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Sony VPL-VW500ES with some pics...it's simply AWESOME! - Page 2

post #31 of 128
Those screen shots are some of the best I've seen ( yeah I know all about screen shots). but regardless they are some of the best!!

Who knows maybe Dallas accidentally found a perfect combo for 12.5 foot large screen with the Sony. I'll take those images on 12.5 wide cine-scope any day.

Joey

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #32 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

He didn't say it had blacks as good or was quieter. He said it put out a better picture according to the PQ parameters he knows about, is sensitive too, and according to his value rating system.

That doesn't mean some projector could not be ranked higher by someone else. Or that a non PQ issue might trump PW such as being quieter to someone sensitive to other than forum noise.

If blacks are of ultimate importance to one and are weighted by one heavily, a JVC could trump the Sony I suppose in someone's opinion. Not in mine.

In Post #1 he said, "and even the blacks I can honestly say
are better on this Sony."

In Post #7 he wrote this, "when it fades to black it is pitch black, I can't see anything, unlike the JVC RS40 although
the blacks were great the fade to black was not black, you can still see the grey on the screen."

In Post #10 he wrote: "low APL scenes are BETTER than the JVC RS40 low APL scenes imo and for those that have witnessed the JVC will be happier with the blacks of this Sony."

It would seem to me that Chris is definitely saying that black performance--black level as well as shadow detail in low light scenes--are superior on this Sony in comparison to the JVC. Of course, this is in comparison to an older model from 2010 with a 50k-rated contrast ratio. As someone (me) who is looking to get either an RS4910 or take the leap up to the Sony this is important to clarify. If indeed the blacks are that impressive (and the auto-iris is not noticeable) the Sony would be my choice.

B.
post #33 of 128
And the Sony has a DI and up to this year's coming models JVC didn't even have a stupid iris let alone an Intelligent one. smile.gif
post #34 of 128
Thread Starter 
In response to some questions I will clarify that the blacks and shadow detail are better on this Sony than they are on the JVC RS40.
The iris I cannot detect at all and I have been very sensitive to every other iris I've seen in the past which is why it's very strange because I'm purposely looking for it and cannot spot it doing its thing regardless of setting.

The fan noise I believe in real world noise is on par with the JVC even though it's rated higher.

For my size screen combo it's truly breathtaking and is really bright even on low lamp mode...something I wouldn't give up now that I've seen it. I was ready to replace my screen with a supposedly better 4K screen but waited to try it first just in case and thankfully I waited.
post #35 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

3-D on this projector is spectacular.

Really! No "ghosting". What's your point of reference -- in other words what other 3D projectors have you owned? Have you checked background scenes for "ghosting" rather that what's in the foreground? The imagery in the background of a scene on a non-DLP projector can often look somewhat undefined and muddled due to light ghosting. Have you watched certain scenes on a 3D DLP and then gone back and looked at the same material with the Sony? I find that sometimes I'm initially impressed with something (honeymoon period) only to discover flaws later (sometimes much later). I'm loath to recommend anything that's relatively expensive because what I'm seeing today may not be what I'm seeing tomorrow. If this Sony is as good with 3D material as a descent DLP then I will seriously consider buying it. It will; however, take some serious convincing to persuade me. BTW -- where does one demo these projectors in the Toronto area (including Kingston, Belleville, Oshawa)?
post #36 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

BTW -- where does one demo these projectors in the Toronto area (including Kingston, Belleville, Oshawa)?

I haven't heard of any store planning to get the VW500ES in yet, however you can see the VW1000 in stores like Brentview Electronics (Toronto) or TruTone Electronics (Mississauga).
post #37 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I haven't heard of any store planning to get the VW500ES in yet, however you can see the VW1000 in stores like Brentview Electronics (Toronto) or TruTone Electronics (Mississauga).

O.K. Thanks.
post #38 of 128
Well looks like the Sony's off my list. Here's a quote from the Trusted Reviews article regarding 3D:

"It now only appears occasionally over distant objects [ghosting], where it seldom draws your eye."

My problem is that I do see the "ghosting" on background material and having seen completely ghost-free images this is a step back and won't cut it for me.
post #39 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Well looks like the Sony's off my list. Here's a quote from the Trusted Reviews article regarding 3D:

"It now only appears occasionally over distant objects [ghosting], where it seldom draws your eye."

