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Pre amp & amps to complement Wilson Sasha, Mezzo & Duette, stereo & Home Theater - Page 2

post #31 of 41
Thread Starter 

Thanks edorr and Bulldogger. Much appreciated. Can you the Man. Thanks again, Greg

post #32 of 41
Greg, you're welcome; big day is tomorrow right? When you listen to B&W in 2 channels, see if you hear what I hear (close friend has the 802): extended and smooth high, generous bass, and a recessed-sounding midrange (to my ears anyway). Have fun.
post #33 of 41
Thread Starter 

Hi Can,

   Yes, tomorrow is the big day. I am looking forward to it. What do you mean by "recessed sounding midrange"? Thanks again. Best, Greg

post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grhoffman View Post

Hi Can,
   Yes, tomorrow is the big day. I am looking forward to it. What do you mean by "recessed sounding midrange"? Thanks again. Best, Greg

It means the midrange sounds like it should be louder and or fuller, relative to the treble or the bass. So the bass is full and prominent, the treble is sparkling and extended, but the midrange (singer's voice) sounds "recessed," or subdued, or not as loud, *relatively.*

This is with my friend's older 802 (at least 5/6 years old I would think) using Krell HTS and power amp. Newer 802 in a different room with Classe amp (which tends to be warmer than Krell amp but not as extended), the sound may be entirely different. I hope I didn't put ideas into your ears, but do listen for it in comparison to Wilson, with 2 channel music.

B+W is an outstanding company obviously and that's why I bought their ceiling speaker to install in my system. This is a much cheaper speaker (about 1200/pair) and interestingly enough, the sound signature is similar to its big brother: smooth extended high, warm bass, recessed midrange. I like it because the extended high end makes wind noise more prominent and eerie :-).

When you are there, might want to see if they could demo one or two other ultra high end speakers to you too for comparison. Auditioning speakers is a lot of fun!
Edited by cannga - 12/4/13 at 5:48pm
post #35 of 41
Thread Starter 

Hi Can,

   Thank you for your opinions. They are greatly appreciated. This is B & W Group North America's installation so I would be surprised to see other speakers, but you never know. I will let you know how I make out. Regards, Greg

post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post



This is with my friend's older 802 (at least 5/6 years old I would think) using Krell HTS and power amp. Newer 802 in a different room with Classe amp (which tends to be warmer than Krell amp but not as extended), the sound may be entirely different.
How old are the Classe amps? I found the CA-M400 to be warm and rolled off. The newer ones the M600 or whater the model are a lot more extended to my ears. I compared the M600 against the Mcintosh MC452 stereo amp with Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage. Mcintosh has changed it's house sound as well. The MC452 is quite a bargain considering how well it did against Classe's newest monoblocks.
post #37 of 41
Thread Starter 

Hi Bulldog,

   Thanks for the input on the McIntosh. The Classe' 600 sounded very good but then again I'm a relative novice.

post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grhoffman View Post

Hi Bulldog,
   Thanks for the input on the McIntosh. The Classe' 600 sounded very good but then again I'm a relative novice.
THe Classe 600 are very good. They are better than the MC452 but if you demo them in the same system but the margin is not large. You'll to step up to the Mcitosh MC601s to better or equal,depending on preference the Classe CA-600s. Both monoblocks are nearly double the price of the stereo amp, MC452, however and we may be talking about only a 10% improvement. I will not leave a 10% improvement on the table so I go for the monoblocks. The MC452 however will test how much you really want either pair of monoblocks.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

How old are the Classe amps? I found the CA-M400 to be warm and rolled off. The newer ones the M600 or whater the model are a lot more extended to my ears. I compared the M600 against the Mcintosh MC452 stereo amp with Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage. Mcintosh has changed it's house sound as well. The MC452 is quite a bargain considering how well it did against Classe's newest monoblocks.

BD, regarding Classe, great ears hear alike :-). Your description is also to me the "house sound" of Classe: warm on top and prominent mid bass. Interestingly, I have both Classe DR10 and CA400, built many years apart and yet this house sound applies to both amps, especially in comparison with Krell for example. When I spoke to David Reich (for those who don't know premier audio engineer formerly of Classe and now with Theta), he told me he wasn't the designer of the CA 400, he had left by that time I assume, and yet the house sound stays the same.

For anyone interested, Krell versus Classe, the sound is different, not better one vs. the other. As always, the key is system matching, in particular amp to speaker. I would think for example Classe is a great match for B&W, better than say, Krell. I keep both lines of amps and switch back and forth for fun, education, and experiments, and depending on my taste preference for the month. It's like going to a Chinese restaurant; sometimes I ordered noodle, sometimes rice :-). Apple and orange.
post #40 of 41

Sorry I am a bit late to this thread and only just joined, but I thought I would chime in as I have built a system using Sasha W/P, Mezzo (centre), and Duettes (rear). I am a big 2-channel fan, but the AV side is also important, so I started as follows:

 

Wilsons as above

Velodyne DD18+

Oppo 105

Krell 1200U processor

Krell 3250 and 2250 amps

Wadia iPod dock

 

Full Isotek mains loom with Titan and Multilink

Full MIT Matrix cable loom.

 

An 80" Sharp TV (no projector currently).

 

To cut a very long story short, I was very underwhelmed - using the 105 for 2-channel duty was ok but not great, and the Wilsons didn't seem to be singing at all.

 

So I did the following after giving a lot a thought of what I was trying to achieve. First and foremost, the plan to have one do-it-all system just wasn't going to work, so I acquired a Krell 525 CD, 222 Preamp and re-wired the fronts for Theatre Throughput mode. Now we were talking - CD performance transformed. But there was still a problem - the Wilsons were really not singing the way they did during my extensive demonstrations. 

 

Unfortunately my listening room does not permit physically large amps, so I thought I would try a very cost effective upgrade route and sourced another pair of 2250 Krell amps. I then bridged two of the channels on the existing 3250, and bridged both the new 2250 amps - front/left/centre were now getting bridged Krell power (1000W). The existing 2250 still powers the Duettes.

 

To say this made a difference is really the understatement of the year - the transformation of the Wilsons was staggering (for a relatively small outlay in the scheme of the total cost) - the authority and tightness of the bass at lower levels was now really rewarding, and the sound is just so much more effortless at normal volumes. 

 

One would certainly argue that the Wilsons require better amplification, but until my listening room changes, I am really happy with how this has worked out. Took a long time to get there, but really pleased with the results, and loving the Wilson experience (which was why I am posting on this thread).

 

Moral of the story, you can never throw too much power at Wilsons! 

post #41 of 41

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