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Omaha Area Dream Theater Build - Page 2

post #31 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenP View Post

Cool, BTW I'd love to add your theater to my course, down the road! We'll chat about that later.

In the meantime, I guess I won't starting driving. Yet. wink.gif

If you're close to Denver, it may be cheaper to fly with 3 airlines servicing Omaha. smile.gif I'm already talking with HuskerOmaha about some type of get-together. Will certainly keep this thread updated accordingly. smile.gif
post #32 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinmoval View Post

Decision time....

I have 3 columns on each side of the room that will be about 5' apart. The middle ones are currently wired for the surround channels and are straight to the sides of what I'm considering the primary listening row. Should I pull a speaker wire to each of the other columns "just in case"? 13.1 surround sound seems a bit overkill but some people probably think a room like this already is. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what it involves and what kind of processing would be needed, but we could do a matrix type of surround like the theaters use.......surrounds in all 3 columns....

Your space may be big enough to use something like that?
post #33 of 117
Thread Starter 
I ran out of speaker wire but more is on the way. This room is easily going to consume 1,000 feet of speaker wire with all of the runs going out to the separate room. Each channel needs 28' after it leaves the room. The subs are a big consumer as they are about the longest run short of the front right and center.

All of the electrical rough in is done except for accent lighting under the bar and along the step treads. I'm thinking about running some under the toe kick on the cabinets in the back. I'll be controlling the lighting with a 6 zone Lutron Grafik Eye.

I framed the step from the lower level to the upper today. I still need to frame the step coming the basement into the room. Also started on the insulation where I don't still have to run speaker wire.

I have to go back to work tomorrow so progress will slow a bit. All in all I'm happy with where things are at as I was hoping to get framing done before going back and managed to get a bit passed that. smile.gif

I'll be measuring up what I need for maple plywood, trim, and crown tonight and probably go shopping this weekend.
post #34 of 117
So where did you order your speaker wire from? I remember when I did my theater I got most of my cables from Monoprice and outdoorspeaker.com, but I lucked out and found a big spool of speaker wire at Home Depot on clearance. It was in the clearance area because they had cut like a foot out of it or something like that. Ended up saving a lot of money.
post #35 of 117
Thread Starter 
I ended up getting it on eBay. $38.50 for a 250' roll of 12/2 shipped. It's CL2 rated too. I was about to pull the trigger on it from Monoprice when I thought I'd Google it quick just to see what came up. The link to an eBay seller was one of the first ones that popped up. Monoprice was a lot higher ($81.41 + shipping) but is typically where I get this kind of stuff. I did order my HDMI cables from them as they had a 15% coupon on top of their already good prices. They've provided me great service over the years but I can't justify paying twice as much.

I ended up picking up more cat6 on eBay too from the same vendor. smile.gif
post #36 of 117
Thread Starter 
Good evening! Here are some updated photos. Just did some cleaning tonight to have some decent pics to share.


The projector soffit... You'll see the outlet box and some of the can light wires hanging down. All of the AC is tacked onto the joist on the left and the HDMI and speaker wires will be on the right.




Taken from the front right corner... You can now see the knee wall is in place.




Stairs going up... I'll PL400 the tread down on the top one but will likely only screw the lower tread down in case I ever need to get a wire from the outside wall over to the knee wall. For now the power to the knee wall goes through it and I'll be pulling a cat6 through "just because".




The right wall... I plan on sconces in the middle of each insulated section. Is a scone in that front section too close to the screen? I really don't want to put them on a separate circuit but will if I have too. It will still be at least 4' to the right of the edge of the screen and about 2 1/2' off the front wall.




Taken from the front left corner...




I haven't shown you this one yet but might have done it differently it I were to do it again (which I never will wink.gif). These two 3" pipes go down under the footing and come up under the steps. It certainly would have been easier to just put sleeves in the forms when they poured the walls as I'm adding about 5' of wire to each channel. I'm running all the speaker wire through one and the HDMI/cat6 through the other. The other will obviously have some room left over. smile.gif All AC circuits are running through the top of the doorway next to the HVAC.



Standing in the doorway...
post #37 of 117
Thread Starter 
I'm leaning towards a pair of the HS 24s at the moment. I had a pair of eD 18s in my last theater along with 4 12s. I'm going to pull 8 wires for subs though for expansion if deemed necessary.
post #38 of 117
SVS makes great subs too. I would check them out with their free shipping and 45 day return policy. Rythmic and Outlaw subs as well.
post #39 of 117
Probably too late to change it now but I wouldn't have done the wall the way that you did it. Your room seems plenty wide, I think you could have gotten by better with centering the front row of seating and then having a smaller but still generous step up on both sides, not just on one. From experience with guests in my theater, everybody wants to sit as centered as possible.

In your overhead diagram, what is the row of smaller squares that are showing up in between the seating rows?
post #40 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

SVS makes great subs too. I would check them out with their free shipping and 45 day return policy. Rythmic and Outlaw subs as well.

