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Sony VPL-VW500ES with some pics...it's simply AWESOME! - Page 4

post #91 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

?

can you elaborate a little bit more ( I sure hope that it is not some people, who just turn on the projector, then look at the convergence, say" ohh its way off, then they go adjust it and a 1/2 hour later ( when the elektronic has stabilized ) they look Again a say" WTF it has moved Again and is off Again - there is something wrong with my projector........rolleyes.gif ( no there is not, this is normal behavior )


dj

Those were my thoughts also. Also wondering how many are expecting perfect convergence and complaining because it is not perfect.
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post #92 of 128
After sitting on the fence a little between a new lower model JVC and the 600 I put in my order for the Sony. Hope it won't be too long a wait--we'll see. Now I just need to stay off these threads and try to enjoy my old JVC for the time being...

Brian
post #93 of 128
Quote:
After sitting on the fence a little between a new lower model JVC and the 600 I put in my order for the Sony. Hope it won't be too long a wait--we'll see. Now I just need to stay off these threads and try to enjoy my old JVC for the time being...

Brian

It's a great projector Brian - you are going to be very pleased. See you back here in a couple of weeks after you get your VW600..................wink.gif
post #94 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Well, I'm going to try The Croods and The Hobbit tonight in the settings you used to see how I feel . Maybe you should try the latest Spiderman, on my 500 it had no ghosting, in bright cinema mode and 3d brightness set to high. 3D with Spiderman was nearly as good as the 2D version.
Also try Brave in 3D, for me it was terrible especially in 3D high setting.

For the few following this thread that already have the 500/600 and those potential buyers seeking some answers about 3D and ghosting issues I have some really GOOD news. 3D from this projector will blow you away, it is outstanding, just as good as 2D performance.
I just watched six 3D movies ( just bits and pieces I should add I'm not that crazy ) and did not see enough ghosting to even comment on. Sure, it can be found if you spend all of your time looking for it but overall it is almost nil in the bigger scheme of things. I know yesterday I
said that Brave was riddled with ghosting to the point that it was almost unwatchable and that Spiderman was near ghost free. The only thing I can say now that may explain why that occurred is that I believe there may have been some kind of electronic glitch within the chain
of components I use. I say this because in trying to first play the movie, Brave, I had to restart several devices a few times as the movie would only begin but without sound. Once it finally did play, with sound, I experienced what I believe was ghosting, it certainly made the picture
very difficult to focus on. Later, the same evening when I played Superman, I did not experience ghosting. Was that a convergence issue? Maybe, but that doesn't explain why all six of the movies I watched tonight including the very first, did not reveal any noticeable issues.

Last movie I played tonight was Brave, the brightness, picture quality, colors, the contrast and overall 3D experience was amazing. No ghosting at all. Oh, and add to this I watched Tron which is a really dark movie. When I watched this on my HW50ES it was OK at best, on the 500
it is fantastic, like a different movie altogether.

All of the movies I watched tonight was with 3D brightness set to high, I used bright cinema mode, contrast at full( yes full), brightness set to 50, color set to 60%, color D55. All I can remember for now, will explain further tomorrow. Time to hit the hay, tis a wee late 12:30 AM
here now and I have a early rise 6AM.

Get in the line up for the 500/600 for the first time ever I well honestly say, it IS certainly worth every penny. And no, absolutely not................................. I was not drinking wink.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

?

can you elaborate a little bit more ( I sure hope that it is not some people, who just turn on the projector, then look at the convergence, say" ohh its way off, then they go adjust it and a 1/2 hour later ( when the elektronic has stabilized ) they look Again a say" WTF it has moved Again and is off Again - there is something wrong with my projector........rolleyes.gif ( no there is not, this is normal behavior )


dj

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://hdfever.fr/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D3691%26start%3D500&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsony%2Bvw500es%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1243%26bih%3D737%26tbs%3Dqdr:w

