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Panasonic Viera TCP50S60 or Sony Bravia KDL50R450? Please Help in buying new TV :)

Poll Results: Which TV would you recommend?

 
  • 75% (3)
    Panasonic Viera TCP50S60
  • 25% (1)
    Sony Bravia KDL50R450
4 Total Votes  
post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone! 

 

I am new to this forum, and after much research I cannot decide between plasma or led. The prices are not much different so that is not a factor in my decision but picture quality is of utmost importance.

 

I will be viewing the TV from 9-10 feet away. I will be using it mostly to watch media through my laptop connected through a HDMI cable. I will be watching Youtube videos, Netflix, etc.... I will also watch HD movies, and some TV shows like the Office once in a while.

 

As for the room setup, I have windows to the side of the room with Venetian blinds so I can block out light from outside easily.

 

I have one ceiling light in the room which provides lighting for the entire room, it is in the center of the room. The TV will be mounted in its direct path, however I do plan on installing a dimmer switch when I buy the TV.

 

My main issue with the Panasonic is the glare and based on my room setup, do you guys think it will be a problem?

 

Also, I do really enjoy keeping my windows open through the day, as the room is also my work space. I do not want to turn the room into a cave to watch the plasma.

 

I am also considering the 46" model of the Sony I provided - KDL46R450. I have read the Sony 46 inch models have better panels.

 

If you guys can provide your recommendation, I will highly appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

post #2 of 34
If you want to reduce glare, try an alternate version of an S60 called S64 which has the same anti reflective filter as the ST60. I have one and it's great to finally watch anything during the day.

As for the PQ, the S60 will win in a landslide victory, but I'll still list pros and cons.

S60 pros

+ sick, Sick, SICK black. Auto dimming LCDs like Samsungs and Sonys have nothing on this.
+ 700 lines of motion resolution without using that soap opera crap.
+ Clean detail, relatively wide gamut. The CMS may be limited, but the picture still look very natural.

S60 cons

- phosphor lag (Not an issue other than games, but you may be able to find it in bright background)
- IR (Just run the orbitor to ON and it's an non issue)
- slight buzzing (mine has mild buzzing. YMMV)
- Line bleeding and banding from time to time (Again, mild on mile, but still can be distracting. Again, YMMV)
- Aggressive ABL (It's not a bright plasma. No problem for movies other than anime IMO)
- Dithering (Definitely the dirtiest plasma this year. Isn't too much of an issue for movies IMO)
- does not correctly handle 24hz when outputting in 60hz.
- 48hz will drive you crazy with flickers
- Scaling could be better. Low bitrate materials like Youtube seems to look mediocre on this display. But then again, all 1080p displays are poor with Youtube.
post #3 of 34
Thread Starter 

I am in Canada, and S64 is almost $300 more than the S60. So that is not an option for me thanks for wonderful advise and write up however. I am leaning towards the Sony right now despite mainstream opinion on the internet about Panasonic plasma's, as I am afraid of issues of reflective and as you stated it is great watch anything in the day since you got the S64.

post #4 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

S60 cons


My take:

Quote:
- slight buzzing (mine has mild buzzing. YMMV)


Rarely hear on mine unless I'm right near the TV

Quote:
- Line bleeding and banding from time to time (Again, mild on mile, but still can be distracting. Again, YMMV)


If you own a PDP long enough you probably won't be bothered by it.

Quote:
- Aggressive ABL (It's not a bright plasma. No problem for movies other than anime IMO) I have my mine set on low in the Cinema mode using CNET's settings.


Under normal lighting conditions even with the panel brightness set to low, this set is also bright enough for me. Rarely notice any ABL issues even when watching sports.

Quote:
-- Dithering (Definitely the dirtiest plasma this year. Isn't too much of an issue for movies IMO)


The better the content quality the less dithering. Rarely notice it on Blu-Ray.

Quote:
--does not correctly handle 24hz when outputting in 60hz..


There is some judder with 24p content, but it's usually only noticeable when movie credits are scrolling. This is fairly common on HDTV's.