My problem is that I do see the "ghosting" on background material and having seen completely ghost-free images this is a step back and won't cut it for me.

Picky bastard! wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #40 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post


If blacks are of ultimate importance to one and are weighted by one heavily, a JVC could trump the Sony I suppose in someone's opinion. Not in mine.
Maybe the JVC II/IA/DI will level the playing field.
post #41 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Well looks like the Sony's off my list. Here's a quote from the Trusted Reviews article regarding 3D:

"It now only appears occasionally over distant objects [ghosting], where it seldom draws your eye."

My problem is that I do see the "ghosting" on background material and having seen completely ghost-free images this is a step back and won't cut it for me.

What projectors remain on your list then?

Most people who are serious about ultimate 2d and 3d quality either run a dual projector set up or else a 5 figure DLP projector. Whats your train of thought?
post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post

What projectors remain on your list then?

Most people who are serious about ultimate 2d and 3d quality either run a dual projector set up or else a 5 figure DLP projector. Whats your train of thought?

Probably a dual setup. The Sim 2 M.150 looks interesting as a one projector solution, but with 4K coming I don't want to put all my eggs into one long term basket. I'm having a computer built with dual hdmi outs and I've had the Optoma boxes for awhile that allow you to send the left eye to one projector and the right to the other. The filters and passive glasses have been gathering dust for a year or so and I think its time for me to stack a couple of projectors (probably DLPs with lens shift since the filters were designed with those in mind) and try this 3D solution to see how it works.
post #43 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Got a different cable and that fixed the sparklies issue.
.
Thanks for the insight Chris into possibly what a higher bitrate ''mastered for 4k'' can do to a hdmi cable [ hidef digest - a new higher bitrate transfer has been provided ] ; sparklies being a common drawback to passing that type of bandwidth over longer distances smile.gif Very curious as to what brand of hdmi cable you had previously and its replacement as do many others no doubt .

Other query is if you were playing Spiderman with a bd player that was capable of playing back the expanded xv ycc colour space on the disc . That could be a factor in the bandwidth or not if it was standard 8bit playback or no ..
post #44 of 128
I don't think xvYcc hasn't any effect on the bandwidth needed or speed. Without geting technical it essentially uses the unused steps in video that are used in PC 0-16 and 235 to 255 to expand the color space.
post #45 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Really! No "ghosting". What's your point of reference -- in other words what other 3D projectors have you owned? Have you checked background scenes for "ghosting" rather that what's in the foreground? The imagery in the background of a scene on a non-DLP projector can often look somewhat undefined and muddled due to light ghosting. Have you watched certain scenes on a 3D DLP and then gone back and looked at the same material with the Sony? I find that sometimes I'm initially impressed with something (honeymoon period) only to discover flaws later (sometimes much later). I'm loath to recommend anything that's relatively expensive because what I'm seeing today may not be what I'm seeing tomorrow. If this Sony is as good with 3D material as a descent DLP then I will seriously consider buying it. It will; however, take some serious convincing to persuade me. BTW -- where does one demo these projectors in the Toronto area (including Kingston, Belleville, Oshawa)?

No, I didn't say ghosting is eliminated, I just said that the 3-D is spectacular. In order to see ghosting you have to really look for it and it's still hard to see although it's there but my JVC RS40 had ghosting that was very noticeable.
If I were you I'd hit one of the stores that carry it and see it in action, I can guarantee one thing, there isn't a better 2-D picture out there even if you spent $100K this PJ is mind blowing and words do it no justice. It blows away the JVC's
not by a margin but by miles.
post #46 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

No, I didn't say ghosting is eliminated, I just said that the 3-D is spectacular. In order to see ghosting you have to really look for it and it's still hard to see although it's there but my JVC RS40 had ghosting that was very noticeable.
If I were you I'd hit one of the stores that carry it and see it in action, I can guarantee one thing, there isn't a better 2-D picture out there even if you spent $100K this PJ is mind blowing and words do it no justice. It blows away the JVC's
not by a margin but by miles.

some might think the 1000es and 1100es is better
post #47 of 128
Thread Starter 
I just put together a nice supercomputer which cost me more than this Sony projector with a 4K video card and let me tell you boy oh boy wow!! Seeing is believing! The picture is to DIE FOR!!
The computer I use for other business I do from home too so the speed was essential and came handy with this PJ.

