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Emotiva - Buyer Beware (a personal experience) - Page 2

post #31 of 63
WOW!

This is very disappointing. If I had read this thread before ordering my EMC-200 I would have gone another route.
I would post this on as many forums as possible, but before I did I would contact them once again and make request the full refund. mad.gif

They simply CANNOT keep your sub AND not give you a refund, especially DURING the warranty period.
They should compensate you with a full credit and $100 towards the purchase of a competitor's product.
post #32 of 63
Thanks for posting OP. Will make others think twice before going EMO.
post #33 of 63
A full credit seems reasonable to me after two years. That's not too dissimilar from other stores with extended warranties.

The modification and locking of your post does not sound reasonable.
post #34 of 63
A full credit is only reasonable if Emotiva still carries a product that would serve as a suitable replacement. It seems like Emotiva is getting out of the speaker business, so there is no replacement available. Therefore the credit is relatively worthless.

Since the item is still under warrantee a full refund is not unreasonable.
post #35 of 63
Let them give you an Amp in trade, buy a killer pre/pro and a new pair of subwoofers.

As a respectful suggestion, work out a deal, get over the screwing (yes, it sucks) and move forward.
post #36 of 63
I was looking through some of the old threads over there and noticed a few things. One is that there was mention back in 2011 of amp problems and secondly there was a post from Lonnie I believe that made mention that folks should contact him if they're experiencing problems with the Ultras. It was also stated there were only two reports of issues. This struck me as a bit strange if it was only two problems and I suspect the failure rate was substantially greater causing them to run through their stock of replacement amps in short order.

I would advocate for a full refund seeing how if Emotiva were to give you comparable value in an amp, their cost would be substantially less. Now, if they don't want the sub back, I would then contact AVS forum member Daveds50 who has successfully been repairing amps from ED and Epik at reasonable prices and quick turnaround times.
post #37 of 63
Thread Starter 
This is what Emotiva told the Better Business Bureau:

On January 03, 2014, the business provided the following information:
Emotiva strives to provide superior customer service. To that end, Emotiva hosts a blog where customers and customer service representative may discuss issues relating to Emotiva products. Additionally, on occasion, Emotiva representatives will correspond directly with customers in order to address questions or concerns a customer may have. For the protection of its customers and Emotiva, a privacy notice is included on Emotiva emails, which prohibits the emails from being posted to public forum. The privacy notice states "PRIVACY NOTICE: This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited." We have asked Mr. Brown to abide by the terms of the policy, yet he refuses to do so.

Still, Emotiva is taking all reasonable measures to resolve this matter. A timeline of relevant events follows:

October 3- Customer contacted Emotiva regarding a repair for his USUB12 subwoofer. We issued him an RMA number.

October 7- We received the amp board from the subwoofer in for repair.

October 15 through November 19- The Emotiva technician began warranty repair service for the unit. The technician located the issue and replaced most of the damaged parts. However, one part necessary for the repair was out of stock. The customer was contacted by our technician notifying him of the status on October 17th via phone call. Emotiva attempted many phone calls to the customer after this date. Emotiva did not hear anything from the customer.

December 9- The customer emailed us stating he had not heard from us and that his repair was taking too long.

December 18- Our lead technician emailed him back, apologizing that he had been out of the country on business, and let him know a necessary part was out of stock and this part had a long lead time. Emotiva offered him a full credit for the two year old subwoofer, or if he wanted to wait until the parts were in stock, Emotiva would complete the repair on his subwoofer and give him a store credit.

December 18- The customer replied saying he would like his subwoofer repaired.

December 23- Our lead technician called the customer to let him know the repair would take longer than a week, and told the customer that Emotiva would provide him with a credit if he no longer wanted to wait. We asked the customer to return our call to let us know how he wanted us to proceed. We did not receive a call back from the customer.

January 2- We received a post on our public forum from this customer outlining his experience in the events of his subwoofer repair. He did not contact our company first, or attempt to return our calls or emails. Rather, he posted confidential and private information that violates Emotiva's email privacy notice to our public forum without our consent. This material has seen been taken down. The customer was contacted with information with our policy and our attempted actions to resolve the issue. He did not contact us after this attempt, instead he posted again on our public forum with additional private information. After a third private message on our public forum and a phone call to the customer, Emotiva issued a full refund to the customer.

