or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › Panasonic's plans post Plasma?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Panasonic's plans post Plasma? - Page 3

post #61 of 87
Flat-panel manufacturing requires minimal labor.
post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Flat-panel manufacturing requires minimal labor.

Apparently except those 110" and 120" panels biggrin.gif. Anyway, problem is huge investment costs for manufacturing plants.
post #63 of 87
They wouldn't tell you so--it looks like we are doomed to LCD forever! Who can take it?
post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

They wouldn't tell you so--it looks like we are doomed to LCD forever! Who can take it?

 

I can handle your tirades.  I can handle anything.

post #65 of 87
You can't handle admitting that LCD is worse than plasma or OLED. You can't handle that truth!
post #66 of 87
Artwood, you ALMOST got the famous NIcholson quote right..................."You can't handle the truth!" smile.gif
post #67 of 87
Panasonic's post plasma plans.
Toasters
Shavers
Personal Grooming devices.

All things they where better at before they did TV.
(ducks)
post #68 of 87
My Panasonic shaver is so so.. It's probably less good at shaving than the Braun, but the cleaning carts are 1/3 as expensive and the power supply "rings" at 1/3 the volume...

I'd be happy if they came up with a better version.
post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Panasonic's post plasma plans.
Toasters
Shavers
Personal Grooming devices.

All things they where better at before they did TV.
(ducks)

 

Panasonic microwaves are awesome.  We invited some friends over and sat around and watched it for a couple hours.  Cool times.  Waiting for the 60" model....

post #70 of 87
Panasonic Shows Its Latest 4K and OLED TVs at CES 2014

Panasonic may have stopped plasma TV production at the end of 2013, and now instead the company is investing into 4K and OLED technologies and displaying the fruits of its labour at the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. These are some of the highlights of Panasonic’s display.

4K Ultra HD TV

The new Life+ Screen AX800 series, a new 4K Ultra LED HD TV (for the US market) offering overwhelmingly high picture quality along with next generation smart functions, is currently on display. The new advanced personalization functions of the AX800 series, such as “my Stream”, allowing the user to seamlessly link and display a variety of content according to their tastes, and “Info Bar”, a self-starting information display, are being demonstrated at the show. The new AX800 series will come in 58-inch and 65-inch screen sizes and feature HDMI 2.0 support, so they be fed 4K 60p content through a single HDMI cable. Along with the 3840 x 2160 resolution and THX certification, the new sets off Panasonic’s Studio Master Color technology, said to reproduce colours with richness and accuracy, with a high colour space LED backlight. Local dimming helps to paint deep black levels, while a dedicated 4K Fine Remaster Engine upscales all incoming signals to 4K.


Story HERE
post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Panasonic microwaves are awesome.  We invited some friends over and sat around and watched it for a couple hours.  Cool times.  Waiting for the 60" model....

They also make pretty good vacuum cleaners (OEM maker for Sears Kenmore) - i recently upgraded mine and it works fantastic, but it has a big problem with maroon . . . .







On the TV front, here's a good rundown of Panasonic's upcoming 2014 A-Series 1080p LED LCD Line-Up:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/panasonic-introduces-1080p-led-lcd-life-screen-line-up-238921191.html
post #72 of 87
Just ran across this



NEW!


58" Class Life+ Screen AX800 Series 4K Ultra HD TV (57.5" Diag.)


Model: TC-58AX800U


PREORDER HERE
post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Mueller View Post

58" Class Life+ Screen AX800 Series 4K Ultra HD TV (57.5" Diag.)
Model: TC-58AX800U
PREORDER HERE

 

Sub-60"....they better be whopp'n worth it for $4500 in 2014.  Are these guys paying attention to the Vizio M.O. at all?


Edited by tgm1024 - 2/1/14 at 1:44pm
post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Sub-60"....they better be whopp'n worth it for $4500 in 2014.  Are these guys paying attention to the Vizio M.O. at all?


When I bought my 42" Panasonic "ED" the list price was $8k
I "stole it" off a site for $5K

This is the Panasonic suggested retail
post #75 of 87
It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.
post #76 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.