Intel Xeon E5-2687W Processor
Kingston HyperX Beast 64GB 2133MHz DDR3 RAM
Asus Motherboard
PCI-Express GeForce GTX TITAN Video Card
2X OCZ 1TB Z-Drive PCI Express Solid State Drives
4X WD 4TB 3.5" SATA3 6GB/s 7200RPM Hard Drives


I can't wait for 4K films to arrive on disc hopefully by mid 2015 but until then I will enjoy upconverted Blu-rays which look stellar
and those few 4K clips I found on youtube...

Until then sayonara everyone & happy hunting.
post #48 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

some might think the 1000es and 1100es is better

Yes it is better, by a tad and I have now seen the 1100 and can't really see much of a difference, but my 500 came with a $10K supercomputer biggrin.gif
post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I don't think xvYcc hasn't any effect on the bandwidth needed or speed. Without geting technical it essentially uses the unused steps in video that are used in PC 0-16 and 235 to 255 to expand the color space.

Thanks for the clarification Mark [ understand passing btb and wtw - wasn't up to speed on the bandwidth required smile.gif ] ; curious exactly how much higher the bitrate is on these . Imagine like the older superbit dvd's the bandwidth allocated to the video is at the detriment of any extras wink.gif Certain titles higher bandwidth will surely test a poorer hdmi cable with sparkles . Glad Ive got hdmi1.4 hi speed at the least biggrin.gif
Quote:
This new version is part of Sony's "Mastered in 4K" series, and while the special features have all been dropped, a new high bitrate transfer has been provided. Though not actually presented in 4K, the transfer was sourced from a 4K master and has been optimized for upscaling on Sony's UHDTV displays. According to the package, support for expanded color on xvYCC-compatible TVs and Blu-ray players has also been added.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/8985/spider-man_4k.html
post #50 of 128
I have had a couple of odd experiences with the 3D in this projector.

First off, if I watch anything in 3D, i have to turn 3D brightness down to standard from high, or i get noticeable ghosting. Other than that, it looks excellent. Cinema Film 1 looks perfect to my eyes.

Also, in 3D, reality creation makes a HUGE difference. The pic looks much much softer with it off. And you can set the resolution higher than in 2d, as i can't see any real oversharpening through the glasses. But pause a movie in 3D and toggle RC on and off... it is really cool how much it adds in 3D.

Now, my issue. With 2 3D blu rays (Avatar and Puss in Boots), when i first turned on these movies, i get a flickering on and off image and an message on the projector saying "frequency not supported" or something like that. I rebooted the blu ray player (BDP-S790) and everything works fine after a reboot. But why? Its not the HDMI cable, as i run 4K from my PC without an issue.
post #51 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Thanks for the clarification Mark [ understand passing btb and wtw - wasn't up to speed on the bandwidth required smile.gif ] ; curious exactly how much higher the bitrate is on these . Imagine like the older superbit dvd's the bandwidth allocated to the video is at the detriment of any extras wink.gif Certain titles higher bandwidth will surely test a poorer hdmi cable with sparkles . Glad Ive got hdmi1.4 hi speed at the least biggrin.gif


http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/8985/spider-man_4k.html
You're confusing the compressed data stream on disk with the uncompressed HDMI signal. HDMI bandwidth is dependent on resolution, refresh rate, and bit depth. Using more range of the same bit depth wouldn't have any effect on HDMI bandwidth.
post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post


Also, in 3D, reality creation makes a HUGE difference. The pic looks much much softer with it off. And you can set the resolution higher than in 2d, as i can't see any real oversharpening through the glasses. But pause a movie in 3D and toggle RC on and off... it is really cool how much it adds in 3D.

