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Forget 4K-All I want is 1080P with no glare

post #1 of 124
Thread Starter 
Is that so much to ask for?

I am looking to upgrade my Panny LCD which is 5 years old, 32 inch 720P and matte non reflective screen.

Everything I have seen has glare!

Why isn't non-glare considered a feature?

Most of the time the tv isn't even on. So most of the time I would have a big black mirror in my living room. I don't want a big black mirror in my living room. My tv sits between my two stereo speakers, when I am just listening to music, I don't want to look at a reflection of myself just listening to music.

And when the tv is on, I don't want to see the wall behind me on the screen.

Solutions? So far here is what I have come up with-

Don't get a new tv
Don't get a big tv...just go a little bigger like 40 inch, it will be a mirror, just not a really big mirror
Don't put it in the living room...put the big mirror in another room where it won't be so obnoxious

Still, I would rather get a 1080P led lcd a little bigger with a little better picture with a non reflective screen.
post #2 of 124
Sharp had a few sets with Motheye anti reflective screen over in Japan, with their xl9 series and their 4K model, but they removed it for their the US models. It looked promising, but maybe to costly for US market?

post #3 of 124
Thread Starter 
Phillips also used the moth eye filter for a non US, non inexpensive model. From a review....

" 46PFL9707 in fact has another even more unique feature which delighted us: the Moth Eye filter. The microscopic structure of the filter allows light to be diffused across a wider area on the panel, posing less of a threat to the image.

The vivid, clean nature of the pictures this allows the Philips 9707 to present is genuinely special: we’re so used to seeing latent reflections on TV screens – even LCDs, but especially Plasmas, which can suffer greatly in bright rooms – when we view them in brighter environments, that to some extent, we do our best to mentally tune them out.

So, seeing the 46PFL9707T’s images, which are actually free of them, is an eye-opening experience. You can watch this display in a light-flooded room, and the picture will appear remarkably lucid and free of distracting reflections. We usually recommend LED LCD televisions for use in bright rooms, but this is especially the case with the Philips 46PFL9707. It’s probably the best bright-room HDTV we’ve ever tested."
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/philips-46pfl9707-201304042732.htm

Sounds like my cup of tea.
post #4 of 124
Thread Starter 
Short Sharp demo of moth eye, pretty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J60SxbRw3s
post #5 of 124
I have never understood why any TV manufacturer even considered having reflecting screens, and now it has even become a standard.

My three PC monitors are all of them non-reflective with no reflective front glass.

Why is it so impossible to make TVs like that?
post #6 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

I have never understood why any TV manufacturer even considered having reflecting screens, and now it has even become a standard.

My three PC monitors are all of them non-reflective with no reflective front glass.

Why is it so impossible to make TVs like that?
Reflective screens have a sharper, higher contrast image, with lower glare than matte panels. Matte panels do not avoid reflections - they just have less intense specular reflections, with a lot of diffused glare.

With a glossy panel, you can change often the angle of screen or your seating position and avoid direct reflections to have a nice vivid high contrast image.
Even if you change your position to avoid direct reflections with a matte panel, the image is still washed out and low contrast in a bright room.

Matte panel:
MBA1un0.jpg

Glossy panel:
av00wtB.jpg

The reflection is problematic on both screens, but handled better by the glossy panel.
Repositioned to avoid those direct reflections:
WEuHgh6.jpg


Glare from a lamp at night.

Matte:
lmzfUqC.jpg

Glossy:
fBC43lO.jpg

I find the glossy reflection easier to ignore.


Note: these are not my images, another user posted them here a few years back after complaining about glare on his matte Sharp TV.
post #7 of 124
Thread Starter 
Chronoptomist-

My 5 or 6 year old Panny LCD doesn't reflect light. Your matte example is not representative of my situation, but of screens from a few years later.

Additionally, there is one picture missing....what the tv looks like in the living room with the tv turned off. I don't want a black mirror in my living room.

