or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › SI 24z build....8 of em'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SI 24z build....8 of em' - Page 11

post #301 of 675
BT is right that room treatment is vital, but room treatment and room correction are not mutually exclusive. Also, the effect of high end room EQ is a different animal from the consumer grade Audyssey/MCACC stuff. In my experience/opinion, the consumer stuff is intended to make crappy speakers in crappy environments sound less crappy. In a very well setup room, I've found they have a negative effect. I've used Dirac, but not Trinnov and I can say that Dirac is a world apart from the typical Audyssey stuff found in Integra/Marantz/Denon/etc.

The ADA and DataSat processors are not high end snake oil. They aren't designed to make bad setups sound less bad. They are designed for a pro room designer to maximize a room like Chop's that is likely already well treated and designed holistically. Of course, they also aren't magic and won't correct for nulls due to layout design flaws or crap speakers.

Anyway, these guys are right that processing is the least of your present worries. You could go with a 5 year old Denon and be very happy. In an all-out build like this, the processor is icing on the cake and not where the heavy lifting is done. I'd much rather have a very well designed room with very basic processing over a crap room with ADA/Datasat.
post #302 of 675
You know, I had the Ada Suite 7.1hd and installed the cinema Rhapsody Mark IV for a friend. They are very nice and I just used the PEQ within. Every time I have someone over from the forums and not just in awe of bass because they don't have a clue the first thing everyone mentions is how I got the room so flat sounding. Everyone talks about the room and not even the equipment. I just covered all the sheet rock with sound board and covered that with fabric of my choice. That gets rid of all echo! Then one can apply the room with bass traps and treatments.
post #303 of 675
Datasat/Dirac, Ada Trinnov, superb stuff, no question.

However, we preach and preach around here the core important elements to a system's hierarchy; it's all about quality loudspeakers, a well executed room, and most importantly the optimal blending of the two. These facts will not change.

Yeah, the black boxes availed to us these days a fascinating devices and each company's principals make compelling arguments to go down their rabbit hole. Myself, it's just too much of a moving target, whereas room acoustics and the design chops of Keith Yates are mature in their development and represent significant value.

Relatively speaking, the ROI is rock solid if you focus on the room and acoustic best practices, like a studio build. The tech will come and go, however a good room, and simple system tools for optimization, will provide you with exactly what you want.
post #304 of 675
I haven't been following where this has gone, but FYI: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240265-Fs-(4)-ae-ib15ht
post #305 of 675
Thread Starter 
Thanks fr all of the replies guys! I know this went OT for a bit, but this complex of a sub system will have a significant impact I think, so I thought it fit the convo. As many have said, Keith will dictate design and treatment will be done to his standard as well, so our foundation should be as solid as could be. I also think the point that these high end pieces offer something as well. I would not forgoe that piece in order to buy a datasat or Ada or trinnov that matter. I like the idea of the Mach IV and adding trinnov later, just trying to be sure that I'm not losing the ability to do the heights/wides etc by moving from the marantz. I know Mark, you sai trinnov will dictate all that, but even if tr pre/pro doesn't have an output for that channel?? It may be so, I'm just unaware if trinnov or Dirac can creat those channels without. I know it's probably an elementary question, but I'm just strarting to get a grasp on some of this aspect
post #306 of 675
Thread Starter 
Than
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I haven't been following where this has gone, but FYI: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240265-Fs-(4)-ae-ib15ht

Thanks tux, I am doing the ib18 from AE
post #307 of 675
Chop-do you know if any current movies are even recorded in anything more than 7.1? As far as I am aware, most, if not all movies are mastered in 7.1 channel format, so the Marantz unit would have to matrix the extra channels, right? So if you go with the ADA/Trinmov unit, could you not wire some additional side surrounds in series to give you some additional side surround coverage?

I know that having the height and wide channels sounds like it would be a good improvement over the current 7.1 norm, but the setups that I have personally listened to that employees both heights and wides was not all that impressive to me. In my opinion, the benefits of Trinnov far outweigh the benefits of having heights and wides, or extra surround channels.
post #308 of 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Chop-do you know if any current movies are even recorded in anything more than 7.1? As far as I am aware, most, if not all movies are mastered in 7.1 channel format, so the Marantz unit would have to matrix the extra channels, right? So if you go with the ADA/Trinmov unit, could you not wire some additional side surrounds in series to give you some additional side surround coverage?

