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Official JVC DLA-X700R / RS57U Owners Thread - Page 25

post #721 of 1605

I am counting on this year's model to fill my 150" CenterStage XD 16:9 screen. I am still anxiously waiting for my general contractor to finish the basement but I did try the screen and my new RS57 U at about 17ft throw distance for about an hour feeding it with "Inception" blue ray and apple TV Netflix as inputs. The picture looks great with lights turned off, I guess based on the discussions on these threads I may have to watch out for lens dimming but for now it looks bright, clear and very enjoyable in 2D.  

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post #722 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

That is my guess, but need to test it (or hear from somebody else who tests it). Basically, in general higher multipliers from native to dynamic on/off CR are harder to achieve without visible artifacts.

If you have or get The International you could test it yourself by going to the chapter where Clive Owen interrogates Armin Mueller-Stahl.

However, we should also keep in mind that both good and bad detail can be easier to see with brighter images, so just opening the iris on the same screen can make artifacts more visible that may not have been more visible if the ft-lamberts had been kept the same (such as by using a lower gain screen with iris open more).

--Darin

Wow Darin you certainly knew the scene to test DI/II with. I watched last night and at marker 1:25:50 just as Armin says "death comes..." you can clearly see some pumping? and gamma changes where it appears to crush whites on his forehead (look at the scene as a whole between 1:24:45 - 1:31:20). This was with my aperture clamped at -3 & -5 but when I fully clamped to -15 the errors all but disappeared. At a mid clamp of -7 I could still see some lag & gamma crushing but only slightly; seemingly the sweet spot for this scene. Mind you it was noticeable to me (not good), but nothing terrible and seemed to recover pretty quick. The last scene's fade to black from the bright scene was top notch and I literally could not make out the screen to the surrounding black velvet drapes. However when the bottom credits began to show you could see the delay of the iris take the letters from a light grey to full white on black (which looked good after the point; no halos or smearing/tearing).

So it appears the more you clamp the manual iris, the less work the DI has to do. I ran the rest of the movie at -5 Iris/Auto2/ClBk=Low and it looked excellent (and I thought I had seen this movie before but I had not and thought it was fantastic)! IMO whatever downside there was with running in DI mode it was overshadowed by the excellent inky blacks creating a contrast that produced a very immersive viewing experience.

The other news on the HDMI resolution issue… I put the Darbee back in the chain without issue (looked best at 10-20% with ClBk=Low). So in my config all is good without the Radiance in the mix as they just don't play well together (for me).

The movie as a whole was beautiful and I could see why you and Kris recommended it for reference viewing. The scenes in Istanbul on the building tops as well as the meeting square were excellent and some of the best I've scene to date on these JVC's.

smile.gif
Edited by krichter1 - 1/10/14 at 11:46am
post #723 of 1605
I can see the same thing with the interrogation scene in Oblivion. It takes a fraction of a second for it to settle in between the transitions.

This is a bit of an extreme condition and most will never see it. Overall I think the iris looks very good.
post #724 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I can see the same thing with the interrogation scene in Oblivion. It takes a fraction of a second for it to settle in between the transitions.

This is a bit of an extreme condition and most will never see it. Overall I think the iris looks very good.

I assume you're using mode2 on the rs57. Is this similar, not as visible or more visible than the spidey/29:00 scene on the 500ES?
post #725 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

I assume you're using mode2 on the rs57. Is this similar, not as visible or more visible than the spidey/29:00 scene on the 500ES?

it was mode 2 and basically invisible in this scene since the APL drop isn't enough to close the iris as much as we find in the Oblivion scene where it transitions from TC to MF (which is a very dark scene).

comparing the spiderman scene @ 29:00 in a direct A/B with close light output equalization, the 57 imo was definitely more convincing than the best the 600 could offer regardless of the iris setting. I need to look at this on the 1000 this weekend and will let you know. I was a little disappointed with the 600 in that specific test.
post #726 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for the great report Mike. Glad to hear you think e-shift makes a nice difference. What is your viewing distance from seated position to screen, relative to the width of the screen. I sit at 2x widths and I think the general consensus is that you have to be quite a bit closer than 2x widths to really notice or appreciate the effect of e-shift. Curious what it is in your case. Thanks.