January 3- A refund check was issued to the customer.

This case has been resolved in the manner of a full refund being provided to the customer. The case could have been resolved sooner if the customer simply replied to Emotiva's phone messages and emails.


Emotiva has never attempted to contact me in any way, other than the email that was a response to my query on 12/18. I was actually told by the technician in October that it could not be repaired, so they did not work on anything 10/15-11/19. Emotiva has never attempted to call me until after I posted on their message boards so that is a complete and utter lie. Please take my story to heart before buying anything Emotiva.
post #38 of 63
So the lead technician is VP Lonnie?
post #39 of 63
Is it possible they don't have the right number on file? If they only tried to reach out to you via phone?
post #40 of 63
Why are they trying to call, when initial corespondance was via email? Anyway, if Emotiva couldn't get a hold of the customer with a phone number, why didn't they just email him? Just doesn't make sense...

Anyway, thanks for the update!

Btw- what's this crap about violating a privacy policy? Posting your experience about crappy CS is in violation, good to know! rolleyes.gif
Edited by Cvetan1 - 1/6/14 at 8:48am
post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Is it possible they don't have the right number on file? If they only tried to reach out to you via phone?

Whats weird is they supposedly only tried the phone for a period of time. You'd think email would be an internet based companies standard method. Or at least back up all those phone calls with one.

Another thing that stands out is that Emotivas write up indicates gtrmantb responding to an email (DEC 18) the same day he received it. This doesn't fit the pattern of the person they are not so subtlety trying to paint.

Speaking of not so subtle, the constant referral of his sub as "two years old" is so obviously trying to get the reader on their side. As in " even though the sub is two whole years old we did everything to make him happy because we're such good people"

Spare me. Is it in warranty or not? Yes, no, black, white. They dont want to warranty stuff that long? Don't include warranties that long.
post #42 of 63
Well, I guess we know how Emotiva feels about their customers.

Reading their response, it stinks to high heaven. Their "efforts" to contact the OP are almost all unverifiable. How convenient. Also they are acting like some Privacy Notice tacked onto their email is somehow legally binding. What BS. They just hope it intimidates their customers into not complaining publicly. Again, we see how Emotiva truly feels about their customers.

I also agree that the way they refer to his sub's age is pure sophistry. It doesn't matter how old it is if it is still under warranty.

For most of us, our AV gear is a major investment in time and money. Customer Service after the sale is a HUGE factor in deciding where to spend my money. I seriously considered Emotiva when looking to put together my system. They have had some tempting sale prices lately. When I called them last month to ask about their speakers and whether they had a center channel available they guy's answer was "No". That's it. No elaboration or explanation. I waited about 10 seconds to allow him to explain, but silence. So I asked if there would be a new model, or if there was a backorder and he said "No". Again no details. So I asked him if they were coming out with a new design or something. He said (and I am paraphrasing) "No, we are evaluating our place in the industry." What the hell does that mean?

Needless to say that phone call caused me to look elsewhere. (I got a Marantz 7008.)

I was considering adding one of their 5 channel amps to my system (my brother has had one for several years and loves it) but if this is what passes for service after the sale then I am looking elsewhere. The AV business is very competitive and there are no shortage of companies to choose from. In my opinion Emotiva is no longer one of them.

Emotiva had an opportunity to turn this around and show all of us watching (and the OP) that they care about their customers and in turn generate some goodwill that probably would have translated directly into sales. Now the opposite has happened. Sorry for the rant, but I have had some OUTSTANDING experiences with some great companies in the last few weeks (Ascend Acoustics and Standout Designs are two Great places that deserve your business. Wonderful people working at these places.) and this kind of behavior just burns me up.
post #43 of 63
It's all about perspective. Did the OP ever ask for a full refund? Did he verify the phone numbe they had?

I'm not taking sides btw. In general a manufacturer is required to fix the product or replace it. They also extend the warranty based on time in the shop (state based law). I do not think a money refund is usually offered.

