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Vizio P Series UHDTVs at CES 2014 - Page 5

post #121 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Fyi, the knuckleheads that filmed 28 Days Later, filmed it in native 480p!
The blu-ray version is just a SD movie upconverted to HD, but the native resolution is still 480p.

It is probably the worst blu-ray movie in existence.

The reason for it being so low resolution is that the movie was made in 2001 and was one of the first films to be shot in digital rather than on film. Even professional digital cameras weren't all that great fifteen years ago, and the camera they shot on was limited to 480p30.

There were a few reasons that led them to shoot on digital despite the resolution disadvantage. First, as mentioned, they were one of the few films to shoot in digital. There were also stylistic reasons, as the gritty/unpolished look fit the bleak nature of the movie. The major reason, however, was out of necessity. All those shots of an empty London were done by actually closing off major areas. They were only given a very short time frame to block everything, and felt they wouldn't be able to get what they needed with all the set up time and transportation of larger film-based cameras. Between the time limits and additional cost of film equipment, they wound up going with DV.

All that said, I will agree that it doesn't look all that great. It is, however, true to the source material - it looked just as bad in theaters as it does on Blu-ray.
post #122 of 256
When i first got into calibration and all that, I learned that its not about seeing what looks good to you, its about seeing it as accurately as possible.

Event he 4K sets wont make movies look any better if the director shoots them a certain way. I just want a large screen that can be calibrated accurately, thats the only control you have.
post #123 of 256

So 55" and 65" versions will be unspecified VA panels from AUO, 60" and 70" will be 8-bit A-MVA panels from Sharp, and LG will be making the 50" panels. Does anyone know what panel tech will be used in the 50" sets? It is my understanding that LG does not produce any VA panels. I really hope that the 50" is not stuck with an IPS panel. I know a lot of people love them and they have solid viewing angles, but I prefer the deeper blacks and improved contrast of VA. If it is IPS in the 50" model, I will probably get the 55" instead for my computer than the 50" even though it is a tad larger and more expensive than I want(unless reviews and experience prove the 50" to be an equal or better set of course). 

post #124 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJameson View Post

So 55" and 65" versions will be unspecified VA panels from AUO, 60" and 70" will be 8-bit A-MVA panels from Sharp, and LG will be making the 50" panels. Does anyone know what panel tech will be used in the 50" sets? It is my understanding that LG does not produce any VA panels. I really hope that the 50" is not stuck with an IPS panel. I know a lot of people love them and they have solid viewing angles, but I prefer the deeper blacks and improved contrast of VA. If it is IPS in the 50" model, I will probably get the 55" instead for my computer than the 50" even though it is a tad larger and more expensive than I want(unless reviews and experience prove the 50" to be an equal or better set of course). 
If the 50" happens to be an IPS panel the FALD will certainly help with black level performance.
post #125 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post


If the 50" happens to be an IPS panel the FALD will certainly help with black level performance.

Yeah but look at the LG LM9600 vs the Sony HX929 or HX950. Almost every negative about the LG come from the fact that the IPS panel used has very limited black levels. VA panels are astronomically better at producing accurate picture and high contrast in optimal conditions. IPS panels are popular because of their versatility. I have a wide gamut IPS 27" wqhd monitor, a 27" PLS wqhd monitor, a Panasonic ST60, and 2 S-PVA Sony sets. Of all of my screens, my ST60 and my HX820 are the best. Only VA panels can hope to match plasmas in optimal viewing conditions.

post #126 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJameson View Post

Yeah but look at the LG LM9600 vs the Sony HX929 or HX950. Almost every negative about the LG come from the fact that the IPS panel used has very limited black levels. VA panels are astronomically better at producing accurate picture and high contrast in optimal conditions. IPS panels are popular because of their versatility. I have a wide gamut IPS 27" wqhd monitor, a 27" PLS wqhd monitor, a Panasonic ST60, and 2 S-PVA Sony sets. Of all of my screens, my ST60 and my HX820 are the best. Only VA panels can hope to match plasmas in optimal viewing conditions.

