or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Help me choose please
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Help me choose please

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 

I've done about all the reading I can do... now I need help. I am completely starting from scratch with a 5 speaker budget of around $3,000. I already know I'm getting a Denon X4000 AVR, and a ryhtmik FV15HP sub. I thought I had it all figured out with Definitive technology towers, until forum members started pointing out I'd be wasting money on the subs in the BP8060ST towers since I am already getting a dedicated sub. 

I want to have mains that still have 'kick' and good mid-bass, as I'll be leaving the sub crossed below ~80hz for the real heavy deep bass only. What really drew me to the Def Techs were their capability for bipole sound with speakers in the front and back, as well as powered subs for solid mid-bass. I read every review there is and there were no dissapointments in these features. I know I should go listen for myself but I'm currently in the desert overseas and I'd REALLY like to know what I want before I get back. 

Please help me decide on some high efficiency, good mid/high range speakers!!!

post #2 of 43
fwiw, you could try the svs ultra speakers in your home for 45 days and free shipping both ways if you don't like.
and by the way thanks for your service in the military. god bless
post #3 of 43
The reason people don't recommend those towers with built in subs, is a dedicated subwoofer will do a much better job with bass, and the money spent on those full range towers is better spent on a nicer sub/speakers. Going with bookshelf speakers and good subs will get you the same performance and offer much better value. That is an excellent receiver choice, and one of the best subs in it's price range. Depending on your room however I might consider going with a pair of Power Sound Audio XV15s, you will get a much more even bass response and a little better output. If you have plans of a second FV15HP, then by all means stick with it cool.gif

As for speakers, this depends on your room size. If you are looking for high efficiency speakers with great dynamics, you should look into theater speakers. Something like the Pi Three would be an excellent choice for your LCR. These are very accurate and will give you great dynamics and high output. Three of these woud run you $2550, and your Rythmik will complement them very nicely. For surrounds, I would consider a pair of JBL 8320. They are THX certified and will be able to keep up with the LCR nicely.
post #4 of 43
Thread Starter 

The best sensitivity rating I can see in anything affordable so far is Klipsch. Everything I love at from JBL and Paradigm and other high end places don't have anything above 95db reference. Is Klipsch the way to go?

post #5 of 43
If JBL is something you like, this is probably what you want to aim for: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=31&MID=1

Three JBL 3677 and a pair of 8320.
post #6 of 43
It has been stated, by those who seem to be in the know...that Klipsch inflates their sensitivity rating...not that they are the only Speaker Company that fibs alittle about their specs, but...
post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

The best sensitivity rating I can see in anything affordable so far is Klipsch. Everything I love at from JBL and Paradigm and other high end places don't have anything above 95db reference. Is Klipsch the way to go?

Klipsch overstates their sensitivity ratings. They will be a bit more sensitive than most speakers though. So you already have the sub and want some speakers? Are you looking for the front stage speakers or surrounds as well? How large can the speakers be? What is your budget?
post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Klipsch overstates their sensitivity ratings. They will be a bit more sensitive than most speakers though. So you already have the sub and want some speakers? Are you looking for the front stage speakers or surrounds as well? How large can the speakers be? What is your budget?

Maybe give the first post a read tongue.gif

5 speakers for $3000, he definitely has a lot of options and seems to want good dynamics.
post #9 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post


Klipsch overstates their sensitivity ratings. They will be a bit more sensitive than most speakers though. So you already have the sub and want some speakers? Are you looking for the front stage speakers or surrounds as well? How large can the speakers be? What is your budget?