If I remember correctly, the Sony 4K projectors, like their 4K flat screen counterparts, drop in resolution for 3D, which could explain the need for RC to get back the sense of sharpness I guess.
post #53 of 128
that right,the blacks were great the fade to black was not black, you can still see the grey on the screen.thanks
post #54 of 128
All fades to black on any digital projector that doesn't shut off the illumination source will look gray. The only one that does black is an LED projector that extinguishes LEDs with a full field 0 IRE frame.
post #55 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

You're confusing the compressed data stream on disk with the uncompressed HDMI signal. HDMI bandwidth is dependent on resolution, refresh rate, and bit depth. Using more range of the same bit depth wouldn't have any effect on HDMI bandwidth.

As Mark explained already xvycc higher colour gamut has no effect on bandwidth . I was trying [unsuccessfully it seems ] to tie bandwidth to the supposedly higher bandwidth of the new 4k mastered bd's . Digging a bit deeper it looks like some at least are more marketing than substance so will leave it there smile.gif
Quote:
Take The Amazing Spider Man : it has been shot in Red Epic, mastered in 4K, then encoded in 1080p with a disc dedicated for the film.
How the new "Mastered in 4K" Blu Ray is going to be any different or better than this ?
post #56 of 128
post #57 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

If I remember correctly, the Sony 4K projectors, like their 4K flat screen counterparts, drop in resolution for 3D, which could explain the need for RC to get back the sense of sharpness I guess.

I noted with interest this comment on VW500's 3D vs the 1000/1100:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvtest.co.uk 
3D

We were very surprised to find, given the VPL-VW500′s status as a 4K projector, that it does not reproduce full vertical resolution from Full HD 1080p sources. When we fed it our Full HD 3D resolution test pattern, we saw that while the projector produces full detail in the horizontal direction, the black and white line pairs used to assess vertical resolution were blurred into a single grey tone. This is contrary to the VPL-VW1000ES, which did manage to squeeze out every last drop of resolution.

Sony’s VPL-HW50ES 1080p projector had a similar limitation, which we assumed was due to how the 1080p panels were driven at high speed to produce both left and right views. Now we’re not so sure that was actually the case – given the huge resolution of the VPL-VW500ES’s SXRD panels, the lack of full vertical resolution in the 3D display mode points to a limitation at the video processing stage – which is still puzzling given the projector’s ability to display a 4K image. Further proof of this comes via one of the VW500ES’s aspect ratio controls, which can be set to crop the top and bottom of an image and vertically stretch it (for use with 2.35:1 ratio movies and anamorphic lenses): even after applying this setting, the line pairs do not appear, pointing to resolution being lost very high up the processing chain.

Fortunately, as with earlier SXRD 3D projectors, this was our only gripe with the 3D performance of the Sony VPLVW500ES. In practice, its extra-dimensional images were totally engaging, with their ample brightness and lack of unpleasant tinting effects meaning that we forgot about any subtle vertical softening after only a few minutes of viewing. What’s more, the VPL-VW500ES betters the double-priced VPL-VW1000ES when it comes to gamma accuracy in the third dimension. The VW1000 featured on-the-fly gamma manipulation in 3D, but there is nothing of the sort to be found on VW500.
post #58 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

No, I didn't say ghosting is eliminated, I just said that the 3-D is spectacular. In order to see ghosting you have to really look for it and it's still hard to see although it's there but my JVC RS40 had ghosting that was very noticeable.
If I were you I'd hit one of the stores that carry it and see it in action, I can guarantee one thing, there isn't a better 2-D picture out there even if you spent $100K this PJ is mind blowing and words do it no justice. It blows away the JVC's
not by a margin but by miles.

Chris. I don't agree with that statement. There is better out there but it would cost you MSRP double or so in the US. The VPL-vw1100ES just by nature of its better lens, higher on/off and slightly more lumens should you need them.
post #59 of 128
As soon as my 600 comes in, it will be going to Zombie10k for review and side by side testing of it with a VW1000. Should be interesting. smile.gif
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post #60 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

As soon as my 600 comes in, it will be going to Zombie10k for review and side by side testing of it with a VW1000. Should be interesting. smile.gif

That's a very generous move from you, in the interests of AV-geekery!

I hope Zombie will also have one of the new JVC projectors to compare as well.
(Or, maybe since I've bought a JVC, I won't want to know smile.gif)
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