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OLD vs New

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 

Here is my dilema.  I want to spend $1600 to $1800 on a new plasma.  I prefer Samsung as I would like to stay within the same brand for my tablet, phone, Blu-ray etc.

 

There is nothing between the 5500 series and the large jump to the 8500 series in price.

 

I was offered a PN63C8000 for $1700 from a co-worker who is upgrading to a HD Projector.

 

My question is, am I better to go with the top tier 3 yeard old TV, or to buy a 2013 5500 series.

post #2 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbeedie View Post

Here is my dilema.  I want to spend $1600 to $1800 on a new plasma.  I prefer Samsung as I would like to stay within the same brand for my tablet, phone, Blu-ray etc.

There is nothing between the 5500 series and the large jump to the 8500 series in price.

I was offered a PN63C8000 for $1700 from a co-worker who is upgrading to a HD Projector.

My question is, am I better to go with the top tier 3 yeard old TV, or to buy a 2013 5500 series.

maybe you should include Panasonic in your search.... specifically the TC-P60ST60 or TC-P65S60
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 

I have looked at these Panasonic models as well.  I have no problem with going that direction, other than every salesperson that I questioned was leaning in the direction of the Samsung, atleast in the 5500 versus the S series from Panasonic.  I have no real world experience with the Panasonic models.  Is the step-up to the ST worth the price difference.

post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbeedie View Post

I have looked at these Panasonic models as well.  I have no problem with going that direction, other than every salesperson that I questioned was leaning in the direction of the Samsung, atleast in the 5500 versus the S series from Panasonic.  I have no real world experience with the Panasonic models.  Is the step-up to the ST worth the price difference.

Regarding the S vs. ST, the ST offers somewhat better PQ quality (mainly because it's brighter and it's blacks are a bit darker thanks to a bit darker black filter), an AR filter to minimize reflections in a bright room, 3D, full smart features vs. the basic ones on the S series, more steps of gradation (so a bit less banding), 10-pt grayscale and 10-pt gamma controls, adjustable dejudder, third HDMI port, slightly better motion handling, 96 Hz mode for 1080/24p content like BD movies. I think that's basically everything the ST offers over the S.

FWIW, I got the 50" S60 since I didn't need the extra features and the PQ gap wasn't enough for me to spend $300-400 more. Since the biggest PQ difference is brightness, and with my current picture settings the S60 is more than bright enough for my dim to dark room, I don't feel I'm missing out.
post #5 of 35
post #6 of 35
The biggest advantage of the ST60 IMO is that it has double gradation steps vs. the S60 (the S60's Achilles heal, IMO).
post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

The biggest advantage of the ST60 IMO is that it has double gradation steps vs. the S60 (the S60's Achilles heal, IMO).

the CNET review only found a modest improvement in the ST over S in this respect, so it's possible the ST also suffers from banding (but to a slightly lesser extent, at least with high-quality BD material)

maybe some ST60 owners could chime in
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbeedie View Post

I have looked at these Panasonic models as well.  I have no problem with going that direction, other than every salesperson that I questioned was leaning in the direction of the Samsung, atleast in the 5500 versus the S series from Panasonic.  I have no real world experience with the Panasonic models.  Is the step-up to the ST worth the price difference.

that's probably because the panny's sell themselves...

but to your original question, absolutely buy new. this year's crop of plasma is far better than last year's, let alone 3yrs ago. the st60, vt60, zt60, f8500 would all have been the unchallenged 'best tv' of 2012 if that was when they are released. i don't have any personal experience with the 5500 but i've heard it's also made leaps forward compared to the d and e line. i happen to own a b530 plasma and can honestly say it's terrible. there's only a few lcds on the market today that have worse blacks and contrast.

if i were in your shoes though, i'd definitely make the st60 the tv to beat. but i don't even understand why your phone or tablet brand would have anything to do with a tv purchase tongue.gif
post #9 of 35
eh, that's a stretch. The st60 is not better than the vt50, for example. It would have a lot more reflections, if nothing else.
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

eh, that's a stretch. The st60 is not better than the vt50, for example. It would have a lot more reflections, if nothing else.

i think you're right about 'nothing else'. reflections are not an aspect of picture quality imo, they are a mistake of your room and placement. all tv's have problems if you shine lights on them. i'd consider that a difference in preference. do you prefer a brighter image of the st60, or a dimmer but less reflective screen? from what i've seen and read, the st60 gets every bit as black as the vt50, but it's brighter, and clearer.

i was set on picking up a vt50 on clearance late feb this year. it didn't take much viewing to see the st60 was clearly a better value. as far as straight picture quality went, the st60 was better than the vt50 in every comparison i did. the only advantages of the vt50 were extra calibration settings i would not need to take advantage of.

still, the fact that the st60 is even comparable to the vt50(which on clearance was still more expensive than a new st60) says a lot about how good this years plasma's really are. and based on that and other options from panasonic and samsung, i hold firm that i would not consider an old model over this years. not unless it's for casual use only, and significantly cheaper
post #11 of 35
Well, according to cent, st60 gets 9 in performance and the vt50 got a 10.
post #12 of 35
Hell no don't buy a three year old plasma for that price you can get the 64f5500 which is 1" bigger and improved over the previous years in quality and better 3D and smart TV apps.