I sit 9.5 feet back from a 96" wide 2.35 screen so I'm definitely under the 2x factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Hellooo Mike!! Oh yeah….. just like LeBron, Wade & Bosh got hammered for saying, "not 1…..not 2…..not 3……" Free standing theater outside she's not in that much with her mom living with us and keeping her company as she's getting up there, and custom oak projector module where only the faces of those bad boys are visible. Even with the body change from RS2 >> RS25 & back to RS50 & 4810. Started with RS1.

biggrin.gif ok, I just thought it would be easy to change out projectors without anyone knowing. Something tells me when the true 4k units eventually come out that will end. frown.gif
post #727 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springs Theater View Post

I am counting on this year's model to fill my 150" CenterStage XD 16:9 screen. I am still anxiously waiting for my general contractor to finish the basement but I did try the screen and my new RS57 U at about 17ft throw distance for about an hour feeding it with "Inception" blue ray and apple TV Netflix as inputs. The picture looks great with lights turned off, I guess based on the discussions on these threads I may have to watch out for lens dimming but for now it looks bright, clear and very enjoyable in 2D.  

150" diag?
post #728 of 1605
Have any of your X700 owners played with the new CMD settings? JVC touted major improvements. Some reports have said it is indeed improved with less artifacting, that you can actually use it (on LOW setting).

I'm wondering, though, if it still imparts the "video-look" or "non-film" look to movies, so I'm curious what you guys think so far.

(I note that RapalloAV finds the CMD this year to be useful for films, and I'm wondering about other owners too...as I drum my fingers slowly, wondering when I'll ever receive my projector...)
post #729 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


150" diag?

yes

post #730 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Have any of your X700 owners played with the new CMD settings? JVC touted major improvements. Some reports have said it is indeed improved with less artifacting, that you can actually use it (on LOW setting).

I'm wondering, though, if it still imparts the "video-look" or "non-film" look to movies, so I'm curious what you guys think so far.

(I note that RapalloAV finds the CMD this year to be useful for films, and I'm wondering about other owners too...as I drum my fingers slowly, wondering when I'll ever receive my projector...)

I tried out CMD low on my RS57. I thought it looked pretty good. The effect looked more subtle than low on the 4810, though that is just going by memory.

I think I'd prefer it to be a bit more subtle still, but I was actually thinking it was something that I can use (and I really don't like the overly "video-ish" look that frame interpolation often gives).

However, I noticed some artifacts. I wasn't particularly looking for them but I saw them pretty quickly. That's enough for me to not use it.
post #731 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springs Theater View Post

yes

That's the same size as my 150" centrestage XD acoustic
Edited by RapalloAV - 1/10/14 at 2:18pm
post #732 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Have any of your X700 owners played with the new CMD settings? JVC touted major improvements. Some reports have said it is indeed improved with less artifacting, that you can actually use it (on LOW setting).

I'm wondering, though, if it still imparts the "video-look" or "non-film" look to movies, so I'm curious what you guys think so far.

(I note that RapalloAV finds the CMD this year to be useful for films, and I'm wondering about other owners too...as I drum my fingers slowly, wondering when I'll ever receive my projector...)

I find it perfect on its lowest setting, I have never bothered to try it higher or even turn it off, its perfect!
First time ever have I been able to use this on any JVC, I found they always had too many artifacts even on the lowest setting.

It certainly doesn't have a video look, its smooth too especially on credits that move across the screen. I had some titles that used to look shocking on my (X95 and X90) even with CMD turned off, now they are sooooo smooth moving across the screen.

Lovely smile.gif
post #733 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post


That's the same size as my 150" centrestage XD acoustic

Awesome! this is my first projector and first home theater experience. I guess I can learn a lot from following your threads and bother you for specifics if I get stuck somewhere. I got the dark grey walls and ordered a spyder4. I'll have to sit on all these for another couple of weeks while my contractor enjoys the vacation in Asia.   

post #734 of 1605
I just don't see why it's beneficial for 1080p24 but for video content or sports, so far I think I like it but there are times it has "soap operaee" effect however the smoothness during fast moving scenes for sports, it seems especially well suited for. smile.gif
Edited by krichter1 - 1/11/14 at 10:55am
post #735 of 1605
The thing that disappointed me with CMD on my RS55 (aside from the color/gamma change) was that, for movies it was "too much," making them edge in to soap opera territory. But for video, like sports where I really wanted to use it, it seemed to do too little, as in I could barely discern any advantage, almost as if it just couldn't really make up for the inherent limitations of the DILA motion.

I'm hoping for better with this year's model, since they touted it so much, at least for sports. (And it would be cool if it were usable for movies too, as it would preserve detail otherwise lost by blur..).
post #736 of 1605
Hey Guys,
Thanks for assistance and all the info you have been sharing.
Have the RS57U up and running for a few days now and have been really loving it.
Well except the HDMI handshake issue that everyone has, I have it too.
Outside of that, this really has been an awesome first projector experience!