Quote:
- Scaling could be better. Low bitrate materials like Youtube seems to look mediocre on this display. But then again, all 1080p displays are poor with Youtube.


Has little effect on HD content.



Ian
post #5 of 34
The Sony is a better than the S60.
post #6 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


My take:



Rarely hear on mine unless I'm right near the TV
If you own a PDP long enough you probably won't be bothered by it.
Under normal lighting conditions even with the panel brightness set to low, this set is also bright enough for me. Rarely notice any ABL issues even when watching sports.

The better the content quality the less dithering. Rarely notice it on Blu-Ray.



There is some judder with 24p content, but it's usually only noticeable when movie credits are scrolling. This is fairly common on HDTV's.
Has little effect on HD content.



Ian

 

Thanks for the advice! I have actually ordered the S60 but was considering cancelling it for the Sony, still undecided. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wronganswer View Post

The Sony is a better than the S60.

 

Can you clarify?

post #7 of 34
Mr Ian, my 0~255 RGB "games" are neither bitrate limited nor compressed like the movies. I actually see dithering less common with the movies, but I can see it's there all the time. My previous LG plasma was cleaner in comparison. (wasn't perfect either. PWM noises drove me to nuts) I am very happy with buzzing on mine though. I can hear it, but it's not distracting at all.
post #8 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by wronganswer View Post

The Sony is a better than the S60.

Is just that i din't like s60. Is a basic plasma and is no better than the Sony. The sony is a backlit set and have good black levels. The panasonic is not very bright and it will be difficult to watch on bright rooms, the Sony is brighter and easier to watch. If you want something better than the Sony and the S60, check the S64 from Costco.
post #9 of 34
The s60 destroys that Sony in contrast ratio it's no contest you would have to go up to the w900a to get similar contrast ratio no offense but there really is no comparison
post #10 of 34
Not even the W900 is going to match the S60's contrast ratio. If the majority of full local dimming backlits back then couldn't win against the VT25, what chance would an edge-lit going to have against the S60, which has superior black to the VT30 let alone the VT25?

I know the S-PVAs very well because I used to have a 46 inch Sony S-PVAs too, so I know where their strengths and weaknesses are, and contrast ratio is one thing the Sony will not win against the S60. 0.0146fL for the Sony W900 against 0.0024fL of the S60? please!
post #11 of 34
Even with the w900a your not at the picture quality level of the S60. I have a w900a and panasonic U50 plasmas and even the budget U50 that you can get for $500 now smokes my w900a. The contrast, motion resolution, and black level of plasmas just destroy LCD's. A tv revolution is in order, when a $2K tv cant match the picture quality of a $500 plasma some thing is not right. My opinion? Instead of worrying about reflections and buying an inferior product, invest some money into shades and buy a plasma. It will last you for years to come, and even with the coming of OLED and 4K, the S60 will hold its own.
post #12 of 34
I wasn't suggesting it would beat the s60 just that to get comparable performance you have to spend A lot more

I love plasma also but the w900 is a nice set
post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Even with the w900a your not at the picture quality level of the S60. I have a w900a and panasonic U50 plasmas and even the budget U50 that you can get for $500 now smokes my w900a. The contrast, motion resolution, and black level of plasmas just destroy LCD's. A tv revolution is in order, when a $2K tv cant match the picture quality of a $500 plasma some thing is not right. My opinion? Instead of worrying about reflections and buying an inferior product, invest some money into shades and buy a plasma. It will last you for years to come, and even with the coming of OLED and 4K, the S60 will hold its own.

Sorry to ask you OT, but may I have answers on a few questions? How does the MotionPlus Impulse of the W900a handle motion against your U50? Is there any issues? Does your U50 suffer from "baked faces" issues that the ST50/GT50 owners complained about when playing games? Overall, how satisfactory is your U50's ABL? I have an S64, but I still can't get over some of the things the U50/UT50 does better than my S64.
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Mr Ian, my 0~255 RGB "games" are neither bitrate limited nor compressed like the movies. I actually see dithering less common with the movies, but I can see it's there all the time. My previous LG plasma was cleaner in comparison. (wasn't perfect either. PWM noises drove me to nuts) I am very happy with buzzing on mine though. I can hear it, but it's not distracting at all.

