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Looks like Rythmik and PSA got away with not having a Black Friday sale...

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
I was looking forward to this Black Friday because my system is just 1 subwoofer away from being complete. I was glad to see that SVS, Hsu-Research and Outlaw participated. I am particularly impressed with Hsu as almost all levels of their subwoofer line are discounted. Good job!

However, looks like Rythmik and PSA got away with not having a Black Friday sale... I guess I will just have to hold off the purchase till I can actually install my system then.
post #2 of 40
LOL It's hard to have a Black Friday sale when they're waking out the door.

To complete your system, what subwoofer are you wanting?
post #3 of 40
Thread Starter 
I am seriously considering PSA's XV-15 but if Rythmik were to have a sale on FV15HP, I will just take the plunge. This is coming from someone who started out with a budget of just $1200 for the 5 channels and the AV receiver. I am already $950 over my budget. If not for the Polk friends and family sale, I would still have nothing, and I could not care less if there is a sale or not.

Now, do these major ID companies need an excuse for a sale? I mean home theater world is not exactly main stream market you know... Black Friday sale is perfect for the way we home theater aficionado make our purchases.
post #4 of 40
These guys are having trouble keeping their subs in stock. Forums such as this forum, keep interest high.

That's a big spread between a FV15HP and a XV15. What emotional need do you expect your subwoofer choice to fill? I don't expect Rythmik to be having a sale as they're almost out of their current inventory of FV15HPs. At this level of performance, one is best served just buying and installing the stupid thing. In my opinion, the FV15HP is the top dog of it's price point but two XV15s will give it a run for it's money in the >16Hz range. For smoothing purposes, two subs are always better than one. But two XV15s are about two hundred dollars more than one FV15HP.

OTOH, the FV15HP, out performs the XV15 in the <16Hz range and as with everything, one pays for performance.
post #5 of 40
Thread Starter 
I averaged the DATABASS' CEA-2010 Max Burst numbers from 16Hz to 63Hz of the various ID offering to come up with performance values and divided them by their respective prices. I found that currently Rythmik FV15HP, PSA XV-15 and Outlaw's LFM-1EX are the value leaders. So much so, that FV15HP costing 77% more than XV-15, also performs roughly 77% better than VX-15. Yes, 1 FV15HP will cruch 1 XV-15 but 2 XV-15s will also out-perform 1 FV15HP. To me, if Rythmik FV15HP goes on sale while XV-15 does not, the former becomes the value leader and vice versa.
post #6 of 40
There's always a chance for Cyber Monday right? Although it doesn't feel like it at times, sporting a very basic 2-channel setup at the moment, but having sold my old setup to rebuild from scratch has put me in the market for just about everything. That puts me in the [arguably] enviable position to wait for the ideal time to jump in on a variety of gear whether it be a new product line, a great sale, etc. I'm sure as my new stack is built out I'll be more driven to fill in the weaker or more fun bits like subs while I research all the while. That said, no category in my lineup has just one contender (no more so than in the sub realm), so all it would take would be a nice sale to break the stalemate. Then again, with holiday expenses and all, perhaps it's a merciful fate that the lack of sales would spare our wallets.
post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckychuck7 View Post

So much so, that FV15HP costing 77% more than XV-15, also performs roughly 77% better than VX-15. Yes, 1 FV15HP will cruch 1 XV-15 but 2 XV-15s will also out-perform 1 FV15HP. To me, if Rythmik FV15HP goes on sale while XV-15 does not, the former becomes the value leader and vice versa.

You're missing a couple of points. First, the sub 16Hz performance of the FV15HP. Second, your leaving out the Amp the FV15HP uses with it's accompanying "Direct Servo" technology.

Again, one expects to pay for performance. Myself? I'm going with two FV15HPs, with an eye on a third because in my opinion, it's worth it. But at no time, do I show disrespect towards PSA's XV15s as they definitely qualify as a "value" play.

It's not about value. Why? Because it's about price/performance which is not synonymous with "value leader."

