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'True Detective' on HBO HD - Page 20

post #571 of 1340


I think the temperature dropped 30 degrees in my HT room when Cohle said.
post #572 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post



I think the temperature dropped 30 degrees in my HT room when Cohle said.
I thought at the time he was just saying what I was thinking.....then, I remembered he is a cop.eek.gif
post #573 of 1340
post #574 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I thought at the time he was just saying what I was thinking.....then, I remembered he is a cop.eek.gif
I'm not convinced he said it because he felt she was a horrible human being but that she obviously had some deep psychological issues and that she should just end it all by killing herself. In Cohle's world view, humans shouldn't be around anyway, she has problems, so it would likely be easier for her to off herself than others who think they have a reason for being alive. It was like he was doing her a favor, a way out of her personal hell, a hell where he believes she shouldn't even have existed in in the first place.
Edited by keenan - 2/24/14 at 5:12pm
post #575 of 1340
Except that foreplay is just as much mental as physical. Her thoughts and fantasies before hand (on the way over and before) may have been enough. After all she clearly orchestrated the encounter. And then, as has been mentioned, Cohle could have been nursing fantasies for some time-but when she crossed the threshold of his physical defenses (his apartment), she also breached his psychological defenses. Anyone care to speculate about about why he chose to enter her from the rear and intentionally or unintentionally not have to look into her face.
post #576 of 1340
^^^^ easier if standing up? wink.gif
post #577 of 1340
Pardon my curiosity (if it needs a pardon) but I'd love to be educated on why this show is getting
the degree a fawning over - acting? or format? or whatever.

Agree, it's interesting and promoted as such. Agree MM is good doing his thing in this, and so is
Mr. Harrelson. The duel timeline? OK Been done, we get it. The Male centric Cop Thing, Check!

The Keep Away from obvious while inserting obvious? OK, we get that, but WHY is this different?

Why are so many of you in this forum and critics as well, ready to literally give MM a BJ over this role
on this specific series? It's the same MM performance we've seen before.

What Gives? Any Takers?
post #578 of 1340
post #579 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post


Friggin' awesome...
post #580 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

Pardon my curiosity (if it needs a pardon) but I'd love to be educated on why this show is getting
the degree a fawning over - acting? or format? or whatever.

Agree, it's interesting and promoted as such. Agree MM is good doing his thing in this, and so is
Mr. Harrelson. The duel timeline? OK Been done, we get it. The Male centric Cop Thing, Check!

The Keep Away from obvious while inserting obvious? OK, we get that, but WHY is this different?

Why are so many of you in this forum and critics as well, ready to literally give MM a BJ over this role
on this specific series? It's the same MM performance we've seen before.

What Gives? Any Takers?

Literally?


Edited by HD Hockey Guy - 2/24/14 at 8:43pm
post #581 of 1340
Thanx for the link....good stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I'm not convinced he said it because he felt she was a horrible human being but that she obviously had some deep psychological issues and that she should just end it all by killing herself. In Cohle's world view, humans shouldn't be around anyway, she has problems, so it would likely be easier for her to off herself than others who think they have a reason for being alive. It was like he was doing her a favor, a way out of her personal hell, a hell where he believes she shouldn't even have existed in in the first place.
I couldn't agree more....you nailed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

Pardon my curiosity (if it needs a pardon) but I'd love to be educated on why this show is getting
the degree a fawning over - acting? or format? or whatever.

Agree, it's interesting and promoted as such. Agree MM is good doing his thing in this, and so is
Mr. Harrelson. The duel timeline? OK Been done, we get it. The Male centric Cop Thing, Check!

The Keep Away from obvious while inserting obvious? OK, we get that, but WHY is this different?

Why are so many of you in this forum and critics as well, ready to literally give MM a BJ over this role
on this specific series? It's the same MM performance we've seen before.

What Gives? Any Takers?
I'll try to field that one, Eric.

IMO and FWIW.....there are several things going in this series that makes it stand out from the normal fare.
1) Big-time Movie Stars.

2) Gritty modern noir, with excellent writing, performances, cinematography, and soundtrack.

3) It's right in the title: TRUE DETECTIVE.
What do I mean?

This series is, groundbreakingly IMO, challenging the audience to actively get involved and BE the "True Detective."
All of these clues, red herrings, misdirection, half-remembered recollections, dreams, lies were put in place to bring the viewers in to solve these crimes and mysteries.
Which is why it seems everyone here has a different theories on what the he!! is REALLY going on; we are all trying to BE the True Detective.wink.gif

This is what makes TD magic.
post #582 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Thanx for the link....good stuff.

Yeah, Michelle Monaghan's insights about her character and the show were fascinating.

Quote:
IMO and FWIW.....there are several things going in this series that makes it stand out from the normal fare.
1) Big-time Movie Stars.

2) Gritty modern noir, with excellent writing, performances, cinematography, and soundtrack.

