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Dual SVS PB-2000s to replace dual ChaseHT SS-18.1s. Worth it? - Page 3

post #61 of 101
Well, turn them up or run a house curve if it starts sounding out of balance. Like I said, you just need more spl from the subs so see if you can do it without clipping or bottoming, if you can you don't need anything. You really start to feel pressure and hair standing effects at 110 dBs and above. This is why 5 star bass movies are awesome because they do this with a flat calibration of course. One can make all movies do this with a hot LFE.
post #62 of 101
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It would essentially be another sub in my room, and I really don't want to have more than two boxes. smile.gif

That’s why I was thinking you would most likely appreciate going cylinder in buying that third sub. biggrin.gif
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eljay. OK, so it looks like these are the steps I will take:
1. Test to rule out negative interaction between the two subs.
2. Look for possible locations in room and, if available, try different placement options.
3. Get a better amp.
4. Get miniDSP.

Thanks to everyone for your input on this issue. Much appreciated. cool.gifsmile.gif

Seriously though.. Sounds like a plan to me. I brought up swapping drivers but using your two enclosures as a next step if needed. The cost would be minimal (compared) if you wanted to stay with the same look and design. For that matter, you could always change the look if you wanted with veneer or a variety of other options.
post #63 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater 
Well, turn them up or run a house curve if it starts sounding out of balance.
Will do! cool.gif
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Originally Posted by steve nn 
That’s why I was thinking you would most likely appreciate going cylinder in buying that third sub. biggrin.gif
Of course! Why didn't I think of that?! rolleyes.gif

wink.gifbiggrin.gif
Quote:
Seriously though.. Sounds like a plan to me. I brought up swapping drivers but using your two enclosures as a next step if needed. The cost would be minimal (compared) if you wanted to stay with the same look and design.
And I'm taking that suggestion seriously. It would be the last step, but I checked out the price on the UXL-18 and it seems reasonable...and do-able.
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For that matter, you could always change the look if you wanted with veneer or a variety of other options.
Would that increase extension or slam? wink.gif
post #64 of 101
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And I'm taking that suggestion seriously. It would be the last step, but I checked out the price on the UXL-18 and it seems reasonable...and do-able.

That’s great if it comes to that, I’ll not go on. cool.gif
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Would that increase extension or slam?

well uh.. of course it would wink.gif It would have to be veneer though.
post #65 of 101
Thread Starter 
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That’s great if it comes to that, I’ll not go on. cool.gif
Promises, promises. tongue.gif
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well uh.. of course it would wink.gif It would have to be veneer though.
Veneer. Got it. I'd hate to lose out because I went with some other option... biggrin.gif
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/9/14 at 10:15am
post #66 of 101
If turning them up clips or bottoms then switching out 18's is your best bet for sure. Are the UXL's available? That would be like adding two more subs when you have reached the limits of the 18.1's. Have you modeled and UXL-18 in the cht cabinets?
post #67 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Are the UXL's available?
Not sure. But it doesn't say on their website that they're out of stock.
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Have you modeled and UXL-18 in the cht cabinets?
Nope. I didn't know I had to, and I have no idea how to.
post #68 of 101
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Nope. I didn't know I had to, and I have no idea how to.

I will do it latter for you since I’m heading out the door in a few. I have a feeling MK will be on it for you though.
post #69 of 101
Thread Starter 
I appreciate the offer, but you do realize I haven't said that I actually am replacing the drivers, yes? I mean, I'm all for getting others to do the work for me...but not unnecessarily! wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Anyway, if you do do the modelling, thank you. smile.gif
post #70 of 101
^^^ One of these days eljay tongue.gifmodel UXL biggrin.gif
post #71 of 101
What size box? the 20x20x20 or the 20x22x22?

Here is UXL vs CHT with 5 hz x-max reached. using 20 cubed.


Edited by MKtheater - 1/9/14 at 10:42am
post #72 of 101
Thread Starter 
My buddy, f1Nels - the guy with two CS-18.1s in a 2,025 cu.ft. room with killer gain - is following this thread. Later this month, he's moving into a new house in which the finished basement is one large room. The concern is that he won't get the kind of gain and overall response he currently gets. (Yes, tears were shed over this possibility. wink.gif )

He likes the idea of a driver swap, especially if it looks like he'll need one, and he suggested that maybe we should do a bulk buy of four of the Ultimax drivers on PE.

This sounds good to me, and I like the fact that the Dayton would now be pushing ~950W into those 4-ohm drivers. (No need to swap amps...maybe?)

So, for now, I guess I'll start with placement, run the subs a bit hotter, and consider miniDSP. Meanwhile, I'll wait to hear what the status is on his subs and, depending on the outcome, go with new drivers.

Oh, and I might even try my hand at modelling using WinISD. eek.gif
post #73 of 101
Thanks for doing that MK. Looks like they may have a bit more output. Like eljay mentioned the CHTs are killer in my basement, but we are moving so I'll be losing my current HT room. Imagine losing your room MK? That's how I feel. We'll see how the future basement measures then take it from there. By the way, your SHO10s are still beltin' out the movies.
post #74 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Thanks for doing that MK.
+1. Thanks. smile.gif

Oh, and yes, it's 20" cubed.
post #75 of 101
eljaycnauk, do you get any tactile feel or explosion and crash scenes do not have impact. Your drivers are down firing. That design is best to decrease subwoofer localization. It sounds like the sub gain may be a bit to high. Also, people have reported better results calibrating the sub as one unit and not two separate subwoofers. I know room aesthetics are important but, you could try one sub in a front corner and one in the back of the room on the opposite side. It looks like your room is pretty large and something could be moved around. I am in a 1300 sq ft room and know the problem about room gain. I am like you and don't want to add more subs. Chest slam is not a problem in my room. Tactile feel is ok, but could be more. I am not sure how far I am willing to chase that aspect. Sometimes I think the tactile response is better upstairs than down in the lower level, lol. I had a cylinder SVS but the 12 in. drive is no match against an 18 in. driver in my SS sub.
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1nels View Post

Thanks for doing that MK. Looks like they may have a bit more output. Like eljay mentioned the CHTs are killer in my basement, but we are moving so I'll be losing my current HT room. Imagine losing your room MK? That's how I feel. We'll see how the future basement measures then take it from there. By the way, your SHO10s are still beltin' out the movies.

