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Oddball inwall - Page 2

post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

After all the talk that about the JL drivers being overpriced, can't someone point out a better driver for the same money?
Weren't you going to buy 8 of them? If so, a pair of PA style 15's or 18's will work very well and you only have to purchase a pair.
If you're only using a pair of 8's for midbasses, that's not gonna put out much volume.
post #32 of 96
Thread Starter 
Sorry LTS02 & Looneybomber - you posted while I was writing my last post, so I didn't see your suggestions!

I hadn't considered using such large drivers for midbass, but I guess I need to check this avenue out too. Assuming that 8" or 9" is as big as a cone could be while delivering punchy midbass
might just be an incorrect assumption!
post #33 of 96
Thread Starter 
Whoa... the frequency response curves for these large pro speakers look pretty scary:eek:

It's true that processing can compensate for some driver weaknesses, but in car installations I've found that it's still very important to have good drivers. You can make good driver sound great, but it's hard to make a bad driver sound really good..

I'm sure that the mentioned 18sounds 12nmb420 would be a lot lounder than a 6WB at the same power level with that superhigh efficiency, but it has to sound good too!

For reference, this is what the frequency response looks like for a MW182, and the Utopia 6WB are far better of course!



Thanks for the input guys, but I'm not going to buy pro drivers with response curves that look like the alps...
post #34 of 96
You keep on referring to drivers that are more popular for "car audio" than home hifi. There are lots of better mid-range drivers, and I named three of them in a previous post, the Seas W18 or Scan Speak 22W or Accuton C90. Those are more suited for your intentions in using them in an in-wall home based setup. For mid-bass drivers, go with the JBL 2242's or 2226's as those will outperform the JL's by quite a bit, but you will probably have to purchase them used as the new ones are pretty expensive. You can routinely find 2226's for $175 to $200.
post #35 of 96
Thread Starter 
I'm afraid we have different views here

The JBL 2242 is a very expensive papercone subdriver, granted it has a much better frequency response curve than the pro speakers you mentioned before and looks quite good up until about 1 Khz.

New, it seems to cost about USD 1000, so two would be about USD 2000.

So comparing new to new , this is looking like a more expensive solution than the JL:s.

I must confess I'd rather have more, smaller drivers with faster response and flatter curves.

(I must also confess an unreasonable dislike of paper cones, I know objectively that it's often a very good choice)
post #36 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnw View Post

PCw/Jriver > DAC(s) > Amps

JRiver does decoding, including MA & TruHD. All xo's, delay, EQ, etc...outputs 16-24 digital channels to DAC(s) with no extra ADA conversion.

http://echoaudio.com/products/audiofire-12 can be daisy-chained if you want more channels. (Haven't used this DAC personally, but others have.)
+1

If using a computer as a source, there is no better solution. I also use HTPC > DACs > Amps. With my current system I have 10 channels of output available, but am only using 8.
post #37 of 96
Thread Starter 
Ah, I just ordered 8 MW182's. The main Dynaudio dealer in Sweden gave me an offer I just couldn' refuse...

Sorry Martycool007, I can see the merit in the single driver midbass per channel idea, but I just desire 8 MW182's a lot more than two big old JBL paper drivers. You'll see it woun't sound to shabby!
post #38 of 96
Thread Starter 
I compared the Seas W18 Nextel/paper driver (I wouldn't buy a magnesium driver) to the Focals.

The W18:s costs about USD270, so a little more than I paid for the 6wb's

They may be superior in actual listening to the Focals, but on paper they can't match the 6wb:
- Less linear
- Lower efficiency
- considerably worse off axis response (of course! they are not car speakers!) - important for inwall!

Also, I have Focals in two of the cars and one set of two-way hifi-speakers, so I know and like the sound.

(Hey, and basic psychology says that after already making the purchase, I'm bound to justify it to myself too...)

Actually on paper, the Focals look more like Scanspeak Illuminators 18WU/8741T00, but with higher efficiency.

And those drivers cost USD 420, so from that perspective USD 249 for the Focals doesn't seem so bad.
post #39 of 96
Thread Starter 
The Jriver route is starting to look promising, but I'm not completely clear on if it would work or not...

I have yet to find anyone describing a setup directly corresponding to mine, but here's a link to a pro installer doing a 7.1 setup with fronts and center channel "bi-amped",
which I hope means a partially active setup, with separate amplifications and no crossovers for mids/tweeters for the front channels.