I need all 5 speakers. Size doesn't matter. Bachelor baby! My main focus is a very dynamic speaker from 80hz up, with good mid-bass you can feel. The subwoofers should take care of the rumble but sometimes that higher 120hz bass string buzzing needs to put the woofers on my front mains to work. Other than that, a clean tweeter and high efficiency, looking for something above 95 (who isn't lying about it) Budget it around 3K for 5 speakers. Surrounds CAN be the same as fronts but if they aren't I'd like them to be di/bi pole for my setup. Hope this helps.... thanks a  bunch!

post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

The best sensitivity rating I can see in anything affordable so far is Klipsch.
As others have said, that's because Klipsch consistently overstate their sensitivity ratings. Not by a little bit either:

Quote:
Everything I love at from JBL and Paradigm and other high end places don't have anything above 95db reference. Is Klipsch the way to go?
No. I wouldn't reward dishonesty with my hard earned. If you're after genuine high sensitivity and dynamics, take a serious look at Pi Speakers (mentioned above by Transmaniacon), Gedlee and JTR Speakers.
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Klipsch overstates their sensitivity ratings. They will be a bit more sensitive than most speakers though.
They would only be more sensitive in the highs, where the horn loading of the tweeter kicks in, and then only if they didn't pad the tweeters down. With respect to the woofers they're no more sensitive than average. They use the same direct radiating woofer technology that everyone else does, so the results cannot be different.

Rule #1 of Loudspeaker Design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. True high sensitivity speakers do exist, but the trade off for high sensitivity is less low frequency extension, unless the driver and/or cabinet is very large. Klipsch products have no higher sensitivity than other products with the same driver complement and similar cabinet size. The only Klipsch products which are true high sensitivity designs are the heritage line, KHorn, LaScala, Heresy, Cornwall, etc., and the cinema line. In strict adherence to the laws of acoustics they use big drivers loaded into big cabinets.
post #12 of 43
On page 2 of the audio classifieds section here on this site, there are 3 JBL cinema speakers for sale at a great price. $1399 for 3. no affiliation. Perhaps, worth a look.
post #13 of 43
Thread Starter 

^ Thanks, as for JTR Noesis.... my interest is peaking, but I can't seem to find a good website about them, their official site claims to be down :(

post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Depending on your room however I might consider going with a pair of Power Sound Audio XV15s, you will get a much more even bass response and a little better output.
.

I'm thinking no, on this point. Unless co-located (and then it's still doubtful) two XV15s won't have more output than a single FV15HP, nor will they extend as deep. The only benefit two XV15s would have is the benefit two subs have versus one for room modes if they are an issue.
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

^ Thanks, as for JTR Noesis.... my interest is peaking, but I can't seem to find a good website about them, their official site claims to be down frown.gif

Try the link in my post above. It worked OK just now.
post #16 of 43
NHT. Best, most cost-efficient speakers I've heard.
post #17 of 43
You said "high efficiency, good mid/high range speakers!!!"

This speaker is 94db efficient and $1500 per pair. May be you can get some discount as package deal.

From Stereo Times. http://www.stereotimes.com/post/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-loudspeaker

"it would be difficult for any speaker to equal the mid-bass articulation and tonality of the Grand Tetons and most speakers, even some highly touted models, don't even come close."

"Wavetouch Grand Teton speakers are superb, highly resolving monitors that sound and perform better than any other speakers I've had in my home or that I've experienced in other venues."

"There may be much more expensive speakers that can compete with the Wavetouch Grand Tetons, but I would estimate that one would need to start the search at about $20,000 and escalate from there."

You can integrate the world class 2ch and home theater set up in 1 system.
post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepbass9 View Post

This speaker is 94db efficient and $1500 per pair. May be you can get some discount as package deal.
From Stereo Times. http://www.stereotimes.com/post/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-loudspeaker
Sorry, but that's pure unadulterated BS, the kind of stuff that we acoustical engineers chuckle about when looking at the silly things that people will believe. rolleyes.gif
The claims made for those are about as truthful as those made for these doo-dads:
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustic-art/acoustic-art-system/
post #19 of 43
I have these speakers for my home theater. I completely agree with the reviewer. I know my HT sounds great with these speakers. I have taken pleasure in doing HT since 1989 seriously and I have had many speakers such as NHT, Spendor 7/1, Avalon Eclipse, Merlin, Canton, Definitive, Vandersteen, etc. These GT speakers are much better than every thing I had. As the reviewer said, "even some highly touted models, don't even come close." I agree!

