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$1250 Budget for 5.1 Speaker Set - Page 2

post #31 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

It is here with a review - click on measurements show - they have ground-plane, plus in-door polar response
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/71792-home-theater-direct-level-three-tower-review.html
I see those are the L3 towers, did I miss the bookshelves somewhere?

I did find this review of Ascend vs HTD: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2294-170SE-vs-HTD-Level-Three-Bookshelf

I found the HTD L3 review to be quite impressive in the context of use with modern AVRs that have automated system optimization facilities such as Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO. As long as a speaker's on-axis response is reasonably smooth, room/speaker mismatches which result in suboptimal response will be zeroed out by the AVR if people take the 5 minutes or less that it takes to run the AVR's optimizer. The non-fixable secondary properties of the speaker can then shine. These are controlled directivity and low nonlinear distortion.

Here are the relevant facts:

This is the response curve of a nicely extended, relatively smooth but possibly slightly colored speaker (In some listening environments)



The broad slight dip in the midrange and slight rise above 3 KHz are the sort of things that Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO excel at managing.

Here is the good stuff that can't be equalized into a speaker:



In particular I'm looking at the family of more-or-less parallel response curves for off-axis response. This is characteristic of a speaker that has more consistent timbre in various rooms over a wider range of room acoustics and off-axis reflections.

The basic design which is flat panel tweeter mounted at the base of a waveguide is something that leading and well-known waveguide enthusiasts have been talking about at least privately for decades. It is a good idea whose time may have come.

Anther well-known and attractively priced speaker that has this property is the Behringer B2031.

I'd like to hear the HTD's but that seems unlikely.
post #32 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I found the HTD L3 review to be quite impressive in the context of use with modern AVRs that have automated system optimization facilities such as Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO. As long as a speaker's on-axis response is reasonably smooth, room/speaker mismatches which result in suboptimal response will be zeroed out by the AVR if people take the 5 minutes or less that it takes to run the AVR's optimizer. The non-fixable secondary properties of the speaker can then shine. These are controlled directivity and low nonlinear distortion.

Anther well-known and attractively priced speaker that has this property is the Behringer B2031.

I'd like to hear the HTD's but that seems unlikely.

Overall, the Level Three Tower looks fine to me

I have owned the Level Three bookshelf, Level Two bookshelf and Flat Panel speaker,
they do make nice stuff.

What struck me about the Tower measurements, was the in room bass response.
post #33 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I found the HTD L3 review to be quite impressive in the context of use with modern AVRs that have automated system optimization facilities such as Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO. As long as a speaker's on-axis response is reasonably smooth, room/speaker mismatches which result in suboptimal response will be zeroed out by the AVR if people take the 5 minutes or less that it takes to run the AVR's optimizer. The non-fixable secondary properties of the speaker can then shine. These are controlled directivity and low nonlinear distortion.

Here are the relevant facts:

This is the response curve of a nicely extended, relatively smooth but possibly slightly colored speaker (In some listening environments)



The broad slight dip in the midrange and slight rise above 3 KHz are the sort of things that Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO excel at managing.

Here is the good stuff that can't be equalized into a speaker:



In particular I'm looking at the family of more-or-less parallel response curves for off-axis response. This is characteristic of a speaker that has more consistent timbre in various rooms over a wider range of room acoustics and off-axis reflections.

The basic design which is flat panel tweeter mounted at the base of a waveguide is something that leading and well-known waveguide enthusiasts have been talking about at least privately for decades. It is a good idea whose time may have come.

So that's interesting to note about the off-axis response for the HTD setup. Going back to the Ascend setup it also looks pretty good (though only measured to 45deg off axis)

 

I have a Denon 2113ci with the Audyssey MultiEQ-XT so I'll definitely be using that to setup the system. Right now I think I'm leaning toward the Ascend setup, as it gives me a bunch of range with the sub, either I can go LV12R and get an excellent sub, or go PB-1000 and get an excellent sub for a little less, or go STF-2 and get an excellent sub as well...

post #34 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post


Overall, the Level Three Tower looks fine to me

I have owned the Level Three bookshelf, Level Two bookshelf and Flat Panel speaker,
they do make nice stuff.

What struck me about the Tower measurements, was the in room bass response.

