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CES 2014 - Page 17

post #481 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sragona View Post

Of course most people don't frequent this forum, but if Katzmaier starts talking about them in his reviews of other TVs on CNET, and tech blogs start mentioning them in a positive light because they are expecting this amazing TV, then that can turn the tide of the average consumer's opinion. Most trends in CE are started by the early adopters. That's what Vizio is trying to do with this model.

To be honest, we don't even sell Vizios at Paul's (except for one cheap e-series refurb), but I'm still hoping the TV materializes and shakes up the industry because it looks like a great TV in every aspect. I've just been burned one to many times waiting for vaporware products...

I hear ya' on the vaporware. Let's just hope that Vizio has spent the last two years planning for the marathon they have just started...

And the buzz even through CNET won't really start until the R Series has been released and outfits like CNET and others get production panels to evaluate...

If HDR and 4K can be made real in any way by then (through Netflix, Amazon, or whatever), that could be a contrast in picture quality that get's the broader market to view Vizio in an entirely different light...

Let's all just hope that once the dust has cleared a year from now, this has all turned out to a lot more significant than yet another chest-beating bragging event that only results in vaporware (for which the immediate release of the new Vizio FALD E-Series is a promising first sign...).

-fafrd
post #482 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


for which the immediate release of the new Vizio FALD E-Series is a promising first sign...

-fafrd

That's another thing I'm curious to see. Will Vizio's FALD translate into an actually better picture than Samsung, et all's "ELLD"? I know that FALD is the holy grail of LEDs around here, but I'm wondering if that feature alone will make a big difference, or is the great picture from past FALD sets due to it being just a high-end panel and feature set to begin with?
post #483 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sragona View Post

That's another thing I'm curious to see. Will Vizio's FALD translate into an actually better picture than Samsung, et all's "ELLD"? I know that FALD is the holy grail of LEDs around here, but I'm wondering if that feature alone will make a big difference, or is the great picture from past FALD sets due to it being just a high-end panel and feature set to begin with?

Full array should help with image uniformity versus edge-lit regardless of local dimming.

Local dimming should be far more effective on a full-array backlight than with edge-lighting.

But with the very small number of dimming zones that Vizio is implementing on the E-Series, local-dimming should be far less effective.

So the early positive reviews of the E-Series are a bit of a mystery...

Perhaps Vizio is bringing some new technology to the table in addition to the basic FALD of the past. The 'active pixel tuning' they promote for the M-Series and above sounds like it could be something new and perhaps some elements of that new technology have made their way into the E-Series despite the lack of promotion on Vizios part.

We really need to wait until an experienced and critical reviewer gets ahold of one of these new low-diming-zone E-Series FALD panels to get more clarity on what Vizio is doing.


-fafrd

p.s. But the fact that Dolby is working with Vizio on this is hopefully reason for optimism...
post #484 of 529

How long does it take for these companies to release the prices on these sets? I really want to know how much the sony 65 950b will cost!!!

post #485 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

How long does it take for these companies to release the prices on these sets? I really want to know how much the sony 65 950b will cost!!!

The estimate for the 65" X950b is around $6000-$7000. Most manufacturers will put out official pricing around Feb. / March.
post #486 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

The estimate for the 65" X950b is around $6000-$7000. Most manufacturers will put out official pricing around Feb. / March.

I would add $1000 to that.
post #487 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

I would add $1000 to that.

And then it would probably drop a lil after like the first month huh?
post #488 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

The estimate for the 65" X950b is around $6000-$7000. Most manufacturers will put out official pricing around Feb. / March.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

I would add $1000 to that.
Who is spending this type of money for 65" TVS? It is a real shame to see these ridiculous prices for these TVs.
post #489 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post


Who is spending this type of money for 65" TVS? It is a real shame to see these ridiculous prices for these TVs.
this is all estimations,but,if it come's in the range of 3500-4500+it receive's a very good and reliable reviews,then I'll go for it,I'm a little disappointed with my 65la9700.as i came from 64f8500,which is by far a better set.
post #490 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post

this is all estimations,but,if it come's in the range of 3500-4500+it receive's a very good and reliable reviews,then I'll go for it,I'm a little disappointed with my 65la9700.as i came from 64f8500,which is by far a better set.

That would be amazing if they were that low. Id be happy if they were just the price of the 900a
post #491 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post

this is all estimations,but,if it come's in the range of 3500-4500+it receive's a very good and reliable reviews,then I'll go for it,I'm a little disappointed with my 65la9700.as i came from 64f8500,which is by far a better set.

While nothing is set in stone, I can assure you that they will be FAR above $3500-$4500.
post #492 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

And then it would probably drop a lil after like the first month huh?