As encouragement, while you're still worried about "value leader", I'll be enjoying watching the "Big Dog" running around in our living room. tongue.gif

("I've been all over this animal looking for fleas")
post #8 of 40
Just to be clear 2 XV15's are 1518.10 Shipped. A FV15HP is 1416.00 shipped. That equals 102.10 difference not a couple hundred.
post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Just to be clear 2 XV15's are 1518.10 Shipped. A FV15HP is 1416.00 shipped. That equals 102.10 difference not a couple hundred.

I didn't include the discount for buying two XV15's

(busted)

...eek.gif

(he knows....he's has three XV15s)

...tongue.gif
post #10 of 40
Thread Starter 
The biggest reason I am still holding out is I just entered escrow with my future house. I have been house hunting for the past 6 months or so and every home theater purchase I made so far is premature to me. The Polk friends and families sale was the last straw for my 5 channels purchase. I got the AVR in order to to ensure that the speakers I got are not defective. The speakers and the AVR I got are now in boxes at the corner of my living room waiting to exhale. I am still waiting for the last straw for subwoofer. tongue.gif
post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckychuck7 View Post

The biggest reason I am still holding out is I just entered escrow with my future house. I have been house hunting for the past 6 months or so and every home theater purchase I made so far is premature to me. The Polk friends and families sale was the last straw for my 5 channels purchase. I got the AVR in order to to ensure that the speakers I got are not defective. The speakers and the AVR I got are now in boxes at the corner of my living room waiting to exhale. I am still waiting for the last straw for subwoofer. tongue.gif

Close escrow and get moved in. Set the house up (including your Home Theater set) and then order your subwoofer. No hurry. Don't matter. Congrats on your home purchase. May it be an uneventful close. biggrin.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/30/13 at 12:23pm
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

It's not about value. Why? Because it's about price/performance which is not synonymous with "value leader."

I'd argue that "value" to most means the best investment per dollar with the fewest tradeoffs and is not exclusive of anything you've cited as contrary to this goal. The notion of "value" includes all aspects of performance [weighted to each person's own subjective criteria] and where the candidates lie on the curve of diminishing returns. Some will consider servos, various cone materials, cabinet designs, amps, etc. to be worth the extra expenditure whereas other may justifiably play their value card to pocket the difference for what they perceive as minor gains between competing models that are otherwise widely considered peers.
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by normtim View Post

I'd argue that "value" to most means the best investment per dollar with the fewest tradeoffs and is not exclusive of anything you've cited as contrary to this goal. The notion of "value" includes all aspects of performance [weighted to each person's own subjective criteria] and where the candidates lie on the curve of diminishing returns. Some will consider servos, various cone materials, cabinet designs, amps, etc. to be worth the extra expenditure whereas other may justifiably play their value card to pocket the difference for what they perceive as minor gains between competing models that are otherwise widely considered peers.

Value also includes getting what you want and everybody knows, you get what you pay for and nobody ever says, I sure wish I had bought less.
post #14 of 40
dbl post.
post #15 of 40
Thread Starter 
Like I said, my calculations also support that that dollar for dollar, Rythmik FV15HP is the best there is, just like PSA's XV-15 or LFM-1 EX @ BF prices. Those who appreciate and can afford FV15HP would agree with me as well, as supported by how well this product is selling and how frequently it is recommended. However, we all have our priorities in life.

Take my co-worker for example, he has spent thousands of dollars on gun parts but he thinks a pound of Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee beans for $14 is over-priced.
Edited by chuckychuck7 - 11/30/13 at 2:49pm
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckychuck7 View Post

Like I said, my calculations also support that that dollar for dollar, Rythmik FV15HP is the best there is, just like PSA's XV-15 or LFM-1 EX @ BF prices. Those who appreciate and can afford FV15HP would agree with me as well, as supported by how well this product is selling and how frequently it is recommended. However, we all have our priorities in life.

Your 'calculations' only involve a single variable and is a poor standard by which to gauge performance. It would be like buying a car based on the 0-60 time and nothing else.
post #17 of 40
Yeah there's no way I can see either company offer either of these subs any lower then they are already priced at.

