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Would something like this bypass any HDMI compatibility issues between my TV and AVR? (4x2 Matrix...

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=6416&seq=1&format=2#description

4x2 Matrix HDMI® Powered Mini Switch w/ Remote


Would such a switch/splitter allow me to connect four HDMI devices and then send the video directly the to TV via output A and the audio directly to the AVR via output B without encountering the issues I currently am using my Yamaha AVR as a 4x1 switch hooked up to my new Samsung Plasma TV?

The issue that is occurring between the AVR and Plasma TV is that once every few days when I turn on all my devices I get no picture on the TV from any of the 4 HDMI sources being fed through the AVR and the only way to resolve this issue that I've found is to unplug the HDMI cable from the TV, unplug one of the sources from the AVR, plug that source directly into the TV (which restores the picture) and then put everything back the way it was before (and which point everything is normal again for a few days). I had a Panasonic Plasma TV before with the same setup including the AVR and 4 HDMI sources and had zero issues then... so, I can only conclude this is an HDMI compatibility issue between the AVR and new TV (or the less likely possibility that the AVR is developing problems at the same time I got the new TV).

One more thing to mention is that the AVR turns off more slowly displaying "main off, power off" before the issue occurs (meaning if I turn it off on Tuesday night with that message when I turn it on the next time, say Wednesday morning the issue occurs). Normally, it turns off instantly with no message displayed.
post #2 of 24
No. This sounds like an interface issue between the AVR programming and the TV programming. So, make sure you have the latest firmware in both units.

Basically in situations like this it is both and neither a problem with the TV or the receiver. It's just that the AVR's programming is likely having issues with the TV's EDID. Change out either component and the problem likely goes away. That's why you didn't have a problem with the old TV.

Before we go through troubleshooting (although there isn't a great chance of fixing this without a firmware update), what is the length and type of HDMI cable between the AVR and the TV? If it is not a high speed cable, that could also be a potential cause.

Troubleshooting:

1) Does everything work when directly connected (bypassing the AVR) to the TV using the same cable that is between the AVR and the TV?

2) If yes, then disable all HDMI options (such as CEC) in both the TV and the AVR. We are trying to get the firmware to respond differently by disabling HDMI options.

3) If none of that works, try calling the AVR manufacturer. It's likely their firmware that can't something that is new (or used differently) with the EDID from the TV.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

No. This sounds like an interface issue between the AVR programming and the TV programming. So, make sure you have the latest firmware in both units.

Basically in situations like this it is both and neither a problem with the TV or the receiver. It's just that the AVR's programming is likely having issues with the TV's EDID. Change out either component and the problem likely goes away. That's why you didn't have a problem with the old TV.

Before we go through troubleshooting (although there isn't a great chance of fixing this without a firmware update), what is the length and type of HDMI cable between the AVR and the TV? If it is not a high speed cable, that could also be a potential cause.

Troubleshooting:

1) Does everything work when directly connected (bypassing the AVR) to the TV using the same cable that is between the AVR and the TV?

2) If yes, then disable all HDMI options (such as CEC) in both the TV and the AVR. We are trying to get the firmware to respond differently by disabling HDMI options.

3) If none of that works, try calling the AVR manufacturer. It's likely their firmware that can't something that is new (or used differently) with the EDID from the TV.

why wouldn't a 4x2 matrix switch bypass the issue altogether? (there would be no direct link between the AVR and TV, right?)
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'm using a 15 ft redmere high speed cable between the AVR and TV

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9891&seq=1&format=2
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

why wouldn't a 4x2 matrix switch bypass the issue altogether? (there would be no direct link between the AVR and TV, right?)

I don't think your AVR will pickup the ARC signal without sending video. In other words, the primary purpose of the HDMI link is to send audio and video to your TV. Since you would then bypass the primary purpose, the secondary purpose (returning ARC) wouldn't occur. It would depend upon the AVR's programming but I don't think it would work.

So there still would be a direct link since you want to use ARC, right?
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have no desire to use arc. The matrix switch is only there so I can avoid using the HDMI pass through on the avr.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hope that clarified things
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have no desire to use arc. The matrix switch is only there so I can avoid using the HDMI pass through on the avr.

OK, that will work but then you'll be limited to stereo (due to lowest common denominator) unless you use an EDID changing switcher to force multichannel output.

