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The official AVS "PC Game Console" thread - Page 3

post #61 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

I would not. I've worked for Best Buy twice, and I've seen how the receiving department handles computer components. I will NEVER buy any pc part from Best Buy, let alone let them use those parts in my PC. You ever seen a $500+ video card get thrown like a frisbee down the length of a truck, smacking the wall and then the ground? Then see it get put on the shelf for someone to buy?

I'm not saying all stores are like that and it probably happens everywhere, but I've seen it first hand in Best Buy, so I will NEVER recommend getting parts from them.

Should you choose to go to Best Buy, take EVERYTHING the sales person says with a grain of salt, 90% of them have no idea what they're talking about and are just trying to sell you the most expensive thing they can get you to buy. (This is why I was let go, I didn't push useless crap on people that didn't need it lol)

As for keeping it running smoothly and doing tweaking, I'd trust forum members here, or on OCN, or Tom's Hardward, Guru3D, TPU, etc, to help with that over someone at Best Buy.

THIS.

I also worked at Best Buy where I also worked in back and witnessed things like $500 videocards just being tossed around. Marafice is NOT exaggerating or using hyperbole. I was there. You should have seen my face the first time I realized what they were tossing. Seriously. These little cardboard boxes with fragile videocards were hitting the wall, the roller thingie we slid items down from off the truck, on the ground and once EVEN KICKED! This wasn't even one or two guys but most of them. Now, I would not do that and told them not to. Obviously I did not make friends there and quickly got my ass out.

NEVER BUY COMPUTER PARTS FROM BEST BUY, let alone let them build/configure/fix (attempt to) your computer. Don't. After seeing this behavior with my own eyes... I would never buy parts from them let alone recommend it to someone else.
post #62 of 429
I don't know Best Buy's employee system, but the geek squad can't be the same people tossing inventory around to get stocked?


That sounds like bad employees all around. Bad manager that doesn't stop that kind of behavior.
post #63 of 429
No but they are fatter and just as useless but much more condescending. tongue.gif

At least that's been my experience.

They will, however, have access to the same inventory that has just been tossed around like a football.

I mean, go to Best Buy when you're desperate for a new TV or some new movie or something. Don't use it as a place to source computer parts OR rely on their ability to overcharge you for service. Might as well just buy a pre-made computer from any other place.
post #64 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

That's what this thread is for!, Glad to be of service. I'll do some looking around at pre-builts, if you're really set on one, to see what I can find in that $1000 range.

Yes I'm quoting myself, deal with it.

So looking around at prebuilts, and the custom vendors has been rather un-fruitful

Anything in the $1000 range is rather crap in terms of hardware, and anything remotely similar to the $1000 build I put together on PC Part Picker for LETH2AL, is almost double that, and in some case more than double.

This is exactly what I meant about saving yourself tons of money by building it yourself, or even paying someone $100 to do it. You're paying 10x that for a company to do it, and that's ridiculous.

Some examples of custom builts using the same hardware in my build, with differences noted -


Puget Systems (Spirit)- $1712 before taxes/shipping, not HTPC form factor, 2tb drive instead of 3tb (no option for 3tb)
Falcon NW (Tiki)- $2148 before taxes/shipping, is HTPC style form factor, 2tb drive, no option for a 3tb primary
Falcon NW (FragBox) - $2115 before taxes/shipping, is HTPC form factor, 2tb drive, no option for 3tb primary, does have watercooling for CPU
CyberPowerPC (Custom Z87) - $1103 before taxes/shipping. Not HTPC form factor, 2tb drive, no 3tb option, Has a Hyper 212 EVO CPU cooler
IBuyPower (Custom Z87) - $1284 before taxes/shipping. Not HTPC form factor, 2tb drive, no 3tb option for primary.
Doghouse Systems (Armor ES) - $2040 before taxes/shipping, Not HTPC form factor, 2tb drive, slower BR drive
Origin PC (Small) - $1725 before taxes/shipping, Small but not HTPC form factor, 2tb drive.


The list can go on. If you have to have it built by a company, use Cyberpower, they're the closest to what it should realistically cost.
Edited by Marafice Eye - 11/2/13 at 11:55pm
post #65 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I don't know Best Buy's employee system, but the geek squad can't be the same people tossing inventory around to get stocked?

