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Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax to be released - Page 6

post #151 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Sounds perfect. I've modeled it and it's all good. I'd go for it myself even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Nope. The 7500 is a perfect match for quad UM18's. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

Do you think a IPR2 7500 running 4 of these in 2 ohm stereo (3750W RMS x 2 at 2 ohms) would be too much for them to handle? Rated RMS is 1000 watts and max is 2000 watts each. They would be in sealed 4.5 cubic foot cabs.

Edit:
Never mind. I posted too quick and didn't read several posts up. I see someone asked this exact question already and it has been answered. My bad. tongue.gif

I have 4 coming..............and took Scott's advice and will be using the Peavey ipr2 7500.

Using two diysoundgroup.com flat packs made for the SI-18 driver. As fore-mentioned, outer baffle is ok at 18.5"..........but the inner is 1/4" too narrow so will make a jig and router to fit. Will keep you informed on how it goes.................dry fit for now..............tomorrow the glue!

The other two drivers will be first row end table subs made of 18mm BB.........veneered in Knotty Alder.

post #152 of 416
i wonder if they are going to be heavy enough....................................not to dance around.
post #153 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i wonder if they are going to be heavy enough....................................not to dance around.

Are you talking end table subs?

If you are referring to the rear subs.........good ole' IB-3 clips will keep them anchored! wink.gif
post #154 of 416
So is this sub worth the wait? I want to build my first sub enclosure and am getting antsy... I love how it looks at least but don't know if I can wait 2 months haha.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
post #155 of 416
Someone was anxious to build a sub box...didnt have time to even take the tags off the new clamps!
post #156 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Someone was anxious to build a sub box...didnt have time to even take the tags off the new clamps!

Yup, guilty as charged!

All my other clamps are on second box...........12 clamps should suffice. biggrin.gif
post #157 of 416
All good bro...all good
post #158 of 416
12 clamps huh? Now I'm thinking I'm short, I only have 6, but I'll probably be using a Kreg jig as well.
post #159 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


Using two diysoundgroup.com flat packs made for the SI-18 driver. As fore-mentioned, outer baffle is ok at 18.5"..........but the inner is 1/4" too narrow so will make a jig and router to fit. Will keep you informed on how it goes.................dry fit for now..............tomorrow the glue!

I wouldn't mess with the inner hole just yet. The inner hole cut out is the same on the SI-18 and the RS-18. Are you sure the new Ultimax does require a larger cutout than both of those? I haven't checked.
post #160 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I wouldn't mess with the inner hole just yet. The inner hole cut out is the same on the SI-18 and the RS-18. Are you sure the new Ultimax does require a larger cutout than both of those? I haven't checked.

Don't plan to cut inner hole until I can dry fit the UM driver. Parts Expess has UM inner hole at 17 inches while the flat pack is at 16-3/4.

BTW, are 18" dual opposed available? I've emailed you concerning matter.......,
post #161 of 416
The dual opposed are strapped up and ready to drop in a shipping box. But the outer baffles were cut for the RS-18.

The problem is shipping boxes. I've got about 36-40 of the dual opposed, but to get custom shipping boxes made up, I need to order about 200 of them. If not, the price per shipping box is over $5. Uline has a box that will work, but they need to be shipped on pallets, so that really adds to the price. Basically a shipping box for the larger panels would be around $7-$8. Then the braces and baffles need to be shipped in a different box due to weight. So that would add another shipping box for about $4. I'm not too worried about the pallet corner protectors I use, but just packaging material comes in at about $18 per flat pack.

I will probably just order the boxes from Uline and cut them down to the proper size.

Pictures aren't uploaded because I haven't had time to clear of my classy 'photo table' and dry fit one of these beasts on it yet. I'll be getting photos of the coaxial speakers in the next few days, and will try to get a photo up of the dual opposed as well.
post #162 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The dual opposed are strapped up and ready to drop in a shipping box. But the outer baffles were cut for the RS-18.


Nice, what are the dimensions?
post #163 of 416
Who else is considering dropping their pre-order on the ultimax 18" for the group buy on the UXL-18?

I've been thinking about it through the day - - - The biggest thing stopping me is that the Ultimax 18" cone looks way better IMO.