Again, just a few people on a forum, but my impression was they were giving it some warmup time.
post #96 of 128
Its amazing how this subject is making HT news. Setting convergence on CRT FPs required warm up and often stopping a movie in the middle to reconverge. Everybody that had a CRT FP always was dealing with changing convergence from turn on. Digital has been no different except convergence errors have been small and less noticeable. It should be noted that with CRTs, misconvergence was fixed rather hidden as is done with the timing convergence controls on our digital beasts.
post #97 of 128

I turn on my unit and once it is warmed up, say five minutes I can immediately watch a movie , I do not see any convergence issues at all. Does it get even brighter after a period of 30 minutes or so , as some suggest? It actually appears to do this, but to be honest I would probably
think that is more a result of our eyes adjusting to the darker environment than anything else. That would have to be measured to be quantified in my opinion. My guess is that after five minutes it is as good as it gets.
post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I turn on my unit and once it is warmed up, say five minutes I can immediately watch a movie , I do not see any convergence issues at all. Does it get even brighter after a period of 30 minutes or so , as some suggest? It actually appears to do this, but to be honest I would probably
think that is more a result of our eyes adjusting to the darker environment than anything else. That would have to be measured to be quantified in my opinion. My guess is that after five minutes it is as good as it gets.


Quit watching content. Watch test patterns. smile.gif Put up a convergence grid and watch it change during warm up, say over a 30 minute period. If you watch content, please only watch one of 20 or so titles we all use for comparisons. Unlike LPs, they won't wear out.
post #99 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

For the few following this thread that already have the 500/600 and those potential buyers seeking some answers about 3D and ghosting issues I have some really GOOD news. 3D from this projector will blow you away, it is outstanding, just as good as 2D performance.
I just watched six 3D movies ( just bits and pieces I should add I'm not that crazy ) and did not see enough ghosting to even comment on. Sure, it can be found if you spend all of your time looking for it but overall it is almost nil in the bigger scheme of things. I know yesterday I
said that Brave was riddled with ghosting to the point that it was almost unwatchable and that Spiderman was near ghost free. The only thing I can say now that may explain why that occurred is that I believe there may have been some kind of electronic glitch within the chain
of components I use. I say this because in trying to first play the movie, Brave, I had to restart several devices a few times as the movie would only begin but without sound. Once it finally did play, with sound, I experienced what I believe was ghosting, it certainly made the picture
very difficult to focus on. Later, the same evening when I played Superman, I did not experience ghosting. Was that a convergence issue? Maybe, but that doesn't explain why all six of the movies I watched tonight including the very first, did not reveal any noticeable issues.

Last movie I played tonight was Brave, the brightness, picture quality, colors, the contrast and overall 3D experience was amazing. No ghosting at all. Oh, and add to this I watched Tron which is a really dark movie. When I watched this on my HW50ES it was OK at best, on the 500
it is fantastic, like a different movie altogether.

All of the movies I watched tonight was with 3D brightness set to high, I used bright cinema mode, contrast at full( yes full), brightness set to 50, color set to 60%, color D55. All I can remember for now, will explain further tomorrow. Time to hit the hay, tis a wee late 12:30 AM
here now and I have a early rise 6AM.

Get in the line up for the 500/600 for the first time ever I well honestly say, it IS certainly worth every penny. And no, absolutely not................................. I was not drinking wink.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

BEST NEWS I HEARD IN DAYS!!!!......TY
post #100 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Quit watching content. Watch test patterns. smile.gif Put up a convergence grid and watch it change during warm up, say over a 30 minute period. If you watch content, please only watch one of 20 or so titles we all use for comparisons. Unlike LPs, they won't wear out.

