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Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 16

post #451 of 1884
Hi all, looking for some input.

I've recently started moving into separates witht he purchase of an Outlaw Model 7125 amp. Next step (30-60 days) is an "upgrade" on the preamp/avr front. I'm suffering from info overload, and one of my issues is AVR vs Preamp, and version of room correction.

Ive always used Audyssey, but have heard ARC is one of the best. I'm leaning towards getting an AVR to use a preamp because of cost. With say a Marantz 7701, its $1600 and you do not get Audyssey XT32. I can get a Denon X4000 AVr, but those things are hot and I then wonder about the budget they spent on the analog section. The other plus I see to an AVR as a preamp, is that if the amp goes down, you still can run your gear until its repaired.

Just looking at Anthem, it appears I need the 510, and that is also right in my price range. So a few questions if you do not mind:


Anyone using a 510 or 710 as a preamp, what are your thoughts on sound quality?
As far as preamp function, Im not running anything more than 5.1, is there any reason to look at the 710?
What brand of DAC's does Anthem use?
Also curious if anyone has used both ARC and Audyssey. I've been told by more than on professional that they felt ARC was superior.

TIA. Also if you can think of any other input, it would be greatly appreciated. My system basically consists of two DVRs going into an Oppo 103D, with it sending A/V out to the AVR, then one HDMI to the display and the analog cables out to the amp.

If I go the AVR route, Im basically looking for the best analog SQ and room correction I can get for $1500 or so, and of course reliability is always a good thing. I have zero experience with Anthem. smile.gif

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #452 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinifinina View Post
 

Hi RayPaganJr,

 

May I ask when your MRX510 was shutdown unexpectedly, did you put your hand on top of the receiver to check if it is hot? Because from my personal experience, it is not recommended to place any other AV unit on top of an AMP. My MRX510 runs quite hot every night when I switching it off, and I am only running a pair of 6 ohm book shelf speakers with video process switch ON from about 7pm to 11PM volume ranging from -40 to -35 dB from the display.

 

But if the unit was cool and it still keeps shutting itself down, then I guess it is a faulty unit. Otherwise if the unit can stay ON long enough, try to reinstall the firmware of the unit and see if it fix it. My experience with My MRX510 did not start well either. I had a problem with all of the inputs including ALL HDMI. There was just no signal feeding into the receiver from any of the HDMI and analog inputs, so no sound coming out from my speaker. Then I selected "restore to factory default", and it solved the problem. BUT! every time, when I change my HDMI inputs for example unplug my blueray HDMI cable from HDMI in 1 to HDMI in 4 and then reassign in the input menu, NO SOUND AGAIN from ALL of my HDMI inputs. I was about to return it, but then I though I'll give it a last try by reinstall the firmware ( I downloaded from Anthem website). Then the whole thing is fine. I can unplug what ever HDMI cable I want and reinsert to any HDMI input without any problem. Although I still have doubts that whether Anthem is reliable or not, so I was planning to return it and swap for Marantz SR6008, but then the more I listen to the Anthem, the more I like it. So I decided to keep it.

 

I hope you can try reinstall the firmware and see if it fix it, otherwise you should return it. Hope this helps.       

One other, too-late comment, since I didn't see anyone else mention it:  Did you try doing a Master Reset (pg. 30 in the Operating Manual)?  It occurs as the system is powering up, so even a few seconds of time should be enough.  If you simultaneously apply power & hold the front panel SETUP & MAIN power buttons, it's supposed to restore the unit to the factory defaults, fixing any problems caused by a software issue, configuration or otherwise.

 

Good luck!

post #453 of 1884
I couldn't do a reset because the unit would only stay on for four seconds. I counted. I ended up returning it. They tried to turn it on, but was getting the same results. I'm glad it wasn't one of those, you know, doesn't work in your house, then you take it back to the dealership and, voila, it starts.

