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Another LTD02 Designed Sub Build - Page 2

post #31 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

[quote name="chalugadp" url="/t/1496365/another-ltd02-designed-sub-build#post_23876659"]For. the braces I simply.used a jigsaw to cut out squares. You could use a handsaw as well. Very easy since their not needed to be precise[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/26/u3ypemuj.jpg[/IMG][/quote]Thanks chaluga. looks manageable and I still have my friend's jigsaw. So, basically, I should make three of those cutouts and then add some smaller pieces between the squares (going front to back) or would the three squares be enough by themselves?
I added three pieces (left , right , top) between the braces. I have turned up the bass to crazy levels and box tight. Could probably get away with front to back bracing just between front baffle and first cutout , but doesn't take long to add.
post #32 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

To Chalugadp and/or Mhutchins,

Since you have already completed the first two Martysubs and I am about to build a Martysub variant, Can you please tell me:

1) what was your build sequence starting with the base panel?
2) Did you glue and/or brad nail?
3) In hindsight, what is the easiest way to attach the braces (after assembling all the sides and the base or while one side was open?)
4) Is there anything I should be aware of that would make this process more efficient.


Thanks

(2) I used brads and Titebond II for most seams. I usually unclamped once the brads were in place so I could move on to the next panel. Unclamping before the glue sets or dries may be heresy to a real woodwooker, but I don't know any better. Wipe the excess glue off with a damp rag before it begins to dry. Make as few precision cuts as possible. A precision cut means the cut surfaces will determine the distance between two panels or must match the distance between two panels (a 1/16" error will result in misalignment or a gap); avoid them when you can. Plan the build so that you can use a flush trim bit in a router to square up the edges (the photo shows a joint after trimming with a flush trim bit and then cut with a round-over bit).


(3 & 4) I placed almost all of my braces with both sides and the base in position with only the top panel removed. I placed two of the top braces in position to help stabilize the sides before I placed the rest of the bracing in place. I always do things the hard way, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about making a build process more efficient. tongue.gif

(1) Build Sequence

1. Glue* sides to bottom panel (for this discussion, the slot is on the bottom) use a large carpenter's square ot two to hold the panels perpendicular. The side panels sit atop the bottom panel (LTD's later design may differ hear, but this is how I did it).


2. Precision cut the slot panel for a good fit between the side panels. Cut the slot panel length to the desired port length. Perform whatever end treatment you desire for the internal port aperture.
3. Precision cut the slot braces to length, and height if needed. These should extend from the very front edge of the bottom panel to within 13/16" of the rear edge of the bottom panel.
4. Glue slot braces to bottom panel aligning the slot brace end with the bottom panel's forward edge (back end of slot braces shown, roundovers are optional. They braces were accidently cut shorter than desired...)


Now for the bracing: Decide what you want to use for braces. Windowed panels require precision cuts for all 4 edges. For that reason, I chose to avoid them. The 1x4 lumber at HD was all crooked, warped and full of knots, so I chose 1x12 white pine, which was higher quality, and ripped the boards lengthwise to make my own 1x4 boards. You could use MDF, but that would be heavier, and I believe it would not be as rigid. Plywood would work well, and offers excellent strength to weight, but is more expensive than the pine. I reasoned that I could make strong, light braces with simple pine boards. I decided to use simple lap joints for their good bond strength and I could avoid making any precision cuts for the bracing, which I felt would reduce errors and frustration.
Vertical braces went from the top of the slot panel to almost the top of the enclosure. Horizontal(cross) braces went across the top and the slot panel, but were just short of the sides. The braces overlapped in the corners and were glued and held in place with clamps and brads, then unclamped. For the top horizontal braces, I placed a straight edge across the top of the enclosure, then held the brace against the straightedge and secured the brace to the two mating vertical braces. This prevented the top braces from sitting too high or too low when it came time to attach the top panel. The lengthwise braces do require a precision cut to length, but a slight error here will not effect the outward appearance of the enclosure and will not impair the function of the brace. Only the sides and top require lengthwise braces.

