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Official JVC DLA-X700R / RS57U Owners Thread - Page 37

post #1081 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Oddly I thought of this when I saw the moon up last night, so I just wanted to throw this out there. The underlying "shade" really has no effect on what we consider "white", if you look at the moon at night it (at least to me) looks white (well white highlights do). However the "gain" of the moon is only 12% on average, this is actually less, than the "gain" of a standard gray card.

Not discounting your observations, but I think the explanation is likely one of Darin's.

Yeah, I'm sure it's just got to be some optical illusion or something. I really can't explain it. I'm sure in a total black room with no other colors or light sources to bias what I'm seeing or skew my perception of the colors, it would "look" normal...whatever normal is, LOL!

Darin has caused me to second guess everything I see with my own two eyes now...thanks bud! tongue.gif

No, but really Darin has allowed me to see past several obstacles and get a clearer grasp on the whole concept of color and lighting conditions. There's so many variable at play that have to be carefully matched in order to get the best out of your two-piece projection system. It's a lot of fun to me to learn and discuss all of these things though! smile.gif

Like everyone says, I would need two identical black velvet rooms with the same equipment all calibrated exactly the same in order to perform proper A/B comparisons. And full screens, not samples. This would be awesome and I would totally do it if I had the $$$. Any investors out there, LOL?! biggrin.gif

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post #1082 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Kevin, Rich means all he had to do was set the 3D mode (which can be Auto, Side-by-Side, 2D, Top-Bottom) to Auto and whenever a 3D signal is detected by the projector it is automatically going into high bulb mode. Now I must admit, I have never seen the projector do that with the RS55 or RS56 so maybe this is new for the RS57. On the RS56, you have the 3D preset (which in my opinion is better than what they have done now, slotting in a 3D preset under the 2D ones). And of course as you have a separate 3D button, you make it choose high bulb mode anyway. Unless Rich is using the THX preset, which I think does flick bulb level automatically when it detects a 3D signal.

Thanks Jon that's what I was asking of Rich. I have the 57 set to 'Auto' for 3D as well but it doesn't go into High lamp mode and hasn't since my RS50. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Rich must of also gotten a bad copy of Elysium but he must have missed another one of my earlier posts where I reviewed it's spectacular PQ coming from 4K camera's (and how excellent the xv color mode was). wink.gif

Wonder to your point if a particular mode is required for this to happen [going to auto high lamp]. If it is THX then there's my answer because I haven't used it since the RS50. Guess I'll have to read that dang manual again. smile.gif
post #1083 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

One would think that the screen with the highest gain would look the brightest though, but it's the total opposite. That's what's so confusing to me. The DNP 2.3 gain screen is grey and looks dimmer than the JKP 1.1 gain white screen. Why is that?

BTW - these things are all covered in the screens thread so not to take us even more off topic… but a gain is just a gain of the original color tone. So in cases of a gray Firehawk etc… it would be accentuating the blacks (not whites). wink.gif
post #1084 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

BTW - these things are all covered in the screens thread so not to take us even more off topic… but a gain is just a gain of the original color tone. So in cases of a gray Firehawk etc… it would be accentuating the blacks (not whites). wink.gif

Mind = BLOWN! Dude, you rock! And sorry for getting off topic. I tend to do that a lot, LOL! tongue.gif
post #1085 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Thanks Jon that's what I was asking of Rich. I have the 57 set to 'Auto' for 3D as well but it doesn't go into High lamp mode and hasn't since my RS50. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Rich must of also gotten a bad copy of Elysium but he must have missed another one of my earlier posts where I reviewed it's spectacular PQ coming from 4K camera's (and how excellent the xv color mode was). wink.gif

Wonder to your point if a particular mode is required for this to happen [going to auto high lamp]. If it is THX then there's my answer because I haven't used it since the RS50. Guess I'll have to read that dang manual again. smile.gif

Yeah, my copy of Elysium is most excellent and doesn't replicate what Rich is seeing at all.
post #1086 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Mind = BLOWN! Dude, you rock! And sorry for getting off topic. I tend to do that a lot, LOL! tongue.gif

NP. We all do it from time to time since most of this relates to our PJ's but there is a wealth of good intel on other threads (me even bringing up something that's considered "off topic" is the pot calling the kettle BLACK… I should have changed my handle to "Mr. Off Topic" long ago!). biggrin.gif
post #1087 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