I don't game so I can't comment on the anomalies. However, I usually only see dithering with content that is compressed. It's rarely a problem on BD.

BTW, you can call me Ian, or you can call me mailiang, but you don't have to call me MR. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by wronganswer View Post

Is just that i din't like s60. Is a basic plasma and is no better than the Sony. The sony is a backlit set and have good black levels. The panasonic is not very bright and it will be difficult to watch on bright rooms, the Sony is brighter and easier to watch. If you want something better than the Sony and the S60, check the S64 from Costco.

With or with out AR filters, plasmas are not designed for very bright rooms. They are more appropriate for Home Theater applications. That being said, most experts prefer plasmas under normal lighting conditions then LCD's. The Sony is a nice TV, but I prefer the picture of the S60.


Ian wink.gif
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I wasn't suggesting it would beat the s69 just that to get comparable performance you have to spend A lot more

I love plasma also but the w900 is a nice set

Well, if the W900 gets similiar contrast ratio as the LG plasma, then it really isn't getting anywhere near to be comparable. Contrast ratio has actually been decreasing on the PVA land ever since they adopted PSA technology. Samsung took a dive with ES8000 for example.
post #16 of 34
It was measured at 6000:1 that is better than my 2011 st30 again I like plasma but for an led it's not bad
post #17 of 34
If you measured it yourself, what was the MLL on it? I do give LCDs a point for being able to keep constant whites.
post #18 of 34
That figure came from a review I don't own a w900 just happen to think its a nice set


As much as we all love plasma it isn't for everyone and sonys do have some slither strengths like great video processing and In the W900s case very accurate color and greyscale
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Sorry to ask you OT, but may I have answers on a few questions? How does the MotionPlus Impulse of the W900a handle motion against your U50? Is there any issues? Does your U50 suffer from "baked faces" issues that the ST50/GT50 owners complained about when playing games? Overall, how satisfactory is your U50's ABL? I have an S64, but I still can't get over some of the things the U50/UT50 does better than my S64.

Impulse mode actually makes the motion resolution better than plasma, however it is not really useable for me. The picture gets extremely dim, and there is noticeable flicker that reminds me of plasma in 48hz mode. The ABL on the U50 is seamless, I can not notice it working unless I try to look for it. I don't know what the "baked faces" issue was, but games look amazing. Not to mention the input lag on the U50 is measures at 22ms with the Leo Bodnar device. The w900a measures in at around 19ms. Whats interesting is I ran an HDMI splitter to both sets and the U50 was noticeably more responsive despite reading higher on the input lag tester. Also, when running a plasma next to a LCD, you really notice the difference in motion resolution.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Impulse mode actually makes the motion resolution better than plasma, however it is not really useable for me. The picture gets extremely dim, and there is noticeable flicker that reminds me of plasma in 48hz mode. The ABL on the U50 is seamless, I can not notice it working unless I try to look for it. I don't know what the "baked faces" issue was, but games look amazing. Not to mention the input lag on the U50 is measures at 22ms with the Leo Bodnar device. The w900a measures in at around 19ms. Whats interesting is I ran an HDMI splitter to both sets and the U50 was noticeably more responsive despite reading higher on the input lag tester. Also, when running a plasma next to a LCD, you really notice the difference in motion resolution.

Actually dimmer than your U50? Wow that was unexpected. I knew there would be a drop (98cd/m2 according to reviews) but if what you're saying is true, then the plasmas still reign supreme when it comes to games. My S64, which is brighter than your U50, hits 38 cd/m2 when maximum ABL is hit, and can hit up to 170 cd/m2 when no ABL is engaged. Like you said with your U50, the ramping up of ABL is very gentle with my S64 too, but of course, I still crave for less aggressive ABLs. So, it comes as a surprised when constant 98 cd/m2 would be considered dimmer than even my 38~170 cd/m2. So, Mark is only half correct when he says MotionPlus Impulse is superior to plasmas in motions.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag

Like you said, it's scientifically proven that Leo Bodnar is harsher on plasmas, so your U50 should be screaming fast when it comes to input lags.
post #21 of 34
"I am in Canada, and S64 is almost $300 more than the S60..."