While it is no secret that VA panels have roughly 5x the native contrast as IPS panels, IPS can still look amazing with the right backlighting. The LG lm9600 has a terrible version of FALD. Look at the x900a from sony, it looks amazing yet it uses an IPS panel and edge-lighting.
post #127 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post


While it is no secret that VA panels have roughly 5x the native contrast as IPS panels, IPS can still look amazing with the right backlighting. The LG lm9600 has a terrible version of FALD. Look at the x900a from sony, it looks amazing yet it uses an IPS panel and edge-lighting.

only the 84" used an LG panel and everything I have seen supports the claim that IPS tech just doesn't produce the quality direct line of sight viewing experience of a VA panel, regardless of backlight. Yes, backlighting can make or break a set, but ultimately a set's picture quality begins and ends with the panel. The only reason I have an IPS/PLS panel is for the resolution and my wide gamut panel is fantastic for prints as it requires much less editing to produce a photo how I want it. There is very little difference in quality between a PLS/IPS panel from either Samsung or LG and there is very little difference between a S-MVA/A-MVA/S-PVA panel between VA manufacturers. However, there is a massive gap between the two respective approaches to LCD tech. Sigh, if only I coul afford the X950B from Sony. Still, a 55" full array, 2160p, HDMI 2.0, va panel from a semi respectable company Vizio for $1400 MSRP is crazy awesome and I can hardly wait.


Edited by JJameson - 1/27/14 at 10:43pm
post #128 of 256
The DigiTimes link refers to the P Series.... But never trust Digitimes....

As for panel types, it'd be amazing if there was a panel with the contrast of VA and the viewing angles of IPS.
post #129 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJameson View Post

only the 84" used an LG panel and everything I have seen supports the claim that IPS tech just doesn't produce the quality direct line of sight viewing experience of a VA panel, regardless of backlight. Yes, backlighting can make or break a set, but ultimately a set's picture quality begins and ends with the panel. The only reason I have an IPS/PLS panel is for the resolution and my wide gamut panel is fantastic for prints as it requires much less editing to produce a photo how I want it. There is very little difference in quality between a PLS/IPS panel from either Samsung or LG and there is very little difference between a S-MVA/A-MVA/S-PVA panel between VA manufacturers. However, there is a massive gap between the two respective approaches to LCD tech. Sigh, if only I coul afford the X950B from Sony. Still, a 55" full array, 2160p, HDMI 2.0, va panel from a semi respectable company Vizio for $1400 MSRP is crazy awesome and I can hardly wait.

The 55" x900a is an IPS panel.
post #130 of 256

I know it uses an IGZO panel so whether it is an IPS or VA is something I have yet to see. Even so, it still doesn't have the black levels and contrast of last years similar HX850 so I maintain my reservations about the 50" panel.

post #131 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJameson View Post

I know it uses an IGZO panel so whether it is an IPS or VA is something I have yet to see. Even so, it still doesn't have the black levels and contrast of last years similar HX850 so I maintain my reservations about the 50" pa

Do you know if the 70 P series is a Sharp IGZO panel? I know Sharp is making the 70 panel for Vizio P series.

This is another old post I found about sharp 70 inch panel and it is 10 bit,

http://hdguru.com/sharp-lc-70ud1u-ultra-hdtv-first-hands-on-review/

The LC-70UD1U is full of features: 10-bit UHD LCD panel (all others to date are 8-bit), Smart TV
WOW! P series with 70 in 10 bit panel!
Edited by 6athome - 1/28/14 at 10:10am
post #132 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post

Do you know if the 70 P series is a Sharp IGZO panel? I know Sharp is making the 70 panel for Vizio P series.