Yes, will indeed do that for sure, now..........................ahem...........where can I get this disc?
post #101 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by piratemonkey View Post

BEST NEWS I HEARD IN DAYS!!!!......TY

On my way to the store now to pick up a few more movies titles for xmas , Despicable Me is on the list . tongue.gif Will report back later tonight .
post #102 of 128
Thread Starter 
I have now watched about 12 movies and never thought I would actually say this but this projector got better and better after every 3rd film WTF? And I thought it had the best picture I have ever seen after the very first film...damn this pj is good...it's that flicking good.
post #103 of 128
What about the two issues mentioned before in the thread?
- 3D vertical resolution not full 1080p with 3D test pattern?
- noise reduction can not be 100% turned off
Is this fixed now?
post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

For the few following this thread that already have the 500/600 and those potential buyers seeking some answers about 3D and ghosting issues I have some really GOOD news. 3D from this projector will blow you away, it is outstanding, just as good as 2D performance.
I just watched six 3D movies ( just bits and pieces I should add I'm not that crazy ) and did not see enough ghosting to even comment on. Sure, it can be found if you spend all of your time looking for it but overall it is almost nil in the bigger scheme of things. I know yesterday I
said that Brave was riddled with ghosting to the point that it was almost unwatchable and that Spiderman was near ghost free. The only thing I can say now that may explain why that occurred is that I believe there may have been some kind of electronic glitch within the chain
of components I use. I say this because in trying to first play the movie, Brave, I had to restart several devices a few times as the movie would only begin but without sound. Once it finally did play, with sound, I experienced what I believe was ghosting, it certainly made the picture
very difficult to focus on. Later, the same evening when I played Superman, I did not experience ghosting. Was that a convergence issue? Maybe, but that doesn't explain why all six of the movies I watched tonight including the very first, did not reveal any noticeable issues.

Last movie I played tonight was Brave, the brightness, picture quality, colors, the contrast and overall 3D experience was amazing. No ghosting at all. Oh, and add to this I watched Tron which is a really dark movie. When I watched this on my HW50ES it was OK at best, on the 500
it is fantastic, like a different movie altogether.

All of the movies I watched tonight was with 3D brightness set to high, I used bright cinema mode, contrast at full( yes full), brightness set to 50, color set to 60%, color D55. All I can remember for now, will explain further tomorrow. Time to hit the hay, tis a wee late 12:30 AM
here now and I have a early rise 6AM.

Get in the line up for the 500/600 for the first time ever I well honestly say, it IS certainly worth every penny. And no, absolutely not................................. I was not drinking wink.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Your 3D experience is very glowing, For me I see crosstalk, it looks about the same as my JVC 4810.

Can you test motion flow in 3D and let me know if you see this:
post #105 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

What about the two issues mentioned before in the thread?
- 3D vertical resolution not full 1080p with 3D test pattern?
- noise reduction can not be 100% turned off
Is this fixed now?

Excellent point , this needs to be considered , tested , verified and resolved if possible.

I have now watched nine 3D movies, last night I watched Star Trek Into Darkness from start to finish. Ghosting and other deficiencies did show up often during this movie, not horribly but enough to notice it. Some scenes showed it others did not . I tried all kinds of different settings, 3d brightness, contrast, gamma etc., and although some settings did, almost mask it, it was still there.

What I think I am seeing is the inability of the projector to scale a 3D scene that requires huge processing power. When the Projector scaling fails to keep up this shows as loss of detail AND ghosting (crosstalk) at the same time. This double duo is really stark when it happens and confusing because our eyes have not seen this before, we are only looking for and thinking ghosting. Give the projector one nanosecond to catch up and all looks great again, well not great, freaking awesome to be honest.

For those following the 3D testing with the 500/600 will know I had terrible results with my first movie Brave, the second movie Spiderman was near perfect and then the second night six more titles played flawlessly , including Brave, which, on the previous night was horrible.

Something is at play here, it seems to be random and not even consistent from movie to movie. I really do believe think it has something to do with 3D scaling NOT ghosting alone .