Admittedly -


I've got four furniture quality 3.5 cubic foot sealed enclosures with black oak veneer. Having seen an ultimax 15" in person - I know they are a very good looking driver. (in my opinion quite a bit sharper looking than the UXL-18 --- subjectively!)
post #164 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Who else is considering dropping their pre-order on the ultimax 18" for the group buy on the UXL-18?

I've been thinking about it through the day - - - The biggest thing stopping me is that the Ultimax 18" cone looks way better IMO.

Admittedly -


I've got four furniture quality 3.5 cubic foot sealed enclosures with black oak veneer. Having seen an ultimax 15" in person - I know they are a very good looking driver. (in my opinion quite a bit sharper looking than the UXL-18 --- subjectively!)

I think it is a toss up at this point. No one knows the real excursion of the Ultimax until someone measures it. We know the Reference 18 is under rated, and I would be surprised if the Ultimax did not have more actual excursion than the reference... Until one is measured, it is a bit of a guessing game of how good it will really be in my opinion.
post #165 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by nater1 View Post

I think it is a toss up at this point. No one knows the real excursion of the Ultimax until someone measures it. We know the Reference 18 is under rated, and I would be surprised if the Ultimax did not have more actual excursion than the reference... Until one is measured, it is a bit of a guessing game of how good it will really be in my opinion.

I'm wondering exactly the same thing. Even at $410 in the group buy the UXL is still not cheap by SI18 or Dayton HO standards... the Ultimax is still a steal at 266/ea in quantities of 4 if the output is anywhere close to the UXL.
post #166 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhammans View Post

I'm wondering exactly the same thing. Even at $410 in the group buy the UXL is still not cheap by SI18 or Dayton HO standards... the Ultimax is still a steal at 266/ea in quantities of 4 if the output is anywhere close to the UXL.

The output of the UM18-22 is going to be closer to the SI 18 then it is the UXL-18.
post #167 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"If it has the copper pole sleeve like the smaller UM series drivers it has a lot going for it."

the 15" has the copper sleeve and copper cap.

the 18" is indicated with dual aluminum rings.

le/re for the 15 is 0.38 and for the 18 it is 0.69.

What does this mean in practical use terms?
post #168 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post



Don't have the SI or LMS Ultra on here but comparing it to these other nice 'woofers' in sealed alignments - up to each's full excursion... looks like this is a very nice driver... Closer to a UXL in performance then a Reference. Not bad.

1.5 db's down from a UXL or Avalanche 18 @20hz
3.5 db's better then the Reference 18 or UM15 @20hz

Who here scuttled their Ultimax 18" pre-order for the IST Mach IV UXL-18 group buy? Anyone?

I think I'm still onboard for the Ultimax 18. Getting the Black Friday coupon code, combined with the subjectively better looking Ultimax driver kept me put. Here's to hoping the driver is underrated like the HO model was.
post #169 of 416
I'm in the opposite place, this woofer kept me from doing the UXL group buy. I'd like to see some numbers first before I jump in but I'm hoping to do 4 of them in medium to large size ported enclosures.
post #170 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

What does this mean in practical use terms?

The dual aluminum rings reduce distortion higher in frequency, but the copper sleeve and cap are even better in that regard.
post #171 of 416
"The dual aluminum rings reduce distortion higher in frequency, but the copper sleeve and cap are even better in that regard."

paul, you may be one guy who can really address this.

with a crossover in the 80-100hz ballpark and eq'd for the same response, can you *hear* any difference between these two?

is there any difference on any music under 80hz?

lots of folks ask me about this and I don't have a good answer for them or any good resource to point them to.

seems a little strange that there aren't some comparisons or measurements given the additional hassle of including the various inductance control technologies.
post #172 of 416
"What does this mean in practical use terms?"

let's try to find out.

upper end usable frequency is obviously 1. potential differences in sensitivity (and all the cascading effects from the various distortions) is 2 (inductance acts like driving with your foot on the braker and slows how fast a driver can change position, which causes a low pass filtering effect and a rise in the impedance).

but like I just asked paul, with an 80-100hz crossover and eq'd the same (also, if the inductance isn't so bad as to crush the top end sensitivity), I don't know if there are audible differences. there may be. I just don't know.
post #173 of 416
Dont forget that the LFE channel in the source material is supposed to include Signal up to 120Hz, so even if you cross the mains at at 80 or 60, the subwoofer should still be able to deliver at the higher frequencies above the cross over point, because the top end of the LFE channel is not redirected to the mains. If the sub cant do that the top end of the LFE signal is simply not played at sufficient volume.
post #174 of 416
I've never had the opportunity to compare otherwise identical subs & suspect that is the case for most people. I suspect most of us would not hear the inductance difference with an 80-100hz crossover.