5. Dry fit the slot panel in position (optional) and cut the cross braces to length. Mark their position on the top of the slot panel. This spacing will determine the spacing for all of the other braces, so choose wisely!
6. Remove the slot panel and glue the cross braces to the slot panel.
7. Mask and paint slot braces, slot panel and bottom panel after slot brace/bottom panel assembly glue has dried. Use the same paint you intend to use for the exterior (unless you want a contrasting color for the port) for at least the first foot or two into the slot. The masking is to keep the paint off of the glue bond surfaces of the slot braces and the corresponding position on the slot panel and sides. Once the enclosure is assembled, you will be hard pressed to paint the interior of the slot.


8. Glue slot braces (with the previously attached bottom panel) to the slot panel (with previously attached cross braces). Use PL along the slot panel edges if there are gaps between the side panels and the slot panel, same with the cross braces.
9. Cut the rear panel to size. Remember that the rear panel will be recessed 1/16" from the ends of the abutting 4 panels (top, bottom , left, right) so you can flush trim the edges to make a nice corner later. However, this means that the end panel requires precision cuts to match all 4 panels. For this reason, I used PL and brads for the edge seams and glue and brads for the bonds with the cross braces. If you are using Handy Panels, the height will be fine, and all you need to do is trim the width of the panel to fit between the two side panels.
10. Cut the hole or holes for the speaker connectors you plan to use before gluing in the rear panel. Consider the bracing pattern and how this will impact alignment of these holes. You don't want them right over a brace!


11. Now you need to make the braces for the rear of the enclosure. A simple cross arrangement can be used or more elaborate multiple braces can be assembled. Remember to allow for a slight recess of the rear panel.


12. Add the rest of the lengthwise braces to the sides and top if you have not done so already. These will need to be staggered so you can drive the brads through each end.
13. Cut the front panels to size. I recommend plywood for both if you plan to flush mount or recess the driver, because the panel with the recess will be very thin (5/16") underneath the recess and the MDF will distort easily. If not recessed, then the front speaker baffle can be MDF and the rear speaker baffle can be plywood. I believe plywood gives better purchase for the screws and is less likely to strip than MDF alone. Some people apply a third internal layer for additional screw purchase, but this does not seem necessary if you use plywood. Using a router, create the recess groove if you plan to recess the speaker, then cut through the panel for the speaker cut out. You will need a circle cutting jig to do this if you plan to recess the driver. If you front mount or rear mount the driver, the speaker cutout can be made with a jig saw, but a router and circle jig will result in a more professional appearance. A plunge router is desirable, but a plain router can be used with a little creativity. Some people use T-Nuts or Hurricane Nuts or some other form of threaded insert for securing the driver to the speaker baffle. There are pros and cons and you need to decide for yourself.


14. The front lengthwise braces determine the recess of the front baffle and support the baffle in addition to bracing the front of the enclosure. If your vertical and horizontal braces are square to the front edges, then these front braces will just be two lengths. One length that abuts to the vertical braces and one length that abuts against the horizontal braces. You could probably save some time and headaches by making these 1/16" short and using PL where they affix to the other braces, but that is your call. By cutting them short, you have a bit of leeway to adjust the baffle end of the brace to ensure that the baffle panel makes good contact with all of the front braces and none of them are too high or too low. Alternatively, you could use PL between the front baffle and the front braces. Be sure these braces do not extend beyond the speaker cutout or they may interfere with the woofer and prevent installation later.


15. Glue the front panels to each other and allow the glue to set at least 30 min.
16. Add PL to all of the front supports and the 3 sides which will bond to the front baffle assembly, clamp in position and secure with brads.
17. If you are going to paint the interior, now is the time to do that. If you decide to paint the inside of the top panel as well, be sure to mask off all of the bond areas for the braces before you paint.


18. Now is a good time to add any acoustic damping materials to the inside before you close out the enclosure. Although I added memory foam to most of the internal surfaces, this may have been unnecessary and may in fact decrease the functional internal volume somewhat. I plan to add a pillow or three to the inside of the enclosure to damp some of the internal reflections and port resonance. A few staples to the internal braces would secure the pillows in position and keep them from blocking the port or rubbing against the subwoofer.
19. Add PL to all of the upper braces, sides and both ends of the enclosure. With an assistant, lower the top panel into position. Adjust the top panel so all of its edges overhang slightly and secure with brads. Use weights, claps or both to compress the PL before shooting the brads in place.
20. Take a well deserved break!!
21. Add standoffs for the speaker grille if you intend to use a grille.
22. Flush trim all of the edges and begin the desired finishing process.