I hope this means that jriver could do the same for 5 x surround 2 channels + 2 midbass + 1 sub channel + 3 channels for future use.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/home-theater-blog/2013/6/6/how-to-replace-your-home-theater-pre-pro-with-a-htpc

These guys are using a Lynx AES16e card with external DACs from DEQX (the HDP-4) and a Metric Halo (the LIO8).

It's actually worrying that they are using the HDP-4, because even thought the article speaks of of fronts + center being treated as six channels i Jriver,

it looks to me like the HDP-4 could actually be used to take three channels and convert them to six, performing the role of a digital crossover.

Why are they spending usd 5000 on the HDP-4 if this is not what they are doing....

The LIO8 is also really pricey at around usd 3000, so this solution employs about USD 10,000 of DSP-hardware for just a semi-active solution, making the Alpines look
dirt cheap for a fully active 16 channel setup....

A local music ship (4Sound) suggested I use An RME Fireface 800 + a Cheap Adac bridge from Behringer : ADA8000which together would cost about usd 1800.

I'm not completely sure why I should spend more than for an FCA1616 + ADA8000 if I'm still going to get half the channels from a Behringer DA, but I'm sure I will understand more in a while.

It's still a bit worrying though, that I've not really found anybody using jriver for a fully active HT setup. Why on earth are people going half-active if there isn't some problem preventing a full active setup?

Like the guys on the link above, spending incredible amounts of money for a partial two-way when they should have been able to have a completely kick-ass fully active setup if there isn't some strange complication somewhere...

Does anybody know someone who has actually used jriver for an active HT multichannel setup without crossovers??? I'd really like some confirmation that's possible!
post #40 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

The Jriver route is starting to look promising, but I'm not completely clear on if it would work or not...

I have yet to find anyone describing a setup directly corresponding to mine, but here's a link to a pro installer doing a 7.1 setup with fronts and center channel "bi-amped",
which I hope means a partially active setup, with separate amplifications and no crossovers for mids/tweeters for the front channels.

I hope this means that jriver could do the same for 5 x surround 2 channels + 2 midbass + 1 sub channel + 3 channels for future use.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/home-theater-blog/2013/6/6/how-to-replace-your-home-theater-pre-pro-with-a-htpc

These guys are using a Lynx AES16e card with external DACs from DEQX (the HDP-4) and a Metric Halo (the LIO8).

It's actually worrying that they are using the HDP-4, because even thought the article speaks of of fronts + center being treated as six channels i Jriver,

it looks to me like the HDP-4 could actually be used to take three channels and convert them to six, performing the role of a digital crossover.

Why are they spending usd 5000 on the HDP-4 if this is not what they are doing....

The LIO8 is also really pricey at around usd 3000, so this solution employs about USD 10,000 of DSP-hardware for just a semi-active solution, making the Alpines look
dirt cheap for a fully active 16 channel setup....

Nyall Mellor is the owner of Acoustic Frontiers and is an AVS member. He was setting using some stuff his company sells or uses for client installations and showing that JRiver can use different output devices depending on zone setup. He was using the DEQX for 2 channel and the Metric Halo for multi-channel.
Quote:
Does anybody know someone who has actually used jriver for an active HT multichannel setup without crossovers??? I'd really like some confirmation that's possible!
I believe Paul (PNW) that posted earlier uses active crossovers with JRiver. There are a bunch of people on the JRiver Interact forum that use active crossovers. I do it with just my subwoofers.

For 12 channels, the Echo Audiofire 12 is recommended. For 16 channels, the Lynx Aurora 16 is recommended. It can use either the Lynx AES16e or USB. You can also use the Lynx AES16e with two 8-channel DACS. This will cost about $2,100 and have the lowest latency. PM me for more info. I currently have my Lynx AES16e connected to an 8 channel DAC and a 2 channel DAC for 10 channels.

Here is a list of features for JRiver's DSP:
  • rerouting of channels with the option to copy, move, or add channel content
  • parametric equalization - unlimited frequencies and number of filters per channel (possibly limited by CPU capability)
  • high/low pass filters with adjustable slope (6, 12, 24, 36, 46 dB/octave)
  • high/low shelf filters with adjustable Q
  • Linkwitz transform circuit for DIY sealed subwoofers
  • level and delay adjustment for each channel
  • complete bass management with various crossover frequencies and high/low shelf filters
  • Infinite number of complete system presets with easy or automatic switching (I have a different setup for music, Blu-ray, DVD, TV, and concert Blu-rays with automatic switching based on content type.)
Quote:
It's still a bit worrying though, that I've not really found anybody using jriver for a fully active HT setup. Why on earth are people going half-active if there isn't some problem preventing a full active setup?
I already have passive crossovers in all my speakers. It takes more amps, cables, outputs to go fully active plus lots and lots of measurements.
post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

A local music ship (4Sound) suggested I use An RME Fireface 800 + a Cheap Adac bridge from Behringer : ADA8000which together would cost about usd 1800.