I like to say that "IF" you can see yourself buying a second FV15HP down the road then go with the FV15HP. BUT if you can't see yourself adding a second sub down the road I think you are better off getting two XV15's now because of the added benefits dual subs provide.
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Value also includes getting what you want and everybody knows, you get what you pay for and nobody ever says, I sure wish I had bought less.

"Everybody knows" and "nobody ever says" are pretty potent generalizations. Seeing as how I find myself none of that particular "everybody" and one of the cited "nobody" it would seem that painting in such broad strokes incurs some pretty crippling rounding errors right from the get-go. First off, paying more does not intrinsically guarantee greater value; at best one can hope that they get what they pay for. It's fair to say, though, that entire industries have been funded by perpetuating such simplistic notions so carry on if you truly think that way but it is far from universal fact. And some have surely said that they wish they had bought less; "buyers remorse" is a phrase invented for such occasions. More so, it's nigh universal that nearly everyone wishes they had paid less [and/or gotten more].

But debating semantics is a futile endeavor. My suggestion was that you might entertain the possibility that the OP's notion of value was relevant and well-considered and not in need of your "correction".

Anyway, I'll be keeping an eye out on my "Big 3" on Cyber Monday in the hopes of getting what I can pay less for. Truth be told, I partly fear that such a sale might genuinely entice me to exceed my already strained holiday expenditures; I may very well come to wish I had bought less!
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by normtim View Post

"Everybody knows" and "nobody ever says" are pretty potent generalizations.

No they're not as everybody knows the truth of what I posted.

(to be clear, assumptions are good, perfection is easily obtainable and I encourage everybody to paint life with any brush of their choosing)

I'll let you have the last philosophical point of view.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/1/13 at 4:25am
post #20 of 40
Thread Starter 
normtim, what Big 3 are you looking for?
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckychuck7 View Post

normtim, what Big 3 are you looking for?
If WAF and budget were not factors then, according to the "Your Home Theater ULF Score" thread, I'd need approximately one Triax per star (presuming "pressurization" is my goal). But barring any 2-for-1 sales on Triax subs, even a middling score would be well outside of my budget. The amount I've budgeted for subs has ratcheted up as I've familiarized myself with the current offerings and I think I've settled on an optimal value range for what my various goals are. My plan is to get a pair of whatever I go with but they cannot violate the WAF (so no nothing dorm fridge sized unless it comes in cordovan cherry). So with practical pressurization being out the window for me (music is my priority anyway), my plan is to cater to my preference towards sealed subs thus my candidate pool consists of: dual Rythmik F15HP's, dual PSA XS30's or dual SVS SB13U's. It's probably fair to say that the SVS option hasn't really been a candidate as its high price pushes it out of my value sweet spot but it's well regarded for music reproduction and a really good sale could make it a contender. Admittedly I've never quite let go of the idea of a pair of Rythmik F25's if only I could somehow minimize their WAF footprint, maybe by laying them down sideways perhaps...anything to make them less conspicuous. It's largely a moot point though since it sounds like they're unavailable until the latter part of Q1/2014. (Despite their size, a pair of PSA XV30's could be made WAF-friendly were it available in one of their veneered woods but it seems that these too are out of stock so I haven't invested much time into developing a sense as to how satisfying they'd be to someone preferring the characteristics of a sealed sub).

But take my shopping list with a grain of salt. None of these options make an appreciable dent on the ULF charts for me even when considering their ported counterparts; my endeavor is likely laughably to the "go big or go home" crowd. I've had a pair of 8" subs running in my space before which, despite being a fraction of the output of anything I'm considering, were a joy to have in my system so I question whether a high ULF score is something I should even be striving for. Whatever I get, I'm sure I'll love them but, of course, consider what is best for your space, budget, goals, WAF, etc. Thankfully it sounds like you've already got a plan and are just waiting to pounce on the right deal. If I catch any sales on Cyber Monday, I'll be sure to post them here.
post #22 of 40
To be honest. I wouldnt worry too much about your ULF score. Its about what makes you happy really and any of the choices you have listed will guarantee to make you happy. All the ulf thread will do is make you wonder what if. Just because my system is 2.5 doesnt mean it doesnt put a huge smile on my face everytime i fire it up. It iist means (and this is stating the obvious) there are much louder meaner setups than mine and the thread shows what i need to equal theirs if i wanted to

So again grab what you want/can afford and sit back and enjoy. There seems to be a lot less enjoyment going in in here lately and a lot more splitting hairs about what is better than what. Bottom line does it sound good to you?

