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Man of Steel 3D/2D (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 4

post #91 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, you got the same 3D collectors edition I posted the pic of for $25? I found it on their website for $3 more than I paid from Amazon.

Yes, I got mine from the local Walmart store in the morning. After salestax it was $26+. I ended up getting both Target Exclusive contents and the Collector's Edition. Just love the "S" metal casing even Target's version is better for the money. Don't really care about the 3D.
post #92 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

Yes, I got mine from the local Walmart store in the morning. After salestax it was $26+. I ended up getting both Target Exclusive contents and the Collector's Edition. Just love the "S" metal casing even Target's version is better for the money. Don't really care about the 3D.



You got a good deal, that same box set is on Walmart's website for $42.96 and I paid $39.99 from Amazon and it is now $5 more.
post #93 of 187
I'd add another positive review for this film. Watched it last night and was thoroughly impressed. Both the picture and sound was top notch. The use of surrounds was very well implemented without being overdone. Bass was plentiful throughout (even though the low end could have used a little more attention as usual), with a few nice sweeps. The only thing I can really nitpick were a couple instances at the end where some of the plane crashes thinned out and lost some realism. Other than that it was a stellar soundtrack.

I personally liked the story line. I share sentiments with an earlier poster on here that wasn't fond of the "dorky" Clark Kent persona. I also liked the back story quite a bit that allowed the plot to unfold a bit more fluidly. The movie had good pacing without falling into long diatribes of useless filler.

I'm glad I purchased this and will be re watching in the near future.
post #94 of 187
What a curious films this is.

I decided to go watch it via streaming while my disc comes through the mail.

Man of Steel is pretty much everything that Ralph says in his "take" on the film and more. It seems to me that the writers and others did a bit of a Tarantino here by leveraging things that impressed them from other films. All of the Krypton opening seems to have 'touches' of Avatar, the new Star Trek reboot, Matrix, and perhaps Transformers rolled into one reasonably managed fast cut preface and first act. In some ways, I found this part of the movie the most interesting and it would candidly have made a better topic for an entire movie.

As I stated in a previous post, I tend to appreciate some facets of super hero type movies that give a bit more depth to the characters and like Noir movies, we see what they are made of for better or worse. Man of Steel has some of these characteristics as does just a handful of other super hero type movies.

As Ralph stated in a more delicate way - the movie is very uneven and I feel to a point of being a bit flawed. I still enjoyed the movie very much and was glad I watched it and will have it in my library. I'll hold my opinion of course on the technical facets of video and audio.

It really is tough to try to add psychological facets to a movie for texture and depth and keep a movie moving. In the case of this movie, there is a lot of woven exposition that helps the movie continue forward. Some may like this approach and some might feel slightly cheated (show me don't tell me as it were). I think the use of exposition by the characters themselves was sufficient given the length of the movie. It serves well as a decent vehicle. What was interesting, is (spoiler in some respects) is we find Zod is a victim of sorts in that he is the sum of the parts handed to him genetically. The latter is what separates this character from the likes of a Cameron villain (Titanic, Avatar etc.) who are so beyond 2D it insults the audience and is a cheap ploy to make one cheer for the 'hero.' I am glad the addition was made to explain some of Zod's behavior though it was perhaps a throw-away facet.

Spoiler Alert - given the choice to bring in more depth and psychological issues for our hero, he has to make some really tough choices at the end of the movie that shows that we often have to make choices, decisions and such that also can darken our hearts when we "do the right thing."

I'll gladly sit in the minority and put this film along with Superman Returns as my two favourite of the Superman movies.

Last note - If I had to plan out a set of films based on Man of Steel, they might have gone like this -

1) Entire movie about Krypton up to its demise.
2) Clark growing up and his struggles and lessons learned until he leaves Smallville
3) Superman being judged by mankind based on his deeds and inability of humans to control him and the new battle with Zod that cements a "trust" relationship between Earth and its alien guest.
post #95 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

The only thing I can really nitpick were a couple instances at the end where some of the plane crashes thinned out and lost some realism. .