Maybe, maybe not. With Sony's rather high 4K SKU count, I don't think they are expecting much from this model. They will probably leave it priced at a premium. There likely won't be many sets that compete with it from a quality standpoint. They are trying to establish that they can still make some of best TV's on the market. I think this will accomplish that. This is my pick for the shootout, as far as LCD is concerned.
post #493 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

The estimate for the 65" X950b is around $6000-$7000. Most manufacturers will put out official pricing around Feb. / March.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

I would add $1000 to that.

For that price it would make sense to buy an OLED from LG or Samsung......
post #494 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Maybe, maybe not. With Sony's rather high 4K SKU count, I don't think they are expecting much from this model. They will probably leave it priced at a premium. There likely won't be many sets that compete with it from a quality standpoint. They are trying to establish that they can still make some of best TV's on the market. I think this will accomplish that. This is my pick for the shootout, as far as LCD is concerned.

Lol for my sake I sure hope your wrong but that sounds about right. Thank you very much for the insight. Probably will just buy the 900a then.
post #495 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

Lol for my sake I sure hope your wrong but that sounds about right. Thank you very much for the insight. Probably will just buy the 900a then.

I just can't get past those speakers! I am a little irritated that I am forced to make PQ sacrifices if I want the model without speakers(X850). I am left with a sour taste in my mouth, as it feels like Sony is forcing their idea of sound in my face. I suppose one could always buy the X950, but that is just not in the cards for most(Including myself).
post #496 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post


For that price it would make sense to buy an OLED from LG or Samsung......

Potentially. If they weren't curved, and they were the same size. As it stands, I wouldn't purchase anything that's curved under 90". I just don't see the benefit at those smaller sizes. And 55" is just too small. 10" makes a big difference. (Cue "That's we she said" joke...)
post #497 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

I just can't get past those speakers! I am a little irritated that I am forced to make PQ sacrifices if I want the model without speakers(X850). I am left with a sour taste in my mouth, as it feels like Sony is forcing their idea of sound in my face. I suppose one could always buy the X950, but that is just not in the cards for most(Including myself).

I used to hate the speakers myself but the more I looked at the tv and picture quality the more I came to like it. Not only that but the 900 has passive which the 2014 models won't have. So there's pros and cons to each I think
post #498 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

And then it would probably drop a lil after like the first month huh?
Usually TV's do not drop that fast in price, however this year the 4K sets where an exception. There was a lot of speculation these new 4K sets would be FALD, once consumers new they where not, the price dropped.......
post #499 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post


Who is spending this type of money for 65" TVS? It is a real shame to see these ridiculous prices for these TVs.

I'm thinking the same thing. With the job market scarce and the cost of living constantly rising, I just can't see there being a big market for TV's above $4000.

The average TV customer cares mainly about:

- Size

- Value

- Decent Quality

If a person is faced with buying a 1080p 70" Sharp for $1800 or a 4K, FALD, 65" Sony for $6500, I'm willing to bet most people will walk away with the bigger and cheaper model.

Price is the main factor that holds back 4K, FALD and OLED. To the CEO of Sony $6500 probably doesn't seem like much, but to the average American who has kids to feed and dept to pay off, that is way too much for a TV. Therefore, the main market for this TV will be the rich, and even they may have trouble spending that much on just a 65".
post #500 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

I'm thinking the same thing. With the job market scarce and the cost of living constantly rising, I just can't see there being a big market for TV's above $4000.

.....snip.....

If a person is faced with buying a 1080p 70" Sharp for $1800 or a 4K, FALD, 65" Sony for $6500, I'm willing to bet most people will walk away with the bigger and cheaper model.

...snip....

Most people would but they're not trying to sell their premium set to most people.

I'd be willing to go $4K but beyond that, I'd find another solution.
post #501 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

I'm thinking the same thing. With the job market scarce and the cost of living constantly rising, I just can't see there being a big market for TV's above $4000.

The average TV customer cares mainly about:

- Size

- Value

- Decent Quality

If a person is faced with buying a 1080p 70" Sharp for $1800 or a 4K, FALD, 65" Sony for $6500, I'm willing to bet most people will walk away with the bigger and cheaper model.

Price is the main factor that holds back 4K, FALD and OLED. To the CEO of Sony $6500 probably doesn't seem like much, but to the average American who has kids to feed and dept to pay off, that is way too much for a TV. Therefore, the main market for this TV will be the rich, and even they may have trouble spending that much on just a 65".