Sorry for the rant smile.gif
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

To be honest. I wouldnt worry too much about your ULF score.

^^^ This from a guy who has XT32, a miniDSP and Emotiva Amps. tongue.gif

A suggestion, don't be quick to knock the ULF score away. The ULF score answers the enigmatic question, how much of what kind of subwoofer is enough and puts all subwoofers (ducks) in a row.

(Just saying, FWIW, hair splitting is a part of every hobby, not just Home Theater or subwoofers)

^^^ This from a guy who wishes he had XT32, a miniDSP and Emotiva Amps. tongue.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/1/13 at 1:16pm
post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

^^^ This from a guy who has XT32, a miniDSP and Emotiva Amps. tongue.gif

A suggestion, don't be quick to knock the ULF score away. The ULF score answers the enigmatic question, how much of what kind of subwoofer is enough and puts all subwoofers (ducks) in a row.

(Just saying, FWIW, hair splitting is a part of every hobby, not just Home Theater or subwoofers)

^^^ This from a guy who wishes he had XT32, a miniDSP and Emotiva Amps. tongue.gif

-
Haha

No I just meant to that OP that don't get too caught up in that ULF thread. It can drive you nuts. I mean me in particular i thought I finally had a monster sub( monster for me anyhow) but found out it was not so from that thread.

But for those just starting out it could drive you mad.

Trust me I spend a ton of time doing just that second guessing etc. After every purchase even if I'm totally satisfied i STIL read reviews etc.

smile.gif
post #25 of 40
The ULF thread finalized my choice as based on what it's telling me, I've made the right choice and unless something new (better) comes on the market, for our needs, I've got the best.
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I've got the best.
I wouldn't say that. The best at your price range, you should say smile.gif
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

To be honest. I wouldnt worry too much about your ULF score. Its about what makes you happy really and any of the choices you have listed will guarantee to make you happy. All the ulf thread will do is make you wonder what if. Just because my system is 2.5 doesnt mean it doesnt put a huge smile on my face everytime i fire it up. It iist means (and this is stating the obvious) there are much louder meaner setups than mine and the thread shows what i need to equal theirs if i wanted to

So again grab what you want/can afford and sit back and enjoy. There seems to be a lot less enjoyment going in in here lately and a lot more splitting hairs about what is better than what. Bottom line does it sound good to you?

Sorry for the rant smile.gif

If you read the ULF thread in depth it states that any system above 1.5 stars would be considered way above average, however this is AVS. So Imo there is nothing wrong with a 2.5 star system. Also the ULF thread is only comparing Ultra Low Frequency performance( sub 20hz), so yes I agree its a not a end all for determining subwoofer performance.
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The ULF thread finalized my choice as based on what it's telling me, I've made the right choice and unless something new (better) comes on the market, for our needs, I've got the best.

You do not have anything yet...quit getting ahead of yourself tongue.gif
post #29 of 40
Aren't these subs already a bargain at their regular price?
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

If you read the ULF thread in depth it states that any system above 1.5 stars would be considered way above average, however this is AVS. So Imo there is nothing wrong with a 2.5 star system. Also the ULF thread is only comparing Ultra Low Frequency performance( sub 20hz), so yes I agree its a not a end all for determining subwoofer performance.

yup I agree, and am very happy with the performance I get...but that little 2.5 (while like you said is way above avg) still says hey...you could be alot better haha. DAMN NUMBERS AND STATS!!! tongue.gif

and I do agree that the ULF is a great tool for purchasing. it lets you know ahead of time enough info to see how the subs will perform in your size room
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