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Options Matrix 8x8 for automation

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Would you like to help me buy a 8x8 matrix.

I like:
* Fast Switching
* 3D support / 36-bit DeepColor
* HDMI 1.4a (preferably)
* With Balluns Cat5/Cat6 requiring no energy in the destination port (preferably)
* IP control
* Driver is not the problem I can do it myself ( Control4 )
* EDID management or learning

http://www.hdtvsuppl...x-switcher.html

http://www.hdtvsuppl...rix-router.html

http://www.hdtvsuppl...witch-cat5.html

http://www.hdtvsuppl...i-switcher.html

Thanks
post #2 of 10
None of your links are working (at least for me)...

The best solution on the market remains the Crestron DM series of switchers which can be fully controlled via IP from any control system. We use them now within our AMX systems for those clients who want a reliable HDBT matrix but have a AMX front end.

While others swear by their products, including Pure Link, and AMX, the reality remains that they don't touch the Crestron DM matrix for reliability.

C4 does have their own HDMI matrix now, but I know nothing about it.

You can look at Aurora Multimedia which produces a 8x8 configurable HDBT matrix with local power to remote endpoints and appears to offer IP control.
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?section=products&id=277

The DXM-88-G2 is MSRP of $3,799
The DXCI-4-HDBT1-G2 input cards are $1,999 each (two needed)
The DXCO-4-HDBT1-G2 output cards are $1,999 each (two needed)
Transmitters and receivers are $375 each (up to 16 may be needed)

So, this is around a $14,000+ solution, and is TYPICAL of this type of high end product.

In comparison, the Crestron DM-MD-8x8 matrix has the following pricing:
DM-MD-8x8 (frame) - $4,300
DMC-CAT - HDBT input - $1,100 each (up to 8)
DMCO-55 - 4xHDBT output - $2,600 each (up to 2)
DM-RMC-100 (HDBT receiver) - $900 each (up to 8)
DM-TX-201C (HDBT transmitter) - $1,300 each (up to 8)

So, this is around a $30,000 solution at MSRP. $$$$$ biggrin.gif

The requirements are what kills the pricing on this and I've yet to see a good, price effective solution, which does what you want.

Give up a fair bit of everything, power locally, deal with flashes during switching, etc. and you can do a fair bit for under $5,000. You may have to go to RS232 control, and you may have to deal with some EDID issues, but overall, even if you have to switch a display or two, you can get a far cheaper solution which works reasonably well. But, it's all budgetary dependent.

If your HDMI sources are local, that will drastically impact pricing. There are also a few fixed solutions such as this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/gef-hdfst-848-8elr.jsp?prod_id=10914

But, I have no idea if it offers non-blanking switching or what level of EDID management it delivers.
It is a deal with a $8,999 MSRP.

Yeah, I'm sticking with component video HD switching in my home for a few more years I guess.
post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
post #4 of 10
I wish it were so easy.

The first and last links are to the same product with just a few less features on the last product.

All but one of the links you provided were to HDMI only matrices, which means you would need external HDBT converters (which is fine) but adds at least $200+ per transmitter/receiver pair if you need them for sure. (I use 50' - 75' HDMI cables without problem)

I would love to try the first and third product you have linked to, but I have no experience with them to know how well they truly work.

It's hard to find any serious reviews of these products beyond the site you linked to, but if you have fully matching 3D compliant 1080p displays, then you may have excellent results with either the first or third products. You may still have to deal with some audio issues.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

I wish it were so easy.

The first and last links are to the same product with just a few less features on the last product.

All but one of the links you provided were to HDMI only matrices, which means you would need external HDBT converters (which is fine) but adds at least $200+ per transmitter/receiver pair if you need them for sure. (I use 50' - 75' HDMI cables without problem)

I would love to try the first and third product you have linked to, but I have no experience with them to know how well they truly work.

It's hard to find any serious reviews of these products beyond the site you linked to, but if you have fully matching 3D compliant 1080p displays, then you may have excellent results with either the first or third products. You may still have to deal with some audio issues.

This isn't a 8x8 but it is a 8x4 that does routing by a single cat6 and also has IR routing built in. 8 receivers and the switch are around $4500. This is the one I plan to purchase. Do you see any reason not to?

edit: Sorry I forgot the link.

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI_Matrix_HDbaseT_HD4xSTPMX_over%20CAT6.html
Edited by auburnu008 - 12/27/13 at 9:50pm
post #7 of 10
That product is the exact same as the one you linked previously...
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/8-8-hdmi-matrix-switcher.html

Not sure of the quality. It is cheap, and fairly poorly documented overall, but does list some nice features for the money.