I'm not completely sure why I should spend more than for an FCA1616 + ADA8000 if I'm still going to get half the channels from a Behringer DA, but I'm sure I will understand more in a while.
I don't know either. If getting the FCA1616 I would just get two. Anytime you use ADAT to connect two devices you are limited to 48 kHz. You want the clocking to be identical if using two audio devices. I would recommend keeping an active speaker's channels all on one device. In other words, don't put the driver on one FCA1616 and the tweeter on another FCA1616.

Here are some more solutions:
Two AudioFire 12's (up to 192 kHz) for 24 channels - These will show up as one 24-channel device and cost a total of $1200.
Two Steinberg MR816's for up to 16 channels (up to 96 kHz) - These will show up as one 16 channel device and cost a total of $1400 (I own one. I like my UR824 better.)

Note: ADAT connection in these only supports 48 kHz
Two Steinberg UR824's connected via ADAT for 16 channels - $1,600 (I own one and love it)
Two Behringer FCA1616's connected via ADAT for 16 channels - $500
post #42 of 96
Yup. I use JR for 15 channels out...sub, bi-amped LCRs, and 8 surround channels (surrounds are 4-way passive). The DAC I settled on is a Lynx Aurora 16 via the AES16e PCIe card.

How many output channels do you need? JR does up to 32 with the purpose of each channel left to the end user. It is incredibly flexible. For just one example, 4 of my surrounds are "derived" from the other 4 by using different output level, time delay, and FR.
post #43 of 96
The more I look into this stuff, the more I realize how powerful this kind of solution is compared to standard consumer AVR and even processors. It really is -very- exiting. Its mostly all new to me so Id like to ask about the option with multiple USB audio interfaces:

If, for instance, i take two UR824s how will i then connect them. (1) Via two separate USB cables to the computer or (2) via one USB cable and then the second UR824 connected to the first via ADAT? If using two Interfaces is it then necessary to sync them via the word clock BNCs?

In the WIKI page on ADAT it is mentioned that it is possible to have 96k sample rate if you reduce the number of channels from 8 to 4 via something called SMUX. The UR824 have two ADAT in and out. Is it the possible to combine them into 8 additional channes at 96k?

"Higher sample rates can be used with a proportionately reduced number of channels, although the original ADAT machines did not support this. Known as SMUX, this connection allows 4 channels at a sample rate of 96kHz on one optical cable."
post #44 of 96
it would seem that a front end dvi switch that could feed into the computer would round out the capability, otherwise what do you do all the other sources that are not computer-based (xbox, cable, etc.)
post #45 of 96
"I don't know either. If getting the FCA1616 I would just get two."

how would that be connected to the computer? would jriver identify each properly and send the proper signal to each? if so, that seems like a monster solution.
post #46 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post

If, for instance, i take two UR824s how will i then connect them. (1) Via two separate USB cables to the computer or (2) via one USB cable and then the second UR824 connected to the first via ADAT? If using two Interfaces is it then necessary to sync them via the word clock BNCs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I don't know either. If getting the FCA1616 I would just get two."
how would that be connected to the computer? would jriver identify each properly and send the proper signal to each? if so, that seems like a monster solution.
The first device (UR824 or FCA1616) is connected via USB to the computer. It is the audio device and you have up to 16 channels available for the Behringer or 24 channels for the Steinberg. In this case, 8 of the channels will go out via analog and 8 will go out via ADAT digital to another device. ADAT carries the word clock info so no need to connect word clock BNC's. The first device will always be the master clock.
Quote:
In the WIKI page on ADAT it is mentioned that it is possible to have 96k sample rate if you reduce the number of channels from 8 to 4 via something called SMUX. The UR824 have two ADAT in and out. Is it the possible to combine them into 8 additional channes at 96k?

I just checked my UR824 manual and you can use ADAT out at up to 96 kHz with 4 channels on each output. So, two UR824's support up to 16 channels at 96 kHz. JRiver can resample at 64 bits anything higher than 96 kHz so it really isn't an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

it would seem that a front end dvi switch that could feed into the computer would round out the capability, otherwise what do you do all the other sources that are not computer-based (xbox, cable, etc.)
Hauppauge Colossus or similar. Most don't have any external sources. I do all my gaming with my HTPC.