Got the new unit home and it's been working just fine. I haven't done any real setup other than to connect and play. I'll probably use my Parasound for the front three and the receiver for the rest of the speakers.. I also have a second zone running my outdoor speakers. That's my next project when the holiday festivities are over with.
post #454 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Hi all, looking for some input.

I've recently started moving into separates witht he purchase of an Outlaw Model 7125 amp. Next step (30-60 days) is an "upgrade" on the preamp/avr front. I'm suffering from info overload, and one of my issues is AVR vs Preamp, and version of room correction.

Ive always used Audyssey, but have heard ARC is one of the best. I'm leaning towards getting an AVR to use a preamp because of cost. With say a Marantz 7701, its $1600 and you do not get Audyssey XT32. I can get a Denon X4000 AVr, but those things are hot and I then wonder about the budget they spent on the analog section. The other plus I see to an AVR as a preamp, is that if the amp goes down, you still can run your gear until its repaired.

Just looking at Anthem, it appears I need the 510, and that is also right in my price range. So a few questions if you do not mind:


Anyone using a 510 or 710 as a preamp, what are your thoughts on sound quality?
As far as preamp function, Im not running anything more than 5.1, is there any reason to look at the 710?
What brand of DAC's does Anthem use?
Also curious if anyone has used both ARC and Audyssey. I've been told by more than on professional that they felt ARC was superior.

TIA. Also if you can think of any other input, it would be greatly appreciated. My system basically consists of two DVRs going into an Oppo 103D, with it sending A/V out to the AVR, then one HDMI to the display and the analog cables out to the amp.

If I go the AVR route, Im basically looking for the best analog SQ and room correction I can get for $1500 or so, and of course reliability is always a good thing. I have zero experience with Anthem. smile.gif


There are many who use the MRXs as a preamp, both first and current generation with good results. The key ingredient here is the ARC.

 

The 510 and 710 are pretty powerful. Depending on speakers and volume etc, you may or many not derive more benefits from a power amp. The power amp stage of the new Gen MRX is very good.

 

As a preamp, you may find the 310 enough. The processing of all 3 MRX models are the same. The only significant difference other than power is that the 310 only outputs 5.1; including using it as a preamp. It may not be a big deal except if you want to biamp your fronts. Then again you can use a splitter cable, The 510 and 710 also have a front HDMI input, which is useful for laptops and other portables like phones. Some posters have reported problems using older HDMI cables.

 

As for sound quality, I had a listen to my friend's Yamaha RSX 673 and coming from an Arcam AVR360, I can give you my impressions of what I think the differences are.

 

The Arcams and Anthems are quite "musical". The Yam is fantastic for AV content. The difference is that the Yam's DAC will highlight "effect" sounds. Makes everything sound more compelling. You get blown away straight away. But gets tiring when listening to music. Even in Pure Direct mode, it highlights unnecessarilu.

 

The Anthem, and especially Arcam, is more neutral and natural sounding. Voices and instruments come up smoother and sweeter. Basically miderange. The whole sound stage is much stronger. Ok, I appreciate the Yam I'm listening too is entry-level, but my impressions seem to concur with many in the AV business.

 

Again, it may be a matter of taste. I would say the Yam has a nice user interface and does sound quite good. But for raw SQ, still prefer the Anthems and Arcams.

 

And here comes the conundrum, I think overall, the Anthems are slightly less neutral than the Arcam, Which isn't a bad thing. It makes the material more involving, but not too much. Which makes it great for AV as well, as you do want the effects to jolt you a bit. User interface though is rather drab compared to the Yam. It is lightning fast though, so I don't care.

 

Then there is ARC. The new ARC1M is extremely close to the ARC implemented in the pro grade D2V. I would venture to add it is better than the Audyssey. It can really tame all kinds of room environments and get the best out of whatever equipment and room you have.. My graphs are a case in point. And that is on autosetup. Basically smoothened everything out. Took me 15 min to set up. All done.

 

I was also commenting on another thread what a great a great 2 channel stereo amp it makes. And so, hard to find something better at that price point.