I'm going to keep HTD in mind, I think I really would prefer dipole rear surround speakers (in theory) but will have to get a system setup first before tweaking further. I don't think I can stretch for towers though. I'm still interested in the L3-bookshelves/center L2 surround as an option though...

post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

I'm going to keep HTD in mind, I think I really would prefer dipole rear surround speakers (in theory) but will have to get a system setup first before tweaking further. I don't think I can stretch for towers though. I'm still interested in the L3-bookshelves/center L2 surround as an option though...

They (HTD) would not be my first choice -

However, you do have some nice options

The options I have would go above your budget, or bring a compromise on the surrounds.
post #36 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post


They (HTD) would not be my first choice -

However, you do have some nice options

The options I have would go above your budget, or bring a compromise on the surrounds.

Fair enough!

 

Right now my order goes something like this:

1) Ascend/ERA (because I've heard the ERA system)

2) HSU

3) HTD

post #37 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Fair enough!
Right now my order goes something like this:
1) Ascend/ERA (because I've heard the ERA system)
2) HSU
3) HTD

Just for fun, this is a seriously good sounding speaker and use to list for $600 each,
and measures with in a +/- 1.25 db window. They can get louder, than your upstairs
neighbors would desire. Also, have good, tight and controlled solid bass. They are
not a wimp and can handle lots of power >> and will trump some so-called bigger
speakers - also they are a gem with music. One can be used as a center channel

Just for fun exploration - Boston E60
http://www.amazon.com/Boston-Acoustics-E60-Performance-Bookshelf/dp/B001H9O1CQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389282294&sr=8-1&keywords=boston+e60

HT Labs
The E60's listening-window response measures +1.25/–0.97 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz.
The –3-dB point is at 65 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 53 Hz. Impedance reaches a
minimum of 4.36 ohms at 203 Hz and a phase angle of –58.73 degrees at 111 Hz.

Image
http://i.seimg.net/images/309923/big/combo-pair-e60-black_efl.jpg
Edited by zieglj01 - 1/9/14 at 8:35am
post #38 of 75
Thread Starter 

So it looks like I'm going with the Ascend system (CMT-170s for L/R, CMT-340 for Center, HTM-200 for Rear L/R) I guess now I get to figure out what subwoofer I should choose.

 

In that realm, my options are:

Rhythmik LV12R

SVS PB1000.

HSU VTF-2

HSU STF-2.

 

From most expensive to least expensive. Any thoughts there, or should I take that over to the Subwoofer forum?

post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post
 

So it looks like I'm going with the Ascend system (CMT-170s for L/R, CMT-340 for Center, HTM-200 for Rear L/R) I guess now I get to figure out what subwoofer I should choose.

 

In that realm, my options are:

Rhythmik LV12R

SVS PB1000.

HSU VTF-2

HSU STF-2.

 

From most expensive to least expensive. Any thoughts there, or should I take that over to the Subwoofer forum?

Great choice on the speakers.  I feel as though the Ascend and HSU would have been your two best options.  All the subs you listed are solid choices for under $600.  I think you need to swap the vtf2 and pb1000 as far as order of pricing goes, its about 600 shipped.  The STF-2 is quite a step down in performance, and I feel the other 3 are all pretty close.  

 

Don't forget to check dimensions as well to make sure everything will work in your room.

post #40 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

Great choice on the speakers.  I feel as though the Ascend and HSU would have been your two best options.  All the subs you listed are solid choices for under $600.  I think you need to swap the vtf2 and pb1000 as far as order of pricing goes, its about 600 shipped.  The STF-2 is quite a step down in performance, and I feel the other 3 are all pretty close.  

 

Don't forget to check dimensions as well to make sure everything will work in your room.

Yeah those Ascends really intrigue me. I'm pretty psyched to put the order in.

 

I think I'm leaning toward the VTF-1 MK2 as my primary sub. I (in theory) really like the servo/feedback control of the LV12R, but the package is $100 more out the door than the Ascend+HSU setup. ($1350 vs $1250 including shipping). Plus its physically a little smaller which I think will be nice. Any reason to believe the LV12R is worth $100 over the VTF1?

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

So it looks like I'm going with the Ascend system (CMT-170s for L/R, CMT-340 for Center, HTM-200 for Rear L/R) I guess now I get to figure out what subwoofer I should choose.

