AVS Forum banner

Help with Upgrade Options - Need More Bass

1K views 48 replies 12 participants last post by  BeeMan458 
#1 ·
Almost a year ago I decided to purchase a Rythmik F12 based on many great reviews of the company's subwoofers here on AVS. This is the first sub I've ever owned, and I've been mostly happy with it. However, one thing I didn't take into consideration when making the purchase was the size of my room, and further reading on AVS makes me think that I need more sub for my space, especially since I don't feel the bass the way I want to (lack of room pressurization?).


So, here is the floor plan:





The family room with the TV has sloped ceilings going from 14' - 8'. Including the kitchen area, I calculated ~3000 cubic ft. Based on what I've read on the board about subs "seeing" adjoining spaces, the sub will also need to fill the adjoining living room (4' wide entry between the two areas) that is also 2000-3000 cubic ft (didn't take exact measurements), so let's say 5000-6000 cubic ft total that the sub needs to fill. I'm pretty sure the single F12 is too small.


Since I have no idea how to compare subs based on output and frequency range, or how to use those published measurements to know if it is enough sub for my space, I'm looking for some recommendations. Budget is
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Since you have on sealed rythmik, why not ask them if you could integrate a FV15HP into the mix. That would be in your budget, give you the most output and you'd still two subs to even things out.


Otherwise what would you do with your F12 if you went with duals of some other sub?
 
#3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24211453


Since you have on sealed rythmik, why not ask them if you could integrate a FV15HP into the mix. That would be in your budget, give you the most output and you'd still two subs to even things out.


Otherwise what would you do with your F12 if you went with duals of some other sub?

I thought about that, but my assumption was that overall the system would perform at the level of the F12, since it's the weakest link. Also, I'm under the impression that configuring two different subwoofers can be difficult, so I'm worried about increasing the level of complication though I do own a measuring mic and (sort of) know how to run REW.


I would sell the F12. It's flawless, less than a year old, and under warranty. I figure someone would want it. Otherwise it can go into a bedroom system.
 
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24211453


Since you have on sealed rythmik, why not ask them if you could integrate a FV15HP into the mix. That would be in your budget, give you the most output and you'd still two subs to even things out.

 
 

I agree with Kini, I would contact Rythmik and ask them for their take on it. They should know their subs better than anyone else and could really be helpful in your decision making. I think I would consider a second F12 or the FV15HP if they Ryhtmik endorsed it. 

 

If you decide to go a different direction I would suggest the FV15HP if you want to go with a single sub. If you want to go dual subs I would either go with dual XV15s (I have it and really like it) or dual SVS PB-2000. 
 
#6 ·
You may need to lower your expectations a bit. You could put a couple of 18-inchers in your open floorplan room and still not pressurize it (chest slam), if that's what you're hoping for.


If you're getting good response from your existing F12 you may find that just increasing the subwoofer channel gain in your AVR by several dB can make a big difference in your satisfaction with the sound. It's difficult to solve a problem without the necessary information however. Can you post your REW measurements?
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass/0_100#post_24211743


You may need to lower your expectations a bit. You could put a couple of 18-inchers in your open floorplan room and still not pressurize it (chest slam), if that's what you're hoping for.

I get furniture/floor/whole room rumble and shaking but can't say I have experience "chest slam." What should I look for?


(+1 on the FV15HP recommendation)
 
#8 ·
I wish all company runs business like SVS who allows trade in upgrade up to a year beside from paying for shipping both way and 5 yrs warranty. Not sure if the pb2000 is an upgrade over your F12 as it is more of a lateral move. For about your budget, I vote for dual xv15 but if it was me, I take a single fv15hp now and add a second one later which was exactly what I did. I came real real close to place an order on dual XV15's a year ago but pulled back and got a single fv15hp instead. I suggest you to check the numbers in databass to compare subs. I did that and the fv15hp clearly was and is still the winner within my price range and I feel real good about my decision after reading Dom's ULF thread. If I went with the xv15, I know I would ask myself what if I was going with the fv15hp
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass/0_50#post_24211803


I get furniture/floor/whole room rumble and shaking but can't say I have experience "chest slam." What should I look for?

The goal should be great sound. I have what I consider great sound in my open floorplan HT, but even five 18" drivers running 8 dB hot don't provide as much tactile response as I've felt in a modestly sized sealed room with a single 15-incher. Powerful, yes. Tactile, not so much.
 
#12 ·
Crank up some AC/DC in a car with a good sub. The feeling in your chest is the room pressurization / chest slam I'm referring to.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the replies so far.


So a couple of questions:


- Cowboys suggested that the PB2000 would be a lateral move from the F12. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


- Will the F12 + FV15HP dual set-up be any better than dual F12s? In other words, would the F12 hold the FV15HP back in performance? If not, am I going to have to go to great lengths to get the two to play nice together? (I'll also ask Rythmik about this, but curious to here other's opinions)
 
#15 ·
You wouldn't want to run a f12 alongside a FV15HP. The f12 will not be able to keep up, and would be overdriven if it tried to be heard at all over a FV15HP. As for the f12 vs the PB2000, we don't have measurements of either. The PB2000 will have a lot more output from the mid teens to near 40 Hz on account of its port.
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24212243


The PB2000 will have a lot more output from the mid teens to near 40 Hz on account of its port.

This was one of the reasons I was considering moving away from the F12 entirely; I always see it suggested that a ported sub is best in my situation. And in the case of the PB-2000 I would be able to test this without risk.
 
#17 ·
If your budget will handle it, just go for two FV15HPs and fer-get-about-it. Mixing and matching is right up there with wishing-and-a-hoping.


The way I read your comments, you want to commit but due to the price of admission, you're hesitant to commit.


The sooner one commits to putting together a reference level system, the sooner they'll get to where they "REALLY" want to go.


(my wife enables me and I pass it forward)


-
 
#18 ·

Based on your budget, room size, and sub choices, I would recommend dual XV15's.  I believe this will give you the best potential of pressurizing your large space within your budget, as it is a great max output bang for your buck subwoofer for those looking for max SPL.
 
#20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobio  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24212228


Thanks for the replies so far.


So a couple of questions:


- Cowboys suggested that the PB2000 would be a lateral move from the F12. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


- Will the F12 + FV15HP dual set-up be any better than dual F12s? In other words, would the F12 hold the FV15HP back in performance? If not, am I going to have to go to great lengths to get the two to play nice together? (I'll also ask Rythmik about this, but curious to here other's opinions)
I do not have personal experience with this BUT.....I had a similar question as I upgraded my sub and was left wondering what to do with the old.  One of the more astute voices on this forum(imo), Bill Fitzmaurice, stated that running a smaller sub with a larger would not in any way hurt or hinder the larger sub, but would simply serve to smooth in room response. 

 

  I think the solution would be to simply adjust the gain on the smaller sub so that it is not running out of steam before you get to normal listening level, as the bigger sub would obviously have clean output at much higher spl.
 
#21 ·
Whenever a new thread pops up where the OP complains about underwhelming bass, there's always a rush to recommend sub upgrades. Unless one first has frequency response charts showing what's going on at the MLP, it's just throwing money at a problem without understanding the reason for the disappointment. If the locations of the sub & MLP are such that the MLP is in a big null, then swapping subs won't resolve the problem. If the OP has expectations that upgrading his 12" to a 15" will provide room pressurization in his open floorplan, that's not going to happen. If his curent chart looks great but he's underwhelmed with the LFE after Audyssey EQ's it flat relative to frequencies above the crossover, then he probably won't be much happier with a 15" that's also EQ'ed flat. Measure first, resolve any placement problems, then see if running your current sub hot will provide the impact that you're looking for. If you still have a problem where your current sub runs out of steam too soon (insufficient max SPL) or the low end response isn't deep enough, then investigate upgrades.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobio  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24211150


Almost a year ago I decided to purchase a Rythmik F12 based on many great reviews of the company's subwoofers here on AVS. This is the first sub I've ever owned, and I've been mostly happy with it. However, one thing I didn't take into consideration when making the purchase was the size of my room, and further reading on AVS makes me think that I need more sub for my space, especially since I don't feel the bass the way I want to (lack of room pressurization?).


So, here is the floor plan:





The family room with the TV has sloped ceilings going from 14' - 8'. Including the kitchen area, I calculated ~3000 cubic ft. Based on what I've read on the board about subs "seeing" adjoining spaces, the sub will also need to fill the adjoining living room (4' wide entry between the two areas) that is also 2000-3000 cubic ft (didn't take exact measurements), so let's say 5000-6000 cubic ft total that the sub needs to fill. I'm pretty sure the single F12 is too small.


Since I have no idea how to compare subs based on output and frequency range, or how to use those published measurements to know if it is enough sub for my space, I'm looking for some recommendations. Budget is
 
#23 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24211845


All hail to the Top Dog (FV15HP) of the budget minded subwoofers.


...



-
LOL. Beeman you truly are a subwoofer enabler. That's the first time I think I've ever seen a Rythmik FV15HP called a budget subwoofer. But I guess it is compared to the next step up. 
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass/0_100#post_24214098


LOL. Beeman you truly are a subwoofer enabler. That's the first time I think I've ever seen a Rythmik FV15HP called a budget subwoofer. But I guess it is compared to the next step up.

...



To some, calling the FV15HP a budget minded subwoofer will sound absurd. But as you suggest, the next tier of ID (manufactured) subs are that much more expensive. In my opinion, two FV15HPs in a room, one placed nearfield to the MLP, properly dialed in, will definitely fulfill a person's need for more bass.
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass#post_24214146


...



To some, calling the FV15HP a budget minded subwoofer will sound absurd. But as you suggest, the next tier of ID (manufactured) subs are that much more expensive. In my opinion, two FV15HPs in a room, one placed nearfield to the MLP, properly dialed in, will definitely fulfill a person's need for more bass.

Beeman, you crack me up. I love my FV15HP, but I would never call it a budget minded sub.


To many factors to say what is budget minded to make that blanket statement.


Subs are a luxury. What one can afford to drop on a luxury item varies greatly.


It maybe top dog in its budget range (people will debate that), but best in its range does not make it budget minded.


I say that as your friend.
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac  /t/1511905/help-with-upgrade-options-need-more-bass/0_100#post_24214213


Beeman, you crack me up. I love my FV15HP, but I would never call it a budget minded sub.

No argument, that's why I qualified my comment by saying: "To some, calling the FV15HP a budget minded subwoofer will sound absurd."


My personal philosophy allows me to take poetic license with pretty much anything that qualifies as subjective, a blanket statement, all inclusive, assuming or otherwise. The point, as you suggest, from my perspective, the FV15HP qualifies as a "budget minded" subwoofer and from someone else's perspective, on my part, they're welcome to consider the comment to be a ludicrous comment. And?


As to what qualifies as luxury, above clean water, breathable air, food and shelter, that too is a subjective discussion.


(i would hope a comment made in honesty and fun, won't be flipped into an existential argument)


-
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top