Granted, with the awesome ID companies we deal with good CS is expected and part of why we deal with them.

I personally spent 6 months working with Denon to fix my receiver. In the end they sent me a new one. I was happy for it. Their communication was awesome, but I initiated all contact. I don't let things fester as I wait. I call and email at every step.
post #44 of 63
Thread Starter 
They had both my email and phone number. Lonnie replied to me on December 18 through email, about a credit or to wait one week for my amp. If you read my reply to that email you will see I said that I guess I would have to wait for the amp since a credit would do me no good. I received no reply after this. I waited over a week with no contact from Emotiva. They had my correct phone number because it was on the original order in 2011, and then again on the return back in October, and I also called them and was told the president would call me the next day back in October (which he never did), so I gave them the number then as well. I initiated all contact as well and was put off and ignored. Also they seemed to have found the correct number somewhere because when I posted on their message board about my situation the president did call me the next day to tell me how I was dragging this out by not replying to them. That was January 3. So somehow they found my correct number between October and January.
post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmantb View Post

They had both my email and phone number. Lonnie replied to me on December 18 through email, about a credit or to wait one week for my amp. If you read my reply to that email you will see I said that I guess I would have to wait for the amp since a credit would do me no good. I received no reply after this. I waited over a week with no contact from Emotiva. They had my correct phone number because it was on the original order in 2011, and then again on the return back in October, and I also called them and was told the president would call me the next day back in October (which he never did), so I gave them the number then as well. I initiated all contact as well and was put off and ignored. Also they seemed to have found the correct number somewhere because when I posted on their message board about my situation the president did call me the next day to tell me how I was dragging this out by not replying to them. That was January 3. So somehow they found my correct number between October and January.

IME corporate people often have this sort of trouble with service but have developed deflection skills....
post #46 of 63
Sounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmantb View Post

They had both my email and phone number. Lonnie replied to me on December 18 through email, about a credit or to wait one week for my amp. If you read my reply to that email you will see I said that I guess I would have to wait for the amp since a credit would do me no good. I received no reply after this. I waited over a week with no contact from Emotiva. They had my correct phone number because it was on the original order in 2011, and then again on the return back in October, and I also called them and was told the president would call me the next day back in October (which he never did), so I gave them the number then as well. I initiated all contact as well and was put off and ignored. Also they seemed to have found the correct number somewhere because when I posted on their message board about my situation the president did call me the next day to tell me how I was dragging this out by not replying to them. That was January 3. So somehow they found my correct number between October and January.

Sounds like you did all you could. I hate it when stuff does not work out smoothly. Glad you got a full money refund, relatively cheap learning experience for you. I hope your next purchase works out better! Maybe give SVS a shot.
post #47 of 63
Congratulations:

Cash that check - ASAP.

Emo really should learn how to keep its trap shut.
post #48 of 63
Sweet! I am glad you got your refund. Sheesh!
post #49 of 63
Man, I had the complete opposite happen to me. Great customer service. I bought a processor, 7020, on ebay and used it for 2 movies and now it won't power on. I called them and they are covering it under warranty so all it costs is shipping with their discount.
post #50 of 63

Glad to hear that you got your refund and allow me to say this has been a very good and educational thread. I have little doubt that had it been an amp that broke you would not have experienced this problem but since it was a subwoofer that they no longer make and no longer have parts to it became fiasco. Not that makes it right because it absolutely doesn't. They screwed up and personally I will not consider them in the future. So thanks for the detailed play by play. 

 

IMO you should be thankful you got to the full refund and not the repaired subwoofer because who knows the quality of the parts they would have had to use to fix it and if it ever broke again while under warranty you would have to start the whole process again. Better to have the money in hand and a chance to start fresh with a different company. My advice would be to look at SVS, PSA, Rythmik, Hsu and Outlaw. Have fun with looking for your new subwoofer, it's always fun to get something new. :cool:

post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Man, I had the complete opposite happen to me. Great customer service. I bought a processor, 7020, on ebay and used it for 2 movies and now it won't power on. I called them and they are covering it under warranty so all it costs is shipping with their discount.
Your situation is entirely different from the OP's. Emotiva's warranty is for five years from date of original purchase and is transferable. They state the following,
Quote:
Emotiva will, at its option, either: (i) repair the product, or (ii) replace the product with a new consumer product which is identical or reasonably equivalent to the product. Emotiva may provide you with a refund of the actual purchase price of the product in the event (i) Emotiva is unable to provide replacement and repair is not commercially practicable or cannot be timely made, or (ii) you agree to accept a refund in lieu of other remedies hereunder. When a product or part is repaired or replaced, any replacement item becomes your property and the replaced item becomes Emotiva’s property. When a refund is given, the product for which the refund is provided must be returned to Emotiva and becomes Emotiva’s property.
Your product was apparently repairable. The OP has an orphan that is not repairable and they don't have anything comparable that could be sent in its place. What's deplorable is the attempt by Lonnie to somehow forget to mention a full refund. Further obfuscation and fabrications were seen in Emotiva's response to the BBB which makes them look like the paragons of bend over backwards customer service while the OP comes off as somewhat of an idiot. Laufman's response, if genuinely written, indicates that he was lied to when asked for a summary of prior events.

Now, I see Emotiva in a bit of trouble and they've made a series of poorly thought out moves with what I feel to have serious negative financial repercussions.

The UMC-1 was a dud requiring significant programming upgrades by Indian programmers to a Chinese made product by a company that didn't appear to have much expertise in this area. Late to market and likely beset by cost overruns, this seems to me to not have been especially profitable.

The UMC-200 seems to have been better thought out but I don't see it as a cash cow.

The XMC went through at least two different iterations when it comes to the underlying correction engine and coupled with the very long product development time, would need significantly sustained sales to finally generate a profit. Increasing the price from what was originally proposed only works if folks are buying. But with a platform that requires a PC, market acceptance appears soft.

There's no money in CDPs as downloadables and streaming are rapidly making those niche products with no growth.

The subs, from reading past threads on their forum seem to have had amp problems such that Emotiva found themselves running through their inventory of spares. They were so ever quietly discontinued vanishing like a fart in the wind. It wouldn't surprise me if that comes out as a total loss once more people start opting for full refunds under the five year warranty.

The acquisition of Sherbourn looks like a total money loser as they clear out the remaining inventory at fire sale prices.

The 'we've got Bob Carver and goodbye Bob Carver' seems like another money put. The story I hear is that Bob was on board but put his foot down when Emotiva's plan was to have boards and other stuff made overseas, then shipped here for final assembly. Bob apparently wasn't too keen on a assembled in America logo. Besides, what would make anyone there think there's this big demand for tube based equipment?

Anyways that's the way I see it. They need a good business manager along with realistic market research and analysis.
post #52 of 63
This thread has made me glad that (1) we have so much better consumer protection here and (2) that I never bought any Emotiva gear.
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Your situation is entirely different from the OP's. Emotiva's warranty is for five years from date of original purchase and is transferable. They state the following,
Your product was apparently repairable. The OP has an orphan that is not repairable and they don't have anything comparable that could be sent in its place. What's deplorable is the attempt by Lonnie to somehow forget to mention a full refund. Further obfuscation and fabrications were seen in Emotiva's response to the BBB which makes them look like the paragons of bend over backwards customer service while the OP comes off as somewhat of an idiot. Laufman's response, if genuinely written, indicates that he was lied to when asked for a summary of prior events.

Now, I see Emotiva in a bit of trouble and they've made a series of poorly thought out moves with what I feel to have serious negative financial repercussions.

The UMC-1 was a dud requiring significant programming upgrades by Indian programmers to a Chinese made product by a company that didn't appear to have much expertise in this area. Late to market and likely beset by cost overruns, this seems to me to not have been especially profitable.

The UMC-200 seems to have been better thought out but I don't see it as a cash cow.

The XMC went through at least two different iterations when it comes to the underlying correction engine and coupled with the very long product development time, would need significantly sustained sales to finally generate a profit. Increasing the price from what was originally proposed only works if folks are buying. But with a platform that requires a PC, market acceptance appears soft.