NP. We all do it from time to time since most of this relates to our PJ's but there is a wealth of good intel on other threads (me even bringing up something that's considered "off topic" is the pot calling the kettle BLACK… I should have changed my handle to "Mr. Off Topic" long ago!). biggrin.gif

Hahaha! Yeah, I think we just get so excited about our new toys that we lose all conception of which thread we're in. I'm one of those people who gets easily distracted and would fall in a lake while texting and walking. smile.gif
post #1088 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Thanks Jon that's what I was asking of Rich. I have the 57 set to 'Auto' for 3D as well but it doesn't go into High lamp mode and hasn't since my RS50. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Rich must of also gotten a bad copy of Elysium but he must have missed another one of my earlier posts where I reviewed it's spectacular PQ coming from 4K camera's (and how excellent the xv color mode was). wink.gif

Wonder to your point if a particular mode is required for this to happen [going to auto high lamp]. If it is THX then there's my answer because I haven't used it since the RS50. Guess I'll have to read that dang manual again. smile.gif

I don't understand the Elysium thing. You cant have one bad copy....all the discs are the same! So either there is a whole batch that has messed up mastering or something else is going on. I don't know what Blu-ray player he has or processor in the middle, but being an x.v.color disc (as Elysium only has one version which is the Mastered in 4K edition), perhaps his Blu-ray player or processor is doing weird things with it.
post #1089 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Just go steal your wallet back from that beeoch my brutha!!



tongue.giftongue.giftongue.gif

Ha! biggrin.giftongue.gif

I held a funeral for that wallet many months ago dude. Last I heard it made it out to LA and has long since dried up. tongue.gif
post #1090 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

… but a gain is just a gain of the original color tone. So in cases of a gray Firehawk etc… it would be accentuating the blacks (not whites). wink.gif

Not really sure what you're saying, but gain is in reference to calcium carbonate, which is a very diffuse reflector and color neutral.
post #1091 of 1630
Right back at ya Noah! wink.gif

How else would you explain it then?
post #1092 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I don't understand the Elysium thing. You cant have one bad copy....all the discs are the same! So either there is a whole batch that has messed up mastering or something else is going on. I don't know what Blu-ray player he has or processor in the middle, but being an x.v.color disc (as Elysium only has one version which is the Mastered in 4K edition), perhaps his Blu-ray player or processor is doing weird things with it.

I considered that Jon but if say his player supported xv and output the added data and the PJ didn't have that mode on or even if he was going thru his Radiance which we know didn't support it, would it resolve to simple Rec709 (or whatever he's got the PJ profile set for)? Meaning it should just look like every other disc.

I tested x.v. on/off on the same disc between HDMI outputs on my Denon (one with the Radiance and one without) and there was no washing out anywhere.
post #1093 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post



I considered that Jon but if say his player supported xv and output the added data and the PJ didn't have that mode on or even if he was going thru his Radiance which we know didn't support it, would it resolve to simple Rec709 (or whatever he's got the PJ profile set for)? Meaning it should just look like every other disc.

I tested x.v. on/off on the same disc between HDMI outputs on my Denon (one with the Radiance and one without) and there was no washing out anywhere.

That would be my expectation too...but I was just wondering if there was some erroneous handling (half supported) or something stupid going on. It makes no sense otherwise.....

BTW I haven't watched Riddick yet....will do very soon. Gravity looked just as atmospheric as I hoped. It is not a movie that pushes 3D to the limits with pop-out, but it gives great depth. There is some evidence of sharpening on the Blu-ray mastering so you may want to dial down some of the sharpening on the PJ which you might normally have for 3D. Haven't watched it all the way through but couldn't resist giving it a spin smile.gif
post #1094 of 1630
For
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post



I considered that Jon but if say his player supported xv and output the added data and the PJ didn't have that mode on or even if he was going thru his Radiance which we know didn't support it, would it resolve to simple Rec709 (or whatever he's got the PJ profile set for)? Meaning it should just look like every other disc.

I tested x.v. on/off on the same disc between HDMI outputs on my Denon (one with the Radiance and one without) and there was no washing out anywhere.

For the player to send the xvcolor extended gamut info it has to negociate with the display that xvcolor is supported. If the display doesn' support xvcolor, or if any of the devices in the video chain doesn't support xvcolor, the player only sends the rec 709 info.
post #1095 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Right back at ya Noah! wink.gif

How else would you explain it then?