Agreed. I found the same thing, but I noticed it in other various parts of the track as well. The audio supported the film well in general, but there were a number of moments where the attention to detail got a bit lazy amidst all the action where certain moments did not hit with the audio conviction they should have to my ears as far as the low end goes. I noticed this mostly in the opening ~20 minutes or so, but there were still various moments like the one you mention where the audio, low end in particular, just thinned out and was not as strong as it should have been to give full impact. Considering how many potential spots there were for bass considering how much action there was, I can see how this could happen, but it did feel a bit lazy at times from a sound design standpoint.

The other issue is the lacking extension which really hurt a lot of the scenes in this film where things just felt cut short and chopped off. Many of these moments were begging for better extension which would have really drove these scenes home with full impact. This track drops off around 30hz and I thought this hurt the experience overall. Still a fun low end ride, but if these two issues had not been present it would have been considerably better no doubt. My Buttkickers were not challenged to hard which is always a great indication of lacking extension.

Audio otherwise and overall though was great I thought and I enjoyed it. Dialog, surround use, dynamics were all excellent overall IMO.

Not a big fan of the visual style of this one with a very gritty type look, but that is more personal preference as this was obviously artistic choice.

I had mixed emotions on the film itself the more I think about it. I liked the more serious tone, but there was just something very unconvincing and generic about the tone of the film in general. Not sure if it was the writing exactly or the actors were just bored, or what as I could never quite put my finger on it which maybe another watch will help if I ever spin it again.

Overall, I would have preferred to rent this as it was not my best blind buy and one viewing would have been enough for me.
post #96 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Storywise, it wasn't quite as good/deep as i'd hoped. i loved what they showed of Krypton and the situation happening there, but I felt that much of the background story of Clark's upbringing fell flat. It didn't really have much impact for me. The 70's Richard Donner film had a hundred times the impact in the single scene of toddler Kal El lifting the truck to save Pa Kent from getting his legs crushed. Nothing in the Snyder version stood out like that scene did in the 70's film.

The action and effects were fantastic though, as expected from a Zack Snyder film. The man knows how to craft an action scene and make them gorgeous to behold. As much flack as Sucker Punch gets for being a bad film, it is absolutely beautiful, even breath-taking in some scenes. Man of Steel almost reaches Sucker Punch levels of flair at times.

The vast majority of my issues with this film, stem from the writing/script and not at all from Snyder's direction, which I feel is one of the best in the industry. The man has undeniable talent. I just hope that next time, he's given a superior script to work from. (i think I'm over David Goyer's screenplays. he had some good stuff in the 90's, particularly the 1st two Blade films [the second of which was backed up by Guillermo del Toro's incredible filmaking skills] but lately i feel he's been more miss than hit. Man of Steel wasn't terrible as scripts/stories go, but it could have been a LOT better)
After finally getting around to watching this, I'd have to say that the quoted post above sums up my thoughts on it pretty well.

I rented it first because I'd heard so many differing opinions on the movie and I'm still undecided on a purchase. The audio was decent (although being a basshead, I would have preferred lower frequency extension). The visuals and acting were good (one of the first superhero movies I can think of that does a decent job of depicting battles between beings with super speed and strength). But as the post above states, the script/screenplay just wasn't very memorable.


Max
post #97 of 187
Gotta say the video here is terrible. Some scenes are giving my expendables 2 blu ray a run for its money in atrociously bad noise. I can't believe in this day and age we have to deal with this. I knew this was gonna happen when I saw the movie in theaters.

The audio is freaken unbelievable thought. my only complain is that the subwoofer isn't getting the workout i hoped for, and isn't used in places I though it should be. 

Bought the limited Edition S version, if it wasn't for the video quality, it would be a great disc. 

Note: I'm viewing on a viewsonic pro8100 120" screen.
post #98 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyD360 View Post

Given that Jor-El was wearing the same suit (minus cape) and Zod too, I think it was just a standard bodysuit for Krypton, under the armor.