* Whenever I say glue, I mean Titebond II and Brads. Whenever I say PL, I mean Loctite ProLine 3X Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive and brads. Although the squeeze-out from Titebond should be cleaned up with a damp rag before it hardens, the squeeze-out from PL 3x should not be touched until it has dried for 6-12 hours. Then, use a sharp chisel or utility knife and cut the hard, but not fully cured, squeeze-out away from the joint. These steps will give you nice clean glue joints with a good appearance. All braces and panels receive glue or PL along all bonding surfaces as well as brads.


Mike

Edit 10-27-13: Links added for Titebond II and PL 3X, additional sequence added, photos added.
Edited by mhutchins - 10/26/13 at 11:28pm
post #33 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I added three pieces (left , right , top) between the braces. I have turned up the bass to crazy levels and box tight. Could probably get away with front to back bracing just between front baffle and first cutout , but doesn't take long to add.

OK that settles it. Tomorrow I am cutting me out some squares. I already have a bunch of 1 x 3 strips I can cut to length to fit between the squares. Thanks for the ideas.
post #34 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

I used brads and Titebond II for most seams. I usually unclamped once the brads were in place so I could move on to the next panel. Unclamping before the glue sets or dries may be heresy to a real woodwooker, but I don't know any better. Wipe the excess glue off with a damp rag before it begins to dry. Make as few precision cuts as possible. Plan the build so that you can use a flush trim bit in a router to square up the edges. A precision cut means the cut surfaces will determine the distance between two panels or must match the distance between two panels (a 1/16" error will result in misalignment or a gap); avoid them when you can.

Build Sequence
1. Glue* sides to bottom panel (for this discussion, the slot is on the bottom) use a large carpenter's square ot two to hold the panels perpendicular.
2. Precision cut the slot panel for a good fit between the side panels.
Precision cut the slot braces to length, and height if needed
Glue slot braces to slot panel aligning the slot brace end with the bottom panel's forward edge
3. Mask and paint slot braces, slot panel and bottom panel after assembly and glue has dried. Use the same paint you intend to use for the exterior for at least the first foot or two into the slot. The masking is to keep the paint off of the glue bond surfaces.
4. Glue slot braces, with the previously attached slot panel, to the bottom panel. Use PL along the slot panel edges if there are gaps between the side panels and the slot panel.



* Whenever I say glue, I mean Titebond II and Brads. Whenever I say PL, I mean Loctite ProLine 3X Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive and brads.


I'm falling asleep, I will edit this and add to the sequence tomorrow...

Mike

Wow, just noticed this post. You posted this just as I was making my last post. Nice flowing sequence. I think I will use this method since I just realized I don't have any extra paneling to cut into squares as suggested by Chalugadp. I can therefore save on the cost of purchasing three extra 2 x 4 panels to create those squares and I do have a lot of 1 x 3 strips that I can use as bracing. Looking forward to your additions to the sequence and especially how you did those braces.

thanks
Rick
post #35 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

I used brads and Titebond II for most seams. I usually unclamped once the brads were in place so I could move on to the next panel. Unclamping before the glue sets or dries may be heresy to a real woodwooker, but I don't know any better. Wipe the excess glue off with a damp rag before it begins to dry. Make as few precision cuts as possible. Plan the build so that you can use a flush trim bit in a router to square up the edges. A precision cut means the cut surfaces will determine the distance between two panels or must match the distance between two panels (a 1/16" error will result in misalignment or a gap); avoid them when you can.