That sounds like bad employees all around. Bad manager that doesn't stop that kind of behavior.

YRD: I agree with you. I or no one else recommended LETH2AL buy a system or parts from Best Buy. In fact everyone suggested that he pretty much follow Marafice eye and Daverj's advice. That is shop the parts as suggested. Research and study the videos. But have someone knowledgeable help him build it. If it was too intimidating for him to do alone. Our 3-8 hours of building a PC from scratch...loading/updating software...and tweaking/optimizing the system...even with video support...could easily become a 2-5 day marathon for a person that is not inclined to do it. Nor want to do it. And I most definitely would dole the project out to a company or someone that would warranty the work I had them do on a $1000 project. And I would expect them to have a service/vendor relationship, corporate or otherwise, with all of the parts and software manufacturers. And would be around if I needed them. Especially if I had zero experience.

So what happens if the $100 friend or un-bonded resource accidentally breaks a critical part? And the Parts company or manufacturer won't cover it under warranty? What if a part defaults after about 45-60 days? RAID or Non RAID setup? How much RAM? Especially since I have a generous amount of VRAM on the GPU. I suspect those are the kind of things LETH2AL is worried about if he takes it on himself. I only recommended using Best Buy for software, assembly and tech support because he is already comfortable with them and doesn't feel comfortable taking any or all of it on.

I have found that Geek Squad is credible in the areas I recommended to him. Based on my experience suggesting them to a few friends for the exact same situation. I haven't had a single one complain about what they ended up with. Maybe they were lucky and got the Marafice Eye types in the Boston area. Yeah...BB can gouge you with unneeded stuff if you let them. But I think if he wisely follows suggestions on this thread regarding parts and even assembly. I'd have zero concerns with having Geek squad turn the thing on...load & update the software...and optimize the hardware for about $150.00. Because they could debug any mistakes he made in assembly. He just has to make sure he chooses a Best Buy with knowledgeable Geek squad staff like Marafice. And they are out there. We all can sometime forget how intimidating this process can be the first time around. And the panic that can set in when we turn the thing on and.....nothing happens. Or you put a CPU in for the first time and don't get the bazillion pins in the holes exactly correct. I know the fun is in the learning for all of us. But for some people...that is pure torture.
post #66 of 429
I decided I'm going to buy the parts myself and try to put it together. My fiancées brother has the know how and will help me,, it's just been a few years since he's done it. @marafice eye, how powerful is that set up you recommended? What settings would I be able play BF4 on if you had to guess? Also I think I'm still going to get my X1. This set you gave recommended will run as a normal PC as well right? I have a Mac I might sell to help pay for it since I'm keeping my x1.
post #67 of 429
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETH2AL View Post

I decided I'm going to buy the parts myself and try to put it together. My fiancées brother has the know how and will help me,, it's just been a few years since he's done it. @marafice eye, how powerful is that set up you recommended? What settings would I be able play BF4 on if you had to guess? Also I think I'm still going to get my X1. This set you gave recommended will run as a normal PC as well right? I have a Mac I might sell to help pay for it since I'm keeping my x1.

Yay! Good luck to you. The first build is intimidating, but also a learning experience. Take it slow, and if anything goes wrong, let us know and chances are someone will put you on the right path to fixing it.

I'm also getting an Xbox One and PS4 because it's what I do. tongue.gif I have a hard time resisting video game stuff, so I just decided to automatically get anything new (mostly) to experience for myself. But I had no idea when I rebuilt my PC last Christmas and hooked it up to a TV and played PC games with a X360 gamepad how much it would take over my gaming life. Since then I rarely turn on the 360 anymore - played a little GTA-V and a tiny bit of Halo4 this year - that's about it. Same with the PS3 - played some of the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix a couple weeks ago. Once experiencing 1080p @ 60fps with cheap digital downloads, it's hard to go back to those consoles.

Keep us up to date.
post #68 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post


Yay! Good luck to you. The first build is intimidating, but also a learning experience. Take it slow, and if anything goes wrong, let us know and chances are someone will put you on the right path to fixing it.