The Colossus will allow JRiver to control a cable or satellite box and schedule all recordings. The HDHomeRun Prime supports CableCARD.

One other thing to point out is that you can route all computer source audio through JRiver such as Netflix or Hulu. You can also load JRiver as an ASIO driver for another program that supports ASIO. One issue with routing other sources through JRiver is latency. In order for lip sync to be close, you need extremely low latency. Both the Firewire and USB devices have much more latency than a PCIe soundcard or audio device. For this reason I usually use my Lynx AES16e card with AES output. The total card/DAC latency is less than 1 ms.

JRiver automatically corrects lip sync for all video sources that it plays directly. For example, I may use a convolution filter with over 1000 ms of latency and JRiver will delay the video to match exactly.
post #47 of 96
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all this useful information DESERTDOME!

It seems like if I build a fast computer, I should be able to get jriver to do everything, but it also seems to be a far from painless process to get this to work; the forums are full of people

struggling with sound card-drivers and plugins that collide with each other etc.

I've been checking out AES16e / Aurora combo - seems like really good stuff, but also quite expensive. The AES16e is USD699 and the Aurora 16 is USD 2695 + shipping, customs & VAT.

It would be nice to find some 16 channel DA without recording capability that could be hooked up via AES/EBU,
but I guess this stuff is mostly used by recording studios.

I found a used Aurora 16-HD in Sweden, but the guy wants SEK20,000, which is over USD 3000 for it.

I think I will look around for low latency solution for a bit less money - it seems tempting to just buy two FCA1616, but they are USB and I guess you mostly get what you pay for. Maybe I can listen to some of this stuff in a pro music shop and figure out if it sounds good enough for me.

I have an Audison bit ONE in my Porsche 997 GTS and I actually think it sounds very good, despite having worse numbers than for instance the PXA-H800, so maybe I will be OK with something slightly less expensive then the Aurora 16.
post #48 of 96
OP- although your choice in speaker components is not what I would consider if I had the money to burn, but I am fascinated by all of this computer/J-River talk, even though most of this is over my head!

Can you tell me, in laymens terms, What is the AES16e and what purpose does it serve in a computer based setup, using J-River as an active crossover? For that mater, what is a UR824 and what purpose does it serve? (Yes, I searched, but I am still unsure!)

It looks like J-River would be a much better option for an active crossover then something such as a MiniDsp or DBX24/96 due to all of the possible configuration options.
post #49 of 96
Also, lets say that someone has a trio of 3-way LCR's and that they want to go active using J-River software and some various amplifiers. What all would be needed to make that happen? I am sure that you would need 9 channels of DAC, but what else would be needed? A special sound card, or other hardware and/or software?
post #50 of 96
Thread Starter 
Martycool007 - Please understand that I have no experience of pro audio, I am just trying to figure out a good way to feed my HT-setup. But here's what I think I've found out so far:

Quality soundcards have moved out of the computer because the harsh and noisy environment, as well as for many convenience factors.

There are now a number of ways of hooking up soundcards, employing both general purpose interfaces like USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt or employing music and/or pro audio interfaces such as ADAP, AES, SPDIF, MADI etc.

These interfaces are all available in different versions and proprietary flavors, each saddled with their own specific limitations and advantages, for example maximum sample rates, number of channels etc

A common bugbear is latency, causing things to get out of sync, for example image and sound in a HT solution.

The premium solution discussed above for a 16-channel J-river setup is the AES16e PCIe card linked to an Aurora 16

The PCIe card in the computer provides 16 channels in and out at 192Khz/24bit over the AES/EBU interface and costs about USD 699

8 digital channels are carried in each of two 25-pin d-sub cables used for AES/EBU transmission to the Aurora 16 AD/DA/pre-amp. (Which could of course be used to hook up 2 8-channel units instead)

The Aurora 16 is a piece of high performance kit, containing pre-amps and AD/DA, mixing etc - it costs at least USD 2695.

AES/EBU is by no means the only way to hook an Aurora 16 to a computer: there are optional LT modules for firewire, USB, Prootools/HD, ADAT and soon thunderbolt too.

The main problem here seems to be that for my application, most of the money in the Aurora 16 goes towards stuff I won't use!

I'm looking for a low latency 16-channel solution, with most of the money going towards AD and not mixing of microphone amps etc.