I know that having the height and wide channels sounds like it would be a good improvement over the current 7.1 norm, but the setups that I have personally listened to that employees both heights and wides was not all that impressive to me. In my opinion, the benefits of Trinnov far outweigh the benefits of having heights and wides, or extra surround channels.

Yes they do. It's a new thing called 'object based rendering'.

Heard of Dolby Atmos? Yeah, that's the future of surround mixes. Currently there is support for roughly 64 independent speaker outputs and 128 objects.

But anyway, the Tom Cruise Sci-fi movie from this year, Oblivion, was the first movie to be mixed originally in Atmos and then downmixed to 7.1 or lower. Several other movies since have been done the same way. These mixes technically have an unlimited amount of "channels" that the mix can be reproduced as.
post #309 of 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Thanks fr all of the replies guys! I know this went OT for a bit, but this complex of a sub system will have a significant impact I think, so I thought it fit the convo. As many have said, Keith will dictate design and treatment will be done to his standard as well, so our foundation should be as solid as could be. I also think the point that these high end pieces offer something as well. I would not forgoe that piece in order to buy a datasat or Ada or trinnov that matter. I like the idea of the Mach IV and adding trinnov later, just trying to be sure that I'm not losing the ability to do the heights/wides etc by moving from the marantz. I know Mark, you sai trinnov will dictate all that, but even if tr pre/pro doesn't have an output for that channel?? It may be so, I'm just unaware if trinnov or Dirac can creat those channels without. I know it's probably an elementary question, but I'm just strarting to get a grasp on some of this aspect

I'm confused. The ADA Mach IV is the one that "only" has 7.1 outputs. Marantz or Integra offer all the latest processing for height, wide, etc. so with the ADA you will be leaving any channel expansion to the Trinnov device you choose. The Datasat box is exceptional as well and I don't really see any down side to either from a sonic standpoint. The DataSat does require a little more planning with setting up a remote (see iRule) while the Trinnov boxes are more so set & forget. If you like the idea of additional channels such as side, wide and height speakers, the Trinnov has the cooler technology and future capabilities, especially the Magnitude 32 which can take up to 16 channels in.
post #310 of 675
Thread Starter 
I was confused Mark, your explanation, along with Richard from ADA make it clear. My confusion came from the thought that the trinnov would only process what the Rhapsody had for outputs... Not sure why I thought that, maybe just paranoia of buying an expensive piece and not getting what I thought. Ultimately, I think the ADA or datasat would provide gains over the integra or marantz, etc. the ADA is lower cost of ownership and I can add all the channels I want with Trinnov, not to mention your sentiment above has been echoed by many... Trinnov seems to be the peak. I think what I'll do is order the ADA now and wait until feb when the fully digital MG32 is out and grab that to go with it. At that point, I can bypass the crown dsp and use them for power only, taking the active crossovers to the next level with Trinnov too
post #311 of 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I was confused Mark, your explanation, along with Richard from ADA make it clear. My confusion came from the thought that the trinnov would only process what the Rhapsody had for outputs... Not sure why I thought that, maybe just paranoia of buying an expensive piece and not getting what I thought. Ultimately, I think the ADA or datasat would provide gains over the integra or marantz, etc. the ADA is lower cost of ownership and I can add all the channels I want with Trinnov, not to mention your sentiment above has been echoed by many... Trinnov seems to be the peak. I think what I'll do is order the ADA now and wait until feb when the fully digital MG32 is out and grab that to go with it. At that point, I can bypass the crown dsp and use them for power only, taking the active crossovers to the next level with Trinnov too

I think that is a wise decision! If I were in the position that you are, and could afford just about any pre/pro on the market, I would most likely be getting something with Trinnov. It really is amazing what that can do.

I must admit that I come from the camp that all modern day receivers and pre/pro's pretty much sound the same. Sure, some may impart a small difference between each other, kind of a sound signature, but, it is most likely not able to be identified in a DBT. The only pre-pro that I would ever consider over something like a Denon x4000, would be something with Trinnov.
post #312 of 675
Thread Starter 
totally ot, but I'm too excited not to post it.....new arrival!!



post #313 of 675
Opening the Christmas presents early are you biggrin.gif

On a side note does the PJ have a built in LCD Screen eek.gif
post #314 of 675
Awesome projector porn! That thing is super cool!
post #315 of 675
i'd be going nutz too...looks like xmas or whatever your day came early this year.
post #316 of 675
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Opening the Christmas presents early are you biggrin.gif

On a side note does the PJ have a built in LCD Screen eek.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Awesome projector porn! That thing is super cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'd be going nutz too...looks like xmas or whatever your day came early this year.