Just a theory , hope I am right so we can at least know what is going on and then move on to remedy the problem through a software/hardware update . Hoping my Lumagen Mini 3D will do the scaling for now , it is on the way I expect to get this mid next week.
post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cischico View Post

Your 3D experience is very glowing, For me I see crosstalk, it looks about the same as my JVC 4810.

Can you test motion flow in 3D and let me know if you see this:

I will try this tonight, I do have Hugo, one of my favorite movies to be honest.

See my last post though, I believe I may be on to something. If you have a Lumagen please give that a try. I really do think there is a processing bottleneck with the 500/600 when using 3D content.
post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cischico View Post

Your 3D experience is very glowing, For me I see crosstalk, it looks about the same as my JVC 4810.

Can you test motion flow in 3D and let me know if you see this:

I posted this in your shootout thread.... but i'll post it here too!

That is weird. I've watched Puss in Boots, the Croodz, The Hobbit, and Avatar all in 3D on mine and i didn't have that issue at all. I use motionflow on 3D always.

I DID have a couple of instances where i ran a 3D blu ray from my player (Sony BDPS790) and the image is cutting in and out with the popup on the lower right corner of the screen saying "FREQUENCY OUT OF RANGE". I rebooted my player and everything worked fine. Maybe try it again? It certainly IS a strange glitch... my VW95 never did that.
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I will try this tonight, I do have Hugo, one of my favorite movies to be honest.

See my last post though, I believe I may be on to something. If you have a Lumagen please give that a try. I really do think there is a processing bottleneck with the 500/600 when using 3D content.

I have tried motion flow in various scenes in most 3D movies and so far I have never experienced what you are showing on this clip. Will run Hugo later and post my results for comparison.
post #109 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I posted this in your shootout thread.... but i'll post it here too!

That is weird. I've watched Puss in Boots, the Croodz, The Hobbit, and Avatar all in 3D on mine and i didn't have that issue at all. I use motionflow on 3D always.

I DID have a couple of instances where i ran a 3D blu ray from my player (Sony BDPS790) and the image is cutting in and out with the popup on the lower right corner of the screen saying "FREQUENCY OUT OF RANGE". I rebooted my player and everything worked fine. Maybe try it again? It certainly IS a strange glitch... my VW95 never did that.

Certainly still some inconsistencies but whitetrash and myself appear to be on the same page, well screen anyway wink.gif

I've had a few glitches of my own, maybe there are non compatibility issues in the chain, HDMI cables not " high output " or loose, A / V receiver , Blu-Ray player etc., or a combination of the same.
I didn't have a problem with my HW50ES in the same chain, the 500/600 does have a lot more going on with upscaling to 4K however, this is where I see the problem.
post #110 of 128
I'm having a further issue with my glasses. I have two pairs of the Sony ones and two Xpand 104s with RF dongle. For a start the Xpands go in and out of sync every 5-20 seconds. Unwatchable. Second at least one of the Sony glasses seems to have a blip for a fraction of a second in either the right or left lenses. At first I thought it was just my eyes being tired - like a twitch - but I don't think it is. This can happen every 2 mins. It's a shot in the dark but I wonder whether this could relate to the same thing and that there's a problem somewhere between the projector and the glasses syncing. Get the timings wrong and that can possibly add up to crosstalk.
post #111 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

I'm having a further issue with my glasses. I have two pairs of the Sony ones and two Xpand 104s with RF dongle. For a start the Xpands go in and out of sync every 5-20 seconds. Unwatchable. Second at least one of the Sony glasses seems to have a blip for a fraction of a second in either the right or left lenses. At first I thought it was just my eyes being tired - like a twitch - but I don't think it is. This can happen every 2 mins. It's a shot in the dark but I wonder whether this could relate to the same thing and that there's a problem somewhere between the projector and the glasses syncing. Get the timings wrong and that can possibly add up to crosstalk.