A-Neuvideo really bugs me because they don't have pricing on their website and the lack full documentation. So, I don't think they are the manufacturer, and I don't think they have a lot of the products that the original manufacturer does make. This is a big problem in the long term.

In fact, with all of these Chinese/Taiwanese/Korean import products it's a huge issue because support and warranty work will be questionable. But, the price is far better than the American built (or just owned) counterparts.

EDIT: Shinybow is the OEM for some of the products you continue to link to: http://www.shinybow.com.tw/ - Taiwanese company with minimal USA support. Perhaps good stuff, but they aren't exactly going after many reviews of their products here in the states.
Edited by AV_Integrated - 12/27/13 at 9:08pm
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

None of your links are working (at least for me)...

The best solution on the market remains the Crestron DM series of switchers which can be fully controlled via IP from any control system. We use them now within our AMX systems for those clients who want a reliable HDBT matrix but have a AMX front end.

While others swear by their products, including Pure Link, and AMX, the reality remains that they don't touch the Crestron DM matrix for reliability.

C4 does have their own HDMI matrix now, but I know nothing about it.

You can look at Aurora Multimedia which produces a 8x8 configurable HDBT matrix with local power to remote endpoints and appears to offer IP control.
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?section=products&id=277

The DXM-88-G2 is MSRP of $3,799
The DXCI-4-HDBT1-G2 input cards are $1,999 each (two needed)
The DXCO-4-HDBT1-G2 output cards are $1,999 each (two needed)
Transmitters and receivers are $375 each (up to 16 may be needed)

So, this is around a $14,000+ solution, and is TYPICAL of this type of high end product.

In comparison, the Crestron DM-MD-8x8 matrix has the following pricing:
DM-MD-8x8 (frame) - $4,300
DMC-CAT - HDBT input - $1,100 each (up to 8)
DMCO-55 - 4xHDBT output - $2,600 each (up to 2)
DM-RMC-100 (HDBT receiver) - $900 each (up to 8)
DM-TX-201C (HDBT transmitter) - $1,300 each (up to 8)

So, this is around a $30,000 solution at MSRP. $$$$$ biggrin.gif

The requirements are what kills the pricing on this and I've yet to see a good, price effective solution, which does what you want.

Give up a fair bit of everything, power locally, deal with flashes during switching, etc. and you can do a fair bit for under $5,000. You may have to go to RS232 control, and you may have to deal with some EDID issues, but overall, even if you have to switch a display or two, you can get a far cheaper solution which works reasonably well. But, it's all budgetary dependent.

If your HDMI sources are local, that will drastically impact pricing. There are also a few fixed solutions such as this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/gef-hdfst-848-8elr.jsp?prod_id=10914

But, I have no idea if it offers non-blanking switching or what level of EDID management it delivers.
It is a deal with a $8,999 MSRP.

Yeah, I'm sticking with component video HD switching in my home for a few more years I guess.

Not to hijack (relevant to the original question), but when you say that the Crestron DM series is controllable via IP from any control system, how does that actually work? Is it using a QM-RMC or something similar? I recently dismissed the DM-MD6x6 in my search for a HDBaseT 6x6 Matrix Switcher because I didn't believe it would be controllable via general IP or RS232 commands (I use iRule). Currently, I'm leaning towards the Atlona AT-PRO3HD66M but that will actually cost me more than the Creston in this situation. I don't want to involve anything that relies on a Creston programmer because I would like the ability to make changes, etc., myself as I go on.
post #9 of 10
Personal preference in order:

1. DM
2. Leaf (who manufacture the C4 8x8)
3. HDC Modular
4. WyreStorm
post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLew View Post

Not to hijack (relevant to the original question), but when you say that the Crestron DM series is controllable via IP from any control system, how does that actually work? Is it using a QM-RMC or something similar? I recently dismissed the DM-MD6x6 in my search for a HDBaseT 6x6 Matrix Switcher because I didn't believe it would be controllable via general IP or RS232 commands (I use iRule). Currently, I'm leaning towards the Atlona AT-PRO3HD66M but that will actually cost me more than the Creston in this situation. I don't want to involve anything that relies on a Creston programmer because I would like the ability to make changes, etc., myself as I go on.
Crestron uses standard TCP/IP control for it's switches. As such, without the use of any external processor from Crestron you can control their switches directly via TCP/IP. I'm actually more on the Crestron side of the house with our company, but we have put together AMX modules that directly control the Crestron DM switchers. I believe the switching commands are very basic and similar to Extron. ie: "SWITCHVIDEO3TO7" or something along those lines. If you can write a module, then you can control the Crestron units I believe.
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