Jor-El? Clearly I've never read the comics, I thought his name was Joel, pronounced Joe-El, but is now clicking that El is the last name smile.gif *facepalm
post #99 of 187
Ralph - just watched the movie (it's a rare treat these days when I have the house to myself without the 6 year old and 19 month old running around!). Really enjoyed the movie overall, but agree with Toe and several others that disagree with your assessment and instead found the bass in particular to be quite lacking. At least for those of us with disgusting amounts of subwoofage that is. I was terribly disappointed as I thought from the cuts I had seen that this could have been up there in terms of bass with some of the top bass movies. I wanted to "feel" the buildings collapse as if I was there, and not watching it on a TV, but the impact just wasn't what I thought it could have been.

I'm fairly certain the movie was filtered at twenty, if not 30Hz. Which might be enough for some, just not me! tongue.gif
post #100 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post



Overall, I would have preferred to rent this as it was not my best blind buy and one viewing would have been enough for me.

Same here. But renting a bluray these days is becoming impossible, at least in the suburbs of Toronto. I used to go to Blockbuster or Rogers to rent, now one is bankrupt and the other has rid itself of that aspect of their business (they're a cable company so want you to "rent" it from their compressed cable lines!).
post #101 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman2 View Post

Gotta say the video here is terrible. Some scenes are giving my expendables 2 blu ray a run for its money in atrociously bad noise. I can't believe in this day and age we have to deal with this. I knew this was gonna happen when I saw the movie in theaters.

The audio is freaken unbelievable thought. my only complain is that the subwoofer isn't getting the workout i hoped for, and isn't used in places I though it should be. 

Bought the limited Edition S version, if it wasn't for the video quality, it would be a great disc. 

Note: I'm viewing on a viewsonic pro8100 120" screen.



Did you watch in 2D or 3D?
post #102 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Same here. But renting a bluray these days is becoming impossible, at least in the suburbs of Toronto. I used to go to Blockbuster or Rogers to rent, now one is bankrupt and the other has rid itself of that aspect of their business (they're a cable company so want you to "rent" it from their compressed cable lines!).



Hi, is there Red box in Canada? How about Vudu? I find the HDX is pretty high in quality, for a streaming video anyway. Not BD quality but definitely decent.
post #103 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Same here. But renting a bluray these days is becoming impossible, at least in the suburbs of Toronto. I used to go to Blockbuster or Rogers to rent, now one is bankrupt and the other has rid itself of that aspect of their business (they're a cable company so want you to "rent" it from their compressed cable lines!).

I hear ya. Renting is not always an option in certain scenarios.
post #104 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Ralph - just watched the movie (it's a rare treat these days when I have the house to myself without the 6 year old and 19 month old running around!). Really enjoyed the movie overall, but agree with Toe and several others that disagree with your assessment and instead found the bass in particular to be quite lacking. At least for those of us with disgusting amounts of subwoofage that is. I was terribly disappointed as I thought from the cuts I had seen that this could have been up there in terms of bass with some of the top bass movies. I wanted to "feel" the buildings collapse as if I was there, and not watching it on a TV, but the impact just wasn't what I thought it could have been.

I'm fairly certain the movie was filtered at twenty, if not 30Hz. Which might be enough for some, just not me! tongue.gif

Greetings,

Thanks for chiming in with your impressions Steve. I didn't find the bass to be lacking especially when looking at the audio presentation as a whole. I don't dispute the lack of ultra low frequency content during certain sequences but again I didn't find that it impacted the balance of the mix.

I am considering adding a ULF rating to my reviews especially for those interested in that aspect. If I do it will be as an informational add on and not as part of the overall rating. I am thinking of a rating scale of 0 to 3. Hmmmm....wink.gif


Regards,
post #105 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

Thanks for chiming in with your impressions Steve. I didn't find the bass to be lacking especially when looking at the audio presentation as a whole. I don't dispute the lack of ultra low frequency content during certain sequences but again I didn't find that it impacted the balance of the mix.