Regarding the UR824: In this context, it's a 8-channel USB 2 soundcard, that can be extended by 16 channels via ADAT, 2 channels via S/PDIF or 8- channels via SMUX
Edited by tobcar - 11/3/13 at 1:01am
post #51 of 96
Thread Starter 
Desertdome (and anybody else who knows abot this stuff!):

What about the Solid State Logic Alpha-Link MX 4-16?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ALMX416/

I can buy this in a bundle with the Xtrreme 64 PCIe MADI-card for EUR 1499 in Sweden

http://www.thomann.de/se/ssl_alphalink_mx_416_xtreme_64.htm

I like the idea of spending more on DA and less on AD!

Can you guys please help me figuring out the pro's and con's of using this for a HT Jriver setup?
Edited by tobcar - 11/3/13 at 1:26am
post #52 of 96
Ok, so let me see if I got this right, the UR824 is a sound card. The Aurora 16 is a DAC. What is the PCIe and what is its purpose? From what I found via a search, and this may be way over-simplified, the PCIe is a way of expanding the connection ports?? What is the AES16e and what is its purpose?

The cost and complexity of this computer based setup seems to be a lot more work than setting up a conventional AVR or Pre/Pro. I know that you want to have active 3-way LCR's, but why not just go with a MiniDsp 10x10hd and a good pre/pro such as the Integra 80.3 or something similar?
post #53 of 96
Thread Starter 
Martycool007- It may be a good idea to read up on the basics of digital sound. DA means conversion from digital to analog, this is a function performed by DAC:s, sound cards and many other pieces of equipment.

There is no strict definition that I'm aware of what is a DAC, what is a soundcard, what is an audio interface etc. Different solutions use different building blocks to do the same thing in different ways.

I would normally not call the UR824 a sound card, it's a lot more than that, it was a way of simplifying things in the context of this discussion and clarifying the role a UR824 might fill if someone was to use it for what I am trying to do: Output frequency split sound to individual speaker elements in a filter-less Home Theater sound system.

PCI and PCIe are computer buses, used to plug in peripherals and expansion cards to PCs.

The AES16e is a PCIe card that creates a means to connect sound devices, like the Aurora 16 using the AES/EBU protocol, to a computer. You can think of AES as a 8-channels SPDIF-interface over balanced cable, usually using DB25-connectors that look like the computer end of old style parallell printer cables. The AES16e has two such slots for DB25 cables, that would connect to for example an Aurora 16 on the other end.

In this scenario, the Aurora 16 would perform AD (and DA for recording). The AES16e would not affect the sound in any way, just present an interface for drivers, for which for instance Jriver or studio software can access the Aurora 16 through.

I hope that makes things a little bit clearer?
post #54 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

Martycool007- It may be a good idea to read up on the basics of digital sound. DA means conversion from digital to analog, this is a function performed by DAC:s, sound cards and many other pieces of equipment.

There is no strict definition that I'm aware of what is a DAC, what is a soundcard, what is an audio interface etc. Different solutions use different building blocks to do the same thing in different ways.

I would normally not call the UR824 a sound card, it's a lot more than that, it was a way of simplifying things in the context of this discussion and clarifying the role a UR824 might fill if someone was to use it for what I am trying to do: Output frequency split sound to individual speaker elements in a filter-less Home Theater sound system.

PCI and PCIe are computer buses, used to plug in peripherals and expansion cards to PCs.

The AES16e is a PCIe card that creates a means to connect sound devices, like the Aurora 16 using the AES/EBU protocol, to a computer. You can think of AES as a 8-channels SPDIF-interface over balanced cable, usually using DB25-connectors that look like the computer end of old style parallell printer cables. The AES16e has two such slots for DB25 cables, that would connect to for example an Aurora 16 on the other end.

In this scenario, the Aurora 16 would perform AD (and DA for recording). The AES16e would not affect the sound in any way, just present an interface for drivers, for which for instance Jriver or studio software can access the Aurora 16 through.

I hope that makes things a little bit clearer?

I am fully aware of what a DAC or ADC is, I was just asking what the purpose of the other devices are, as I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to computer based audio stuff, but thanks for explaining.
post #55 of 96
Thread Starter 
Just ordered two Rotel 1565 5-channel amps for the mids and tweeters. I'm afraid they cost enough to make driver cost for mids and tweeters feel less relevant. Assigning a 1565 to drive 5 silkdomes feels a bit wasteful actually, but i know you can't skimp on amplification quality for tweeers. I should never want for tweeter power at least...
post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

Desertdome (and anybody else who knows abot this stuff!):

What about the Solid State Logic Alpha-Link MX 4-16?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ALMX416/

I can buy this in a bundle with the Xtrreme 64 PCIe MADI-card for EUR 1499 in Sweden

http://www.thomann.de/se/ssl_alphalink_mx_416_xtreme_64.htm

I like the idea of spending more on DA and less on AD!