I'm also getting an Xbox One and PS4 because it's what I do. tongue.gif I have a hard time resisting video game stuff, so I just decided to automatically get anything new (mostly) to experience for myself. But I had no idea when I rebuilt my PC last Christmas and hooked it up to a TV and played PC games with a X360 gamepad how much it would take over my gaming life. Since then I rarely turn on the 360 anymore - played a little GTA-V and a tiny bit of Halo4 this year - that's about it. Same with the PS3 - played some of the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix a couple weeks ago. Once experiencing 1080p @ 60fps with cheap digital downloads, it's hard to go back to those consoles.

Keep us up to date.

 

Yep....pretty much the same story here. It's really hard to go back to consoles now.

post #69 of 429
The only thing I'd be especially careful about if it's your first build is the CPU and CPU socket. Those can be really fragile, even if you ARE doing it the right way (I had a bad experience with that earlier this year myself despite having done ~10 different builds before).

For that reason, I wouldn't recommend purchasing a CPU or motherboard from Newegg, even if they end up being the lowest price. Their return policy does not cover bent pins, which means you're generally SOL in that scenario. (In my specific case I was able to bend the pins back into place and end up with a fully working system, but in the future I'll only ever buy those parts from Amazon or Microcenter where I get a no-questions asked return policy instead).
post #70 of 429
Hi Guys,

What a great thread! It is fantastic to see people offering such great help and support.

I have also been contemplating building a gaming PC for my theatre room, even more so now after being underwhelmed by the new consoles. I will still be getting the Xbox one as my wife and I enjoy playing split screen coop and online games together but I think a PC is going to be much better for the single player games and racing sims (I'll still be able to use my Fanatec wheel).

Next year I expect to get a 4k projector and was wondering if any video cards support HDMI 2.0? Also I have a 9.2 surround sound sound system and am wondering what kind of in game surround sound support can a PC offer over HDMI?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get closer to putting this thing together but I want to thank you guys in advance.

King Regards

Scott
post #71 of 429
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidjammer View Post

Next year I expect to get a 4k projector and was wondering if any video cards support HDMI 2.0? Also I have a 9.2 surround sound sound system and am wondering what kind of in game surround sound support can a PC offer over HDMI?

4K @ 60fps is currently available through DisplayPort, but not HDMI yet. Once HDMI 2.0 starts hitting mass market, I'm sure the video cards will follow.

I believe Windows tops out at 7.1 for surround - can anyone verify?
post #72 of 429
Hey guys, awesome thread!

I'm a self confessed pc building freak. Got the bug a while back and I just wanted to stop by and say to the guys on the fence, there really is such a great amount of satisfaction when you build your own PC.
And you feel comfortable opening it up when something goes wrong or it's time to upgrade.

So, like I said my pc building love exists on the outer fringes, but I thought I'd share my last pc.

It took me a year to build eek.gif (there was a spell during the summer where I didn't touch it) but most of it was made by hand including each and every cable, the hotswap harddrive cage, etc









There seems to be some very knowledgable guys in this thread which is awesome, I'm happy to help anyone if they have questions as well!

Awesome thread guys!

JB
post #73 of 429
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bolton View Post

So, like I said my pc building love exists on the outer fringes, but I thought I'd share my last pc.

That is a work of art Josh - very impressed! You would be shocked to see the wiring job in my PC. tongue.gif
post #74 of 429
You're one of these guys that also fancies himself a photographer and can't help himself taking angled shots. Those angles drive me nuts... Engadget does it too. But they also have the edges blurred, totally unnecessary embellishment.
post #75 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

That is a work of art Josh - very impressed! You would be shocked to see the wiring job in my PC. tongue.gif

No judgement here. I've been there and the time and effort it takes to make cable management perfect is out of the question for 99% of people, and I completely understand.

Here is some of my cable management from the same project.



And before powder coating, I'll have to find a finished pic of the lower compartment but it gives you an idea

post #76 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

You're one of these guys that also fancies himself a photographer and can't help himself taking angled shots. Those angles drive me nuts... Engadget does it too. But they also have the edges blurred, totally unnecessary embellishment.

Yup.

This hobby (building pc's) has taught me photography, soldering, welding, milling, sleeving, and about 200 other skills. It's seriously the best hobby I've ever found.