In that realm, my options are:
Rhythmik LV12R
SVS PB1000.
HSU VTF-2
HSU STF-2.

From most expensive to least expensive. Any thoughts there, or should I take that over to the Subwoofer forum?
Well done! The Ascends are a great choice! wink.gifsmile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Yeah those Ascends really intrigue me. I'm pretty psyched to put the order in.

I think I'm leaning toward the VTF-1 MK2 as my primary sub. I (in theory) really like the servo/feedback control of the LV12R, but the package is $100 more out the door than the Ascend+HSU setup. ($1350 vs $1250 including shipping). Plus its physically a little smaller which I think will be nice. Any reason to believe the LV12R is worth $100 over the VTF1?
The LV12R is a clear step up over the VTF-1 MK2 and others listed above... 12" v's 10" woofer; 300Wrms v's 200Wrms amp; deeper LF extension; DirectServo control; adjustability. Well worth the additional $100 (IMO) and you'll quickly forget about the extra cost. smile.gif

Here's what another member had to say recently about his new CBM-170 SE / Rythmik LV12R setup.
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post


Well done! The Ascends are a great choice! wink.gifsmile.gif
The LV12R is a clear step up over the VTF-1 MK2 and others listed above... 12" v's 10" woofer; 300Wrms v's 200Wrms amp; deeper LF extension; DirectServo control; adjustability. Well worth the additional $100 (IMO) and you'll quickly forget about the extra cost. smile.gif

Here's what another member had to say recently about his new CBM-170 SE / Rythmik LV12R setup.

I agree, the Rythmik is probably a clear step or two up from the VTF1.....the VTF2 would be a closer comparison.

post #43 of 75
The Rythmik LV12R is considered the best sub for under $600 by many professional publications. It also gets rave reviews here on AVS.
post #44 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post


Well done! The Ascends are a great choice! wink.gifsmile.gif
The LV12R is a clear step up over the VTF-1 MK2 and others listed above... 12" v's 10" woofer; 300Wrms v's 200Wrms amp; deeper LF extension; DirectServo control; adjustability. Well worth the additional $100 (IMO) and you'll quickly forget about the extra cost. smile.gif

Here's what another member had to say recently about his new CBM-170 SE / Rythmik LV12R setup.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

I agree, the Rythmik is probably a clear step or two up from the VTF1.....the VTF2 would be a closer comparison.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

The Rythmik LV12R is considered the best sub for under $600 by many professional publications. It also gets rave reviews here on AVS.

 

Excellent! Not that I needed much convincing, just some affirmation that the LV12R was the way to go. I'll pick up that package and report back!

post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

The Rythmik LV12R is considered the best sub for under $600 by many professional publications.

What publications are those? Can you name one?
post #46 of 75
Thread Starter 

Ascend plus Rhytmik setup on the way! I'm looking forward to this.

 

Now I need speaker stands... and I've blown my budget a bit. Oh well!

post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Ascend plus Rhytmik setup on the way! I'm looking forward to this.

Now I need speaker stands... and I've blown my budget a bit. Oh well!

Enjoy! with a little effort you can build your own stands in a few hours time to hold you over until you can afford some.
post #48 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark62 View Post


Enjoy! with a little effort you can build your own stands in a few hours time to hold you over until you can afford some.

Oh I can afford some, not stupid enough to blow all of my actual money on home theater equipment. The question really is: if I build some myself, will I actually get it done before the speakers arrive?

 

That being said, care to recommend any speaker stands? Or recommended DIY designs?

post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Oh I can afford some, not stupid enough to blow all of my actual money on home theater equipment. The question really is: if I build some myself, will I actually get it done before the speakers arrive?

That being said, care to recommend any speaker stands? Or recommended DIY designs?

if you have the money, just buy stands, unless you like building things.

i prefer metal stands to wood.


if you were going to build them all you need is some 2x4's and some hardwood or plywood, screws and paint. im using two for my surrounds now that are 4' tall.

just T the 2x4's for the height that you want. i made a 12"x 12" bottom base and a 6"x 6" platform for the speaker and spray painted flat black. they dont look half bad. eek.gif


also i use Blu-Tack to secure the speaker to the stand and stand to the floor.

maybe something like this, just make sure you get the right height so the tweeters are ear level.

http://www.parts-express.com/sanus-sf30b-foundations-30-steel-speaker-stand-pair-black--240-804

but you can probably find cheaper
post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Ascend plus Rhytmik setup on the way! I'm looking forward to this.
Awesome! I just love it when a plan comes together. When you get all set up, be sure to post your impressions back here or in the Ascend owners thread. Again, congratulations and great decision! smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Now I need speaker stands... and I've blown my budget a bit. Oh well!
Did you spot the Ascend speaker stands? They're currently out of stock, but you could knock up something temporary for the meantime.