Take a look at the youtube of the moth eye feature. The consumer needs to speak up and say NO to glare.
post #8 of 124
There's no doubt that motheye would be a huge step forwards, but when we have to choose between matte and glossy, I'll pick a glossy panel any day - well, I'll pick a display where the panel is optically bonded to a sheet of ar-coated glass. (Sony have been doing this for years, most manufacturers have air gaps between them)

I've never seen a matte panel that doesn't show reflections at all. They're often very diffused, but they do still reflect.
Three displays in a row under the same light.

The panel on the left (non-retina MacBook Pro) has an air gap and is not using ar-coated glass, the panel on the right (Retina MacBook Pro) is optically bonded to ar-coated glass:
2dCTKb8.jpg

The panel on the left is the Retina MacBook Pro again, the panel on the right is a matte non-retina MacBook Pro:
otKTjXi.jpg


Compare the menu bar text on both displays. The matte panel is so washed out and low contrast that you have difficulty reading it due to the glare. The Retina MacBook Pro has a much higher contrast image and is much easier to read.

The exception to this rule is when the light is so bright that the backlight is effectively useless, and what's actually lighting the panel is the external source, e.g. outdoors:
VATXEIC.jpg

This is not indicative of typical home viewing conditions though, even in a "bright" sunlit room.


Source
post #9 of 124
My old Sony RP LCD TV had a nice flat matte screen & almost no reflections. It did not behave anything like the examples shown above.

Outside light did wash out the TV picture a bit, but depending on how bright the light was it usually was not even noticeable. My current glossy screen is a lot more objectionable. My family room & kitchen are open to each other & with a kitchen ceiling light on I see this big white refrigerator reflection in the TV screen. It was barely noticeable with the matte screen Sony.. And I also see the wood oak cabinets reflected in the screen which I never saw that with the Sony. The glossy screen does look better if all the lights are off & I'm watching in a dark room, but I don't enjoy that. Turn on a light & the glossy screen reflects everything in the kitchen. A glossy picture is no good if it's ruined by reflections.

My PC monitor is flat matte & I do not see any reflections under normal conditions. If I shine a flashlight at it there is some reflection, but that's not how I use it.

It's obviously a personal preference but not everyone likes glossy screens.
post #10 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

Chronoptomist-

My 5 or 6 year old Panny LCD doesn't reflect light. Your matte example is not representative of my situation, but of screens from a few years later.

Additionally, there is one picture missing....what the tv looks like in the living room with the tv turned off. I don't want a black mirror in my living room.

Take a look at the youtube of the moth eye feature. The consumer needs to speak up and say NO to glare.

Take a look at this product. I looked into it but did not want to spend approx $100 & stick a film on a new TV screen made out of plastic.

http://hdguru.com/nushield-solves-a-glaring-hdtv-problem/

http://www.nushield.com/?source=citiesgen&gclid=CKSg2ez0hbsCFecRMwod8X0APA
post #11 of 124
I've seen those anti-glare/reflective products before. Personally, I'd NEVER put something like that on my tv no matter how good the marketing said it was. Too easy to screw something up in the installation process and who knows what happens overtime. The only thing I put on my panel is a clean microfiber cloth and distilled water. But, my panel has a matte finish so it's a moot point.
post #12 of 124
After using the Dell 30" 2560x1600 monitor with a matte screen and not ever realizing it then switching to a glossy screen, I want to file criminal charges against Dell...

However i understand your need for it. Wouldn't that new form of glass, which allowed all light to go through and not bounce off be off help for this situation, killing too birds with one stone? I saw it previewed online from one of the popular trade shows last year or the year before.
post #13 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

Is that so much to ask for?

I am looking to upgrade my Panny LCD which is 5 years old, 32 inch 720P and matte non reflective screen.

Everything I have seen has glare!

Why isn't non-glare considered a feature?
 
I agree. I hate glossy/non-matte screens. One of the reasons I haven't bought a new TV is cause everything has glossy screens.

 

I refuse to buy non-matte screens on computer monitors too. It's hard to find a laptop with matte.
post #14 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

Chronoptomist-

My 5 or 6 year old Panny LCD doesn't reflect light. Your matte example is not representative of my situation...

I agree. The matte screens I have outperform glossy for glare. With computers especially where I can't always control the light as well as home theater room, glossy is awful. I've reached the point where I can't even use the computer if it has glossy screen.