 

You can consider how you want to make best use of your Oppo. The Oppo is well known for its DAC and video upscaling. The Anthem does allow for analog passthrough. But then it also bypasses ARC for bass management. Processing analog is probably a bad idea cos its double conversion. To implement ARC on an analog signal, it first has to convert it to digital, process, then back. That was the criticism of the first Gen MRX. You may want to play around with using the HDMI out and see how the Anthem's DAC performs. I can't fault it so far. Then again, I don't have an Oppo.

 

If you're not too fussed about a fancy user interface, having Airplay, network radio etc, on pure SQ alone, I think the Anthem is untouchable. Every cent/penny you pay for goes into giving you the best sound.

 

The only choice is between the different models. I wouldn't worry about the quoted output figures; they're highly misleading.

 

I do think the 310 is probably too weak for anything except a cosy room with sat/sub combos/small bookshelves. The 510 seems to be the sweet spot. It does have a lot of juice, but doesn't seem like a waste if youi add a power amp later. I think the 710 is really for people who have decided they willl never get a power amp ever.

 

If you already have a power amp, you should consider the 310 and 510.

post #455 of 1884
Does anyone know if the MRX 710 has "true" pre-amp outputs like the MRX 700 did? In that it passes the audio signal completely "untouched" (no addition or lose of signal volume like a true pre-amp processor)?
post #456 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Does anyone know if the MRX 710 has "true" pre-amp outputs like the MRX 700 did? In that it passes the audio signal completely "untouched" (no addition or lose of signal volume like a true pre-amp processor)?

 

Yes. Or at least the preamp outs at the same as the first Gen

post #457 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by melb View Post
 


Hey! Merry Christmas.  I had the same problem as did others. It appears the Anthem does not like some routers.  My router assigns an ip and I can bing the Anthem from my Windows 7 Toshiba laptop but ARC will not find it. One chap changed his router and it worked. I used direct connect method and it worked right away.

Let me know if you need a hand with direct connect.  I think we will have to wait for the next update from Anthem to sort this out.

 

ARC is fantastic BTW.

Hi there,

 

Make sure "IP Control" is enable under "General Configuration". This should solve your problem. 

post #458 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchPope View Post

You're missing the whole point of why they use a computer to do the calculations. You need a computer for their $10,000 D2v. if you don't like it, don't buy one.
Hi,

I noticed you went from a 300 to 510. Was there a big change in sound quality using the same speakers and room? I'm debating whether to get a 510 and jump to a 7.1 system from 5.1.

Personally, I think the idea of using a computer to perform the calculations is great:) I'm not interested in pay extra bucks for a computer that I can't use outside of my avr:D
post #459 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Hi,

I noticed you went from a 300 to 510. Was there a big change in sound quality using the same speakers and room? I'm debating whether to get a 510 and jump to a 7.1 system from 5.1.

Personally, I think the idea of using a computer to perform the calculations is great:) I'm not interested in pay extra bucks for a computer that I can't use outside of my avr:D

I wouldn't say it was a big change, the 300 already sounded pretty good, but it was noticeable. For me, it seemed like better stereo imaging. If you aren't sure about 7.1 yet, you can now bi-amp your fronts if you stay 5.1.
post #460 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post


Hi,

I noticed you went from a 300 to 510. Was there a big change in sound quality using the same speakers and room? I'm debating whether to get a 510 and jump to a 7.1 system from 5.1.

Personally, I think the idea of using a computer to perform the calculations is great:) I'm not interested in pay extra bucks for a computer that I can't use outside of my avr:D


Just borrow one. Only need to run the automatic setup once and its probably better than chasing your own tail. At the very least, your dealer should be able to help.