Edit: Crap! Just noticed that those ^ stands are discontinued. The Sanus ones linked above look pretty good.
.
Edited by GIEGAR - 1/13/14 at 10:11pm
post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

The Rythmik LV12R is considered the best sub for under $600 by many professional publications.

What publications are those? Can you name one?

I can. Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer Review
post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I can. Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer Review

Lol, that is a real stretch to call a pro review.
post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I can. Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer Review

Lol, that is a real stretch to call a pro review.

Sure, because it suits your agenda now to have a narrow personal definition of what constitutes a pro review. rolleyes.gif
post #54 of 75
Was the reviewer paid to do that review? Also I am not seeing any meaningful measurements in that review. There sure is a whole lot of hyperbole and blurb-worthy statements though. Those reviews are the kind that give the phrase 'audio reviews' a bad name.
post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Was the reviewer paid to do that review? Also I am not seeing any meaningful measurements in that review. There sure is a whole lot of hyperbole and blurb-worthy statements though. Those reviews are the kind that give the phrase 'audio reviews' a bad name.


Ops short list of subs was the LV12R, VTF2, and PB1000.  All are good subs, and I would say he made a solid choice.  The sub is ordered, lets await the ops impressions of his new setup, which I bet will sound amazing for him.

post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Was the reviewer paid to do that review?
I presume HTS pay their STAFF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Also I am not seeing any meaningful measurements in that review. There sure is a whole lot of hyperbole and blurb-worthy statements though. Those reviews are the kind that give the phrase 'audio reviews' a bad name.
How ironic that you mention hyperbole. Pretty transparent what you're trying to do here...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Ops short list of subs was the LV12R, VTF2, and PB1000.  All are good subs, and I would say he made a solid choice.  The sub is ordered, lets await the ops impressions of his new setup, which I bet will sound amazing for him.
Good call Bear.
post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I presume HTS pay their STAFF.
I will be gob-smacked if anyone paid for those reviews. If you want to take them seriously as a valuable resource of information, you are free to do so.
post #58 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 


Ops short list of subs was the LV12R, VTF2, and PB1000.  All are good subs, and I would say he made a solid choice.  The sub is ordered, lets await the ops impressions of his new setup, which I bet will sound amazing for him.

Yeah I'm super freaking excited to get these things. Only problem is the damn sub was backordered! It's apparently on a container ship but the very nice representative at Ascend can only tell me "end of January" for when the sub will arrive. I asked for a free upgrade but no response...

 

Speakers get here Wednesday. I've still got to figure out if I build my own speaker stands. I'll likely put together some cheap wood ones for now while I figure out if I want to build more permanent ones out of metal...


Edited by CalibratedDuctT - 1/20/14 at 6:46pm
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Yeah I'm super freaking excited to get these things. Only problem is the damn sub was backordered! It's apparently on a container ship but the very nice representative at Ascend can only tell me "end of January" for when the sub will arrive. I asked for a free upgrade but no response...

Speakers get here Wednesday. I've still got to figure out if I build my own speaker stands. I'll likely put together some cheap wood ones for now while I figure out if I want to build more permanent ones out of metal...

You could just find a couple of cheap timber stools like this to tide you over. Saw a bit off the legs if necessary to get the tweeters to seated ear level. Put 'em on a couple of old towels to dampen any vibrations. Done!
post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalibratedDuctT View Post

Any reason you'd allocate that much to the sub? I have roommates above me so I don't know if i can push the sub that far... I know I mentioned HT as a primary driver, but I'm not that much of a bass head.

PB-12 NSD is now on sale for $599 since the new version came out, FYI

edit: just saw you ordered the rythmik already. By all accounts, it is a great sub and you won't regret. Post your impressions later of your setup!
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