I went to Newport Beach audio show few months ago. I was disappointed when I heard the JVC/Victor HT booth (probably $200k set up?) The sound was vague. The voice was unclear. Sound stage was muddy. No dynamic sound but booming bass. My HT sounds much better than their systems considering their mediocrity in tight bass, clear voice at lower volume, transparent sound stage, naturalness, realistic localization of noise, unstrained loudness, you name it. I haven't witnessed the maximum volume level of my HT setup yet, demonstrating the horn speaker's true loudness! I don't want to have a hearing disability, but the volume goes up limitlessly. And I don't mean the booming bass sound goes up but the true mid-range human voice. It’s not like the shouty and rough voices from old compression horns, but silky smooth and uncolored voice. Technology marches on!

I love my sound system because it does great 2ch music too. This is the best sounding system I have put together in the last 24 years. People have to hear it to believe it!

Bill, I know you make respectable speakers and you’ve been working hard for your job. Please don’t discard other people’s hard work. Please respect the reviewers whose work is reliant.
post #20 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


Sorry, but that's pure unadulterated BS, the kind of stuff that we acoustical engineers chuckle about when looking at the silly things that people will believe. rolleyes.gif
The claims made for those are about as truthful as those made for these doo-dads:
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustic-art/acoustic-art-system/

Well thanks to that I'm back to square one :p

I don't want this to turn into a 'what's the best speaker for xxxx.xx price?! Because I know that gets no one anywhere.

Let me lay out my specs once more, and I'll research the crap out of any suggestions. I appreciate any and all input.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Price for LCR and surrounds- under $3k, semi-flexible but not much

Needs- something to fulfill ~80hz and above (anything lower is covered by one [and eventually 2] FV15hp's by Rythmik)

Use- 55% HT 25%gaming 20% music

Room size- Currently in the market but living room WILL be medium size

Volume- I am 26, I'm single, I like loud things... but I don't need 'blow your ears off' loud. I am interested in speakers that do NOT require an amp. If that only means 90db sensitivity.... ok. I'm new to all this and although I would LIKE high efficiency (~100db)... it seems like I'd be paying for more than an amp would cost for top of the line speakers :( 

Bookshelf or floorstanding- I honestly don't know, seems like another one of those endless debates, but FWIW size doesn't matter, only SQ.

Type- I would prefer bipole/dipole based on what I've read, and because I will usually have at least one other person watching movies with me and need a larger sweetspot. Majority of the time it will probably be two people though. If the best speakers meet all the other criteria but not that.... it's not a dealbreaker. 

 

Again thank you all for your expertise, time, and opinions. I shall eagerly await the frenzy :)

 

edit: additional note, I've done a lot of reading about the NHT speakers and everything looks great except sensitivity... 87db?! That would be screaming for an added amp wouldn't it? Would my denon x4000 cover the power for that ? What to do....

Also checked out JTR single 8's.... seems good, what would be recommended as surrounds and center though? 


Edited by usaforce87 - 11/8/13 at 3:34am
post #21 of 43
The only appropriate center speaker for the Single 8s would be another Single 8. A JTR front stage blows your budget pretty much. A pair of speakers that would make good surrounds for some Single 8s would be a pair of these JBL 8320s. They are pretty high powered and are only $500 a pair. That plus some JTR Single 8s doesn't really put you over budget that much, it would only be $3200 not including shipping, and would make for a powerful system. What's also nice is its all 8 ohm, so no need for a separate amplifier.
post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepbass9 View Post

Bill, I know you make respectable speakers and you’ve been working hard for your job. Please don’t discard other people’s hard work. Please respect the reviewers whose work is reliant.
I'm sorry, but the claims made for that speaker utterly defy the laws of acoustics, and not by a small margin. If that 'reviewer' had the slightest clue how speakers work he'd recognize that fact. If his 'review' was worth reading it would include extensive measurements to either prove or disprove the manufacturer's claims. For that matter the manufacturer also should have data on his site to back up his claims, but of course, there is none.
I bet the guys at SB Acoustics who make the woofer get a kick out of his claim of '94 dB for 1-watt input and span the frequency range of 40Hz', since they (and now you) know that its actual capability is 87dB sensitivity with a 60Hz f3, with maximum low frequency output of 96dB. I'm sure they also get a chuckle out of their $55 at retail driver being in a $1k speaker. As for the 'Wavetouch' technology, for it to do what they claim it would have to be close to 1 wavelength in diameter, otherwise sound waves will simply go around it (see: Diffraction). The crossover is 3kHz, 1 wavelength at 3kHz is 3/8 inch, so it might have a slight effect at 3kHz, but only slight, and below about 2.5khz it won't do anything. The 'salad bowls' on the baffle also look like they'll do something to the uninformed, but again, those pesky laws of acoustics mean that they won't do much, other than to hopefully convince someone to spend $1k on what should cost maybe $400.
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepbass9 View Post