Hopefully quick question about 3D.
I have a 133" screen innovations BD zero edge, D*TV, xbox 360, HTPC, and BluRay running thru a yamaha 2030 (direct), out via Atlona AT-HDTX/AT-HDRX
I bought the JVC 3D emitter (thru AVS like the projector smile.gif) and got 5 pairs of Samsung SSG-5100GB 3D Active Glasses
They don't work at all together, at least not in the my setup.
Also my first 3D attempt.
I've read up about screens retaining polarization, and prior SI screen retained a lot. Also read about JVC being horizontal polarized, and apparently these glasses are vertical (at least it seems that way as the red/blue blurry lines are vertical).

Before I pack these glasses up and ship back to amazon and hunt around for other brands, I wanted to see if you all had a suggestion for brands or if there is anything else I can do get this to work?

Here is a pic of the side-by-side image without SBS active on the projector



Here is a pic with one glasses lense in front of the camera (using iphone)


Hoping that $180 a pair (or $900 for 5) for the JVC brand is not the only option I have......or 3D is going to take a back seat for a long time.
Searched here and google, not much luck so far. Read some posts/pages about some working, but my first attempt failed.

thanks for any input.
Marc
post #737 of 1605
A screen which retains polarization requires the JVC OEM glasses unfortunately. You could keep your eye out on ebay for the first or second gen models which I've seen for less than $100.
post #738 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

A screen which retains polarization requires the JVC OEM glasses unfortunately. You could keep your eye out on ebay for the first or second gen models which I've seen for less than $100.

No. Such a screen doesn't require any special orientation of the polarizers in the glasses. If a screen has a high polarization extinction ratio (most don't) (high ratio means high preservation of the polarization) and a projector like the JVCs which have their chip polarizers all aligned in the same direction, horizontally in the case of the JVCs, the Sony polarizers are not aligned all in the same direction, one will get a brighter image through the glasses by choosing a pair of glasses whose fixed polarizers are aligned like the projector (that is, the fixed polarizers match the direction of the chip polarizers). Theoretically, if the screen were to have an extremely high polarization extinction ratio, the glasses wouldn't even need a polarizer. With most screens, the polarization coming out of the JVC will be destroyed and will have to be repolarized by the glasses and to that extent the orientation of the polarizers in the projector and glasses is irrelevant.

Hi Keven. I know you meant all that. smile.gif
Edited by mark haflich - 1/11/14 at 12:00am
post #739 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Bergh View Post

Any thoughts out there about the (must be) upcoming REAL 4K projectors from JVC probably Cedia 2014?
Personally I hope for at least 1200 calibrated lumens to fill my 150" cine scope screen and with II and possibly E-shift 4 to fake 8K.
MSRP?

According to Krane JVC were to show a 4K consumer projector that was in the works at Cedia 2013, but apparently decided against it, with BluRay 4k tech/patent issues almost nutted out, one can be 99.99% that there will be a JVC True 4K consumes offering at Cedia 2014.
post #740 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

The thing that disappointed me with CMD on my RS55 (aside from the color/gamma change) was that, for movies it was "too much," making them edge in to soap opera territory. But for video, like sports where I really wanted to use it, it seemed to do too little, as in I could barely discern any advantage, almost as if it just couldn't really make up for the inherent limitations of the DILA motion.

I'm hoping for better with this year's model, since they touted it so much, at least for sports. (And it would be cool if it were usable for movies too, as it would preserve detail otherwise lost by blur..).

I also felt that it was "too much" for movies on the 4810 and I think it looks much better on the 57. Unfortunately, I also saw some artifacts (CMD low on the 57) without even looking for them, so I still don't think I'll be using it. I haven't tried it for sports though, so I can't comment on how it looks with that type of content.
post #741 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Wow Darin you certainly knew the scene to test DI/II with. I watched last night and at marker 1:25:50 just as Armin says "death comes..." you can clearly see some pumping? and gamma changes where it appears to crush whites on his forehead (look at the scene as a whole between 1:24:45 - 1:31:20). This was with my aperture clamped at -3 & -5 but when I fully clamped to -15 the errors all but disappeared. At a mid clamp of -7 I could still see some lag & gamma crushing but only slightly; seemingly the sweet spot for this scene. Mind you it was noticeable to me (not good), but nothing terrible and seemed to recover pretty quick. The last scene's fade to black from the bright scene was top notch and I literally could not make out the screen to the surrounding black velvet drapes. However when the bottom credits began to show you could see the delay of the iris take the letters from a light grey to full white on black (which looked good after the point; no halos or smearing/tearing).