Build Sequence
1. Glue* sides to bottom panel (for this discussion, the slot is on the bottom) use a large carpenter's square ot two to hold the panels perpendicular. The side panes sit atop the bottom panel (LTD's later design may differ hear, but this is how I did it).
2. Precision cut the slot panel for a good fit between the side panels.
3. Precision cut the slot braces to length, and height if needed
4. Glue slot braces to slot panel aligning the slot brace end with the bottom panel's forward edge

Now for the bracing: Decide what you want to use for braces. Windowed panels require precision cuts for all 4 edges. For that reason, I chose to avoid them. The 1x4 lumber at HD was all crooked, warped and full of knots, so I chose 1x12 white pine, which was higher quality, and ripped the boards lengthwise to make my own 1x4 boards. You could use MDF, but that would be heavier, and I believe it would not be as rigid. Plywood would work well, and offers excellent strength to weight, but is more expensive than the pine. I reasoned that I could make strong, light braces with simple pine boards. I decided to use simple lap joints for the bond strength and I could avoid making any precision cuts for the bracing, which I felt would reduce errors and frustration.
Vertical braces went from the top of the slot brace to almost the top of the enclosure. Horizontal(cross) braces went across the top and the slot panel, but were just short of the sides. The braces overlapped in the corners and were glued and held in place with clamps and brads, then unclamped. For the top horizontal braces, I placed a straight edge across the top of the enclosure, then held the brace against the straightedge and secured the brace to the two mating vertical braces. This prevented the top braces from sitting too high or too low when it came time to attach the top panel. The lengthwise braces do require a precision cut to length, but a slight error here will not effect the outward appearance of the enclosure and will not impair the function of the brace. Only the sides and top require lengthwise braces.

5. Dry fit the slot panel in position and cut the cross braces to length. Mark their position on the top of the slot panel. This spacing will determin the spacing for all of the other braces, so choose wisely!
6. Remove the slot panel and glue the cross braces to the slot panel.
7. Mask and paint slot braces, slot panel and bottom panel after assembly and glue has dried. Use the same paint you intend to use for the exterior for at least the first foot or two into the slot. The masking is to keep the paint off of the glue bond surfaces of the slot braces and the corresponding position on the bottom panel.. Once the enclosure is assembled, you will be hard pressed to paint the interior of the slot.
8. Glue slot braces, with the previously attached slot panel, to the bottom panel. Use PL along the slot panel edges if there are gaps between the side panels and the slot panel, same with the cross braces.

9. Cut the rear panel to size. Remember that the rear panel will be recessed slightly from the ends of the abutting 4 panels (top, bottom , left, right) so you can flush trim the edges to make a nice corner. However, this means that the end panel requires precision cuts to match all 4 panels. For this reason, I used PL and brads for the edge seams and glue and brads for the bonds with the cross braces. If you are using Handy Panels, the height will be fine, and all you need to do is trim the width of the panel to fit between the two side panels.
10. Cut the hole or holes for the speaker connectors you plan to use before gluing in the rear panel. Consider the bracing pattern and how this will impact alignment of these holes. You don't want them right over a brace!
11. Now you need to make the braces for the rear of the enclosure. A simple cross arrangement can be used or more elaborate multiple braces can be assembled. Remember to allow for a slight recess of the rear panel
12. The front lengthwise braces determine the recess of the front baffle and support the baffle in addition to bracing the front of the enclosure. If your vertical and horizontal braces are square to the front edges, then these front braces will just be two lengths. One length that abuts to the vertical braces and one length that abuts against the horizontal braces. You could probably save some time and headaches by making these 1/16" short and using PL where they affix to the other braces, but that is your call. By cutting them short, you have a bit of leeway to adjust the baffle end of the brace to ensure that the baffle panel makes good contact with all of the front braces and none of them are too high or too low. Alternatively, you could use PL between the front baffle and the front braces.




* Whenever I say glue, I mean Titebond II and Brads. Whenever I say PL, I mean Loctite ProLine 3X Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive and brads.

I'm falling asleep, I will edit this and add to the sequence tomorrow...

Mike

Just to be sure, is this the right one? http://www.homedepot.ca/product/polyurethane-construction-adhesive-300ml/947644

Oh, and thanks very much for the detailed build sequence. Mucho appreciated.