Explain what?

Oh wait, now I see the smiley smile.gif
post #1096 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Uhh did I miss something… not following Mike… "best image mode"??

Rich - How do you get the 57 into Auto 3D (high Lamp mode)? It happened on my 50 but not since. eek.gif

The mode that provides the best calibrated image. Like many calibrate living room mode on an Epson 5030, because it is brighter, but that is not the mode that provides the best image. They trade some image quality for brightness.

Mike
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post #1097 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

That would be my expectation too...but I was just wondering if there was some erroneous handling (half supported) or something stupid going on. It makes no sense otherwise.....

BTW I haven't watched Riddick yet....will do very soon. Gravity looked just as atmospheric as I hoped. It is not a movie that pushes 3D to the limits with pop-out, but it gives great depth. There is some evidence of sharpening on the Blu-ray mastering so you may want to dial down some of the sharpening on the PJ which you might normally have for 3D. Haven't watched it all the way through but couldn't resist giving it a spin smile.gif

Manni's assessment is as always spot on so I have no clue what Rich's problem could be (maybe try another player TV combo Rich and report back?).

Thanks for that yummy little titillation Jon… can't wait to see this movie!! I prefer a well done depth of image 3D than "In YO Face" force-fed stuff anyways (although on the cartoons like MvA it can be fun… like opening paddle-board scene which was cool!), but as I understand the 4K 3D cameras used for this movie are crazy expensive stuff. Report back once you watch Riddick as I really think you'll like it (very different than what you're used to from the usual definition of "great PQ"; unique is all I'm gonna say!).
post #1098 of 1630
I looked at Elysium on my older Pansonic plasma and it seemed to look ok, in terms of deep contrast (though that plasma doesn't have the best contrast ratio to begin with).

I haven't re-tried Elysium yet on my RS57 because I've been busy testing out my new Lumagen 2041 video processor with the RS57.

For those who don't know, the Lumagen 2041 can upscale 1080p to 4K, so I wanted to try it with the RS57. My main concern was first, whether the Lumagen would even work with my existing 45 foot HDMI cable, since
it's new 4K chip puts higher than regular 1080p demands on an HDMI cable. Fortunately it passed 1080p fine on my cables to the RS57. I then (with Mark Haflich's helping me walk through the process) had the 2041
output 1080p to 4K and that worked too: the JVC didn't blink and displayed 4K as the input source in it's info menu (it said something like 4K2K input).

I didn't take long to actually evaluate the Lumagen's 4K scaling vs the JVC's scaling. Right now it's a temp set up with me having to operate the Lumagen whie I'm 1/2 out the projector room, pointing the remote down the hallway to my equipment rack (until the Lumagen is programmed into my RTI remote system). Brief impressions were that I didn't notice any advantage with the Lumagen doing the scaling. I'll be able to check thoroughly once
I have the Lumagen fully installed.

Good to know it all works without HDMI issues thus far, though, on the RS57.
post #1099 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

BTW, a very weird problem/experience last night:

Last night I put on the Elysium Blu-Ray. I bought it due to the raves about it's image quality. When the credits first came on they were set against a sort of washed out, milky gray background. I wondered what was going on, since most credits are against a dark black background. But then once the movie image came on, it too looked washed out. And then came the shots of the station in space, and the "black" of space was that same milky gray. It looked terrible in terms of washed out looking contrast. This persisted for all the scenes I sampled - regular day shots, while nice and clear, also seemed to have a bit of a washed out quality with none of the dark areas looking very dark. It freaked me out at first and had me thinking I'd changed something in the contrast/gamma of my projector but couldn't track down any reason for it.

I threw on some other movies and...whew!...there were those nice deep black levels. It's only on the Elysium that the contrast/black levels totally suck.

What's going on? Has anyone else noticed this about the Elysium disc? I can't imagine it would have gotten "reference" type raves with such a low contrast image/raised black levels. And yet I also can't explain why only that movie would show this problem in my set up.

I experienced something similar with Captain Phillips. Ridiculously elevated black levels. I ultimately had to drop the brightness to something like -12 to get it to look right.

I checked afterwards and it was only this disc with the problem. I looked online and there were no reports of this, so I didn't know what to make of it. I've been considering exchanging the disc but haven't gotten to it yet.