Likely all related, the processor can only do so much, when there is a bottleneck I would expect everything will be affected. With all shutter glasses I have owned for, TV, PC, including all projectors I have noticed the odd blip during useage . Certainly nothing as consistent as you mention
but that could be part of the problem we have been discussing with the 500/600. If we keep up the dialog and share experiences the issues will eventually all be identified and hopefully repaired.
post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

It's a great projector Brian - you are going to be very pleased. See you back here in a couple of weeks after you get your VW600..................wink.gif

Well, I'm being asking if I want that kit with the FMP-X1 4K Ultra HD Media Player and tablet I guess....do I? What does the media player do for me? Is it only pay per view movies? Or is there free content?

thanks for the advice!

Brian
post #113 of 128
It comes preloaded with some free content. As you taste the err whatever it is, Sony hopes you will be addicted and will purchase additional 4K content which will have been downloaded to your server and purchase will unlook it for a short time or forever depending on what you pay. Forever will cost about $30 for a title.
post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It comes preloaded with some free content. As you taste the err whatever it is, Sony hopes you will be addicted and will purchase additional 4K content which will have been downloaded to your server and purchase will unlook it for a short time or forever depending on what you pay. Forever will cost about $30 for a title.

Ok, thanks--I passed. Besides, they'll probably have version 2 or 3 or the 1S...by the time I'd want its capabilities.

B.
post #115 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

I'm having a further issue with my glasses. I have two pairs of the Sony ones and two Xpand 104s with RF dongle. For a start the Xpands go in and out of sync every 5-20 seconds. Unwatchable. Second at least one of the Sony glasses seems to have a blip for a fraction of a second in either the right or left lenses. At first I thought it was just my eyes being tired - like a twitch - but I don't think it is. This can happen every 2 mins. It's a shot in the dark but I wonder whether this could relate to the same thing and that there's a problem somewhere between the projector and the glasses syncing. Get the timings wrong and that can possibly add up to crosstalk.





I remember when I had the 95ES and the Xpand 103, if you did set the 3D brightness to max (4) the Xpand did what you mention ( go in and out of sync every 5-20 seconds ) and when you then set the brightnes Down to (3 ) it disapered. Both the Sony glasses and Monster´s didnt do that, no matter wich setting you used. I know the 500ES ( or the 1000ES ) dosnt have the same brightness adjustment ( only high or standard ) but if you use the "High" setting, try the "standard" and see if that change anything.

BTW. the Xpand 103, Sony own ( pj1) and Monster´s Work witout any problem, no matter what setting you use on the 1000ES.


dj
post #116 of 128
At the moment I am unable to duplicate the problem today. I don't think its a HDMI issue. Only turning on Motion Flow did it glitch out like that. The 3D was fine and was syncing ok. I'll admit I don't know exactly how Motion Flow works but I thought it was all internal to the projector.
post #117 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Ok, thanks--I passed. Besides, they'll probably have version 2 or 3 or the 1S...by the time I'd want its capabilities.

B.

Well, if you shelled out all the big bucks for a 4K projector, doesn't it make sense to spend another $699 to get a 4K player that works with it and watch some 4K now? What are you waiting for? 4K discs won't be here for a while and they're not going to be any cheaper initially either. Heck, 3D BDs are still expensive. 4K BDs will come down in price at some point, but that will only drive down the prices for digital ownership on the Sony player. And forget rentals; RedBox still pushes DVDs and does not carry 3D. Do you honestly think they'll rent 4K? I think the rental prices are similar to PPV On-Demand and they're in 4K.

I believe the player comes with 10 movies (that's $300). Yes, I wish I could pick those 10, but I'll take them and only buy a few titles that deserve to be rewatched and in 4K. That's really only a handful per year; no comedies, drama, or horror. BD is good enough, but great eye candy movies like LOTR, The Hobbit, and the like will find their way into my collection. I spent more than $30 for some Laserdiscs. Now should I have bought Apple stock instead when it was $4/share is an entirely different subject. mad.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #118 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Well, if you shelled out all the big bucks for a 4K projector, doesn't it make sense to spend another $699 to get a 4K player that works with it and watch some 4K now? What are you waiting for? 4K discs won't be here for a while and they're not going to be any cheaper initially either. Heck, 3D BDs are still expensive. 4K BDs will come down in price at some point, but that will only drive down the prices for digital ownership on the Sony player. And forget rentals; RedBox still pushes DVDs and does not carry 3D. Do you honestly think they'll rent 4K? I think the rental prices are similar to PPV On-Demand and they're in 4K.