I am considering adding a ULF rating to my reviews especially for those interested in that aspect. If I do it will be as an informational add on and not as part of the overall rating. I am thinking of a rating scale of 0 to 3. Hmmmm....wink.gif


Regards,



Ralph I'm assuming the hmmm means you'd consider our opinions about adding a ULF rating to your reviews. I would like that myself, as long as.... It did not cause you more backlash from people that didn't think your rating of x was appropriate wink.gif
Just my thoughts smile.gif
post #106 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post


I am considering adding a ULF rating to my reviews especially for those interested in that aspect. If I do it will be as an informational add on and not as part of the overall rating. I am thinking of a rating scale of 0 to 3. Hmmmm....wink.gif


Regards,

That be awesome, but what is considered ULF, anythinfb below 20hz?
post #107 of 187
I watched Man of Steel on the day it was released and liked it but watched it again this evening and enjoyed it even more the 2nd time around. The audio was pretty spectacular on my end and the video was good, too. This blu-ray package definitely has some repeated viewing value for me.

Thanks for the review, Ralph! smile.gif
post #108 of 187
Just watched it. I really liked it overall. There were a few unnecessary cheesy lines in it, but meh. The action was insane almost to the point of being exhausting at times, but the pounding audio kept me in the game. I was racking my brains trying to think of where I saw Superman's character from and then I realized he had a small part in one of my favourite movies - The Count of Monte Cristo with Jim Caviezel and Guy Pearce. Holy crap he's gotten significantly more buff since then. Definitely more than a renter - I'm gonna be watching this at least a few more times. Buy it!

I'm going to edit after seeing Film's comment as well and say that I thought the video was fantastic. Super sharp overall and yes there was grain (even more so for me as I have my Darbee up to 60% HD for those who have one) but it did not distract whatsoever.

Note: I'm viewing on an Optoma HD3300 with a 138" scope screen. wink.gif
Edited by blastermaster - 11/15/13 at 12:29am
post #109 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman2 View Post

Gotta say the video here is terrible. Some scenes are giving my expendables 2 blu ray a run for its money in atrociously bad noise. I can't believe in this day and age we have to deal with this. I knew this was gonna happen when I saw the movie in theaters.

The audio is freaken unbelievable thought. my only complain is that the subwoofer isn't getting the workout i hoped for, and isn't used in places I though it should be. 

Bought the limited Edition S version, if it wasn't for the video quality, it would be a great disc. 

Note: I'm viewing on a viewsonic pro8100 120" screen.

I seriously hope you are kidding, what you are seeing is called grain and it is not noise, it is an intended part of the image by the film makers. You don't have to like it, but don't expect it to go away as it isn't some mistake or error.

As for the film it is up there with my favorite films so far this year and is one of the two best big budget films of the year so far (tied with Star Trek Into Darkness). I also really liked the use of 3d in the film which given what I had heard I was not expecting. Though I can see this film style and low to medium depth coupled with he dimness of cinemas could lead to an underwhelming 3d experience.
post #110 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

Thanks for chiming in with your impressions Steve. I didn't find the bass to be lacking especially when looking at the audio presentation as a whole. I don't dispute the lack of ultra low frequency content during certain sequences but again I didn't find that it impacted the balance of the mix.

I am considering adding a ULF rating to my reviews especially for those interested in that aspect. If I do it will be as an informational add on and not as part of the overall rating. I am thinking of a rating scale of 0 to 3. Hmmmm....wink.gif


Regards,



Ralph your indeed the bigger man ! The addition of ULF wont hurt anything and may help those that I guess will buy or rent or even stay away depending on this ? I'm not entirely sure how this will help overall as it doesn't effect the balance of the mix one way or the other , don't get me wrong I love me some ULF but its no more important than the rest of the bass spectrum . I'm glad to see you may keep it separate as to not hamper with what you've already fine tuned to the tee IMO. This will still not effect what's been decided by the studio's and or mixers (filtering will remain) but be warned I have tweeters that extend to 30hz and will want that added as well biggrin.gif

Back on topic I'm looking forward to MOS this weekend and will post back after viewing smile.gif
post #111 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

Thanks for chiming in with your impressions Steve. I didn't find the bass to be lacking especially when looking at the audio presentation as a whole. I don't dispute the lack of ultra low frequency content during certain sequences but again I didn't find that it impacted the balance of the mix.