No problem, that is a good amount of more low end to gain from just swapping out drivers which would be cheaper than two more CHT subs and save lots of space. The SHO's are very nice speakers and they are yours, not mine wink.gif
post #77 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
eljaycnauk, do you get any tactile feel or explosion and crash scenes do not have impact.
Yes, but I keep thinking I should be getting more. I've gather that two factors are to blame: A large room, and a relatively low volume (-18dB to -14dB). Dynamic EQ has helped somewhat with the latter.
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It sounds like the sub gain may be a bit to high.
Dunno, but both the PB12-NSD and my current subs were "localize-able" when placed in the corner, even after calibration and with a crossover as low as 60Hz.
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I know room aesthetics are important but, you could try one sub in a front corner and one in the back of the room on the opposite side.
I realize that might help, but it's really a no-go. The max placement range is as follows:

post #78 of 101
BTW, that graph with eljay's response shows a rise after 10hz which is most likely the noise floor with such a low sweep. 100 dBs sweeps are perfect for response evaluations.
post #79 of 101
Good point on localization, one reason I love to spread out the bass is so you have no idea where it is coming from no matter where you are in the theater.
post #80 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What size box? the 20x20x20 or the 20x22x22?

Here is UXL vs CHT with 5 hz x-max reached. using 20 cubed.


Hey MK, how much juice are you feeding to the UXL? (500) As you know 1500-2000 would be just fine.
post #81 of 101
It depends on where you want the hit x-max in that size box, 1145 watts hits x-max at 5 hz, 1775 watts at 10hz. It all depends on how low you want to go with them. If you are using UXL's, low should be a goal!
post #82 of 101
Quote:
He likes the idea of a driver swap, especially if it looks like he'll need one, and he suggested that maybe we should do a bulk buy of four of the Ultimax drivers on PE.

I mentioned that driver in post 41 but they’re out at this time. That would be no problem for you considering you don’t know yet. I was wondering with you being in Canada that the extra cost in the UXL might be offset in shipping since the UXL comes from Mach in Canada and is (some would argue) the better driver albeit more power hungry. Here is something I grabbed over in another post though.

post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It depends on where you want the hit x-max in that size box, 1145 watts hits x-max at 5 hz, 1775 watts at 10hz. It all depends on how low you want to go with them. If you are using UXL's, low should be a goal!

Ok thanks, I agree. Eljay would have no problem at all considering his listening habits/MV but you don't want to put your drivers at risk. I thought they would take more in 4cf.
post #84 of 101
That was 4.5 cubic foot box. Hell, the perfect roll off response for the UXL is a tiny box and you could use lots of power then! Still, he would gain 10 dBs at 10hz which would make some interesting fun! Eljay needs to run a higher sweep to see what 10hz really looks like and how far down he is to see what the UXL's might do.
post #85 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That was 4.5 cubic foot box. Hell, the perfect roll off response for the UXL is a tiny box and you could use lots of power then! Still, he would gain 10 dBs at 10hz which would make some interesting fun! Eljay needs to run a higher sweep to see what 10hz really looks like and how far down he is to see what the UXL's might do.

I hear you. The SDX is like that also. There really is nothing better than sealed (imo) if done correctly. Yeah it takes more drivers (better drivers are better) and power, and a guy can’t forget dsp, but they really do the job and do it well. The two 18”s I have are what the yellow line represents minus 1dB. I coupled mine with the BASSIS and found no fault what-so-ever. I’m continually tempted to run them again, but the situation I’m in now warrants against it. I'm flat down to 13ish with going the vented PR route keeping the enclosure on the smaller side. In my mind eljay would notice a big discrepancy between the two options as you mention though.
post #86 of 101
I am using the Bassis as well, trying to anyways. Is it me or does it make you feel like you turned up the bass 10 dBs!
post #87 of 101
Before you replace subs give this setup approach a shot.

http://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/

Main speakers set to Large with crossover at 160 hz with extra bass set. (Mains plus subwoofer). You may find additional slam when you get the bass management out of the way and you add bass to the room. It is a zero cost option to try before you experiment with more subs. I was not a believer but this approach has worked very well for me in a large open space.
post #88 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am using the Bassis as well, trying to anyways. Is it me or does it make you feel like you turned up the bass 10 dBs!

LOL, well it does turn the bass up in the lower freqs 10dB. Seems kind of odd to try to replicate vented with sealed, but then it’s actually the line we’re trying to replicate and then some instead of the falloff at ??whatever. I forgot you also have the BASSIS though.
post #89 of 101
Here is my response

post #90 of 101
Sweet extension. But it looks like serious room ringing from 20Hz up? confused.gif I thought your room was treated with bass traps. confused.gif

What am I not reading correctly?

(i know you're onto this stuff)
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