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Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax to be released - Page 4

post #91 of 416
To my knowledge the 12 spoke frames have been open tooling for years as is the 6 spoke. Tons of drivers not from Fi use those frames. The UM18 is probably made in China.


The 22mm overhang does bode well for this being a little more capable as a subbass pump than the RS18 and I like the look of the cone too. If it has the copper pole sleeve like the smaller UM series drivers it has a lot going for it.
post #92 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebadmonte View Post

I wonder how this woofer is connected to Fi Aufio. From my understanding Fi Audio owns the tooling for the 12 spoke 18" basket. That is why we've always seen the big 6 spoke sket on 18" drivers. Interesting to say the least. :/
There are quite a few drivers that use the 12 spoke basket design. I've got a 15" DD Delts SPL sub that has the exact basket in my storage unit.
post #93 of 416
This driver is sounding promising. cool.gif I'm feeling the need to "test" a few of these myself. tongue.gif

Looking forward to them being released and tested formally. Should pair well with the number of high power efficient amps out there like the IPR5000, Inuke6000, etc.
post #94 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

This driver is sounding promising. cool.gif I'm feeling the need to "test" a few of these myself. tongue.gif

Looking forward to them being released and tested formally. Should pair well with the number of high power efficient amps out there like the IPR5000, Inuke6000, etc.

The problem with these so called "tests" is that we keep it all afterwards! As it is, I have 16 place seating for my Dayton audio 18" home furniture collection biggrin.gif Every thread I read with new products winds up ending in a credit card receipt and a tracking number biggrin.gif It's so hard to make a firm decision on subs now, there are so many.....16 HOs, 16UM, some gjallarhorns, 24" Si's. Seriously though, it's a great time to be a diy'er in audio, it's just like a restaurant with a huge menu though, so hard to decide
post #95 of 416
"If it has the copper pole sleeve like the smaller UM series drivers it has a lot going for it."

the 15" has the copper sleeve and copper cap.

the 18" is indicated with dual aluminum rings.

le/re for the 15 is 0.38 and for the 18 it is 0.69.
post #96 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

This driver is sounding promising. cool.gif I'm feeling the need to "test" a few of these myself. tongue.gif

Looking forward to them being released and tested formally. Should pair well with the number of high power efficient amps out there like the IPR5000, Inuke6000, etc.

I have a feeling that may mean dual opposing versions of these too, for you. biggrin.gif
post #97 of 416

Hi, a couple notes.

 

1) This driver has no relation to the Fi Audio car subwoofers except for using the same basket casting. If you want to break the bank when developing a driver, insisting on a custom tooled die-cast frame is an easy way, so most manufacturers use off-the-shelf basket castings, or open tooling for the die casting. The open-tooling 12-spoke "MTX-style" basket used for the other Ultimax drivers is only available in sizes from 8" thru 15", so we had to look around for an open-tooling 18" 12-spoke basket that would provide the most similar cosmetics and functionality to the other 18" Ultimax drivers. There have been at least a couple variations of 12-spoke 18" frames created that have open tooling (since opening the tooling is a way to reduce the cost of having the tooling made), and I know that this frame is shared by at least the Fi Audio car subwoofers, but SSA Audio is another company that is using a different 18" 12-spoke basket. This doesn't indicate a tie to a particular build house, and I have not investigated where the Fi Audio drivers are made.

 

2) The Ultimax 18" model uses aluminum shorting rings instead of copper, again to avoid breaking the bank on details and to enable us to be very competitive on pricing. The aluminum shorting rings provide very nearly the same effectiveness for inductance control as copper, at least in this design, such that the extra cost of copper shorting rings was not justifiable. Most of the extra inductance comes from the larger and much longer coil than the other Ultimax models (10" thru 15").

 

Glad to see all the interest in these drivers.

 

Best regards,

Rory Buszka - Product Manager

Dayton Audio

post #98 of 416
Rory, Thanks for coming over to join AVS and post!

As an aside --- one quick question for the others on this board. Do you start out with 10 thumbs up on these boards? Rory's first post has no thumbs up, but he has 10 thumbs up on his profile avatar? Seems strange, whats up with that?...
Edited by Archaea - 11/21/13 at 8:26am
post #99 of 416
^^^ Doesn't the thumbs up field indicate thumbs up the user has given vs. received?
Edited by wth718 - 11/21/13 at 7:06am
post #100 of 416
nah - click it on your profile. It shows you who and where they originated from other members, but you can't click other's profiles -- only your own.
post #101 of 416
Mine don't add up. it shows 65, but I have 45 thumbs up to my posts and 16 I've given to others. Weird.