 

TV is marginally better cause it's not mobile. But still matte is much nicer IMHO.

post #15 of 124
post #16 of 124
Thread Starter 
Moth eye, anti glare glass, I will take either over what they are currently offering. Can I hold out for another two years? I don't know.
My fear is that they will bundle anti glare with expensive 4K displays only, to make the case for 4K more compelling.
post #17 of 124
It's amazing that no mfr. has prioritized making a no-glare screen that doesn't have huge compromises. It's doable and easily demonstrated in every retail store in America. It would sell.
post #18 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's amazing that no mfr. has prioritized making a no-glare screen that doesn't have huge compromises. It's doable and easily demonstrated in every retail store in America. It would sell.

Totally agree. They could have at least issued some sort of press release saying that glare free screens were being discontinued.

I had been considering the Samsung 6300, this is from the 6300 thread....

"Do any of you find the glare bothersome when watching tv in an overhead lit room? Most dark scenes are hard to make out for me. Of course I can turn the light off but it makes doing other things at the same time a bit tricky."
post #19 of 124
Thread Starter 
and on OLED too...

LG 55EA9800 OLED TV
Pros: Incredible contrast, excellent clarity, very photo realistic
Cons: Very reflective screen
post #20 of 124
I put off buying a new HDTV because of the glossy screens. They used to be matte, but over the last few years more & more changed to glossy.

I ended up with a Samsung 6150 series (the club version of the 6100). It was pretty typical of the current crop of LED/LCD sets. I looked at the newer Samsungs, but chose the 6150 because the bezel was less glossy and the stand was black. The newer models had a more reflective bezel & a gray or silver stand.

I did find & tried last year's model of a Sharp which was a little bit less glossy than the Samsung, But my wife & I found it irritating to watch. I did adjust a lot of the settings but to no avail. It was either the motion or the size, I'm not sure, but we did not like it.

So I frequently cover the refrigerator in the other room to reduce its reflectance in the TV screen. It's really crappy to have to resort to such a measure.

If manufacturers are trying to emulate a real theater look in my home "theater" they sure missed the mark because I've never been to a real theater that had a glossy screen and/or frame/bezel.

I did add a rear bias light which I use when watching dark movies such as outer space or alien type ones. The dark scenes show more reflections than light scenes. So I turn on the bias light & turn off all other lights & this works quite well. My bias light throws off quite a bit of light & illuminates the wall behind the TV which also adds some ambient light to the room & therefore I don't feel like I'm watching TV in a dark cave. And there are no reflections because the light source is behind the TV.

It's a shame I have to do all this just watch TV but I don't have much of a choice.
post #21 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

I've reached the point where I can't even use the computer if it has glossy screen.

Agree! We should at least have a choice. All the consumer laptops have glossy screens it seems. One has to go to the business ones to find anti-glare. I just bought an HP business notebook to replace my HP workstation (which I purchased for the same reason.) And I like my large Samsung DLP because it's not reflective/glossy (of course) - and am realizing I'm in for some pain when/if I need to replace it before there's an alternative for someone w/ my preferences/needs.
post #22 of 124

I repair PCs for free, and once in a while I'll end up with one of the Dell super duper uber glossy screens and it drives me freaking batty and I don't need to be outside.

 

In fact, if I'm wearing a white shirt in a regularly lit room, forget it.  It's so distracting.

 

"Contrast" (pun) that with the 2006 no-frills matte screen I have on my laptop right now and everything is readable unless the sun is shining directly on it.

 

I don't see glossy screens as anything other than a theoretical or pedantic-scientist win.

 

IRL, they just are horrible.

post #23 of 124
Thread Starter 
Here is an example from the fireplace thread. It's not just when the TV is on that I object to it...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/781476/flat-panel-over-fireplace-discomforting/270#post_24097954

look how clearly you can see the christmas tree reflected in the screen.
post #24 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I repair PCs for free, and once in a while I'll end up with one of the Dell super duper uber glossy screens and it drives me freaking batty and I don't need to be outside. In fact, if I'm wearing a white shirt in a regularly lit room, forget it.  It's so distracting. "Contrast" (pun) that with the 2006 no-frills matte screen I have on my laptop right now and everything is readable unless the sun is shining directly on it. I don't see glossy screens as anything other than a theoretical or pedantic-scientist win. IRL, they just are horrible.