They all make great subs! However, I'm somewhat of a DIY guy in this space. I do woodworking for fun and building subs is a great stress reliever and a way for me to save money along with justifying to my wife why I need all the tools. smile.gif Below is a link to a build I did for my last theater. Ultimately the rear projection TV was replaced with a 10' screen and the subs fit nicely behind it where they still "live" today as they weigh too much to move. smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1186978/ed-19ov-2-llt-to-15-hz-build-thread


I'm still waiting to read Josh Ricci's impressions of the HS 24. I'm like a couple months out from being ready anyway. Might need to host a subwoofer shootout to see what sounds good in the room. smile.gif
post #41 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

Probably too late to change it now but I wouldn't have done the wall the way that you did it. Your room seems plenty wide, I think you could have gotten by better with centering the front row of seating and then having a smaller but still generous step up on both sides, not just on one. From experience with guests in my theater, everybody wants to sit as centered as possible.

In your overhead diagram, what is the row of smaller squares that are showing up in between the seating rows?


Hey Nebrunner! I'm still blown away by your sound containment. For those who haven't had the privilege to experience his theater, I was amazed at how quiet it was in the room outside of his theater while the theater was playing at reference levels.


I thought about doing 2 flights of steps for aesthetics and love the look but that wall is more functional than anything as it "catches" bass coming along the side wall. I certainly don't know the physics behind hit but can confirm it makes a notable difference for those sitting in the front row. I did something similar 2 houses ago as an experiment and wouldn't have it any other way. The tactile effect improved dramatically when closing it over to the side wall. I hear what you're saying though and may place an end table over there and squeeze the seats together a bit to center them more. The knee wall is about 17' long.

The small squares are short barstools. Could probably put regular chairs in there too. I'm leaning away from the back row of seating now and just putting in cabinets and a counter. It's somewhat of a spousal request. That way I can have the popcorn popper in the room and a small fridge on the end.

Any suggestions on what wires to pull where? I'll have 2 HDMI going to the projector along with a cat6. I'll also be pulling a cat6 to the knee wall, back wall and front wall too. The wire is cheap enough and now is the time. smile.gif
post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinmoval View Post

The small squares are short barstools. Could probably put regular chairs in there too. I'm leaning away from the back row of seating now and just putting in cabinets and a counter.
I think you have the right idea. From your original layout, I don't think anyone will want to sit in recliners behind a row of stools or chairs (and a counter) due to sight lines around people and above the seating and counter. You might get away with the opposite arrangement (counter behind the second row), though.
post #43 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinmoval View Post



They all make great subs! However, I'm somewhat of a DIY guy in this space. I do woodworking for fun and building subs is a great stress reliever and a way for me to save money along with justifying to my wife why I need all the tools. smile.gif Below is a link to a build I did for my last theater. Ultimately the rear projection TV was replaced with a 10' screen and the subs fit nicely behind it where they still "live" today as they weigh too much to move. smile.gif



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1186978/ed-19ov-2-llt-to-15-hz-build-thread





I'm still waiting to read Josh Ricci's impressions of the HS 24. I'm like a couple months out from being ready anyway. Might need to host a subwoofer shootout to see what sounds good in the room. smile.gif

 



DIY subs - nice. A room your size could do 4 subs and sound fantastic.
post #44 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

I think you have the right idea. From your original layout, I don't think anyone will want to sit in recliners behind a row of stools or chairs (and a counter) due to sight lines around people and above the seating and counter. You might get away with the opposite arrangement (counter behind the second row), though.

Noah, I'm with you. I was going to put the recliners on a riser but think it would get a little tight which isn't good either. Here's a new drawing. HuskerOmaha thought 7 stools might be too tight so I backed it down to 6. I may just put in lounge chairs there since they'd be a little more comfy than bar stools. The counter height there will be roughly 36". That way someone would be able to have a place for a plate or their beverage. I could always bring in bar stools from the bar area outside the room for football parties and back them up to the back counter. We're a family of 4. If we have friends over we could always stick the kids on bean bags too as the space between the front row of seating and the screen is kinda big.

post #45 of 117
Now I understand what you are doing. Sounds like a great idea, can't wait to see it.
post #46 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinmoval View Post

Decision time....

I have 3 columns on each side of the room that will be about 5' apart. The middle ones are currently wired for the surround channels and are straight to the sides of what I'm considering the primary listening row. Should I pull a speaker wire to each of the other columns "just in case"? 13.1 surround sound seems a bit overkill but some people probably think a room like this already is. Thoughts?
dlbeck is having a 9.2 system with two surrounds on each side. Each surround is slightly in front of the row. There are several ways to handle the multiple side surrounds:
  1. Use front wides for the first pair if using a receiver
  2. Copy the channels and delay one set of surrounds to eliminate comb filtering from the two identical speakers
  3. Copy the channels and add an all pass filter to eliminate comb filtering from the two identical speakers
  4. Upmix using Auro-3D

Besides using a receiver, you can also use the following methods:
  1. HTPC with multi-channel DAC
  2. Use an iNuke DSP amp on the side surrounds to duplicate the channel and add delay
  3. Use external processors from QSC or Behringer

I hope to be getting a beta copy soon of Auro-3D which will work as a plugin with JRiver Media Center. The plugin will cost around $1600. It will allow upmixing Height and Voice of God channels. dlbeck is wiring his theater for extra surrounds/heights in case he decides to go this route in the future.