Oh well...
post #102 of 416
re: thumbs up, there's is something non-obvious about how things get tallied and totaled. The number under my avatar currently reads 17 (although I am certain it will jump up dramatically after this amazingly helpful post rolleyes.gif ) but I can look and see that I've actually received only 6 bumps from 4 unique people. Not sure how that works.

edit: OK I don't need any more thumbs up so you jokers can knock it off now. tongue.gif
Edited by antisuck - 11/21/13 at 1:38pm
post #103 of 416
Gave you a thumbs up for that. Thought you could use it, lol
post #104 of 416
Guys.... you get 10 'thumbs up' just for being a member. Everyone starts there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post

Hi, a couple notes.

1) This driver has no relation to the Fi Audio car subwoofers except for using the same basket casting. If you want to break the bank when developing a driver, insisting on a custom tooled die-cast frame is an easy way, so most manufacturers use off-the-shelf basket castings, or open tooling for the die casting. The open-tooling 12-spoke "MTX-style" basket used for the other Ultimax drivers is only available in sizes from 8" thru 15", so we had to look around for an open-tooling 18" 12-spoke basket that would provide the most similar cosmetics and functionality to the other 18" Ultimax drivers. There have been at least a couple variations of 12-spoke 18" frames created that have open tooling (since opening the tooling is a way to reduce the cost of having the tooling made), and I know that this frame is shared by at least the Fi Audio car subwoofers, but SSA Audio is another company that is using a different 18" 12-spoke basket. This doesn't indicate a tie to a particular build house, and I have not investigated where the Fi Audio drivers are made.

2) The Ultimax 18" model uses aluminum shorting rings instead of copper, again to avoid breaking the bank on details and to enable us to be very competitive on pricing. The aluminum shorting rings provide very nearly the same effectiveness for inductance control as copper, at least in this design, such that the extra cost of copper shorting rings was not justifiable. Most of the extra inductance comes from the larger and much longer coil than the other Ultimax models (10" thru 15").

Glad to see all the interest in these drivers.

Best regards,
Rory Buszka - Product Manager
Dayton Audio

Rory! Thanks for coming here and providing us with details on this driver that has many of very interested.

I am a little disappointed that you guys couldn't get the full copper sleeve but I understand why you didn't. If you had then the motor forces would be lower and Qes would go higher. In order to get the strength back and Qes kept low then you'd have to manufacture a MUCH larger motor and that would bring up the price and overall weight significantly.

That being said, there IS DEFINITELY a market for that kind of driver. You guys at Dayton (and PE) should definitely take that into consideration. Although I guess there has been some now that drivers such as the Ultimax exist. smile.gif

Thanks again for coming by and giving us the low down.
post #105 of 416
It doesn't do terribly in an offset horn either, although it makes for a rather large horn. I can't post HornResp screen shots because my laptop doesn't want to play well with the Internet right now, but I can post my input parameters if someone else wants to draw it up. I'm still learning HornResp, so feel free to chime in if I've gone wrong somewhere.

2 Pi space, 1K watts into 4 ohms
S1-200 / S2-375 / Par 40 (compression ratio 3.23:1)
S2-375 / S3-550 / Par 40
S3-550 / S4-1500 / Par 250
S4-1500 / S5-4000 / Par 300
Vrc-212.25 / Lrc-45
Vtc-2200 / Atc-1450

It's pretty flat at 122 dB from 18 Hz to 34 Hz. F3 at 16 Hz, F10 at 13 Hz. At the other end, it rises 3 dB by 40 Hz. Acoustical impedance and electrical impedance are both very nice. Displacement rises above 25mm at 16.75 Hz. This is using the published T/S parameters from Parts Express.
post #106 of 416
"Do you start out with 10 thumbs up on these boards?"

yeah. maybe think of it as the mods giving 10 thumbs up just for joining in. isn't that worth something? :-)
post #107 of 416
"Gave you a thumbs up for that. Thought you could use it, lol"

+1, what goes around comes around, you just got one too. lol.
post #108 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post

Hi, a couple notes.

1) This driver has no relation to the Fi Audio car subwoofers except for using the same basket casting. If you want to break the bank when developing a driver, insisting on a custom tooled die-cast frame is an easy way, so most manufacturers use off-the-shelf basket castings, or open tooling for the die casting. The open-tooling 12-spoke "MTX-style" basket used for the other Ultimax drivers is only available in sizes from 8" thru 15", so we had to look around for an open-tooling 18" 12-spoke basket that would provide the most similar cosmetics and functionality to the other 18" Ultimax drivers. There have been at least a couple variations of 12-spoke 18" frames created that have open tooling (since opening the tooling is a way to reduce the cost of having the tooling made), and I know that this frame is shared by at least the Fi Audio car subwoofers, but SSA Audio is another company that is using a different 18" 12-spoke basket. This doesn't indicate a tie to a particular build house, and I have not investigated where the Fi Audio drivers are made.