What may cause more audible harm is subwoofer cone breakup. Most receivers etc slap a 4th order XO on the sub & call it good...but many subs have HF breakup that can be excited by low-level signals not adequately filtered by a simple XO. I believe it pays to measure subs full range and EQ appropriately. For example, mine need a 15db notch at 575Hz...and, particularly with music, I can hear the difference with/without the notch.
post #175 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post

Dont forget that the LFE channel in the source material is supposed to include Signal up to 120Hz, so even if you cross the mains at at 80 or 60, the subwoofer should still be able to deliver at the higher frequencies above the cross over point, because the top end of the LFE channel is not redirected to the mains. If the sub cant do that the top end of the LFE signal is simply not played at sufficient volume.

Anyone else concur with the above?
post #176 of 416
I have never seen any evidence to the contrary, and if the top end of the LFE actually was redirected to the mains, you would need even more headroom in the mains above your chosen crossover point.
post #177 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Not if using 10% THD as metric."


"1) 22mm is VC overhang."

hehe....so xmax is probably closer to 25 and usable is probably closer to 30.

that kind of changes things a bit and explains where at least a little of the massive weight went.

thanks for the clarification.


Does that mean that in modeling this we should be using 25mm xmax or 30mm?
post #178 of 416
Saw this older quote on the parts express forum from Rory and felt warm and fuzzy. I'm looking forward to my order!

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240177-It-was-only-a-matter-of-time-right&p=1951077#post1951077





Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by Oscillate View Post

I realize that the stated T/S parameters are just an estimate until the drivers are
actually delivered and measured ...however, based on Dayton's track record, do you
think I could or should design and build a 0.707 Qtc sealed enclosure beforedhand?
Or is that too risky?


The parameters posted are from our most recent sample. Given the performance we've achieved, I don't think we will make any changes, except for maybe some minor adjustments based on the Klippel results. I can't guarantee there will be no further changes, but I can guarantee that we will make certain that we get everything right with this capstone product in our subwoofer line before heading to production.

Best Regards,

Rory Buszka
Product Manager, Dayton Audio





Cliffnotes about UM-18 from Dayton Audio Product Manager:

  • Capstone Product
  • Dayton Engineers happy with performance achieved
  • Manager promises successful product
post #179 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Saw this older quote on the parts express forum from Rory and felt warm and fuzzy. I'm looking forward to my order!

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240177-It-was-only-a-matter-of-time-right&p=1951077#post1951077



The parameters posted are from our most recent sample. Given the performance we've achieved, I don't think we will make any changes, except for maybe some minor adjustments based on the Klippel results. I can't guarantee there will be no further changes, but I can guarantee that we will make certain that we get everything right with this capstone product in our subwoofer line before heading to production.

Best Regards,

Rory Buszka
Product Manager, Dayton Audio





Cliffnotes about UM-18 from Dayton Audio Product Manager:

  • Capstone Product
  • Dayton Engineers happy with performance achieved
  • Manager promises successful product


Yeah, I really struggled big time with this one................ordered same 4 UM's in November on Black Friday receiving discount....................signed up for 2 UXL's during group buy while I was in Germany. Pondered for weeks on end.............UXL or UM........pm'ed........................looked at specs........................looked at models..................difficult to say the least.

Must say, if I have to have driver in view, I prefer the UM's looks too. What came down to final decision was warranty........WARRANTY! Five years.............the looks of driver..............and models from respected AVS members pushed me to cancel my UXL order for two and stay pat with my Black Friday order. My one caveat................I'm little concerned about driver not having been tested ie. realistic numbers at this time. I should be one of he first to receive driver due to place in line for pre-order. As soon as I receive drivers, won't take more than a few hours for me to actually record real world numbers as I have REW set to go as soon as they arrive!!
post #180 of 416
"Does that mean that in modeling this we should be using 25mm xmax or 30mm?"

i'd probably stick 25 in there, but xmax is not some sort of 'hard cutoff' point. in most drivers the bl field falls off a little before and a little more after the specified xmax point.
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