This speaker is 94db efficient and $1500 per pair. May be you can get some discount as package deal.
From Stereo Times. http://www.stereotimes.com/post/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-loudspeaker
Sorry, but that's pure unadulterated BS, the kind of stuff that we acoustical engineers chuckle about when looking at the silly things that people will believe. rolleyes.gif
The claims made for those are about as truthful as those made for these doo-dads:
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustic-art/acoustic-art-system/

+1 on both counts. With a bullet! ;-)

Hoffman's Iron Law is so well known, so well understood and so commonly visible that anybody who would claim that tiny speakers with exceptionally high efficiency cold have decent bass extension has to be claiming falsely or very ignorant and unobservant.

The Stereo Time's reviewer unabashed drooling over tubed amps completes the picture. 300As were great tubes in the 1940s and 1950s but by the late 1950s even Western Electric only used them for series regulators in tubed power supplies.
post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepbass9 View Post

This speaker is 94db efficient and $1500 per pair. May be you can get some discount as package deal.
From Stereo Times. http://www.stereotimes.com/post/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-loudspeaker
Sorry, but that's pure unadulterated BS, the kind of stuff that we acoustical engineers chuckle about when looking at the silly things that people will believe. rolleyes.gif
The claims made for those are about as truthful as those made for these doo-dads:
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustic-art/acoustic-art-system/

+1 on both counts. With a bullet! ;-)

Hoffman's Iron Law is so well known, so well understood and so commonly visible that anybody who would claim that tiny speakers with exceptionally high efficiency cold have decent bass extension has to be claiming falsely or very ignorant and unobservant.

The Stereo Time's reviewer unabashed drooling over tubed amps completes the picture. 300As were great tubes in the 1940s and 1950s but by the late 1950s even Western Electric only used them for series regulators in tubed power supplies.

Gents

Surprisingly, there's a dedicated thread for these speakers, if you'd like to go to town there. I don't think the OP's particularly interested. wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484572/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-monitors
post #25 of 43
Somebody posted a CL ad for those speakers several months back (and a corresponding thread on AVS of course). We were all wondering how the tampon on the woofer improved sound quality. biggrin.gif
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

Somebody posted a CL ad for those speakers several months back (and a corresponding thread on AVS of course). We were all wondering how the tampon on the woofer improved sound quality. biggrin.gif
I know there's a joke in there somewhere, but I doubt it would pass community standards. rolleyes.gif
post #27 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Gents

Surprisingly, there's a dedicated thread for these speakers, if you'd like to go to town there. I don't think the OP's particularly interested. wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484572/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-monitors

Yes, please.
Anyone have input on NHT?
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post


Yes, please.
Anyone have input on NHT?

 

I've only owned the Classic Four's. Nice sounding speakers. Pretty hard to use another persons ears for evaluating speakers. As with any speaker you may or may not like them as well as I did. My son liked them better than I did.

post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Gents

Surprisingly, there's a dedicated thread for these speakers, if you'd like to go to town there. I don't think the OP's particularly interested. wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484572/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-monitors

Yes, please.
Anyone have input on NHT?

Legitimate quality speakers. I have a pair of Super Zeroes, Super ones and 2.5is stored away, for when I need something like them. Used them for years.
post #30 of 43
Given the kind of speaker the OP is after, NHT is not the best choice. The highest sensitivity speaker NHT has available, the Classic Three, is stated as 87 db, and when Stereophile tested it it turned out to be only 83 dB. That is 180 degrees from where the OP wants to go.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Help me choose please