This is another old post I found about sharp 70 inch panel and it is 10 bit,

http://hdguru.com/sharp-lc-70ud1u-ultra-hdtv-first-hands-on-review/

The LC-70UD1U is full of features: 10-bit UHD LCD panel (all others to date are 8-bit), Smart TV
WOW! P series with 70 in 10 bit panel!
I don't know, sorry. It would be great if so but anything I could say on that would be extreme speculation.
post #133 of 256
Every commercial 70-inch panel is made by Sharp... (I recognize someone insists that there is a 70-inch Samsung in the commodity market, but there is simply no evidence that there is a product based on it -- even from Samsung).
post #134 of 256
Anything on input lag?
post #135 of 256
The big question is.....When are these P series gonna get here for our greedy little hands & eyes to fondle? I am looking for a 70" TV ..This is terrible, like holding candy behind the glass locked door....eek.gif
post #136 of 256
Upcoming Vizio's are impressive but I wonder how they set the prices so low? confused.gif They must be cutting some corners somewhere.....
post #137 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post

Upcoming Vizio's are impressive but I wonder how they set the prices so low? confused.gif They must be cutting some corners somewhere.....

I read somewhere that at least on the 4K sets that alignment of the polarizer for passive 3D is a rather difficult task, so I'm guessing the elimination of 3D is where the big drop in price for the 4K sets is coming from.
post #138 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer the medic View Post

I spent the first half of last year trying to decide on which TV to buy and finally bought a 70" M series which was my first Vizio, I've had nothing buy excellent performance from it and was 100% happy with it then I read this about the P Series. Looks like I'll be adding another TV to my collection when these launch. (That doesn't mean I'm not still 100% happy with the M btw)

Great to know, I have spent the last half of last year to date decide that I would go for the Samsung F658000 series.....until I heard about this.

Now another one to consider. For the same money (a bit less) as a 65" F8000 I think it is a no brainer to consider the P series. Provided all of the specs are = or better than the F8000
post #139 of 256
I just wish we could get a date for the P series.
post #140 of 256
Well, now that I read the entire thread, I see that the P is not going to be a 3D TV. That is a deal breaker for me....back to Samsung
Edited by CaptMike - 2/1/14 at 9:11am
post #141 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post

Well, now that I read the entire thread, I see that the P is not going to be a 3D TV. That is a deal breaker for me.

I would have taken a long look at the 70" P and the 65" R Series except for that omission.
post #142 of 256
Vizio announcing their 4K TVs at record breaking price point WITHOUT a release date, was a clever way of stealing the spotlight at CES... However, technically speaking they have till the END of the year, by when everyone else's 4K TVs will have dropped to the same price range.
post #143 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captbill View Post

The big question is.....When are these P series gonna get here for our greedy little hands & eyes to fondle? I am looking for a 70" TV ..This is terrible, like holding candy behind the glass locked door....eek.gif

 

It could be worse.

 

My living room television just went dead.  Replaced it with a 13".

post #144 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post

Well, now that I read the entire thread, I see that the P is not going to be a 3D TV. That is a deal breaker for me....back to Samsung

Not necessarily true. I posted a question on Vizios facebook page and got a response directly from them. Basically they said the specs arent set in stone yet and we just have to wait.
post #145 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by blau808 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post

Well, now that I read the entire thread, I see that the P is not going to be a 3D TV. That is a deal breaker for me....back to Samsung

Not necessarily true. I posted a question on Vizios facebook page and got a response directly from them. Basically they said the specs arent set in stone yet and we just have to wait.

I guess hope springs eternal. It would mean that the LCD panels would already have to have been specified with the proper polarizer orientation design to support passive 3D (alternating lines have the polarizers oriented at 90 degrees to each other) and also would probably translate into a delay in the release of the P Series...

In the case that the panels for the P Series have already been specified so that they could support passive 3D, I sure hope Vizio stays on track to release the P Series as soon as possible (which means without support for 3D) and announces that a firmware update will be available in the future to add 3D support to the P Series.