3) It's right in the title: TRUE DETECTIVE.
What do I mean?

This series is, groundbreakingly IMO, challenging the audience to actively get involved and BE the "True Detective."
All of these clues, red herrings, misdirection, half-remembered recollections, dreams, lies were put in place to bring the viewers in to solve these crimes and mysteries.
Which is why it seems everyone here has a different theories on what the he!! is REALLY going on; we are all trying to BE the True Detective.wink.gif

This is what makes TD magic.

Indeed! The best noir is always focused on the journey, not the destination. That's what's going on in True Detective, I think. In its early episodes there were scenes that were, by necessity, static and a little talky. That was leavened, however, because the talk not only gave us vital insights into Rust and Marty but, in Rust's case at least, was often lyrically beautiful. As the season has gone on it has been getting better and better. Unless it fumbles of the 10 yard line (which I don't expect will happen) it seems to me, we are watching a television show for the ages.
post #583 of 1340
Quote:
Maggie’s dad was on the list we compiled.
Oh, my gosh. People are really into the show and it’s a great thing.

Hmmm her reaction seems a little dismissive no? I thought that was a good guess as being involved when brought up yesterday too given the "right under your nose" type comments.
post #584 of 1340
Emily Nussbaum didn't have a whole lot to say about the show that was good:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

She's a pretty good TV critic. I can see her point on a lot of her objections.
post #585 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Emily Nussbaum didn't have a whole lot to say about the show that was good:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

She's a pretty good TV critic. I can see her point on a lot of her objections.

Reading as much as I could manage, she obviously is a hardcore feminist with an axe grinding here. Nothing to see here...move on.tongue.gif
post #586 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorted View Post

Reading as much as I could manage, she obviously is a hardcore feminist with an axe grinding here. Nothing to see here...move on.tongue.gif

Critics being critical...

My take was similar but I'm not sure if she deserves the feminist label without knowing her other criticisms of shows. She just seems to not be a fan of gratuitous nudity of women which is a hallmark of HBO series if nobody noticed. It's not like the producers get to make the show without HBO execs guiding the process and they know what sells subscriptions. Personally, I think shows like Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire and True Detective would be just as good without the nudity so I'm not going to rate the shows worse for including it. She apparently does however as it's not contributing to the plot directly and thus just eye candy. Some people like candy even though it's not nutritious. *unwraps hershey kiss*
post #587 of 1340
I can see why some wouldn't like this show. Most people lack depth in their own personalities, where Rustin is very smart and thought more than most. When he told Martin to go type the report it wasn't a power struggle, it was that Rustin is just has more talent and gifts. Most depressives like him are always telling the truth and living in a nightmare. When people post or write articles that don't get it are not great thinkers. The depth of this show is the best I've ever watched, and is the best season of TV I've ever watched.
post #588 of 1340
It's true that the show isn't terribly sympathetic to women, portraying most of them to be prostitutes or possessing a healthy sexual appetite. But really not shying away from showing the sex gives a full picture of the nature of the relationships these men have. And this show is shown from the point of view of two men with serious women issues looking for a serial killer of women. These are the women in their worlds. And I would argue Maggie's character is complex, though one could argue this has more to do with Michelle Monaghan's subtle performance than with the words on the page of the script.

And the arty babble Rust comes up with is not really meant to convey deep thoughts (though some deep thoughts bubble through now and then). It shows where he is coming from as a damaged individual.
post #589 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Emily Nussbaum didn't have a whole lot to say about the show that was good:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

She's a pretty good TV critic. I can see her point on a lot of her objections.

I don't know. She does have some points, most critics do, that's their job, but her critique seems a bit jaded. However, the BBC series she mentions, "The Fall" sounds interesting as a contrast.
post #590 of 1340
This show has nothing to do about degrading women. What it is about is the flaws of the human race in desperate need of healing.
post #591 of 1340
It just keeps getting better. The Wife and I are enjoying it for sure, she loves the "detective" part of it, also MM smile.gif
post #592 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Yeah, Michelle Monaghan's insights about her character and the show were fascinating.
Indeed! The best noir is always focused on the journey, not the destination. That's what's going on in True Detective, I think.
+1

Quote:
In its early episodes there were scenes that were, by necessity, static and a little talky. That was leavened, however, because the talk not only gave us vital insights into Rust and Marty but, in Rust's case at least, was often lyrically beautiful.
Another function of the "static and talky" interview room is to create the illlusion the VIEWER is in the room itself.
The POV of the fixed camera is the same as that of the 2 black detectives.
YOU are the interviewer/interrogator, YOU are across the table from Rust & Marty.
YOU are the "true detective."wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post

She just seems to not be a fan of gratuitous nudity of women which is a hallmark of HBO series if nobody noticed. It's not like the producers get to make the show without HBO execs guiding the process and they know what sells subscriptions. Personally, I think shows like Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire and True Detective would be just as good without the nudity so I'm not going to rate the shows worse for including it. She apparently does however as it's not contributing to the plot directly and thus just eye candy. Some people like candy even though it's not nutritious. *unwraps hershey kiss*
In NO WAY would I consider the nudity/faux sex to be "gratuitous" in nature.