To also add the ST60 has horrible input lag so forget about gaming on that set. It would have to be the S60 for input lag and I personally think the f5500 is better than the S60 overall and similar input lag that is very good.
post #13 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Well, according to cent, st60 gets 9 in performance and the vt50 got a 10.

well i know it won't matter for you, but i was basing my opinion on what i personally saw.

i'm wondering how the vt50 could be given a 10, and the vt60, zt60, and f8500 are 'only' given a 10. my assumption is that the scale has been adjusted?
post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

well i know it won't matter for you, but i was basing my opinion on what i personally saw.

i'm wondering how the vt50 could be given a 10, and the vt60, zt60, and f8500 are 'only' given a 10. my assumption is that the scale has been adjusted?

The 10 given the VT50 was in context of the 2012 sets, it was top dog then. If it was re-evaluated against the 2013 models the ranking might be lower.
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

eh, that's a stretch. The st60 is not better than the vt50, for example. It would have a lot more reflections, if nothing else.

They are pretty darn close, I own the ST60 had the VT50. ST60 does almost everything as well and some pictue aspects are better. So far the only area I would give a slight nod to the VT50 is in color accuracy. The ST60 has slightly superior contrast ratio and better video processing.
post #16 of 35
The 55" VT60 can be had for $1600 right now, I'd go with that.
post #17 of 35
Too bad Pannys destroy my head even more than other plasmas, or I would get that VT60 and sell both of my kuros. As far as my comparison claim, though, slight still makes my statement true. tongue.gif Also in stores I haven't been very impressed with the ST60, but it's always hard tot ell in stores. Also, another factor is more input lag on the ST60. And the guy changed his claim to picture quality.... That was not the statement I was responding to. the original claim was that any of the 2013 ones is BETTER than the 2012 lot, not "better in picture quality". So input lag and antireflective matters.

Also if cnet changes standards in their ratings, they go back and change past tvs too. D0nice said the kuro elites got 5 stars overall, yet if you look back at it now, it says 4 and 1/2. And also they don't rate only based against that year's models.
post #18 of 35
If you don't want to listen to someone that has owned both sets and had them both professionally calibrated then I don't know what to say, good luck with your decision
post #19 of 35
Guess you have trouble reading your own post. You said the VT50 still edges it out, which is all I ever said. So if you want to be rude for me agreeing with you, then whatever. If you even look back to my first post all I said was it is a "stretch" to call the ST60 better than ANY 2012 tv. I was right. You agreed. End of that. So now you're saying "almost as good" equals better than?
post #20 of 35
I never said that, I said the VT50 has a slight edge in color accuracy that's it

My post:

" So far the only area I would give a slight nod to the VT50 is in color accuracy."



Edge:

Contrast Ratio-ST60
Blacks-ST60
Video Processing-ST60
Sharpness-ST60
Color Accuracy-VT50
post #21 of 35
You didn't say any of that. You only listed what is better with the VT50, so I assumed the rest you considered ties. Either way, it's still your opinion which one is better. Someone else may say that color accuracy matters so much that the VT50 is the better set. Also you didn't mention reflections and I know the VT would have less reflections than the ST60, thus the ST is worse in light.

Also, you can't say by fact that black level or contrast are better with the ST, as CNET measures the black level as double on the ST60. SO if you find another site claiming it gets lower on the ST, that's not proof, as another site says the opposite. So looks like that's now at least 3 of those 5 going to the VT50. Add in input lag and reflectiveness and the VT then wins on 5 of 7 categories and I ahvent looked into the video processing ie sharpness claims.
Edited by somelogin - 10/31/13 at 9:44am
post #22 of 35
Reflections that is a wash, and your experience with the two sets is what again ? I have owned both