Kinda OT - Several months ago i was shopping for a new laptop computer and i could not find one with a matte screen - they're all glossy and super reflective now. So i bought one anyway and found it almost impossible to see in a bright room and outside where my old (but now dead) matte laptop was fine. I googled around and found Glarestopper dot com and ordered a matte Anti-Glare screen film from them and it works fantastic on my laptop! Huge huge improvement, and now i can use it outside.

I also have two small Supersonic 13.3" LED LCD TVs that i use as video monitors and they are also glossy and super reflective, so i ordered a glare stopper for one of them and it now looks like my older matte LCD TVs. It takes a little time to apply it to the screen, but the finished product is great.

https://www.glarestopper.com/
post #25 of 124
Thread Starter 
The antiglare film begs the question, if it works so well why don't manufacturers use it?
post #26 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

The antiglare film begs the question, if it works so well why don't manufacturers use it?
A significant portion of matte LCD panels on the market are simply panels with an anti-glare film applied at the factory.
post #27 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

A significant portion of matte LCD panels on the market are simply panels with an anti-glare film applied at the factory.

So apparently 3 or 4 years ago all the manufacturers made the decision to stop applying the anti-glare film. The "matte" panels we see today have plenty of glare. There are no non-glare LCDs being sold in the States.
post #28 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

So apparently 3 or 4 years ago all the manufacturers made the decision to stop applying the anti-glare film. The "matte" panels we see today have plenty of glare. There are no non-glare LCDs being sold in the States.
With the better panels, the film has been replaced with AR-coated glass which is bonded to the LCD panel. (Sony LCDs, Apple's Retina MacBooks, and the latest iMacs)
Cheaper displays do simply lack the matte film over the panel, and worse, some displays have a clear sheet of glass which is not bonded to the panel.
post #29 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post
If manufacturers are trying to emulate a real theater look in my home "theater" they sure missed the mark because I've never been to a real theater that had a glossy screen and/or frame/bezel.

Thank you!

 

I was thinking along these lines whilst at the cinema the other evening.  I just recently purchased a Samsung UN55F7100.  It's shiny and has lots of bells and whistles, and my family likes it alot.  However, did I mention it's shiny? (read: glossy)  Booo!

 

I much prefer my older Samsung, (matte screen  LN46C630).

post #30 of 124
Sorry, I'm a little late to the thread here.

I was recently scouring through the forums trying to find a solution to glare and reflection as we decided to change the house around after Christmas and the only thing I didn't think of was TV placement and glare/reflection. I finally have my ultimate setup including 7.1 surround, PS4, Xbox 1 and my 60 inch Panny GT30. I sit down to watch and all I can see is the bay window directly behind the seating area and across from the TV. %&*@$# WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT.

So I looked through all the forums and found a few options. Most of which were about $350.00 plus shipping. I came across this one glare stopper. It was on sale is custom cut and was $85.00 plus shipping. I live in Canada so the shipping was a little high $32.00 but is free in the States.

I figured what the hell, I'd rather throw away $120.00 for something that might work rather than $3-400.00 but I seriously have my doubts. Website claims it will reduce 90% of glare and reflection.

I just received it, applied it as per the instructions. You must take your time, follow their instructions, and have a helper or bubbles are going to be a pain in the ass. (Think screen protector for smart phone 20x's the size.

Got it and applied today and I am blown away. This thing works way better than I thought it would. Where there was a perfect image (reflection) of lights (at night) and a window during the day is a very subtle glow only noticeable in dark scenes. I can not tell you how happy I am with this. I highly recommend and can not give a good enough of a review for it.

You can check my postings, I am not with the company (not even in same country lol) and am a legit forum member feel free to message me. (I am always sceptical about glowing reviews smile.gif )

www.glarestopper.com

Seriously if you have glare of reflection problems check this out. Amazing, but make sure to take your time, clean your screen and deal with bubbles as you go or the bubbles will suck.
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