Also remember to account for how you are going to change sources (a universal remote will help).

Sorry about the ARC reference - I got two threads combined in my head.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

OK, that will work but then you'll be limited to stereo (due to lowest common denominator) unless you use an EDID changing switcher to force multichannel output.

Also remember to account for how you are going to change sources (a universal remote will help).

Sorry about the ARC reference - I got two threads combined in my head.

are you saying this matrix switch doesn't support multi-channel audio? because all my source devices and AVR do (and I won't be using my TV speakers)

can you elaborate? I think you might be saying that since the TV only supports 2.0 audio, that will somehow keep the other output on the matrix switcher from outputting 5.1/7.1 audio?
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

are you saying this matrix switch doesn't support multi-channel audio? because all my source devices and AVR do (and I won't be using my TV speakers)

can you elaborate? I think you might be saying that since the TV only supports 2.0 audio, that will somehow keep the other output on the matrix switcher from outputting 5.1/7.1 audio?

Lookup "lowest common denominator" either in this forum on Google (add "EDID" on the Google search). Basically what it means if you have two sinks (destination devices) and two sources connected over a matrix switch, then both sources will see the EDID that the matrix switcher sends to the source. That EDID is supposed to be based on the lowest common denominator, which means the sources can only send out a single compatible with *all* connected sinks. So if you have a stereo TV and a multichannel audio AVR then only stereo can be sent since the TV could not handle the multichannel signal.

Remember you can only have one audio stream and one video stream at any time over an HDMI connection. So, if you need both stereo and multichannel at the same time, that isn't going to happen with HDMI.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Is it possible to send video only to the tv and audio only to the receiver?
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
If a matrix switch is not the right device for my problem, is there another device I should be looking for?
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Is it possible to send video only to the tv and audio only to the receiver?

No, audio and video are in one bitstream. It isn't analog where they come down separate wires.
post #14 of 24
What you've discussed above is a Band-Aid for an AVR that isn't compatible. So the easiest (but not cheapest) method is to get a different AVR.

If you are content to not have any audio coming from the TV, then a matrix switcher with the ability to modify the EDID would work. Again, you'll get no audio from the TV and likely briefly see a message about an incompatible signal on the TV each time to switch inputs. But then you would have a picture on the TV and audio coming from the AVR (only).

Of course you also have to control both the AVR and the matrix switching.

Here's an example (I couldn't find anything on the Monoprice site):
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html
Edited by alk3997 - 1/13/14 at 5:11pm
post #15 of 24
You have got to be just flat in love with an old AVR to use this thing.

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html

Accessories4less is a factory authorized reseller for factory refurbished products.

I know some are scared of the word refurbished, I have used them a few times with great savings.
post #16 of 24
PlasmaP..., I would go back to your first post and maybe understand more about your observation about the problem occurring when your receiver turns off in a certain fashion. Is this readily produceable or understandable as to why? Next, how are you shutting things down as that message looks "funny" as a complete power down of the receiver as in not going into standby mode, are you expecting it to go into "standby" or are you indeed totally shutting the unit down. Further, what yamaha are you using? Since it works most of the time, maybe a bit more "investigation" might get you to "all the time" without doing anything equipment wise with your setup. Maybe more of a receiver operation / setup than an hdmi issue... maybe.
post #17 of 24
PlasmaPZ80U

Have you ensured HDMI CEC Control is disabled on your New TV?

Was the RedMere cable in the system with your previous Display?

Which AVR are you currently using?

Phil17108

Be careful with budget AVR’s (new or old) not all of them pass a clean signal via HDMI (Esp. where they have an OSD overlay) – use a 1:1 test pattern to confirm any AVR in your system is not messing with the video signal passing over HDMI.

Many of our customers for the HDMXA71 have Pre/Pro combinations which lack any HDMI Inputs – others have even more exotic rigs where our switch costs less than the remote for most of the connected devices, https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151804857945816&set=a.10150166544850816.323278.342819045815&type=1&stream_ref=10 eek.gif

Joe
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post

You have got to be just flat in love with an old AVR to use this thing.

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html

Accessories4less is a factory authorized reseller for factory refurbished products.

I know some are scared of the word refurbished, I have used them a few times with great savings.

Actually, I was simply looking for a cheap solution to this problem (like the $40 matrix switch I mentioned in the first post).

Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

PlasmaP..., I would go back to your first post and maybe understand more about your observation about the problem occurring when your receiver turns off in a certain fashion. Is this readily produceable or understandable as to why? Next, how are you shutting things down as that message looks "funny" as a complete power down of the receiver as in not going into standby mode, are you expecting it to go into "standby" or are you indeed totally shutting the unit down. Further, what yamaha are you using? Since it works most of the time, maybe a bit more "investigation" might get you to "all the time" without doing anything equipment wise with your setup. Maybe more of a receiver operation / setup than an hdmi issue... maybe.

It's possible this is a receiver setup/operation issue. I have been trying the following and so far this issue hasn't occurred (though it's only been two days so the issue might come back soon): I removed the 15' Redmere HDMI cables for my setup and swapped them with passive, regular high speed ones (6' length). I also changed the order in which I turn on and turn off devices. I now turn the receiver off first and then the sources and finally the TV and turn the TV on first then the sources and finally the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

PlasmaPZ80U

Have you ensured HDMI CEC Control is disabled on your New TV?

Was the RedMere cable in the system with your previous Display?

Which AVR are you currently using?

Phil17108

Be careful with budget AVR’s (new or old) not all of them pass a clean signal via HDMI (Esp. where they have an OSD overlay) – use a 1:1 test pattern to confirm any AVR in your system is not messing with the video signal passing over HDMI.

Many of our customers for the HDMXA71 have Pre/Pro combinations which lack any HDMI Inputs – others have even more exotic rigs where our switch costs less than the remote for most of the connected devices, https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151804857945816&set=a.10150166544850816.323278.342819045815&type=1&stream_ref=10 eek.gif

Joe

The Samsung PN51F5300 I have doesn't have HDMI-CEC (Anynet + or whatever Samsung calls it). The Receiver (Yamaha HTR-3066/RX-V375, part of the YHT-399UBL HTiB) does have it but it's turned off. Some of the sources also have HDMI-CEC (like the PS3 and PS4) but again, it's off on all devices. My receiver does not alter the video signal in any way.
post #19 of 24
'Actually, I was simply looking for a cheap solution to this problem (like the $40 matrix switch I mentioned in the first post).' - I guess the simple answer then is no!

If the systems stays stable I guess you can try re-installing the Active cable and see if that upsets things again.

Joe
post #20 of 24
Plasmap... thanks for the extra info. I think you are helping yourself out by first provide the equipment details... now people here can know exactly what you are interconnecting.... and secondly, the sequence of powering up is described and more "in-line" with "hdmi strategy" especially in powering up the sink (display) first. Hopefully this will help you out. Having said that, you didn't really indicate whether you are powering off with a remote for each equipment (likely placing it in standby) AND / OR totally cutting power to the equipment (probably causing the equipment to basically go back to square one on power up). It appears more likely that you are using a remote but just want to be sure.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
remote putting devices in standby
post #22 of 24
thanks... glad you appear to have things working in the direction you want. Of course, as you indicated at the start, it doesn't always happen so only time will tell. I am still unsure about the "main off power off" message. Your unit doesn't appear to have zones so not sure what "main" it is referring to. Possibly a software bug in that perhaps it shares a common system with other models that do have zones and it some how gets lost in that code area doing something as part of the shut down to standby.... just a wild guess though. I guess the only other option might be the "eco power auto shutdown" might be interacting about the time you happen to be shutting down... IF you have that set.... maybe. Good luck, fingers crossed.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

thanks... glad you appear to have things working in the direction you want. Of course, as you indicated at the start, it doesn't always happen so only time will tell. I am still unsure about the "main off power off" message. Your unit doesn't appear to have zones so not sure what "main" it is referring to. Possibly a software bug in that perhaps it shares a common system with other models that do have zones and it some how gets lost in that code area doing something as part of the shut down to standby.... just a wild guess though. I guess the only other option might be the "eco power auto shutdown" might be interacting about the time you happen to be shutting down... IF you have that set.... maybe. Good luck, fingers crossed.

eco mode is off and auto power off is set to 12 hours of inactivity (though it was also off before a few days ago while the problem was occurring)
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
just wanted to mention no issues since I started making sure the TV was on anytime the AVR was turned on OR off and switched to all passive HDMI cables (3 6-ft ones and 2 12-ft ones)
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