My guess is they'll make their last TVs in the first week of December, 2014. And end up never offering any OLED TVs.
post #77 of 87
I can't say as I'll feel compelled to grab their final LCD panel as I did with their last plasma. They won't miss me or my tiny market segment anyway.
post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I can't say as I'll feel compelled to grab their final LCD panel as I did with their last plasma. They won't miss me or my tiny market segment anyway.
I think it's the only television which supports 4K at 60Hz in RGB via DisplayPort right now. The only other displays which do this are monitors which are 32" or smaller. (no use to me)
All the HDMI 2.0 displays being released this year seem to only support 4K60 with 4:2:0 subsampling. (totally unsuitable for PC/Game use)

That makes them very interesting to me, but they're larger than I would want for a monitor (around 46" is ideal for a 4K monitor) and I won't buy an edge-lit display.
I don't think they're using IPS panels either, and while I prefer a non-IPS panel for television use, it is a better choice for a monitor.
post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I think it's the only television which supports 4K at 60Hz in RGB via DisplayPort right now. The only other displays which do this are monitors which are 32" or smaller. (no use to me)
All the HDMI 2.0 displays being released this year seem to only support 4K60 with 4:2:0 subsampling. (totally unsuitable for PC/Game use)

That makes them very interesting to me, but they're larger than I would want for a monitor (around 46" is ideal for a 4K monitor) and I won't buy an edge-lit display.
I don't think they're using IPS panels either, and while I prefer a non-IPS panel for television use, it is a better choice for a monitor.

 

The IPS claim to fame is the off-angle viewing.  With a PC monitor, you're always front and center.  Are you talking about the drop in contrast?

post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

My guess is they'll make their last TVs in the first week of December, 2014. And end up never offering any OLED TVs.


I'll believe it when I see it.


Ian wink.gif
post #81 of 87
Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels, and if that is correct, then it will be very easy for them to get out of the business entirely? So far they have never been a big player in the LCD TV market, and it is hard for me to see a way for them to be able to take away market share from the likes of Samsung, LG, Sharp, and Sony, so I do think it is far more likely that Panasonic will get out of the TV production business entirely, rather than that they will be able to capture a meaningful share of the market.

However, I am looking forward to their release of a curved version of the 60 inch microwave, which they claim will allow all us hungry people to view our rotating frozen pizzas from the sweet spot!
post #82 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

The IPS claim to fame is the off-angle viewing.  With a PC monitor, you're always front and center.  Are you talking about the drop in contrast?
The corners show viewing angle problems when you are at monitor distances to a 58/65" display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels
Their large IPS panels are sourced from LG, and I think their 4K displays are using Samsung panels. (looked like it anyway)
Their small IPS LCDs may still be IPS-α panels.
post #83 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels, and if that is correct, then it will be very easy for them to get out of the business entirely?

Correct. I'm not sure they make any of their TV panels.
Quote:
So far they have never been a big player in the LCD TV market, and it is hard for me to see a way for them to be able to take away market share from the likes of Samsung, LG, Sharp, and Sony, so I do think it is far more likely that Panasonic will get out of the TV production business entirely, rather than that they will be able to capture a meaningful share of the market.

They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.

  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.
post #84 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.
 
  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.

 

Awesome #1-3 sum-up.  My only complaint is that I couldn't up-thumb it twice.

 

If I could be so bold as to add speculation as #4.  Actually fits in at #2.5 as a guess. It's been mentioned more than once that panasonic's president was very vocal about his slash and burn strategy for profitless divisions.  It is not as though Panasonic is now headed by a president willing to stay in "at all costs".  Perhaps this adds to the likelihood of being the next "once major" player to exit.

post #85 of 87
Yep, that's a good #4/#2.5 point.
post #86 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Correct. I'm not sure they make any of their TV panels.
They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.

  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.



I would add anecdotally that sony also seems to carry just about the highest retail prices of any of the major brands. I have read that whatever revenues sony is generating from the lcd business is largely coming from their high end models. Suffice it to say whatever proprietary processing sony adds to these panels does not justify their retail premiums.

Sony seems to be able to retail at higher prices due to some consumer nostalgia based on sonys prior technological superiority in the crt market.

if sony can't make money currently with their lcds even with this residual consumer " margin" sony has, it only further evidences that this is not a viable model for Panasonic to duplicate.
post #87 of 87
Panasonic CS on 2 ocassions has verified that this TV, TC-58AX800U, does not support 3D at all.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › Panasonic's plans post Plasma?