 

Takes 10, max 20 min to do. And that's it!

post #461 of 1884
Just thought I'd compare the ARC results between the 500 & 710. All other equipment, etc. remained the same. The resultant curves are much smoother with the 710. My impressions - Right out of the box, the 710's soundstage was more defined, high frequency response seemed improved, and the overall sound was more "clear". These improvements were easily recognized. I opted for the 710 to get the stiffer power supply, and transient response also seems improved. To me, the upgrade was worth it.
post #462 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

Are people expecting to pay full MSRP to order one of these new models?

The dealer in my area was running a special on Anthem gear for a short time. They were offering the MRX710 for 1799.
post #463 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I'm not sure you know this, but without room correction you are not hearing the music, you are hearing the effect the room has on the music. Play the same music in a different room with the same equipment, and it will sound totally different. If you want to hear just the music the way the producer intended it to sound, you have to remove the room which is what room correction does. Without room correction each room has different peaks, nulls, highs and lows based on the rooms size, shape, furniture and how absorbent or reflective the room is. So while you think you've been hearing your music, without room correction you've actually been hearing your room's effect on the music.

I understand what you are saying. I would disagree with your statement that with no room correction you are not hearing the music. Why do so many purist here listen to their music in "pure direct" witch turns off all processing? I would submit to you, that quality of speakers, good amps with high current, speaker placement, room treatment, (if possible), bass traps, etc, also play an extremely important role in how the music sounds.
post #464 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

There's nothing wrong with being able to setup more efficiently or perhaps more precisely using a computer, but there's no reason at these price levels why the setup couldn't have been embedded on a chip in the receiver and using remote controls to make selections and settings. If a $300 receiver can do do it, these receivers should have been able to do it. Even if using a computer was not an issue, limiting it to a PC is an issue. Many people use Macs. In fact, if the receiver is going to force you to use an external device for setup, it should be compatible with Windows, Android, MacOS and iOS so you can use Pads, smartphones or whatever. But in the end, you shouldn't need an external device at all.

I'm very interested in these receivers, but the PC limitation makes it a deal-breaker for me.

I agree, that and the fact that there are no 7.1 channel inputs. I guess I really need to go and hear it for myself. Or better yet, bring it home and set it up. Only problem is, with most Anthem dealers, if you walk out of the door with it, you can't bring it back, unless they allow you to make some kind of prearranged agreement with them.
post #465 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by music first View Post

I understand what you are saying. I would disagree with your statement that with no room correction you are not hearing the music. Why do so many purist here listen to their music in "pure direct" witch turns off all processing? I would submit to you, that quality of speakers, good amps with high current, speaker placement, room treatment, (if possible), bass traps, etc, also play an extremely important role in how the music sounds.
I don't think you understand. Pure Direct which turns off all processing brings back all the peaks nulls etc... from the room. So in pure direct you are hearing the rooms effect on the music because the room's response is not flat. Bass traps are used to do a similar thing that room correction does which is remove the room's effects and flatten the response which is what room correction does. To hear the music the way it was intended you much first flatten the rooms response as much as possible. Then you'll hear the music as it was intended. Without flattening the response of the room you are still hearing the rooms effect on the music.
post #466 of 1884

With due respect to the receivers with "Pure Direct" functions, first, I don't think its genuinely unadulterated.

 

Secondly, these receivers tend to emphasise effects sounds. It makes music sound unnatural and harsh. Makes movies more exciting sure, but really ruins music. "Pure Direct" turns off these additional colourations.

 

This is quite different from ARC which flattens frequency response to remove unwanted peaks from room echoes etc in the listening positions. So the intention is you hear the speakers rather than speakers + room. Of course, any preamp do process signals differently. That's no different from any stereo preamp; but overall, Anthem, and also Arcams, do sound more natural and neutral.

 

There are purists, and there are pseouds.

 

A friend of mine has a dedicated room, treated, vac amp (custom made from Cold-War era technology), turntable, stereo speakers, custom speaker stands (hand-made, studio grade). I can understand if he wouldn't want an Anthem.

 

Sure, with top end UDPs like Oppo, the analog signal is excellent. However, the raison d'etre of Anthem is the ARC. Bypass amping of multichannel analog input makes no sense. To be purist, one would do better to use a few stereo/mono pre/power amp combos, and play everything at "reference" level.