Interesting that it is also a Sony" mastered in 4K" BD. My Elysium looked fine.
post #1100 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

I experienced something similar with Captain Phillips. Ridiculously elevated black levels. I ultimately had to drop the brightness to something like -12 to get it to look right.

I checked afterwards and it was only this disc with the problem. I looked online and there were no reports of this, so I didn't know what to make of it. I've been considering exchanging the disc but haven't gotten to it yet.

Interesting that it is also a Sony" mastered in 4K" BD. My Elysium looked fine.

Out of interest, what is your BD player and any other processing gadgetry (E.g. AV processor) in the HDMI chain?
post #1101 of 1630
Has anybody tried to connect an iPad to their RS57? I use my iPad2 with the original apple HDMI adapter and nothing shows up. The same setup works quite well on three of my TVs...I thought the firmware update would have helped, but still, no image...

I use my iPad (128gb) to store many movies and I would really like it to work...
post #1102 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Not really sure what you're saying, but gain is in reference to calcium carbonate, which is a very diffuse reflector and color neutral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Right back at ya Noah! wink.gif

How else would you explain it then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Explain what?

Oh wait, now I see the smiley smile.gif

I thought gain affected "all" color (whites to greys to blacks and all colors in between, regardless of the screen base color)?

I received all of my screen samples yesterday and pitted them against one another last night and I must say the Stewart ST100 is the best looking white sample I have. It exhibits no shimmering or sparklies and just seems to disappear on the wall. After comparing all of them with different background colors fed from my HTPC, all of the other white samples exhibit a sheen and/or sparklies and/or texture. The ST100 is just as aberration free as can be, it's truly amazing. Comparing the Firehawk G3 & G4 against the DNP Supernova 23-23, the DNP has the best viewing angles, black levels, brightness, and only exhibits a tiny amount of sheen when viewed with bright content from a certain angle (otherwise I never see it on the DNP).

I believe at this point I am going to get a 120" 16:9 DNP Supernova Blade 23-23 (2.3 gain) for daytime viewing and nighttime viewing...for now. And then get a motorized/tab tensioned 21:9 Stewart ST100 later for 2D Blu-ray viewing only at nighttime.

The DNP 23-23 is the best overall ambient light rejecting screen that I've demoed with my X700. It even has the best black levels with the lights off which is awesome. The ST100 is definitely the best white screen I've demoed though. I wouldn't get anything else if I were going white as the tradeoffs in PQ are just not worth it to me.

Also, what's the best thread IYO to discuss screens?
Edited by Mr. Hatcher - 2/12/14 at 10:26am
post #1103 of 1630
Oh yeah, I'd definitely have the Stewart ST100 material if I didn't feel I needed the extra gain of the ST130.
post #1104 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Oh yeah, I'd definitely have the Stewart ST100 material if I didn't feel I needed the extra gain of the ST130.

You should get two screens. tongue.gif

I so wish I could afford the Stewart Daily Dual, that thing looks incredible and would solve all of my problems. I could have an ambient light grey screen and white screen all in one package.

Though I would rather get the screen with the least amount of aberrations and deal with the lower brightness for now in hopes that projectors will continually get brighter in a few years with better LED/laser light engines. All the other white screen samples have a visible sheen/sparklies/texture to them with brighter content. It looks like a sparkly rainbow all over the screen...it's very distracting. The ST130 isn't nearly as bad as some of the others in this regard, but it's still present and bothersome to me.

I'm going to create a thread to post my findings there with details and photos once I get my new home setup as it will be much blacker and better for doing comparisons. It will be a couple months yet, but will be worth the wait and hopefully help others make a more educated screen purchasing decision in the future. I'm going to secure the samples to a black background and not have any tape visible as I have discovered the reflections off the tape itself are much brighter than the samples and skew my perception of what I'm seeing. It's hard to focus on anything other than the brightest object as our eyes are naturally biased towards the brightest object. So many variables to eliminate...
post #1105 of 1630
Wow, I'd never seen the Stewart Daily Duel before. Very cool.

As for two screens...well...my screen system is already pretty elaborate and tightly designed with it's 4 way masking system. The problem is I use a Variable Image Size approach, as I love to vary the size and AR of images to my taste, but always with
the image perfectly masked. Adding a second screen wouldn't help that cause. Though I suppose a system like the Daily Duel could possibly do it, but I'm not sure of it's dimensions and how far apart the two screen surfaces are in that system: I'd think
it would negate the ability to have my masking close to the screen surface of at least the back screen material. (Which is the one I'd want fixed and use the most).