This is a forum where people express their opinions not sure what your point is there
post #23 of 35
yeah and my opinion is the VT50 would be better than the ST60. I highly doubt reflections are a wash when in the cnet review of the VT50 it said it got rid of reflections better than ANY tv ever, yet no claim similar to that is said in the ST review.
post #24 of 35
Fanboi fight! smile.gif
post #25 of 35
Fine you are entitled to your opinion but I have no agenda here, loved my VT50 love my ST60. The ZT has a better filter than the VT did last year, there is incremental improvement of almost every aspect from year to year not sure why that is so hard to undestand ? I think CNET has some good review but not everything they say is a golden nugget, again I have personal experience with both sets, don't really have anything else to say about it
post #26 of 35
yes, the ZT! But I am almost positive the ST of this year has a worse filter than the VT from last year. Also, I have no agenda, either. I just think if I were buying a size that came in both models I would buy a VT50 over an ST60, so my only point is saying the ST could beat all 2012s was a stretch, when presented as if it's set in stone fact. Plus "better" can mean different things Some may NEED a brighter picture than any panny will give, so then they aren't the best for those people. Also many still prefer the kuros over even the ZT, so it's no set in stone fact that an older tv can't be better than a newer one. in this thread's example, though, I'm sure all 2012 and 2013 pannys are better than the Sammy c7000 other than the Sammy may be more saturated (which could be good or bad).
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

yes, the ZT! But I am almost positive the ST of this year has a worse filter than the VT from last year. Also, I have no agenda, either. I just think if I were buying a size that came in both models I would buy a VT50 over an ST60, so my only point is saying the ST could beat all 2012s was a stretch, when presented as if it's set in stone fact. Plus "better" can mean different things Some may NEED a brighter picture than any panny will give, so then they aren't the best for those people. Also many still prefer the kuros over even the ZT, so it's no set in stone fact that an older tv can't be better than a newer one. in this thread's example, though, I'm sure all 2012 and 2013 pannys are better than the Sammy c7000 other than the Sammy may be more saturated (which could be good or bad).


Since you are mentioning CNet here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p65st60/4505-6482_7-35566956-2.html

From what they are saying in most categories, it is pretty much a dead heat between this year's ST60 VS the 2012 VT50.

Black Level: "Between the ST60 and VT50, it was a virtual tie"

BTW: This was a June 2013 update of a review originally from April of this year.


I think it's pretty amazing that their entry level 3D set comes in so close to last year's flagship model at a significantly reduced price.
I also have an ST60, and it can produce an excellent quality picture properly adjusted. If I had went to look at one in a store, I probably would have been disappointed too, as it is unlikely they did much more than mount it on the wall and plug it in.

While I don't also have a VT50, I do have a VT25, which was 2010's best rated TV, and I was impressed enough with its picture quality to buy an ST60 sight unseen.

Since you have mentioned in numerous threads here that Panny Plasmas "Kill your head" I am not sure why you would even want to discuss them.
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I never said that, I said the VT50 has a slight edge in color accuracy that's it

My post:

" So far the only area I would give a slight nod to the VT50 is in color accuracy."



Edge:

Contrast Ratio-ST60
Blacks-ST60
Video Processing-ST60
Sharpness-ST60
Color Accuracy-VT50

this was my feeling as well, except i'm not as sensitive to the colors i guess cause i called that one a wash.

all i know, is that in feb i basically walked into a store with cash in hand saying box up your biggest vt50 in stock, and shortly after i walked out waiting to see the vt60 and zt60 with the thought that an st60 was a better tv for less money anyway, so no need to rush. ironically i brought home an f8500 about a month later...
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

yes, the ZT! But I am almost positive the ST of this year has a worse filter than the VT from last year. Also, I have no agenda, either. I just think if I were buying a size that came in both models I would buy a VT50 over an ST60, so my only point is saying the ST could beat all 2012s was a stretch, when presented as if it's set in stone fact. Plus "better" can mean different things Some may NEED a brighter picture than any panny will give, so then they aren't the best for those people. Also many still prefer the kuros over even the ZT, so it's no set in stone fact that an older tv can't be better than a newer one. in this thread's example, though, I'm sure all 2012 and 2013 pannys are better than the Sammy c7000 other than the Sammy may be more saturated (which could be good or bad).

if we say the st60 = vt50 (which is basically does), does that not make the ST60 the best tv of 2012?

this of course was supposed to emphasize how buying a 3yr old tv(not a 1yr old vt50) would be a huge step backwards because this years crop made more than the usual incremental step forward. so much so that an ST60 equals or betters last years flagship VT50.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

this was my feeling as well, except i'm not as sensitive to the colors i guess cause i called that one a wash.

all i know, is that in feb i basically walked into a store with cash in hand saying box up your biggest vt50 in stock, and shortly after i walked out waiting to see the vt60 and zt60 with the thought that an st60 was a better tv for less money anyway, so no need to rush. ironically i brought home an f8500 about a month later...

Yes I agree and the VT50 is the best set I have ever owned, i think the equal comparison is probably fair in almost all aspects.
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