Can you guys please help me figuring out the pro's and con's of using this for a HT Jriver setup?
I never thought of using a MADI card. That looks like it would work fine. It certainly has extremely low latency per this article.
post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Ok, so let me see if I got this right, the UR824 is a sound card. The Aurora 16 is a DAC. What is the PCIe and what is its purpose? From what I found via a search, and this may be way over-simplified, the PCIe is a way of expanding the connection ports?? What is the AES16e and what is its purpose?

The cost and complexity of this computer based setup seems to be a lot more work than setting up a conventional AVR or Pre/Pro. I know that you want to have active 3-way LCR's, but why not just go with a MiniDsp 10x10hd and a good pre/pro such as the Integra 80.3 or something similar?

The final method of conversion to analog is always done by DAC chips. These can be on the motherboard, internal soundcard, external audio device, or receiver. The UR824 and Aurora 16 are both external audio devices and both have A/D and D/A capability. The main difference is that the UR824 also has 8 microphone preamps.

There are many methods of transmitting digital data: AES, S/PDIF, ADAT, MADI, HDMI, Ethernet, Firewire, and USB. The external audio device or receiver will receive one or more of these formats. Some of the formats are native to motherboards/video cards such as Firewire, USB, Ethernet, S/PDIF and even HDMI. With these output formats, no additional hardware is necessary. With AES, ADAT, and MADI, you need a card in the computer to add support for these outputs. The AES16e is a PCIe card that adds support for a computer to output via AES.

I don't think you can use a MiniDsp for active crossovers and still playback video content without having lipsync issues. There is just too much latency or delay for the audio due to the processing. When using the the HTPC for all EQ, the video and audio always stay in sync.

You can easily use HTPC > receiver via HDMI > speakers and still use the HTPC for all processing. Basically the receiver is becomes the DAC and amplification all in one. Many people use this method. Some don't use a receiver because they want higher quality DACs, balanced output, separate high quality amplifiers, or need more channels. If you need 16 channels for active crossovers in a 5.1 or 7.1 system, you can't use a receiver since HDMI 1.4 only carries 8 channels. HDMI 2 can have 32 channels, but it will be up to the receivers to accept as many channels as outputs. Right now a receiver or pre/pro with 11.2 channels of output can still only accept 8 channels of input.
post #58 of 96
You are wrong with regards to not being able to use a typical 7.1 or 5.1 channel receiver in an active setup. You are also wrong with regards to not being able to use a MiniDsp as an active crossover.

If your receiver has 5.1 or 7.1 pre outs for connecting external amps, and you are using a MiniDsp 10x10hd to act as the active crossover for a pair of 3way active left & right speakers, then you are just fine. It's not like the original soundtracks to any movies or music are mixed or mastered with more than 8 or 9 channels of information, and they don't mix or master things to have a seperate channel for tweeters, or mids, or woofers.
post #59 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

You are wrong with regards to not being able to use a typical 7.1 or 5.1 channel receiver in an active setup. You are also wrong with regards to not being able to use a MiniDsp as an active crossover.

If your receiver has 5.1 or 7.1 pre outs for connecting external amps, and you are using a MiniDsp 10x10hd to act as the active crossover for a pair of 3way active left & right speakers, then you are just fine. It's not like the original soundtracks to any movies or music are mixed or mastered with more than 8 or 9 channels of information, and they don't mix or master things to have a seperate channel for tweeters, or mids, or woofers.

I think Desertdome is aware that if you accept some signal degradation, you can basically use any piece of equipment as part of any signal chain.

He is looking at solutions for multichannel audio that retains signal integrity (as am I) and his comments are coming from this perspective.
post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobcar View Post

I think Desertdome is aware that if you accept some signal degradation, you can basically use any piece of equipment as part of any signal chain.

He is looking at solutions for multichannel audio that retains signal integrity (as am I) and his comments are coming from this perspective.

Maybe I am missing something here, and admittedly, I don't have much experience with computer based audio or ht, but I would imagine that if keeping signal integrity is your main goal, then wouldn't you just use J-River for your signal processing, EQ, and active crossing over, then go from the PC to a nice 8 channel DAC, then to your amps, and last, the speakers?
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