Darkknight74, not sure why you are seeing the S64 at $300 more than the S60? I'm in Canada too and FYI, the S64 that KOF refers to is a special model that is available only at Costco. It is basically identical to the S60 but adds the A/R screen coating and an additional year warranty (2 full years). On the costco.ca website, the price is around $850 but that includes shipping; if you go to a store the price is around $785. Plus Costco offers an additional 3 year warranty (total 5 years) for $60. A great deal IMHO. The full model number on coscto.ca is TC-50PS64

Most retail stores around here were selling the S60 during Black Friday for around $800 so the Costco S64 version really is a good deal (as long as you have a Costco membership or know someone who does). I bought one myself for the bedroom.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by f10r@n0 View Post

"I am in Canada, and S64 is almost $300 more than the S60..."

Darkknight74, not sure why you are seeing the S64 at $300 more than the S60? I'm in Canada too and FYI, the S64 that KOF refers to is a special model that is available only at Costco. It is basically identical to the S60 but adds the A/R screen coating and an additional year warranty (2 full years). On the costco.ca website, the price is around $850 but that includes shipping; if you go to a store the price is around $785. Plus Costco offers an additional 3 year warranty (total 5 years) for $60. A great deal IMHO. The full model number on coscto.ca is TC-50PS64

Most retail stores around here were selling the S60 during Black Friday for around $800 so the Costco S64 version really is a good deal (as long as you have a Costco membership or know someone who does). I bought one myself for the bedroom.

Yep, I live in Toronto and I bought mine from Costco for $799. Best Buy was selling the S60 for the same price, so that makes Costco better place to buy the S60. This anti reflective filter works really well!
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f10r@n0 View Post

"I am in Canada, and S64 is almost $300 more than the S60..."

Darkknight74, not sure why you are seeing the S64 at $300 more than the S60? I'm in Canada too and FYI, the S64 that KOF refers to is a special model that is available only at Costco. It is basically identical to the S60 but adds the A/R screen coating and an additional year warranty (2 full years). On the costco.ca website, the price is around $850 but that includes shipping; if you go to a store the price is around $785. Plus Costco offers an additional 3 year warranty (total 5 years) for $60. A great deal IMHO. The full model number on coscto.ca is TC-50PS64

Most retail stores around here were selling the S60 during Black Friday for around $800 so the Costco S64 version really is a good deal (as long as you have a Costco membership or know someone who does). I bought one myself for the bedroom.

 

I have actually ordered the S60 for $620 after all taxes and deductions. It was a unique deal I found at shop.ca and  I will also receive a %20 cash-back from ebates.ca for my purchase which give me this discounted price. That is why I was quoted saying the S64 is $300 more after taxes and eco-fee than the S60 for me.

 

I have question for you however. I am also planning to place the S60 in my bedroom, mounted to the wall. Do you think a maximum 10 feet viewing distance is enough for a 50 inch TV? It seems to be a bit too large but my TV is still in transit shipping and I am weighing my decision in regards to if I choose the correct size. What distance are you viewing the TV at in your bedroom, I ask because I will also be placing it in a bedroom?

 

Thanks everyone btw! The general consesus seems to be to order the S60, and I will follow your advise :) If there are issues with reflection or glare I will optomize the room to suit the TV.

post #24 of 34
I view my bedroom tv from 10 feet and 60" is perfect. I had a 50" in the bedroom previously but it was to small.
post #25 of 34
I sit about 8.5 feet from my 50'' set and it's perfect. Any larger and digital artifacts like dithering and even minor color banding becomes distracting on certain content. 55'' would probably be ideal for 10 feet, but 50 or 60 is fine depending on how important the extra impact is for you with a larger 60'' bedroom set.