They're not as clueless as you think they are. They are under no illusion that they are going to sell tons of these. They will add a meaningful amount of profit though, as they will sell more than you might think. There are quite a few people who are willing to spend that much on a TV. The mere existence of those models does not mean Sony is out of touch with the market. In fact, it is models like these that help drive sales of the models that most people can afford. It is a halo product. It serves its' purpose, and WILL sell.
post #502 of 529
I hope Vizio sells enough FALD sets in all price ranges to force a reevaluation by its competitors. Nothing like high sales numbers to catch your competitor's attention. Hopefully, if Vizio does well the 2015 tv lineup will look very different.
post #503 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhck66 View Post

I hope Vizio sells enough FALD sets in all price ranges to force a reevaluation by its competitors. Nothing like high sales numbers to catch your competitor's attention. Hopefully, if Vizio does well the 2015 tv lineup will look very different.
I guess if Vizio charges $2,000 for a TV that Samsung charges $6,000 for they would need to sell 3 Vizio's for every 1 Samsung.

Also, don't forget Samsung and all the others will also have cheaper models. We have only seen their flagships at CES. The question is will they have lower end 4K TV's or will all their 4K TV's be priced out of reach for many this time around. As the years go on 4K will take over 1080p so the premium for it will just go down naturally anyway.

Plus, people like and trust Samsung electronic's while Vizio still needs to work on their reputation. They are still looked at as a low end budget manufacturer, not as low as some of the others but when you think premium, Vizio doesn't come to mind.
post #504 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I guess if Vizio charges $2,000 for a TV that Samsung charges $6,000 for they would need to sell 3 Vizio's for every 1 Samsung.

Also, don't forget Samsung and all the others will also have cheaper models. We have only seen their flagships at CES. The question is will they have lower end 4K TV's or will all their 4K TV's be priced out of reach for many this time around. As the years go on 4K will take over 1080p so the premium for it will just go down naturally anyway.

Plus, people like and trust Samsung electronic's while Vizio still needs to work on their reputation. They are still looked at as a low end budget manufacturer, not as low as some of the others but when you think premium, Vizio doesn't come to mind.
If Samsung managed to release a 46" 4k display at or near $1500 USD I would forego a Vizio losing 4" simply for Samsung consumer rep. I know there is little benefit to 4k at that screen size,but for my small gaming area which I sit less than 8ft away it would a semi-future proof investment.
post #505 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

If Samsung managed to release a 46" 4k display at or near $1500 USD I would forego a Vizio losing 4" simply for Samsung consumer rep. I know there is little benefit to 4k at that screen size,but for my small gaming area which I sit less than 8ft away it would a semi-future proof investment.

Unfortunately the smallest Samsung 4K (funny how the UHD name hasn't caught on yet) this year is 50". That's for the flat HU8500. According to a Samsung rep the HU8500 won't be much more than the curved 1080p H8000. Once we know the price of the H8000 we'll get a better idea of the pricing for Samsungs 4K TVs, though I'm guessing the cheapest 4K could be as low as $2700 for the 50" (starting MSRP).
post #506 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I guess if Vizio charges $2,000 for a TV that Samsung charges $6,000 for they would need to sell 3 Vizio's for every 1 Samsung.

Don't go applying to be CFO of anything anytime soon.
Quote:
Plus, people like and trust Samsung electronic's while Vizio still needs to work on their reputation. They are still looked at as a low end budget manufacturer, not as low as some of the others but when you think premium, Vizio doesn't come to mind.

That's certainly true. Of course, the same was said of Samsung not very long ago.
post #507 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Don't go applying to be CFO of anything anytime soon.
That's certainly true. Of course, the same was said of Samsung not very long ago.
Lol, I know that isn't true but it sounded good. biggrin.gif
post #508 of 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Don't go applying to be CFO of anything anytime soon.

I was thinking this. Thank you for saying it. biggrin.gif
post #509 of 529
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my statement but my emphasis was FALD. As far as 4K is concerned it will be up to the larger TV buying public that has never heard of AVS to deem it a sucess or not. AVSers are generally well informed about new technologies and form the basis of a hobby but consider that most people, those who never heard of AVS, view TVs as an appliance I am more skeptical in its success. I have seen many derogatory and/or dismissive phrasing of Joe Six Pack in many threads to reference their lack of knowledge in one specific technology but they do not consider that Joe may not find TV techology all that exciting. Bring up beautiful women or a game then Joe turns into a Savant.
Edited by jhck66 - 1/18/14 at 3:57pm
post #510 of 529
With 120 hz 4k tv, the pc is going to move to the tv with gaming, not to say PS4 will be out done. Who needs to sit at a desk with a 24 inch monitor.
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