I am considering adding a ULF rating to my reviews especially for those interested in that aspect. If I do it will be as an informational add on and not as part of the overall rating. I am thinking of a rating scale of 0 to 3. Hmmmm....wink.gif


Regards,



Ralph your indeed the bigger man ! The addition of ULF wont hurt anything and may help those that I guess will buy or rent or even stay away depending on this ? I'm not entirely sure how this will help overall as it doesn't effect the balance of the mix one way or the other , don't get me wrong I love me some ULF but its no more important than the rest of the bass spectrum . I'm glad to see you may keep it separate as to not hamper with what you've already fine tuned to the tee IMO. This will still not effect what's been decided by the studio's and or mixers (filtering will remain)
About the bolded line, the more publicity an issue gets, the better the chance that the industry insiders will realize that there are customers who prefer better low frequency extension.
Quote:
but be warned I have tweeters that extend to 30hz and will want that added as well biggrin.gif
LOL, only if you're a bat. biggrin.gif


Max
post #112 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

I seriously hope you are kidding, what you are seeing is called grain and it is not noise, it is an intended part of the image by the film makers. You don't have to like it, but don't expect it to go away as it isn't some mistake or error.

First of all, I LOVE grain if it's a nice, fine layer that gives it the look of film. But grain *can* be too heavy at times and in some of those instances it *may* appear to be "noise." For example, have you ever seen "28 Days Later?" The grain is so heavy in that movie that you can hardly see any details, especially in nighttime scenes. Was that intended by the film maker? I believe it was the director's intent (I've seen heavy grain in many films that are in the horror genre). But even though it was the director's intent, it was still extremely UGLY and robbed the viewer of clarity, details, and even depth.

Regarding Man of Steel, I found the grain to be quite heavy at times, giving it a very *gritty* look! And in several instances it looked like video noise. As I stated in the beginning, I love a fine layer of grain that gives it a "cinematic" look and actually enhances details. But when grain becomes too heavy it is anything but eye candy. This has been observed by several members in Man of Steel and you can't fault us for not liking it simply because "it's the director's intent."

I'll take this opportunity to thank Ralph for an excellent review. And let me say that I was mesmerized by the audio mix. Hans Zimmer's musical score was perfect; the LFE was good enough to shake my walls and send waves of energy over me at times; the action in the surrounds was amazing (with precision and clarity), and the dialogue was crisp.
post #113 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

First of all, I LOVE grain if it's a nice, fine layer that gives it the look of film. But grain *can* be too heavy at times and in some of those instances it *may* appear to be "noise." For example, have you ever seen "28 Days Later?" The grain is so heavy in that movie that you can hardly see any details, especially in nighttime scenes. Was that intended by the film maker? I believe it was the director's intent (I've seen heavy grain in many films that are in the horror genre). But even though it was the director's intent, it was still extremely UGLY and robbed the viewer of clarity, details, and even depth.

Regarding Man of Steel, I found the grain to be quite heavy at times, giving it a very *gritty* look! And in several instances it looked like video noise. As I stated in the beginning, I love a fine layer of grain that gives it a "cinematic" look and actually enhances details. But when grain becomes too heavy it is anything but eye candy. This has been observed by several members in Man of Steel and you can't fault us for not liking it simply because "it's the director's intent."

I'll take this opportunity to thank Ralph for an excellent review. And let me say that I was mesmerized by the audio mix. Hans Zimmer's musical score was perfect; the LFE was good enough to shake my walls and send waves of energy over me at times; the action in the surrounds was amazing (with precision and clarity), and the dialogue was crisp.