 

Stereo content, to good full-range 3-way speakers are a different matter. Bass management is entirely down to the passive crossover painstaingly built into the speakers. Still, I think the Anthems would give many stereo setups a run for their money.

 

Some reviewers are favouring 2.1 setups with bookshelves; in which case there is filtering and bass management anyway. So this "purist" thing is very questionable.

 

Instead of splitting hairs, I take a more realistic approach to how much I want/can invest (time/money/effort), and just enjoy.

post #467 of 1884
+1
post #468 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokyc View Post


Just borrow one. Only need to run the automatic setup once and its probably better than chasing your own tail. At the very least, your dealer should be able to help.

Takes 10, max 20 min to do. And that's it!

I have a HTPC with an actual serial port sitting in my TV stand so I have have no problems running ARC via serial or ethernet.
post #469 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinzie View Post

Already tried both, but still no luck. I also tried another router I had at home and was able to connect using that router...
ARC works great. Very fast. Very informative graphs...

@Melb: thanks for all you advice/help so far... biggrin.gif

Finally found the solution to this problem(since using that other router didn't seem to work after that 1 time...). I disable all additional LAN adapters on the laptop (e.g. VMware LAN adapters) and now the perfectly connects to
the MRX, even through WIFI. Thought I'd share it on this forum, in case anyone else encounters such an issue...
post #470 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedSurfer View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmd View Post
 


Thanks Speedsurfer.  This is very helpful information.  I guess it's not surprising that the DAC and electronics in your $2000 HD20 would outperform the DAC in the much cheaper MRX 510.  I don't believe I've read anywhere yet what type of DAC implementation that Anthem is using in the MRX receivers.

 

I would really like to figure out the best way to get digital (hi-rez) audio into a MRX.  Previous suggestions by another AVS member to use a Sonos or Squeezebox don't really work for hi-rez audio since Sonos does not support anything over 16-44 and Squeezebox doesn't do better than 24-96.  Not to mention no support for the new DSD audio that's starting to become popular.  In addition, these streamers are using somewhat dated technology that is not considered state of the art by audiophiles for top-notch audio quality.  A much better choice would be something like the new Sonore Rendu or the Marantz NA11S1 network streamers.  I have some friends who think hi-rez audio is just a marketing gimmick and the extra resolution doesn't do much for the sound.  However, I already own a lot of the stuff and I'd like to be able to play it back properly.  That means using a computer or a high quality streamer.

 

Here's the test comparison that I think would be very interesting if you would be willing to try it:

 

1. Computer > HDMI > MRX 510 (with ARC on) > (+/- Hegel H200) > speakers

 

2. Computer > USB > Hegel HD20 > analog RCA > MRX 510 (with ARC on) > (+/- Hegel H200) > speakers

 

In this test the MRX 510 would be in the signal path in both cases.  This would allow us to figure out if an expensive external DAC makes any positive difference in sound quality.  From a cost perspective, It would be nice if they sounded the same.  It would eliminate the need to buy an external DAC.

 

BTW, what type of computer / software player do you use?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 



I will do these tests this weekend, no time before that...

I use a Mac Mini (new model) running Windows 8.1 and my audio software is JRiver media center using WASAPI. I see no reason at all going for any dedicated network streamer, this is cheaper and should sound at least as good. And I can control JRiver on my Android phone with the Gizmo App.

I will also test using Tolstois suggestion about using one profile without the Sub (Thanks!)