Regards,

Rick
post #36 of 240
i think they license it to different companies in different countries. the brand/look is different here in the u.s. maybe somebody else can confirm that's the one.

bump for assistance.
post #37 of 240
Thread Starter 
"Horizontal(cross) braces went across the top and the slot panel, but were just short of the sides."

mhutchins, your above comment suggest that the horizontal braces need to be just short of the sides. Can you you please comment on why it has to be so?
post #38 of 240
just easier that way, so that they don't have to be exact cuts.

if they are too short, doesn't matter.

if they are too long, they won't fit in the enclosure.
post #39 of 240
here is an example of braces that are cut too short. exaggerated to show the point.

they still brace the panels that they are designed to brace just fine and there is still enough overlap to glue them together just fine.

post #40 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

just easier that way, so that they don't have to be exact cuts.

if they are too short, doesn't matter.

if they are too long, they won't fit in the enclosure.

Interesting, always thought braces had to actually touch at least two (opposite) sides in order to be effective.

Thanks LTD
post #41 of 240
The bracing only prevents the box from diagonally moving . The braces could be half the length of the side and still do the job.. you could put 3 inch angle brackets and they would work also
post #42 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here is an example of braces that are cut too short. exaggerated to show the point.

they still brace the panels that they are designed to brace just fine and there is still enough overlap to glue them together just fine.

Thanks LTD for the great illustration! And to amplify further, the corners are already plenty strong and don't need bracing. It is the middle of the panels where most of the vibration will occur and where the highest stress occurs.

Now, back to the rest of the build sequence...

Mike
post #43 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

The bracing only prevents the box from diagonally moving . The braces could be half the length of the side and still do the job.. you could put 3 inch angle brackets and they would work also

Amazing! thanks guys.
post #44 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

The bracing only prevents the box from diagonally moving . The braces could be half the length of the side and still do the job.. you could put 3 inch angle brackets and they would work also

While this is part of the purpose for the bracing during construction, the primary purpose is to support the panels to prevent them from flexing during music playback. Any flex in the panels will create unwanted resonances which distort the resultant sound reproduction. 3" angle brackets will not adequately support the panels to prevent panel vibration and unwanted resonances. It has been suggested elsewhere in these forums that you want no more than a 12" square unsupported by bracing.

Mike
post #45 of 240
+1 We all see certain members go to extremes/over do things in one way or another with their builds and that’s totally ok. But for all intents and purposes the bracing being depicted works very well and keeps things simple to a degree. Still plenty of work though.
post #46 of 240
I have had a hard time on past builds getting the bracing cut properly, and not having it come up 1/16 too short or otherwise making it fit properly. I had a heck of a time with that on my Marty Sub. I am new to woodworking. I always have trouble with marking the correct line on a board, and even more trouble cutting the panels.....it's like....do I place the blade on the front of the line, on the rear of the line, or in the center of the line(?) LoL! I am sure that I will eventually get the hang of it! I need to pick up a flush trim bit and start cutting my panels a little larger.
post #47 of 240
"It has been suggested elsewhere in these forums that you want no more than a 12" square unsupported by bracing."

something like that is a reasonable rule of thumb. nice build instructions btw.
post #48 of 240
wow. those instructions just keep expanding...

i linked them up in the martysub post.
Edited by LTD02 - 10/27/13 at 6:35am
post #49 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I have had a hard time on past builds getting the bracing cut properly, and not having it come up 1/16 too short or otherwise making it fit properly. I had a heck of a time with that on my Marty Sub. I am new to woodworking. I always have trouble with marking the correct line on a board, and even more trouble cutting the panels.....it's like....do I place the blade on the front of the line, on the rear of the line, or in the center of the line(?) LoL! I am sure that I will eventually get the hang of it! I need to pick up a flush trim bit and start cutting my panels a little larger.