I believe the player comes with 10 movies (that's $300). Yes, I wish I could pick those 10, but I'll take them and only buy a few titles that deserve to be rewatched and in 4K. That's really only a handful per year; no comedies, drama, or horror. BD is good enough, but great eye candy movies like LOTR, The Hobbit, and the like will find their way into my collection. I spent more than $30 for some Laserdiscs. Now should I have bought Apple stock instead when it was $4/share is an entirely different subject. mad.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif

I'm not really interested in 4K per se. My choice is somewhat based on future-proofing my purchase, but honestly I'm just looking to get a significant upgrade in picture quality on what I watch now--TV and Blu-ray. This projector seems to be the best option without moving into a much more expensive 3-chip DLP machine.

The other issue is a long HDMI run coupled with passing through multiple switches, etc. and the need to run a second cable just to get this device working in my system.

I too, spent more than $30 for some laserdiscs, but last weekend I picked up some blu-rays for $4/5. I'm tired of spending big money on movies that I end up replacing a year or two later with a better version.

I'll happily enjoy the projector without any 4k material for the time being.

B.
post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

I remember when I had the 95ES and the Xpand 103, if you did set the 3D brightness to max (4) the Xpand did what you mention ( go in and out of sync every 5-20 seconds ) and when you then set the brightnes Down to (3 ) it disapered. Both the Sony glasses and Monster´s didnt do that, no matter wich setting you used. I know the 500ES ( or the 1000ES ) dosnt have the same brightness adjustment ( only high or standard ) but if you use the "High" setting, try the "standard" and see if that change anything.

BTW. the Xpand 103, Sony own ( pj1) and Monster´s Work witout any problem, no matter what setting you use on the 1000ES.


dj

Thanks for your feedback. I'm now happy with the 3d following a calibration and reducing glasses brightness to standard. The picture is a bit dimmer as a result but crosstalk appears to be negligible. I'll need to get a High Power screen for 3d though.

The issue I was getting with my Sony glasses suffering a glitch every few minutes may have been solved by switching off my WiFi router which is my cinema room. So far no glitches when it is off. I'm monitoring the situation. The Xpands still don't work with brightness on Standard. I'll need to investigate this problem a bit more.
post #120 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for your feedback. I'm now happy with the 3d following a calibration and reducing glasses brightness to standard. The picture is a bit dimmer as a result but crosstalk appears to be negligible. I'll need to get a High Power screen for 3d though.

The issue I was getting with my Sony glasses suffering a glitch every few minutes may have been solved by switching off my WiFi router which is my cinema room. So far no glitches when it is off. I'm monitoring the situation. The Xpands still don't work with brightness on Standard. I'll need to investigate this problem a bit more.

I experienced flicker with my glasses tonight, turns out it had something to do with the LED lighting around my ceiling. Turned it off and the flicker ceased . I would normally never watch a movie with it on anyway, but it shows that interference can come from various sources.

BTW, I watched Star Trek Dark Shadows last night and the Hobbit tonight, both in 3D . I did notice a little more ghosting but as I mentioned it seems to be random . One scene can be perfect, the very next after a scene shift terrible , doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason to it. Will be interesting to try the
Lumagen next week and see if that will help with the upscale process and free up the processor in the projector. Also hoping the A lens will give that little extra brightness to the scope movies, 16:9 is bright enough on my system.
Edited by roxiedog13 - 12/7/13 at 7:46pm
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