So it appears the more you clamp the manual iris, the less work the DI has to do. I ran the rest of the movie at -5 Iris/Auto2/ClBk=Low and it looked excellent (and I thought I had seen this movie before but I had not and thought it was fantastic)! IMO whatever downside there was with running in DI mode it was overshadowed by the excellent inky blacks creating a contrast that produced a very immersive viewing experience.

The other news on the HDMI resolution issue… I put the Darbee back in the chain without issue (looked best at 10-20% with ClBk=Low). So in my config all is good without the Radiance in the mix as they just don't play well together (for me).

The movie as a whole was beautiful and I could see why you and Kris recommended it for reference viewing. The scenes in Istanbul on the building tops as well as the meeting square were excellent and some of the best I've scene to date on these JVC's.

smile.gif

I've always felt it was one of the best looking Blu-ray transfers out there. Most of it was shot with prime lenses plus a lot of the long shots were actually shot in 70mm to match the sharpness of the close ups. I like the movie as well.

I discovered the interrogation scene when the Planar 8150 I had showed nasty clipping artifacts on Clive Owens nose. During the interview the bridge of his nose would completely clip leaving a big white blob where his nose was supposed to be. It was pretty bad. I wanted to see how the JVC would perform. I did notice the gamma pumping on the guys forehead. That was tamed dramatically when we put the projector in Super White. There is still clipping on Clive Owen's nose, but the JVC doesn't make it go all white, instead it retains the flesh tone so it isn't quite as obvious. If Zombie had this disc he should be able to recreate the issue with the Planar he has on hand. Would be interesting to know how the Sony's deal with it as well. The movie is about $14 on Amazon and despite the absolutely retched cover, it is a very good movie.
post #742 of 1605
thanks for the heads up, I will pick up a copy of this movie and check out that scene on the 8130 / 1000 and the 57.
post #743 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

No. Such a screen doesn't require any special orientation of the polarizers in the glasses. If a screen has a high polarization extinction ratio (most don't) (high ratio means high preservation of the polarization) and a projector like the JVCs which have their chip polarizers all aligned in the same direction, horizontally in the case of the JVCs, the Sony polarizers are not aligned all in the same direction, one will get a brighter image through the glasses by choosing a pair of glasses whose fixed polarizers are aligned like the projector (that is, the fixed polarizers match the direction of the chip polarizers). Theoretically, if the screen were to have an extremely high polarization extinction ratio, the glasses wouldn't even need a polarizer. With most screens, the polarization coming out of the JVC will be destroyed and will have to be repolarized by the glasses and to that extent the orientation of the polarizers in the projector and glasses is irrelevant.

Hi Keven. I know you meant all that. smile.gif

Sure I did… you gave the full recipe and I just told him... "tastes like chicken". wink.gif
post #744 of 1605
Nice try. You were thrown out a second. You said it needed special glasses. You meant it needed special glasses to get the extra 3D brightness of a high extinction screen with a JVC.
post #745 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

You said it needed special glasses. You meant it needed special glasses to get the extra 3D brightness of a high extinction screen with a JVC.
I took it that he meant you would lose too much of the ft-lamberts with a screen retaining polarization and glasses oriented the wrong way, not just compared to the extra ft-lamberts with glasses oriented the right way, but compared to the screen not retaining polarization. Of course it is a little more complicated than that, but good to keep in mind that the polarization retention is working against you with the wrong glasses.

--Darin
post #746 of 1605
It would depend. If for example one used a Sony projector on a high extinction ratio screen, vertical vs horizontal polarizer glasses wouldn't have much of an effect lumens wise, you would need 45 polarizes and only two or one of the three chips would be lined up. It really doesn't matter because except for Firehawk LS, I know of no non silver screen that retains polarization worth a damn.
post #747 of 1605
I just hooked up my X700 PJ and am having color space issues when the projector is set to AUTO as its color space setting. My pre/pro (Yamaha CX-A5000) apparently outputs RGB and the X700 gets that right (the CX-A5000 menus and stuff show up correctly). However, if I switch to my Oppo BDP-103D (through the CX-A5000 -- set in Direct video mode), then the colors are wrong (unless you have a strong fondness for magenta). To get a proper color image from the Oppo I have to set it to either YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 and then set the projector to the same setting.

Is anyone else seeing this behavior? Any suggestions on how to fix it?
post #748 of 1605
I changed everything in my chain to 422 (no Auto anywhere… Oppo->Denon->RS57).
post #749 of 1605
krichter and others.

Have you watched any more movies on your new JVC? Impressions?

At this point, I must enjoy my JVC projector vicariously through you.
post #750 of 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I changed everything in my chain to 422 (no Auto anywhere… Oppo->Denon->RS57).

Hmm, not sure how to change the color space for my Yamaha pre/pro. Guess I need to do some research.
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