I guess I’m a cheater Marty. When doing bracing like that I purposely cut on the long side of the line and then use the table saw to shave to size so the brace can be tapped in place. That way it’s as tight as possible. When it comes to panels I never count on the wood being straight and true to begin with from HD or their cut. For that matter I never count on my own cut being exactly the same on a double panel all four sides. The trim bit makes things so much simpler and all flush in the end. We just can’t cut within those tolerances without a CNC. In the end it also makes the finish process easier and better in many circumstances. smooth-blend A master furniture builder would be using a hand chisel to get things right, I doubt he feels ashamed for doing so. Trim bit on I say wink.gif
post #50 of 240
Thread Starter 
The technical guidelines provided here are truly amazing and inspiring. I feel a bit more confident going forward and I intend to start construction within the next day or so. One thing I can't get my mind wrapped around:,,,,

When tapping the pieces of bracing into place, how would it be possible to apply glue to both ends, without the glue smearing all over the interior surface and not where it's intended to be?
post #51 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

The technical guidelines provided here are truly amazing and inspiring. I feel a bit more confident going forward and I intend to start construction within the next day or so. One thing I can't get my mind wrapped around:,,,, When tapping the pieces of bracing into place, how would it be possible to apply glue to both ends, without the glue smearing all over the interior surface and not where it's intended to be?

You could cut a piece slightly bigger , say 1/32 bigger and put it in there just beside where the brace goes. Then insert your glued piece and tap out the larger piece . The glue won't smear.
post #52 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

You could cut a piece slightly bigger , say 1/32 bigger and put it in there just beside where the brace goes. Then insert your glued piece and tap out the larger piece . The glue won't smear.

+1 Even when it does a little, a dry/damp rag works just fine. It keeps the bracing cops off your back anyway.
post #53 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

+1 Even when it does a little, a dry/damp rag works just fine. It keeps the bracing cops off your back anyway.


I like how you guys have nifty solutions for any problem
post #54 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I guess I’m a cheater Marty. When doing bracing like that I purposely cut on the long side of the line and then use the table saw to shave to size so the brace can be tapped in place. That way it’s as tight as possible. When it comes to panels I never count on the wood being straight and true to begin with from HD or their cut. For that matter I never count on my own cut being exactly the same on a double panel all four sides. The trim bit makes things so much simpler and all flush in the end. We just can’t cut within those tolerances without a CNC. In the end it also makes the finish process easier and better in many circumstances. smooth-blend A master furniture builder would be using a hand chisel to get things right, I doubt he feels ashamed for doing so. Trim bit on I say wink.gif

Seeing as a router and a trim bit could save a lot of aggravation, I am thinking of picking one up since I now have full blown DIY syndrome and, at the very least, I plan on building three more of LTDs Marty Sub variant as well as a couple more SEOS kits for surrounds. Speaking of Martysub variant, is this version similar enough (it's six inches taller but a foot less deep), that is should be be called a martysub, or is it different enough that it should have its own moniker? Also, what is a decent, good-value router?
post #55 of 240
Thread Starter 
I just did a dry fit of all the panels and everything seems to line up perfectly except I have to shave off a 16th on one slot brace. One thing that stands out is the size. It's simply massive. Here are some pictures---no glue, no staples just a couple of clamps. I should get around to gluing tomorrow.














post #56 of 240
Looks good. What are you lining the inside box with ?
post #57 of 240
WOW! that looks great! nice job ata cool.gif Short on time, so I'll be back latter.
post #58 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Looks good. What are you lining the inside box with ?

Hadn't given much thought about lining yet, but I think LTD mentioned something about using pillows. Not sure how pillows can be used though (cut them open and use the stuffing or just staple them to the interior of the cab). I believe you used some kind of memory foam, I take it you are satisfied with that?
post #59 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

WOW! that looks great! nice job ata cool.gif Short on time, so I'll be back latter.

Thanks Steve
post #60 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

[quote name="chalugadp" url="/t/1496365/another-ltd02-designed-sub-build/30#post_23881591"]Looks good. What are you lining the inside box with ?[/quote]Hadn't given much thought about lining yet, but I think LTD mentioned something about using pillows. Not sure how pillows can be used though (cut them open and use the stuffing or just staple them to the interior of the cab). I believe you used some kind of memory foam, I take it you are satisfied with that?

I used plain old foam from a bed topper (not memory) and it was easy to install. I don't hear any ratttles. I haven't played around with adding foam to see the difference . Just used spray adhesive to attach it . You should be rumbling sometime this week.tongue.gif
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