Thanks guys! It does Matt, pretty wild. I am so anxious to use it I said screw waiting for the room. I made up a quick diy 144" wide scope screen with spandex last night, just to play around with it. Didn't have time for much else...will install the lens in the chassis and fire it up tonight!
post #317 of 675
Nice!!!! is that 4k?
post #318 of 675
Thread Starter 
I wish
post #319 of 675
HA. 4k is over rated. thats one hell of a projector. Im a big dlp fan. cant wait to see how your room turns out. was that 144wide not diag?
post #320 of 675
Which model dvision is it? Or are they pretty much the same. Is it a dual lamp or are they all dual lamp.
I don't know much about these and couldn't find any reviews on them.
post #321 of 675
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SULLY12 View Post

HA. 4k is over rated. thats one hell of a projector. Im a big dlp fan. cant wait to see how your room turns out. was that 144wide not diag?

Yeah, 144 wide...just a quick test screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by MX48 View Post

Which model dvision is it? Or are they pretty much the same. Is it a dual lamp or are they all dual lamp.
I don't know much about these and couldn't find any reviews on them.

Dvision 30XC. Dual UHP lamps. The DPI units are fantastic!
post #322 of 675
hmmmm, really quiet in this thread.....
post #323 of 675
Thread Starter 
Yeah, just trying to finish the mains and get moved in. Epic woof age is on the horizon
post #324 of 675
Thread Starter 
Well, bad news....the short story on my contractor is that in the 2 years they have taken to build my house (no that's not a typo)...they have managed to go from upstanding to completely delinquent and leave me holding about a $20k bag. This means the cost of construction of the IB space is eaten up and other solutions for subs must be made. In the end, we are truely blessed....it's a great house and we will still have a nice HT, just no 24 woofer IB frown.gif It sux that they have cost me the cash and that my hard work is helping pay for their screw ups, but in the end, I''m reminded of what matters...my family is happy and healthy!

My silver linning is that I get to play with a new sub project now. Sorry to those who contributed thoughts here, and I truely appreciate the help....now I'll need it trying to figure out where to put the 8X Si 24z biggrin.gif I've been talking with Nick and these things are a no braniner for me. Although 10-15cubes each isn't small, it's a far cry from 1500cubes of IB space, so I can manage it and hopefully give nothing up in performance..heck might gain some output. I was still considering a smaller IB, but with room size, I don't think it will have the output
post #325 of 675
Damn. That sucks to hear, Chop. It sounds like in the end it won't effect you two in a severe way. That's good. Just no wicked crazy IB system. Oh well. I'm sure we can work up something else for ya. biggrin.gif
post #326 of 675
four dual opposed at 25% points, ie, at each corner of the seating area

or 25% points front wall and rear wall
post #327 of 675
You can always add more later smile.gif
post #328 of 675
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

four dual opposed at 25% points, ie, at each corner of the seating area

or 25% points front wall and rear wall

Was thinking of something like this and some others. Even an SBA with 8 on the front wall 25% positions both vert and horizontal. I've seen Keith Yates do quad stacks in front corners at time too, although the rooms specifics played into those no doubt. by front and rear wall do you mean a DBA with four singles in both front and back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

You can always add more later smile.gif

Yeah, but the volume of air won't be there....It's the extra concrete, steel, labor to build that area that's taking the hit...adding woofers would be easy, but creating the space isn't going to be an option.
post #329 of 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Yeah, but the volume of air won't be there....It's the extra concrete, steel, labor to build that area that's taking the hit...adding woofers would be easy, but creating the space isn't going to be an option.
What if you use the outside as your IB "box" the neighbors won't mind one bit!biggrin.gif
post #330 of 675
No dba, just distributed multi-sub approach, utilizing null mode placement and time alignment

A dba uses half the capability merely for lessening modal influences, ala pitch and catch
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › SI 24z build....8 of em'