line) and thought I would point out that there is no advantage in high performance in this storage unless you plan to copy the stuff around a lot, but recording 4 HD shows at once from my Ceton TV card, barely registers a blip on disk IO, and that is against 2TB and now 4TB SATA drives. I used a drive dock and keep a pile of the cheapest drives I can get for back-up drives. I run just one drive that anything can write to and it is dedicated to WTV and other media files, that drive I mirror to the Dock, and since I never write on one that has been filled, there is no additional back-up needed once it fills up.

Once full the current active drive is reassigned a new drive, letter, the docked drive is stashed off-site with the back-up and I add a new driver into the rotation and a new drive in the dock and the cycle continues. The upside is you never have to make a back-up again, and you can have all of your favorites available at once. I looked at various RAID approaches and all were way more expensive and did not buy anything over the approach I currently use. If you are going to span disks, JBOD is actually better than RAID 0 as you do not need a RAID controller and the overhead that comes with it.

Not only are the drives fast enough to record and play back more than any other part of your system could handle, but they are not bad for commercial editing, I use VideoReDo+ TV Suite and rips through an hour long HD program in about 10 minutes on the SATA and the same time on an SSD, so it is process bound and not IO bound.

Like you I have not ripped any of my movies, I have the Sony 400 DVD changer and they are loaded in to that and when and if I get enough Blu-Ray's I'll probably get the new Sony changer that handles Blu-Ray. I tried a lot of rippers and a very beefy PC and it is just too slow for me to bother. What I have been doing is looking for any movie in my disc collection to air on cable or even commercial TV, then I clean it up with VideoRe-Do and if just goes in the soft media collection.

My storage is also for games, sql and virtual machines (workstations and servers) and other things so I like them to load fast. In addition it helps with backups when you have that much storage. I'm sure your system is adequate for your needs - just not mine.
Edited by boe - 10/22/13 at 6:21pm
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

My storage is also for games, sql and virtual machines (workstations and servers) and other things so I like them to load fast. In addition it helps with backups when you have that much storage. I'm sure your system is adequate for your needs - just not mine.

Ahhh, mine is pretty much dedicated to being an HTPC and I have this PC which is for everything else. The scheme can still work for your media and PC, why pay such a high premium for bulk storage, most disk array enclosures even let you mix it up, have RAID 5 where you need it, and individual drives and/or JBOD. Besides do you really want to pollute your RAID 5 enviornment with enormous media files?
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post

Ahhh, mine is pretty much dedicated to being an HTPC and I have this PC which is for everything else. The scheme can still work for your media and PC, why pay such a high premium for bulk storage, most disk array enclosures even let you mix it up, have RAID 5 where you need it, and individual drives and/or JBOD. Besides do you really want to pollute your RAID 5 enviornment with enormous media files?

Hardly a pollution as I need mass storage and it is more cost effective. I get faster than SSD performance with sufficient striping across this many fast disks - verified with a number of products such as crystal and atto. It really isn't a high premium, I pay about $170 per 4TB disk and with RAID 5 even if one fails, I don't have to restore anything. So $170 for a spare disk and all 7 others are being used to full capacity - seems like a no brainer. JBOD performance tends to suck and so backups would be slow and I like clean systems instead of ragtag slapped together junk. I paid less for my PC/Server/Media Server/Game machine than I did for my preamp so it seems like a great deal to me. I guess I just don't like ghetto equipment anywhere in my HT environment - just a matter of choice, I have friends with $100 sony BR players and they are happy with them, all that matters is that you are happy with your system. Since I use my PC for work, the entire system is tax deductible but I also get to use it for playing high end games like crisis, I can use it for SQL development, Email server failover and testing etc. Why would I want a second, noisy box that takes up more physical space and electricity when my computer is always on anyways just to have dedicated storage for my movies that is slower than my production box? My PC is a full mid tower design with bays for all of my drives.
Edited by boe - 10/22/13 at 8:41pm
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Try putting a 780GTX and a 3.4GHz 6 core processor, 8 4TB hard drives, a 1GB raid controller, a high end sound card and a 750watt power supply w/ 2 BR drives in a fanless solution smile.gif Even a high end water pump solution is louder than my design.

There is no way I could stand my HTPC in the same room as the TV, I keep mine in another room, actually right next to this one, makes it very handy, just added an IR Extender, the hard part was getting an HDMI cable and amp combo that could deal with the distance but not introduce a bunch of DHCP and general HDMI handshake issues, finally found one, gefen HDMI super booster, little expensive but all of the low priced ones were junk, the gefen has made it flawless at 50'. I also found you need at 24 guage wire in the HDMI cable, I tried 28 (standard) and 26 and both had trouble even with the booster.