What one finds to be to heavy is just subjective, some find any grain offensive and want it gone for example. Two films with much heavier grain throughout is War of the Worlds and Minority Report. You will find had they not wanted the grain they would have applied DNR (done properly of course), the film makers clearly did want it though. Had they wanted a grain free image especially with this kind of budget they would have had a grain free image. I'm not faulting you or anyone else for not liking it, I would fault the logic for saying the transfer should not be as it is though as for better and/or worse I think faithful transfer is what we should demand and get. smile.gif
Edited by FilmReverie - 11/15/13 at 2:24pm
post #114 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

What one finds to be to heavy is just subjective, some find any grain offensive and want it gone for example. Two films with much heavier grain throughout is War of the Worlds and Minority Report. You will find had they not wanted the grain they would have applied DNR (done properly of course), the film makers clearly did want it though. Had they wanted a grain free image especially with this kind of budget they would have had a grain free image. I'm not faulting you or anyone else for not liking it, I would fault the logic for saying the transfer should not be as it is though as for better and/or worse I think faithful transfer is what we should demand and get. smile.gif

I agree with you that one's view of grain can be subjective, but there comes a point where all should be able to agree that it's "too heavy." Again, have you seen 28 Days Later?" There are night scenes in that Blu-ray where you can hardly discern any details and the black levels are horrendous with zero shadow details. Add to that little or no depth and you have to ask the question, "What is the purpose of having so much grain?" It may be the "director's intent" (in other words, a "faithful transfer"), but what's in it for us, the viewer? And quite frankly, in those same scenes the grain is so heavy it really does look like video noise, with shimmering artifacts floating across the screen. I think when it gets to that point all should be able to say "Whoa, that's too much grain." At least in War of the Worlds and Minority Report you could still see details and appreciate *some* clarity and depth.
post #115 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I agree with you that one's view of grain can be subjective, but there comes a point where all should be able to agree that it's "too heavy." Again, have you seen 28 Days Later?" There are night scenes in that Blu-ray where you can hardly discern any details and the black levels are horrendous with zero shadow details. Add to that little or no depth and you have to ask the question, "What is the purpose of having so much grain?" It may be the "director's intent" (in other words, a "faithful transfer"), but what's in it for us, the viewer? And quite frankly, in those same scenes the grain is so heavy it really does look like video noise, with shimmering artifacts floating across the screen. I think when it gets to that point all should be able to say "Whoa, that's too much grain." At least in War of the Worlds and Minority Report you could still see details and appreciate *some* clarity and depth.

What we get is the film as it was intended to be seen. In the case of 28 days later only the final scene was shoot on film the rest was shoot with SD cameras, so what you are seeing is not grain.
post #116 of 187
dude, its not too much grain. how close are you sitting to your IMAX home screen that you can measure the grain size?
post #117 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

What we get is the film as it was intended to be seen. In the case of 28 days later only the final scene was shoot on film the rest was shoot with SD cameras, so what you are seeing is not grain.

That's right...the director CHOSE to use cheap Canon handheld cameras with a resolution equivalent to SD. I read that he also ran the image through filters to make it look even more grainy. Most definitely what he wanted us to see. But there are two different kinds of people who view movies: 1) People who want to see exactly what the director wants us to see, good or bad (i.e. faithful to the theatrical version); 2) People who want to see a good-looking image (i.e. good details, depth, clarity, etc.). I fall into the 2nd class; you obviously fall into the 1st.
post #118 of 187
Watched it in 2D.

I call too much grain, noise..

The film isn't pretty to look at, and I want reference quality images when watching a movie on my projector. IMHO.

Compare this presentation to say avengers, or the pirate films, and tell me which one you'd rather watch. Shaky cam grainy or actual clear steady pristine images? 
Edited by Superman2 - 11/16/13 at 6:21am
post #119 of 187
ts a great movie and its great to look at,
i'd rather watch an awesome 16mm in mono than waste my time on 11.11 "pristine" shiny 8K garbage.
post #120 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post

ts a great movie and its great to look at,
i'd rather watch an awesome 16mm in mono than waste my time on 11.11 "pristine" shiny 8K garbage.
Ha, ok. Glad you like'd it. I'll wait for the 8k atmos edition garbage stuff.
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