Best regards,
Rory Buszka - Product Manager
Dayton Audio

Interesting to read that there is an open tool 12 spoke 18" basket. While I knew that the 8"-15" 12 spoke baskets were readily available to anyone. The 18" 12 spoke was exclusive to Fi Audio and whom ever they OEM for, such as SSA Audio. That's why we never saw Sundown Audio use the 18" spoke basket. Well tha t s not the only reason why Sundown did use the, but thats another story. :P

Either way, congrats on the new woofer, I'm sure we'll read about many successful implementations and craked walls. smile.gif
post #109 of 416
Considering a year ago it seemed every decent subwoofer was going belly up, the game has really changed. Glad to see it. Going DIY can really save money these days. And the UM18 looks absolutely sick!
post #110 of 416
975 liters is about 33 cu ft. 4' x 5' x 2' sub...um18 driver...for those who don't need under 20hz and want to absolutely crush it on a budget from 20hz up...2200 watts (one channel of an inuke 6000 dsp) gets this:





two drivers, one amp, bunch of wood...sounds like some sort of insane flat pack to me (+6db on top of what is shown) for...imax theater! :-)

edit: i see that i had "con" for lengths. changing to "par" makes no difference in this model.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/21/13 at 9:39pm
post #111 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

975 liters is about 33 cu ft. 4' x 5' x 2' sub...um18 driver...for those who don't need under 20hz and want to absolutely crush it on a budget from 20hz up...2200 watts (one channel of an inuke 6000 dsp) gets this:





two drivers, one amp, bunch of wood...sounds like some sort of insane flat pack to me (+6db on top of what is shown) for...imax theater! :-)

edit: i see that i had "con" for lengths. changing to "par" makes no difference in this model.

I think you just designed my new shop sub... redface.gif
post #112 of 416
I am new to the DIY community, I just built 3 Fusion 10 Pure, and have 4 Karma 8's on order for surrounds. I was thinking of ordering two of these drivers and two 4 cubic foot flat packs from Erich and possibly an iNuke 3000 dsp. I was just looking for opinions on whether this would be an upgrade for me? Currently have 2 Power Sound Audio xs30's my room is about 4000 cubic feet or so. Thanks in advance.

Matt
post #113 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarki View Post

I am new to the DIY community, I just built 3 Fusion 10 Pure, and have 4 Karma 8's on order for surrounds. I was thinking of ordering two of these drivers and two 4 cubic foot flat packs from Erich and possibly an iNuke 3000 dsp. I was just looking for opinions on whether this would be an upgrade for me? Currently have 2 Power Sound Audio xs30's my room is about 4000 cubic feet or so. Thanks in advance.

Matt

I would get the iNuke6000 dsp instead of the 3000.
post #114 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

I would get the iNuke6000 dsp instead of the 3000.

Thanks for the suggestion. Could I power 4 subs with that, or would I need to buy 2 of the 6000's if I go with 4 subs?
post #115 of 416
That would be a fairly lateral move.

You are going from four sealed 15s to couple of sealed 18s.

Not too much excitement there.

If you plan to compliment the PSA, then go for it. If you plan to replace/upgrade you'd better go with four sealed 18s.


You could build the Martysub with a couple budget 18s and have a pretty significant upgrade from your PSA. But Martysub is ported to give you the extra headroom around port tune.
post #116 of 416
you should be able to power 4 with it, if you have them all wired correctly, would just need to run 2 subs per channel making sure the amp sees a 4 ohm load on that channel

the XS30 is no slouch of a sub, im not sure 2 of these would be better. 4 prob would
post #117 of 416
Thanks Archaea and Sibuna. I think I'll keep the XS30's for now. I just have a little of the DIY bug, I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself without doing some research, measurements etc...
post #118 of 416
"I think you just designed my new shop sub..."

it was just a first pass to see if the driver could be used in a front loaded horn. appears to work...surprisingly well. the 25mm excursion allows for pretty high spl on the lower end and the front loaded horn brings the upper end sensitivity up into the upper 90's 1w1m.

if you think it is something that you'd like to build, we can try a few different folds and see how it goes. no rush though since the drivers won't be in stock until January.
post #119 of 416
Wow, it feels like 2005-9 again, only the pricing seems lower and the overall quality higher.

$275 for an 18" woofer with shorting rings, claimed response (let's see measurements...) to 1kHz, and that much throw...wow.

Nicely done, PE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ +1 How about the mae-x??

It's almost identical in output to the Avalanche so I never measure it anymore...

Only down low, because output = volume displacement.

In the midbass, the Ava18 has severe problems due to its very high inductance. The Mael-X was worlds better. (I've owned, and subsequently sold, both drivers.)

I could only use my Ava18 effectively in a 2-way subwoofer system, with an "MBM" (Tannoy B475) behind the LP. With the Mael-X, multisubs were needed for smooth response, but the performance from 40-120Hz was subjectively worlds better than the Ava18.
post #120 of 416
Luke Kamp texted me to relay parts express is having a black Friday sale.

$100 off $1000
$50 off $500

Etc

I reordered my four.

https://www.parts-express.com/promo/black_friday
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