I do admit most of the time in shows on HBO, Showtime, etc. it does seem to be, but not here.
It serves a real purpose dramatically....a rarity, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

This show has nothing to do about degrading women. What it is about is the flaws of the human race in desperate need of healing.
Agreed.
post #593 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorted View Post

The motivations for the scene were not "ridiculous" to me, but the mechanics were. Throwing her against the bar, dropping trow and getting it on with virtually zero foreplay from two characters very rational otherwise in their depictions is utterly unbelievable to this viewer. A real hiccup in a great series.

I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole, but suffice it to say that scene brought back memories for me. wink.gif

Because of that I found it completely believable.
post #594 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Emily Nussbaum didn't have a whole lot to say about the show that was good:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

She's a pretty good TV critic. I can see her point on a lot of her objections.

I read her review and it seems to me has an axe to grind. She mentions all the women characters are "paper thin" but fails to reveal that the ONLY character development to speak of is the two protagonists.
post #595 of 1340
Oh no doubt, the scene against the bar/counter top was very believable to me.....I feel bad for those who say it isn't.
post #596 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonoughDawg View Post

Oh no doubt, the scene against the bar/counter top was very believable to me.

Yep, absolutely. Look at how she came in with a bottle of wine - she knew what she had to do but wasn't sure how to do it. She saw that Cohle was already drinking/drunk. Hormones were high and they already had established some mutual respect and attraction (albeit non-sexually) in earlier episodes.

For those of you who are in relationships, you know that the first rule of not cheating is to never let yourself be alone with a woman you're attracted to (that isn't your wife). The two of them were in a no-win situation as soon as they got together, and they knew it. Both of them were fighting shame and guilt against their desire. His already guilty conscience was exacerbated at the end when she admitted she only slept with him to get back at her husband and force a divorce. (Hey everyone - not the best way to get a divorce if you need one).

I found it wholly believable, depressing and heartbreaking.
post #597 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonoughDawg View Post

Oh no doubt, the scene against the bar/counter top was very believable to me.....I feel bad for those who say it isn't.

No kidding. Who hasn't had a cop's wife come over and jump your bones? smile.gif

Of course, they usually weigh twice as much.
post #598 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Emily Nussbaum didn't have a whole lot to say about the show that was good:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/03/03/140303crte_television_nussbaum

She's a pretty good TV critic. I can see her point on a lot of her objections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorted View Post

Reading as much as I could manage, she obviously is a hardcore feminist with an axe grinding here. Nothing to see here...move on.tongue.gif

I see her point as well. The show works well as a noir piece but it doesn't have any redeeming characters, male or female. The female characters are basic nothings.
There are other examples like Sin City that also had almost no redeeming characters and played most women as sex objects and yet had several female characters with substance.
So I think her points are valid. Hopefully, in the future the series (since it is going to totally reset each year) corrects that.
post #599 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post


In NO WAY would I consider the nudity/faux sex to be "gratuitous" in nature.

I do admit most of the time in shows on HBO, Showtime, etc. it does seem to be, but not here.
It serves a real purpose dramatically....a rarity, IMO.
Agreed.

Outside the Maggie and Cohle scene in the last episode, I think the other sex scenes with Hart were easily achieved without needing all the nudity. The plot could have been advanced with off camera innuendo or taking us right up to the "deed" being done. I don't mind seeing it but it wasn't needed imo and thus becomes more indulgence than essential. In fact I would say the Maggie scene would have been even more powerful if we hadn't already been shown Hart taking his hero's reward from the former rescue earlier in the episode and the fact that we saw no "naughty parts" on Maggie yet the encounter played out just as raw if not more emotional than the others proves you don't have to go topless to make an impact when done right.

Again, not condemning it, but I can understand how a critic would see most the T&A as further objectifying women in a pretty harsh tale to begin with. (but I don't agree that's a valid reason to ignore the fantastic other 98% of the series thus far).

Her axe is dull in my book regardless.
post #600 of 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambe View Post

Yep, absolutely. Look at how she came in with a bottle of wine - she knew what she had to do but wasn't sure how to do it. She saw that Cohle was already drinking/drunk. Hormones were high and they already had established some mutual respect and attraction (albeit non-sexually) in earlier episodes.

For those of you who are in relationships, you know that the first rule of not cheating is to never let yourself be alone with a woman you're attracted to (that isn't your wife). The two of them were in a no-win situation as soon as they got together, and they knew it. Both of them were fighting shame and guilt against their desire. His already guilty conscience was exacerbated at the end when she admitted she only slept with him to get back at her husband and force a divorce. (Hey everyone - not the best way to get a divorce if you need one).

I found it wholly believable, depressing and heartbreaking.

Well said.
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