Ian
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight74 View Post

I have actually ordered the S60 for $620 after all taxes and deductions. It was a unique deal I found at shop.ca and  I will also receive a %20 cash-back from ebates.ca for my purchase which give me this discounted price. That is why I was quoted saying the S64 is $300 more after taxes and eco-fee than the S60 for me.

I have question for you however. I am also planning to place the S60 in my bedroom, mounted to the wall. Do you think a maximum 10 feet viewing distance is enough for a 50 inch TV? It seems to be a bit too large but my TV is still in transit shipping and I am weighing my decision in regards to if I choose the correct size. What distance are you viewing the TV at in your bedroom, I ask because I will also be placing it in a bedroom?

Thanks everyone btw! The general consesus seems to be to order the S60, and I will follow your advise smile.gif If there are issues with reflection or glare I will optomize the room to suit the TV.

Is the shop.ca deal still available?
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight74 View Post

I have actually ordered the S60 for $620 after all taxes and deductions. It was a unique deal I found at shop.ca and  I will also receive a %20 cash-back from ebates.ca for my purchase which give me this discounted price. That is why I was quoted saying the S64 is $300 more after taxes and eco-fee than the S60 for me.

I have question for you however. I am also planning to place the S60 in my bedroom, mounted to the wall. Do you think a maximum 10 feet viewing distance is enough for a 50 inch TV? It seems to be a bit too large but my TV is still in transit shipping and I am weighing my decision in regards to if I choose the correct size. What distance are you viewing the TV at in your bedroom, I ask because I will also be placing it in a bedroom?

Thanks everyone btw! The general consesus seems to be to order the S60, and I will follow your advise smile.gif If there are issues with reflection or glare I will optomize the room to suit the TV.

Oh wow, that's a great price...good find!

Regarding distance, my 50" is just under 10 feet away and I am happy with it. It replaced an 8 year old Sony 40" LCD so at first almost seemed too big (if that's even possible!!) but now after a week or so of adjusting, seems just fine. I'm still amazed how a TV so cheap can look so good.
post #28 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post


Is the shop.ca deal still available?

 

Yes, it is still available. I had a bit of rewards point culminated so it was a bit cheaper for me. I had about $70 in rewards. 

 

Anyhow here is the link for the TV - http://www.shop.ca/c/panasonic-panasonic-viera-50-1080p-600hz-smart-plasma-television-22725734

 

If you create an account at shop.ca you will start of with $25, and will earn %2.5 in rewards on you first purchase. 

 

Try to use my referral link if you can, I will get $25 if you purchase something :) - http://www.shop.ca?plcktb=ZwZ2WGECYQ2

 

Also, ebates.ca no longer has the %20 percent cash-back for shop.ca but you can use http://www.greatcanadianrebates.ca/ as they have a %15 percent cash-back for shop.ca purchases. Also use the coupon SHOPELECTRONICS for an additional $10s off.

 

This is how I got the reduced price on my TV, but you have to go through these steps. Based on my calculation your TV will cost approx. $712.74 if shipping is free for you, as for me it was free.

 

Sometimes ebates.ca offers %20 percent cash-back, which I took advantage of, but sometimes they also offer a whooping %30 cash-back. So maybe wait a little bit and you can score a better deal. 

 

Remember to turn-off any adblock software when using any cash-back websites.


Edited by darkknight74 - 12/8/13 at 3:50pm
post #29 of 34
Thread Starter 

Okay, thanks and much appreciated guys! I will keep the order for the 50 inch Panny then :) 

post #30 of 34
Thread Starter 

You guys were all right, received the Panasonic a few days ago now. It looks great, and the black levels are where it really shines. I have 60 inch Sony LED, a 2013 model, and the Panasonic plays dark scenes from movies so much better.

 

One question though, any point breaking in the plasma? I have been running D-Nice's slides for about 15 hours now I think, but I have seen mixed opinions online about the purpose of breaking in. What do you guys think? Also, anyway to reduce the buzzing, its not too bothersome expect when the volume is low and I am watching something bright?

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