You should check out FoLLgoTT's build in the DIY speaker/subwoofer forum. He is getting a great bass frequency response by using a Single Bass Array (SBA) method. This requires about 2' of insulation on the back wall, though.
post #47 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

to be getting a beta copy soon of Auro-3D which will work as a plugin with JRiver Media Center. The plugin will cost around $1600. It will allow upmixing Height and Voice of God channels. dlbeck is wiring his theater for extra surrounds/heights in case he decides to go this route in the future.





You should check out FoLLgoTT's build in the DIY speaker/subwoofer forum. He is getting a great bass frequency response by using a Single Bass Array (SBA) method. This requires about 2' of insulation on the back wall, though.


OH MY!!! biggrin.gif
post #48 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

dlbeck is having a 9.2 system with two surrounds on each side. Each surround is slightly in front of the row. There are several ways to handle the multiple side surrounds:
  1. Use front wides for the first pair if using a receiver
  2. Copy the channels and delay one set of surrounds to eliminate comb filtering from the two identical speakers
  3. Copy the channels and add an all pass filter to eliminate comb filtering from the two identical speakers
  4. Upmix using Auro-3D

Besides using a receiver, you can also use the following methods:
  1. HTPC with multi-channel DAC
  2. Use an iNuke DSP amp on the side surrounds to duplicate the channel and add delay
  3. Use external processors from QSC or Behringer

I hope to be getting a beta copy soon of Auro-3D which will work as a plugin with JRiver Media Center. The plugin will cost around $1600. It will allow upmixing Height and Voice of God channels. dlbeck is wiring his theater for extra surrounds/heights in case he decides to go this route in the future.





You should check out FoLLgoTT's build in the DIY speaker/subwoofer forum. He is getting a great bass frequency response by using a Single Bass Array (SBA) method. This requires about 2' of insulation on the back wall, though.


Holy cow. I want voice of god speakers and those matrixed surrounds.

I swear this build thread looks very similar design to a theater I've watched a few movies in....
post #49 of 117
I dont think your sconces are too close to the screen, based on the room size.....you can always look at different sconce designs to limit the light pattern.....
post #50 of 117
All of those speakers and only one sub? Two at a minimum and four to make the room the best it can be.
post #51 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

All of those speakers and only one sub? Two at a minimum and four to make the room the best it can be.

I've never done less than two and am pulling 8 leads. smile.gif
post #52 of 117
When is the "Omaha Area (MizzouValley) Sub GTG" taking place? Can we demo those LS9s vs some Noesis?
post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

dlbeck is having a 9.2 system with two surrounds on each side. Each surround is slightly in front of the row. There are several ways to handle the multiple side surrounds:


Besides using a receiver, you can also use the following methods:
  1. HTPC with multi-channel DAC
  2. Use an iNuke DSP amp on the side surrounds to duplicate the channel and add delay
  3. Use external processors from QSC or Behringer

Regarding the topic of multiple SIDE SURROUNDS.... You mention powering the extra pair of side surrounds with an iNuke DSP and adding delay.

How would one determine how much delay to add?
post #54 of 117
Per Dr Toole at Cedia, 10 Mill seconds. About the time it takes sound to travel 10 ft
post #55 of 117
Thanks Jeff!
post #56 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

When is the "Omaha Area (MizzouValley) Sub GTG" taking place? Can we demo those LS9s vs some Noesis?

Probably not long after you come up and help with all of the hand sanding of the woodwork so we can get the lacquer on. wink.gif

I'd estimate a late spring event. I still need to get my woodshop set up so I can build everything right. I really miss my table saw right now. I have a buddy coming over next week to help with drywalling the ceiling and then I'll get the walls sheeted after that. Then painting and floor epoxy will happen after that. THEN I can finally move the tools in. I'm guessing 2-3 more weeks before I get to start cutting the woodwork.
post #57 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinmoval View Post

Probably not long after you come up and help with all of the hand sanding of the woodwork so we can get the lacquer on. wink.gif

I'd estimate a late spring event. I still need to get my woodshop set up so I can build everything right. I really miss my table saw right now. I have a buddy coming over next week to help with drywalling the ceiling and then I'll get the walls sheeted after that. Then painting and floor epoxy will happen after that. THEN I can finally move the tools in. I'm guessing 2-3 more weeks before I get to start cutting the woodwork.

So you are going to rock the ceiling AND the walls? Or just the wall sheeted with? Thought you were skipping drywall. Or are you talking about the outside/other rooms?
post #58 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

So you are going to rock the ceiling AND the walls? Or just the wall sheeted with? Thought you were skipping drywall. Or are you talking about the outside/other rooms?

I was talking about the wood shop. I want to get all of that done before moving the tools in so I don't have to work around them.
Edited by rkinmoval - 1/5/14 at 10:32am
post #59 of 117
Thread Starter 
Update....

I'm running wire and getting close to done (I think). What am I missing? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!


post #60 of 117
No electrical? wink.gif I guess my suggestion of desertdome's LS6's as SURROUNDS isn't going to work since you are doing the matrix version
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