Hi SpeedSurfer.  Have you had a chance to do this test?  Really looking forward to your opinion regarding this comparison.  I guess the question boils down to: is an expensive external DAC beneficial with Anthem receivers that re-digitize analog inputs?  Thanks for your help on this.

post #471 of 1884
Still cannot get ARC to recognize my receiver mad.gif
post #472 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I don't think you understand. Pure Direct which turns off all processing brings back all the peaks nulls etc... from the room. So in pure direct you are hearing the rooms effect on the music because the room's response is not flat. Bass traps are used to do a similar thing that room correction does which is remove the room's effects and flatten the response which is what room correction does. To hear the music the way it was intended you much first flatten the rooms response as much as possible. Then you'll hear the music as it was intended. Without flattening the response of the room you are still hearing the rooms effect on the music.[/quote

You basically repeated everything I said in the post. So what is it exactly that I don't understand?
post #473 of 1884
Audio
post #474 of 1884
Finally upgrading my 13 year old Onkyo TX-SR800, and trying to decide between the 510 and the 710. Are there any differences other than the amps? Does the 510 have enough power to effectively drive a 7.1 system with B&W 683s as mains (does the 710 for that matter)?

Thanks for your help.
post #475 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobAd View Post

Just thought I'd compare the ARC results between the 500 & 710. All other equipment, etc. remained the same. The resultant curves are much smoother with the 710. My impressions - Right out of the box, the 710's soundstage was more defined, high frequency response seemed improved, and the overall sound was more "clear". These improvements were easily recognized. I opted for the 710 to get the stiffer power supply, and transient response also seems improved. To me, the upgrade was worth it.

It looks as if the 710 is correcting beyond 5 khz or am I mistaken?
post #476 of 1884
Hello all,
I am a owner of a MRX 700. I had the same arguments regarding the MRXs DACs as you are discussing. When you purchase an Anthem MRX, you give up the ability to use analog because the MRX digitizes the signal of the analog inputs. HDMI, is the only way to utilize the MRX series. With that said you have to add ARC into the equation. ARC makes up for the lesser DAC that Anthem uses. I could not be happier with the results. I used to use the analog outs on my HI Rez Oppo player that has the latest Sabre DACS. I am now a true believer in the abilities of ARC. I listen to HD tracks from my laptop via HDMI, and it sounds amazing! Good luck with your decision.

Regards
Jeff
post #477 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Hello all,
I am a owner of a MRX 700. I had the same arguments regarding the MRXs DACs as you are discussing. When you purchase an Anthem MRX, you give up the ability to use analog because the MRX digitizes the signal of the analog inputs. HDMI, is the only way to utilize the MRX series. With that said you have to add ARC into the equation. ARC makes up for the lesser DAC that Anthem uses. I could not be happier with the results. I used to use the analog outs on my HI Rez Oppo player that has the latest Sabre DACS. I am now a true believer in the abilities of ARC. I listen to HD tracks from my laptop via HDMI, and it sounds amazing! Good luck with your decision.

Regards
Jeff

I thought on the analog inputs you could choose to run analog straight through or digitize to apply ARC, DSP, etc? Or is this feature only available on Anthem's pre/pros?

I have no experience with the MRX receivers but am considering one to replace my current Anthem AVM20 which allows you to choose how to handle analog inputs. smile.gif
post #478 of 1884
As I understand it even with out ARC the analog inputs are distill digitized.

Regards
Jeff
post #479 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I thought on the analog inputs you could choose to run analog straight through or digitize to apply ARC, DSP, etc? Or is this feature only available on Anthem's pre/pros?

I have no experience with the MRX receivers but am considering one to replace my current Anthem AVM20 which allows you to choose how to handle analog inputs. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

As I understand it even with out ARC the analog inputs are distill digitized.

Regards
Jeff
the x00 series digitalize everything but on the x10 series you can choose strait analog not digitalized and untouch.
post #480 of 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542 View Post

Finally upgrading my 13 year old Onkyo TX-SR800, and trying to decide between the 510 and the 710. Are there any differences other than the amps? Does the 510 have enough power to effectively drive a 7.1 system with B&W 683s as mains (does the 710 for that matter)?

Thanks for your help.
Funny that you should mention it. I just upgraded to a 510 from a tx-sr700 and I love it. I think you will be fine with either. The only difference are more power and different power supply.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide