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Official 2014 Vizio Exxx-Bx Series owners thread - Page 3

post #61 of 1304
The beginning of kill bill vol.1 when the names and all that appear, I realized about it being pretty bad in my m501d, cause it's all dark except that in white like credits and all that.
I don't know if it's what y'all talking about but can help to see if the full array led and local dimming make any improvement in the set.
Sin city, tron legacy, Sweeney Todd, ... Are some that have a lot of black scenes to try
post #62 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Yes, you will only notice the letterbox changing from black to dark grey in a completely dark viewing environment...

-fafrd

OK i will see if i can try Dark Knight tonight it is pretty dark and has bright scenes. I have definitely seen it before on my M Series but want to make sure I use a source that will really show it.
post #63 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdeath View Post

The beginning of kill bill vol.1 when the names and all that appear, I realized about it being pretty bad in my m501d, cause it's all dark except that in white like credits and all that.
I don't know if it's what y'all talking about but can help to see if the full array led and local dimming make any improvement in the set.
Sin city, tron legacy, Sweeney Todd, ... Are some that have a lot of black scenes to try

Ah I have Sin City and Kill Bill on Blu Ray I will try both of those too. Sin City should look great on this tv since the contrast is so good.
post #64 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by benz5521 View Post

There were prices on Vizio's site for some of the models, but they have been taken down, so pricing must be changing or something.

Vizio is getting too much attention so their getting big headed mad.gifbiggrin.gif
post #65 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdeath View Post

The beginning of kill bill vol.1 when the names and all that appear, I realized about it being pretty bad in my m501d, cause it's all dark except that in white like credits and all that.
I don't know if it's what y'all talking about but can help to see if the full array led and local dimming make any improvement in the set.
Sin city, tron legacy, Sweeney Todd, ... Are some that have a lot of black scenes to try


Ok, so I just played Kill Bill Vol 1 and watched when the credits come on. There is definitely some flash-lighting going on. It isn't too bad but it is noticeable. When the area does shut off it is completely black and the zones to seem to be horizontal zones as I can see it mostly next to the titles coming on. It really is only super noticeable in this kind of scenario. I don't remember noticing it when I was watching Skyfall during a firework scene.

With the Smart dimming off the whole screen stayed about the same level of brightness but it was not able to achieve the same black levels as with the smart dimming on. Overall I think I will leave the smart dimming on as it seems to produce a much better picture and the flash-lighting is only really noticeable in extreme scenarios.

I would try and take a picture but I can't imagine taking a picture in the dark would work very well.
post #66 of 1304
Flashlighting with a back lit display?? is it just a light area or halo around the bright objects?

You mention horizontal zones. Do the zones stretch across the width of the screen? I can imagine that would be so if it has only 5 zones. So, it appears to me with so few zones this is really not a full array display, but rather what should be called direct lit. It's back lit but with far fewer LEDs than what should be called full array. This type of display is cheaper to produce than edge lit and is not a great advance over edge lit and usually does not have local dimming. The terms full array and direct are used somewhat indiscriminately by manufacturers.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57572740-221/led-lcd-backlights-explained/

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/05/what-is-a-direct-lit-led-lcd-tv/index.htm
post #67 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Flashlighting with a back lit display?? is it just a light area or halo around the bright objects?

You mention horizontal zones. Do the zones stretch across the width of the screen? I can imagine that would be so if it has only 5 zones. So, it appears to me with so few zones this is really not a full array display, but rather what should be called direct lit. It's back lit but with far fewer LEDs than what should be called full array. This type of display is cheaper to produce than edge lit and is not a great advance over edge lit and usually does not have local dimming. The terms full array and direct are used somewhat indiscriminately by manufacturers.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57572740-221/led-lcd-backlights-explained/

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/05/what-is-a-direct-lit-led-lcd-tv/index.htm

It is full array but has zones that can turn off to help with black levels. I am not sure how many leds it has behind it. The flashlight effect isn't nearly as prominent as on the market series but does still exist
post #68 of 1304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Flashlighting with a back lit display?? is it just a light area or halo around the bright objects?

You mention horizontal zones. Do the zones stretch across the width of the screen? I can imagine that would be so if it has only 5 zones. So, it appears to me with so few zones this is really not a full array display, but rather what should be called direct lit. It's back lit but with far fewer LEDs than what should be called full array. This type of display is cheaper to produce than edge lit and is not a great advance over edge lit and usually does not have local dimming. The terms full array and direct are used somewhat indiscriminately by manufacturers.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57572740-221/led-lcd-backlights-explained/

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/05/what-is-a-direct-lit-led-lcd-tv/index.htm

I would guess that it is full array that has just been organized into a very small number of large dimming zones. Full array or direct is a question of how many LEDs are used in the backplane (and the distance required between the lighting plane and the LCD - direct; lighting uses fewer LEDs but is thicker because those LEDs need to be positioned farther away from the LCD plane to provide uniform lighting).

My guess is that the E, M and P Series all use the same number of LEDs on the backplane and just organize them into smaller and smaller local dimming zones to improve performance. It's pure speculation and we will need to wait for the breakdown reports a few months from now to be sure, but this would allow for standardized manufacturing and R&D to be leveraged across the product lineup...

-fafrd
post #69 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post


Ok, so I just played Kill Bill Vol 1 and watched when the credits come on. There is definitely some flash-lighting going on. It isn't too bad but it is noticeable. When the area does shut off it is completely black and the zones to seem to be horizontal zones as I can see it mostly next to the titles coming on. It really is only super noticeable in this kind of scenario. I don't remember noticing it when I was watching Skyfall during a firework scene.

With the Smart dimming off the whole screen stayed about the same level of brightness but it was not able to achieve the same black levels as with the smart dimming on. Overall I think I will leave the smart dimming on as it seems to produce a much better picture and the flash-lighting is only really noticeable in extreme scenarios.

I would try and take a picture but I can't imagine taking a picture in the dark would work very well.

Thanks mxpx5678, yeah a picture would have been awesome but I understand that it's not easy at all to take those pictures...

The flashligtning that you say is the same effect that you can observe also with your M601?

 

I read this..."Local dimming can have an adverse effect on picture quality if stray illumination or “blooming” -- in which light from bright pixels leaks, or bleeds, into dark pixels making them appear less dark -- occurs. The frequency of blooming is directly proportional to the number of LED elements that are capable of local dimming, but TV manufacturers don’t always make this information available to consumers."
Is this true? Does it occur?

post #70 of 1304
Yeah, I was thinking he might be observing blooming rather than flashlighting. To me flashlighting implies a wedge of light, shaped like a flashlight beam, coming out from a corner or side of an edge lit display from a poorly shielded edge LED. Maybe I have always taken that definition too literally. Blooming is a common side effect from local dimming where the bright object is surrounded by a halo or patch of light. With only 5 zones, something like blooming could be rather substantial.
post #71 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Yeah, I was thinking he might be observing blooming rather than flashlighting. To me flashlighting implies a wedge of light, shaped like a flashlight beam, coming out from a corner or side of an edge lit display from a poorly shielded edge LED. Maybe I have always taken that definition too literally. Blooming is a common side effect from local dimming where the bright object is surrounded by a halo or patch of light. With only 5 zones, something like blooming could be rather substantial.

So maybe it is blooming instead. Whatever it is it isn't that bad and does not affect normal viewing and only shows up in extreme situations.
post #72 of 1304
post #73 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

So maybe it is blooming instead. Whatever it is it isn't that bad and does not affect normal viewing and only shows up in extreme situations.

A lot of TVs will show a "blooming" or "halos" around credits at the end of a movie on a black screen when the credits are moving up the screen. The point is
who cares? Personally I don't watch the credits anyway biggrin.gif. My only interest is in when actual content is playing....
post #74 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

Ok, so I just played Kill Bill Vol 1 and watched when the credits come on. There is definitely some flash-lighting going on. It isn't too bad but it is noticeable. When the area does shut off it is completely black and the zones to seem to be horizontal zones as I can see it mostly next to the titles coming on. It really is only super noticeable in this kind of scenario. I don't remember noticing it when I was watching Skyfall during a firework scene.

With the Smart dimming off the whole screen stayed about the same level of brightness but it was not able to achieve the same black levels as with the smart dimming on. Overall I think I will leave the smart dimming on as it seems to produce a much better picture and the flash-lighting is only really noticeable in extreme scenarios.

I would try and take a picture but I can't imagine taking a picture in the dark would work very well.


Sounds like the behavior of my Toshiba from 2009.

It wasnt bad and only some scenes show it, mainly if you watch movies in a pitch black room. I remember a scene in a tv show or movie, where someone walked across the screen and they were in a dark room with a candle in their hand. You could see the zones popping on and off around the candle flame. Once again, easy to see in a dark room, in a normal room with a light, not so much.

One cool thing about backlit sets with local dimming is your letterbox bars usually stay midnight black during the movie, while the edge lit sets not so much.
post #75 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post

A lot of TVs will show a "blooming" or "halos" around credits at the end of a movie on a black screen when the credits are moving up the screen. The point is
who cares? Personally I don't watch the credits anyway biggrin.gif. My only interest is in when actual content is playing....

Understood, but its a good test and there will be times you'll see it in the right content, if you are in the dark.

The larger problem with my Toshiba is it had a bad green push down low, so when these zones turned on in a dark scene, they werent only lit a little, but had too much green.
post #76 of 1304
Question for owners: How are the letterboxes on this set? Are they fully black or is it variable depending on the content on the screen?
post #77 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich7sena View Post

Question for owners: How are the letterboxes on this set? Are they fully black or is it variable depending on the content on the screen?

I still need to watch more but so far I haven't noticed anything about the letterbox not being black.
post #78 of 1304
To me, if they are smart when designing a FALD set, regardless of "zones", they aim to ensure its setup where they can shut off the letterbox section. Those bars not changing, or being gray, adds a lot less distraction in a dark room.
post #79 of 1304
Hey can one of you load a mkv file on a thumb drive and see it the tv plays it? Not sure if it really makes a difference to everyone but on one of the Amazon reviews they said they loaded a mkv file and it didnt play.(Just in case this is important to someone looking at the tv)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GKKI4Q6?tag=anan06-20
post #80 of 1304
Goddamn. Does NewEgg really not carry any Vizio TVs? All I'm seeing on there is refurb ****. I was hoping to get that new 40" tax free, but so far only Walmart and Amazon seem to have it.
post #81 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

Goddamn. Does NewEgg really not carry any Vizio TVs? All I'm seeing on there is refurb ****. I was hoping to get that new 40" tax free, but so far only Walmart and Amazon seem to have it.

It's not His fault. Hope you find a place to purchase.

post #82 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper187 View Post

Goddamn. Does NewEgg really not carry any Vizio TVs? All I'm seeing on there is refurb ****. I was hoping to get that new 40" tax free, but so far only Walmart and Amazon seem to have it.

Crutchfield- Beachcamera- Onecall ????
post #83 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewhale1 View Post

Hey can one of you load a mkv file on a thumb drive and see it the tv plays it? Not sure if it really makes a difference to everyone but on one of the Amazon reviews they said they loaded a mkv file and it didnt play.(Just in case this is important to someone looking at the tv)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GKKI4Q6?tag=anan06-20

The vizio TVs don't reproduce mkv files. It reproduces mp4 so just rename the file from .mkv to .mp4 and fixed wink.gif
post #84 of 1304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

To me, if they are smart when designing a FALD set, regardless of "zones", they aim to ensure its setup where they can shut off the letterbox section. Those bars not changing, or being gray, adds a lot less distraction in a dark room.

Yeah, I have trouble calling a panel with 5 horizontal dimming zones 'local', but as a minimum, the benefit of Full Array backlight with that simple level of control should be to black out the upper and lower letterbox areas of the screen while watching widescreen content.

I'd be interested in what mxpm5678 sees when he watches 4:3 content in the dark - my prediction is that the letterbox part of the screen on the left and the right don't look nearly as dark (and hopefully don't shift in darkness as the content plays).

To handle letter-box blackout for both widescreen and 4:3 content, you would presumably need a minimum of 9 dimming zones.

Will be interested to hear how many dimming zones were implemented on the 50" E Series panel when the first one comes in on Thursday.

At least Vizio will be able to deliver improved screen uniformity and letterbox blacking with their new 'FALD' lineup. But unless they have developed some new secret sauce that I cannot fathom, blacks are going to be severely crushed within each 'dimming zone' when there is any bright content within it.

The 65" R Series looks like the only true FALD implementation in the lineup (though I will hold out some hope for the P Series at least until we get our hands on one - 64 dimming zones is a lot closer to 200 than 16...)

-fafrd
post #85 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Yeah, I have trouble calling a panel with 5 horizontal dimming zones 'local', but as a minimum, the benefit of Full Array backlight with that simple level of control should be to black out the upper and lower letterbox areas of the screen while watching widescreen content.

I'd be interested in what mxpm5678 sees when he watches 4:3 content in the dark - my prediction is that the letterbox part of the screen on the left and the right don't look nearly as dark (and hopefully don't shift in darkness as the content plays).

To handle letter-box blackout for both widescreen and 4:3 content, you would presumably need a minimum of 9 dimming zones.

Will be interested to hear how many dimming zones were implemented on the 50" E Series panel when the first one comes in on Thursday.

At least Vizio will be able to deliver improved screen uniformity and letterbox blacking with their new 'FALD' lineup. But unless they have developed some new secret sauce that I cannot fathom, blacks are going to be severely crushed within each 'dimming zone' when there is any bright content within it.

The 65" R Series looks like the only true FALD implementation in the lineup (though I will hold out some hope for the P Series at least until we get our hands on one - 64 dimming zones is a lot closer to 200 than 16...)

-fafrd

The 50inch has 16 zones.
post #86 of 1304

Is this TV really 120hz or is it just the faked stuff again? Is it good for gaming?

post #87 of 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexownz View Post

Is this TV really 120hz or is it just the faked stuff again? Is it good for gaming?

It is not clear, however, you are better off with a 60hz panel with backlight scanning to achieve the perceived 120hz refresh compared to a native 120hz refresh rate panel. Backlight scanning is extremely effective at getting rid of motion blur. And yes, the new E-series has low input lag and is excellent for gaming.
post #88 of 1304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

The 50inch has 16 zones.

Great - so results from that panel should give us a better idea of the 'true' FALD technology Vizio is bringing to market.

I sure hope the 16 zones of the 50" and above are organized as a 4x4 matrix of dimming zones and not 16 thin zones extending all the way across the screen...

-fafrd

p.s. when you get a chance, I'd be interested in what it looks like when you watch 4:3 content in the dark (ideally relatively dark content as well) on your 40" panel. I predict that you will see lighter (more dark grey than black) letterbox zones to the left and right on your set than the black upper and lower zones you saw when watching a widescreen movie. But I hope the letterbox zones are constant and not changing in darkness as the content plays...
post #89 of 1304
Did you guys notice the specs for the 39 inch state 6 zones, compared to the 5 on the 40 inch. WTF?
post #90 of 1304

Anyone getting a faint clicking noise when the tv is off?  I've read others that have the same issue.

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