Some days I'm cutting aluminum in temps below 0 degrees and some days I'm making circuit boards in autocad, nothing else like it.
post #77 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETH2AL View Post

I decided I'm going to buy the parts myself and try to put it together. My fiancées brother has the know how and will help me,, it's just been a few years since he's done it. @marafice eye, how powerful is that set up you recommended? What settings would I be able play BF4 on if you had to guess? Also I think I'm still going to get my X1. This set you gave recommended will run as a normal PC as well right? I have a Mac I might sell to help pay for it since I'm keeping my x1.

No need to guess. That setup will run BF4 on Ultra @ 1080p with no AA, at an average of 70fps on a full 64player Operation Locker server. Some small dips as low as 48 can happen, but with a couple slight tweaks, you can get a solid stable 60.

All PCs, even the ones we recommend, arr still normal PCs, their hardware is just geared towards gaming. You can still do all the normal PC stuff as well.

And really, don't worry about bent CPU pins, not from Newegg anyway. The way CPUs are boxed and packaged makes it incredibly hard for pins to get bent these days. And while the policy may say no returns, Newegg 's customer service is the best I've ever had to deal with.

Heck I accidentally dropped my i7 4770K chip when I was re-seating everything, no bent pins. Just gotta be careful like you would with anything delicate.

Best thing for you to do now is decide on a final budget and go from there.

I'm not sure where you live, but if you have a Micro Center near you, that's the best brick-and-mortar computer parts places to go to.
post #78 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bolton View Post

No judgement here. I've been there and the time and effort it takes to make cable management perfect is out of the question for 99% of people, and I completely understand.


You are right on that. I would love to chop about half of my cables out of my system, but don't have the wherewithal to do it. I have this huge pile of unused cable from the PSU sitting on the bottom of my case.

I'm the pc builder that say's "good enough!" Although I do take some extra time to route the cables to make it as clean as possible.
post #79 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

No need to guess. That setup will run BF4 on Ultra @ 1080p with no AA, at an average of 70fps on a full 64player Operation Locker server. Some small dips as low as 48 can happen, but with a couple slight tweaks, you can get a solid stable 60.

All PCs, even the ones we recommend, arr still normal PCs, their hardware is just geared towards gaming. You can still do all the normal PC stuff as well.

And really, don't worry about bent CPU pins, not from Newegg anyway. The way CPUs are boxed and packaged makes it incredibly hard for pins to get bent these days. And while the policy may say no returns, Newegg 's customer service is the best I've ever had to deal with.

Heck I accidentally dropped my i7 4770K chip when I was re-seating everything, no bent pins. Just gotta be careful like you would with anything delicate.

Best thing for you to do now is decide on a final budget and go from there.

I'm not sure where you live, but if you have a Micro Center near you, that's the best brick-and-mortar computer parts places to go to.

The cost you had that at is pretty close, maybe 1,100-1,200 to start. That case would have room for upgrades in the future right? I defiantly want it to be future proof as much as possible. I don't know if I should start this before Christmas though...lol. I'm one of those guys, when I start sinking money into something I can get out of control pretty quick. I think I'm going to start with that exact setup you recommended, just upgrade from there if I need to.
post #80 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETH2AL View Post

The cost you had that at is pretty close, maybe 1,100-1,200 to start. That case would have room for upgrades in the future right? I defiantly want it to be future proof as much as possible. I don't know if I should start this before Christmas though...lol. I'm one of those guys, when I start sinking money into something I can get out of control pretty quick. I think I'm going to start with that exact setup you recommended, just upgrade from there if I need to.

You'll have to decide if you want the HTPC form factor that you can get, or if you want a normal case. A normal case is much roomier, allowing for additional hardware, or upgrades and makes the process easier.

That Silverstone Milo case, supports normal sized power supplies, and can fit most full size video cards, but cooling options and possible upgrades are limited. There are many cases that are more typical towers that are sleek, minimalistic and some that have sound dampening in them. These would be a preferable option for better future-proofing.

Not that it can't be done with an HTPC style case, because it can, but you'll be choosing parts based on what will fit, rather than what you may really want.