In any event it lets you get the PC out of the TV room.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hardly a pollution as I need mass storage and it is more cost effective. I get faster than SSD performance with sufficient striping across this many fast disks - verified with a number of products such as crystal and atto. It really isn't a high premium, I pay about $170 per 4TB disk and with RAID 5 even if one fails, I don't have to restore anything. So $170 for a spare disk and all 7 others are being used to full capacity - seems like a no brainer. JBOD performance tends to suck and so backups would be slow and I like clean systems instead of ragtag slapped together junk. I paid less for my PC/Server/Media Server/Game machine than I did for my preamp so it seems like a great deal to me. I guess I just don't like ghetto equipment anywhere in my HT environment - just a matter of choice, I have friends with $100 sony BR players and they are happy with them, all that matters is that you are happy with your system. Since I use my PC for work, the entire system is tax deductible but I also get to use it for playing high end games like crisis, I can use it for SQL development, Email server failover and testing etc. Why would I want a second, noisy box that takes up more physical space and electricity when my computer is always on anyways just to have dedicated storage for my movies that is slower than my production box? My PC is a full mid tower design with bays for all of my drives.

Again if you want to pay premium costs for bulk storage that is certainly your option, there is just no advantage to using RAID 5 for movie storage unless you are serving it to 50 people. Why would you not mix your storage, I have 3 tiers of disk on this system, SSD / RAID 5 / Individual Drives (Bulk) and 2 flavors of SATA, slow and cheap I use for the back-ups of movies as I said, and fast SATA III for the raid drives.

For $170 that sounds like 5900 RPM drives, like the WD Green or Seagate Desktop class (Barracuda) type drives which are horrible for RAID 5 and most RAID 5 enclosures do not support them and when used are very unreliable, disconnects, it rebuilding itself all the time. For 60 bucks a drive more you can get enterprise editions, 7200 RPM and certified in for most raid enclosures. Beside SQL will love the faster rotational speed. If you are getting 7200 RPM drives for $170, please shoot me a link.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
The advantage is
1. if one of my drives fails I lose nothing, my system still runs
2. when I run backups, the backups are fast
3. The drives are in fact 7200 RPM drives with 64MB of cache. I get a reseller discount on much of my equipment from various vendors.
4. You'll find that most RAID disconnects and rebuilds are due to crappy onboard controllers - use a quality one like LSI 9265 and you won't have that issue.

I've been building servers for 20 years now so trust me, I'm quite familiar with SQL and optimization both from drives and temp dbs etc.

Again, I'm sure what you have makes you happy, but I can't figure out why you are trying to get me to rebuy equipment and build a crappy system when you have a dedicated POS system for movies and then also our using physical and power resources for another system - seems like mine is not only more cost effective but more efficient in space use and more versatile and faster.

But I digress - I'll get back to what this thread was about - which was the quieter system f8500 or VT60
Edited by boe - 10/22/13 at 9:18pm
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

The advantage is
1. if one of my drives fails I lose nothing, my system still runs
-- I have the exact same thing with different storage for the job at hand (tiered disk)

2. when I run backups, the backups are fast
-- If you put your large media files in a scheme you will never have to back-up, it is basically RAID-1 only without the RAID-1 complications when things go south.

3. The drives are in fact 7200 RPM drives with 64MB of cache. I get a reseller discount on much of my equipment from various vendors.
Hmmm, ok, sure.

4. You'll find that most RAID disconnects and rebuilds are due to crappy onboard controllers - use a quality one like LSI 9265 and you won't have that issue.
-- If you use cheap drives there is no controller that will help

I've been building servers for 20 years now so trust me, I'm quite familiar with SQL and optimization both from drives and temp dbs etc.

How would I have known that given you are using one-size-fits-all storage approach? I can see it if your role has been to build the database arrays, but there is alot more to the system.
Again, I'm sure what you have makes you happy, but I can't figure out why you are trying to get me to rebuy equipment and build a crappy system when you have a dedicated POS system for movies and then also our using physical and power resources for another system - seems like mine is not only more cost effective but more efficient in space use and more versatile and faster.

Wow, I have not tried to make you buy anything, just some suggestions to someone who claimed to have an HTPC that out-of-the-blue evolved into a SQL Server system for work and play that just happens to have AV features like every PC over 500 bucks on the market and is not what is generally considered a HTPC. Those of us with real HTPC's generally exchange ideas on storage as it is an ever growing issue.

Enjoy your very expensive storage choice.
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