We all have our criteria and the compromises they cause us...
post #1106 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Out of interest, what is your BD player and any other processing gadgetry (E.g. AV processor) in the HDMI chain?

PS3 going through Denon AVR2313 and Darblet.

Every disc before and after is fine with black levels, but with Captain Phillips something is definitely wrong. I'll have to do some trouble shooting. I enjoyed the movie but didn't find it to be something I saw myself watching multiple times, so I haven't been as motivated to figure out what was wrong, but I definitely will get some more info.
post #1107 of 1630
Android remote control APP is now available. See download section on this page: http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029313&pathId=71&page=10
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post #1108 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ2014 View Post
 

V-streching distortion in 3D

 

I love the 2D picture of my RS 4910 and the 3D picture in 1.85:1 is ok. I can tolerate the flickering and if there is not too much movement in the picture which leads to a bit of blurring. 

 

However, switching from a regular 3D 1.85 picture with black bars on top and bottom to v-stretching in 3D of the same picture on my 2.35:1 Stewart 1.5 gain screen leads to instant artifacts. It appears with or without using my Schneider M anamorphic lens, so it's not the lens. It's hard to describe what i'm seeing but any movement becomes artificial. For instance Bobby the dog in Tintin 3D when running seems to float over the surface, cars glide unnaturally as if disconnected from the road, and any movement by people show motion jumps/smears, water flowing or camera pans look off. I have to sit an additional row back and still have a hard time getting my eyes to focus on the fast moving objects or people. I also noticed considerable more eye strain while watching in this mode as if my eyes are trying to make sense of something unnatural on the screen. I'm left with a slight headache something I never have with 1.85 3D on my projector or in theaters. 

 

All this is NOT noticeable in 1.85 3D without the v-stretching. By the way I have CMD, and Clear Black off, so it's not the "soap opera" etc. artifacts that arise from using these adjustments. Using CMD does not help in the v-stretch mode while it does in 1.85 aspect ratio although I hate the effect and leave it off. V-streching in 2D with lens is completely normal. 

 

Is it possible the algorithms used for 3D v-streching for each eye are inaccurate, creating a distortion in the adjusted 3D stretched picture. Currently I have to use zoom to fill my 2:35:1 screen rather than using the v-strech with lens to get a "normal" looking 3D picture without black bars.

 

Does anyone have the same issue or knows what is going on here? Is there a way to resolve this? Does this issue exist on the previous round of projectors too? Thanks for you help.

 

 

RESPONSE FROM JVC

 

I just heard back from JVC with the message that they were able to reproduce the problem with the 3D v-stretching and that they are looking at it right now. They will let me know what the resolution is going to be. Hopefully something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

post #1109 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

I thought gain affected "all" color (whites to greys to blacks and all colors in between, regardless of the screen base color)?

That's correct.

PJ,

You don't need to make the same post in all of the JVC threads; I'm sure anyone with a particular model will also read the JVC 2014 thread.
post #1110 of 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Wow, I'd never seen the Stewart Daily Duel before. Very cool.

As for two screens...well...my screen system is already pretty elaborate and tightly designed with it's 4 way masking system. The problem is I use a Variable Image Size approach, as I love to vary the size and AR of images to my taste, but always with
the image perfectly masked. Adding a second screen wouldn't help that cause. Though I suppose a system like the Daily Duel could possibly do it, but I'm not sure of it's dimensions and how far apart the two screen surfaces are in that system: I'd think
it would negate the ability to have my masking close to the screen surface of at least the back screen material. (Which is the one I'd want fixed and use the most).

We all have our criteria and the compromises they cause us...

Yeah, that Daily Dual is perfect for a multi-purpose non-dedicated theater room. I would love to get one of those bad boys, but I would need a BIG pay increase to be able to afford that I'm afraid, LOL! rolleyes.gif

You have a sweet setup though and I'm kind of mirroring what you're doing with the curtains. Build thread coming soon...

I'm not sure if a masking system would work or not with the Daily Dual, you may want to inquire with a Stewart rep. Though your bank account is begging you not to. tongue.gif
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