For us non-3D enthusiasts (or may be more correctly, us non-3D fanatics biggrin.gif), any delay in the release of the P Series to add support for 3D would be a mistake and a real shame...


-fafrd

p.s. don't get me wrong. I have passive 3D on my current LG LED/LCD and if passive 3D were available on the Vizio P Series, it would not make me unhappy. I just think Vizio has layed out a brilliant strategy to focus on cost-effective 4K with FALD backlight, and it would be a real shame if they pissed away the opportunity that represents by questioning their decision and delaying release of the P to incorporate support for 3D. With all of the products announced this year to bring down the cost of 4K and make it a more mainstream capability, including the Sharp 1080p+/4K- panels, time-to-market is especially important this season - hopefully Vizio gets that.
post #146 of 256

For the 50" P series Have there been anyspecs released that might indicate it will handle motion judder and blur better than a Samsung 120 Hz (240 cmr)?

 

Will the M series have the the same type of specs?

post #147 of 256
Seems like Vizio is playing a marketing game. I mean announcing these all new sets and not even having a time frame for release...On their web site when the question was raised for a release time. The Vizio spokemans answer was they would have an announcement when they were going to make the announcement.eek.gif Sounds like a lot of double talk to me. Like they don't have the product ready for consumption...Such a shame as the P series sounds pretty good...Another thing they still have 2013 prattle on their website...It is 2014...Bill
post #148 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captbill View Post

Seems like Vizio is playing a marketing game. I mean announcing these all new sets and not even having a time frame for release...On their web site when the question was raised for a release time. The Vizio spokemans answer was they would have an announcement when they were going to make the announcement.eek.gif Sounds like a lot of double talk to me. Like they don't have the product ready for consumption...Such a shame as the P series sounds pretty good...Another thing they still have 2013 prattle on their website...It is 2014...Bill

The purpose of the annual CES is for manufacturers to show off their new products. However their product cycles don't revolve around the trade show. There is nothing unusual about Vizio or any other manufacturers not releasing a time frame for their products.

There's three sure things in life, taxes, death and no 3D on any 2014 Vizio TVs.
post #149 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captbill View Post

Seems like Vizio is playing a marketing game. I mean announcing these all new sets and not even having a time frame for release...On their web site when the question was raised for a release time. The Vizio spokemans answer was they would have an announcement when they were going to make the announcement.eek.gif Sounds like a lot of double talk to me. Like they don't have the product ready for consumption...Such a shame as the P series sounds pretty good...Another thing they still have 2013 prattle on their website...It is 2014...Bill

Simmer down Captain - the P-series will be out by the second half of this year. The reason they still have all the 13 models on their website is pretty obvious - they are still selling them. biggrin.gif

Wait, I thought - "no 3D was the killer for you on this set"?
post #150 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwblue17 View Post

For the 50" P series Have there been anyspecs released that might indicate it will handle motion judder and blur better than a Samsung 120 Hz (240 cmr)?

Will the M series have the the same type of specs?

Look here: http://ces.vizio.com/p-series.html#skip

The P Series is has a Clear Action Rarte of 960Hz, which means they are claiming that it will have an action rate 4 times that of a Samsung with a 240 CMR (also based on a 120Hz native refresh rate).

If true, that would mean that motion blur on the P Series would be reduced 4 times more than the Samsung, but I don't believe it. This would require sacrificing 88% of the light output and I seriously doubt that the P series will have a bright enough backlight to actually achieve that (since it would have to be at least as bright as the 800 Nit Reference Series backlight.

A more reasonable assumption is that the P Series achieves a 'true' action rate of 480Hz (half of what they are claiming) by reducing light output by only 75%. This would still mean twice the motion blur reduction of the Samsung, so in any case the P Series should be superior to the Samsung in terms of reducing motion blur.

In terms of judder, the P Series supports a 24fps/48fps True Cinema Mode which should mean the equivalent of 5:5 pulldown and no judder for 24fps content and a similar no-judder solution to deliver a true 48fps.

-fafrd
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