Some quick examples of small towers with minimalistic, sleek looks

Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl - $100 sleek, all black, with sound dampening
AZZA Silentium 920B - $75 little fancier but still sleek, black, and sound dampened
BitFenix Ghost - $75 compact, sleek, black

There are a lot of options out there, just have to choose. Tower or HTPC, and then from there, sort through until you find one you really like
Edited by Marafice Eye - 11/3/13 at 10:44am
post #81 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

You are right on that. I would love to chop about half of my cables out of my system, but don't have the wherewithal to do it. I have this huge pile of unused cable from the PSU sitting on the bottom of my case.

I'm the pc builder that say's "good enough!" Although I do take some extra time to route the cables to make it as clean as possible.

Agreed! I will tell you the best thing in those situations is to buy a modular PSU so you don't have to hide any cables you don't use.
post #82 of 429
My old computer was terrible for cable management. The fractal one I got is amazing - the cables sit behind the other side of the case. I'm sure that there many cases these days that do that, but I was thoroughly impressed.

Here's a pic of what it looked like just after I built it (first build ever, don't judge):



I actually enjoyed it so much I'm asking my friends if/when they need a new computer so I can build them one!

PS - don't hate on the tablecloth - it was for pumpkin carving!
post #83 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

My old computer was terrible for cable management. The fractal one I got is amazing - the cables sit behind the other side of the case. I'm sure that there many cases these days that do that, but I was thoroughly impressed.

Here's a pic of what it looked like just after I built it (first build ever, don't judge):



I actually enjoyed it so much I'm asking my friends if/when they need a new computer so I can build them one!

PS - don't hate on the tablecloth - it was for pumpkin carving!

Sexy build, lots of airflow for the fans - nice job!. I did my best with my older P182 case, it's silent as all heck, but not the best for cable management. I did mod it somewhat, installing an extra fan 5 inches in front of one of the intake fans, then sealed off the sides of the two fans creating a wind tunnel, that seems to ( with my other 3 fans ) keep my overclocked gtx 680 and Oc'd 3570k ( from 3.2 to 4.4 ) nice and cool!
post #84 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

My old computer was terrible for cable management. The fractal one I got is amazing - the cables sit behind the other side of the case. I'm sure that there many cases these days that do that, but I was thoroughly impressed.

Here's a pic of what it looked like just after I built it (first build ever, don't judge):



I actually enjoyed it so much I'm asking my friends if/when they need a new computer so I can build them one!

PS - don't hate on the tablecloth - it was for pumpkin carving!


I think you did an awesome job especially for your first build.

I love that you want to build more, you've got the itch.
post #85 of 429
My current rig was my first build where I actually tried to do some cable management, The picture isn't that great, but you can see at least some decent management lol.




(Full sized image here )
post #86 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

My current rig was my first build where I actually tried to do some cable management, The picture isn't that great, but you can see at least some decent management lol.




(Full sized image here )


Looks good! Which case is that?
post #87 of 429
That's the Corsair Vengeance C70 Arctic White. I love it, so roomy and really cool.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139014

The sides are the easiest to take off that I've ever used. Each side uses a pair of clips like you find on an ammo box to secure, makes for breezy removal.


It also comes in Black and Military Green. It's actually a very subdued case too. the only light on it is the white LED on the front for hard drive activity, and the power button, but I don't think I have my power button light connected as it's not on, and I'm fine with that lol.
Edited by Marafice Eye - 11/3/13 at 3:35pm
post #88 of 429
Very cool case!
post #89 of 429
There are so many cases out there, from sleek HTPC cases, to ultra monstrosities that wouldn't look out of place in an industrial server room, and then everything in between. 10 years ago I wanted the most gaudy case I could find and have it covered with lights and cold cathode tubes. Now I like the subdued, sleeker look, with just a hint of flair, like the C70. How the times have changed.
post #90 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

There are so many cases out there, from sleek HTPC cases, to ultra monstrosities that wouldn't look out of place in an industrial server room, and then everything in between. 10 years ago I wanted the most gaudy case I could find and have it covered with lights and cold cathode tubes. Now I like the subdued, sleeker look, with just a hint of flair, like the C70. How the times have changed.

Agreed. I am a huge fan of Lian Li cases for that very reason, and of course my obsession with aluminum.smile.gif
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