There's no money in CDPs as downloadables and streaming are rapidly making those niche products with no growth.

The subs, from reading past threads on their forum seem to have had amp problems such that Emotiva found themselves running through their inventory of spares. They were so ever quietly discontinued vanishing like a fart in the wind. It wouldn't surprise me if that comes out as a total loss once more people start opting for full refunds under the five year warranty.

The acquisition of Sherbourn looks like a total money loser as they clear out the remaining inventory at fire sale prices.

The 'we've got Bob Carver and goodbye Bob Carver' seems like another money put. The story I hear is that Bob was on board but put his foot down when Emotiva's plan was to have boards and other stuff made overseas, then shipped here for final assembly. Bob apparently wasn't too keen on a assembled in America logo. Besides, what would make anyone there think there's this big demand for tube based equipment?

Anyways that's the way I see it. They need a good business manager along with realistic market research and analysis.

I agree, I owned the UMC-1 and it did not measure well in my room, the sherbourn products measure well for me.
post #54 of 63
When will companies learn that taking care of their customers quickly and respectfully would steer them clear of any negative publicity. Attention that costs FAR more than had they just resolved the issue in the first place? And then trying to lie and cover it up afterwards? Weasels.
post #55 of 63

I wonder if Emotiva keeps an eye on these forums to see what type of information is being discussed about their company and their products, I assume they do. If they don't they should because they might learn something on how they are being perceived in the market place and try and remedy any problems by dealing with their customers in an upright fashion rather than the underhanded way this seems to have gone down.

 

One thing nice about AVS, Emotiva can't randomly come in here and take down any thread they don't like as they do in their own forum. 

post #56 of 63
Arbitrarily tampering with posts or threads is a huge mistake for any forum site to make, whether it's Emotiva, ChaseHT, AVS or anyone else.

If a post contravenes the rules, remove it (and, ideally, replace it with an explanation as to why it was removed) and issue a warning or infraction. If a thread gets out of hand, lock it.

Other than that, don't touch.
post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Sounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmantb View Post

They had both my email and phone number. Lonnie replied to me on December 18 through email, about a credit or to wait one week for my amp. If you read my reply to that email you will see I said that I guess I would have to wait for the amp since a credit would do me no good. I received no reply after this. I waited over a week with no contact from Emotiva. They had my correct phone number because it was on the original order in 2011, and then again on the return back in October, and I also called them and was told the president would call me the next day back in October (which he never did), so I gave them the number then as well. I initiated all contact as well and was put off and ignored. Also they seemed to have found the correct number somewhere because when I posted on their message board about my situation the president did call me the next day to tell me how I was dragging this out by not replying to them. That was January 3. So somehow they found my correct number between October and January.

Sounds like you did all you could. I hate it when stuff does not work out smoothly. Glad you got a full money refund, relatively cheap learning experience for you. I hope your next purchase works out better! Maybe give SVS a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post

Congratulations:

Cash that check - ASAP.

Emo really should learn how to keep its trap shut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Sweet! I am glad you got your refund. Sheesh!

Emotiva says they sent a check, don't see where the OP has it....
post #58 of 63
Emotiva is a long-time forum sponsor, but hasn't participated here at AVS in years. Its official thread is a library. The lack of transparency by using its own heavily moderated (read: censored) forum could potentially smack of a company that is not completely honest with its current or potential customers. Do they have something to hide? Perhaps they just don't value AVS members or want to stand up to some legit heat every once in a while and have circled the wagons. That is not in their best interest.

As pointed out by Chu, Emotiva has bombed on many of its endeavors the last few years and is probably stretched too thin to properly keep its promises. Or, they simply choose not to. If it's the former, Emotiva should take ownership and just admit it while correcting the course. They would be forgiven as there are many happy camper customers that participate in this forum and they can bring good products to market.

I think many might agree that their reputation needs a little band-aid at this point and ignoring warranty claims is sign that there might be trouble. The "value" subwoofer field is littered with the carcasses of the likes of ED, AV3, and Epik and is not an easy market. Those companies also ignored warranties and didn't return calls from customers.
post #59 of 63

Good points ^^

post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater 
Good points
+1.
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