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distribution amp needed for whole house coax cable signal

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I have 2 Dish Network VIP-722k satellite receivers and am trying to combine TV2,(COAX OUTPUT), together and connect 6 TVs to the output. I have a Channel Vision CVT-2/8PIA-II that I tried, and although it amplifies the signal enough to give a great "picture" and sound, when I try to use the UHF remote it won't allow the UHF remote signal to travel back through it to the VIP722k to control the receiver. If I substitute a regular 8 port coax splitter the UHF signal will pass through it and I can control the receiver properly, but the video signal is unacceptable because it's not amplified.
Is there some kind of distribution amplifier that will allow the UHF remote control signal to pass back through it so I can control the receivers, AND amplify the signal so I can get a good video picture?
Thanks,
Snyde
post #2 of 14
So it sounds like you have 2 diplexers with the UHF/VHF outputs combined into a splitter, which feeds the 8-way. Then to put the remote antenna in a different room than the receiver you combine the antenna and tv2 ports from the back of the receiver using a splitter where the tv2 would normally connect to the triplexer. Then normally you would use another splitter to separate the video signal from the remote but if you have 6 tvs and an 8 way splitter you could put the antenna on one of the splitter ports if it's more centralized than the receiver itself.

I'm not sure how much you know about this stuff but would you say that's about how you have it set up now?
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acesat View Post

So it sounds like you have 2 diplexers with the UHF/VHF outputs combined into a splitter, which feeds the 8-way. Then to put the remote antenna in a different room than the receiver you combine the antenna and tv2 ports from the back of the receiver using a splitter where the tv2 would normally connect to the triplexer. Then normally you would use another splitter to separate the video signal from the remote but if you have 6 tvs and an 8 way splitter you could put the antenna on one of the splitter ports if it's more centralized than the receiver itself.

I'm not sure how much you know about this stuff but would you say that's about how you have it set up now?

Thanks for the response! I know a little about this. Yes, that's how I have it set up. Two of the TVs are located in my pole barn approx. 25 feet from the receiver. When I use the 8 way splitter, in this scenario, the UHF remote will control the receiver from the barn, but the picture quality is crappy because of the distance and the unamplified signal. When I substitute the Channel Vision CVT-2/8PIA-II distribution amplifier in place of the 8 way splitter, I get a great picture, but cannot control the receiver from the barn, because I believe something in the distribution amplifier is blocking the UHF remote control signal from getting back to the receivers. I found a way around this, with some signal degradation, by connecting another spitter to the barn lead, and spitting the signal back to the output of the "upstream" splitter the 2 diplexers are connected to, (which is also the input of the distribution amp),allowing the UHF remote signal a path back to the receivers bypassing the distribution amplifier. While this seems to degrade the signal somewhat, the remote can control the receivers from the barn in this configuration. I would like to find an distribution amplifier that would allow the UHF remote control signal to pass through it back to the receivers, without having to use splitters to "bypass" the amplifier. Do you know of any cheap amplifier that would do this? Or, better yet, can this somehow be done without the amplifier? I'm not sure I'm using the correct components, but got the best picture when using the amp.
Thanks,
Snyde
post #4 of 14
So I'm speaking a little out of my area of expertise, but if I had to guess I'd say that the problem lies in the return path of 5-42 mhz being too low for the remote's UHF signal at around 384 mhz. If that were the case then the return path must include frequencies around 384 mhz. As I said I'm out of my comfort zone with amps so I can't really recommend a different amp. Other things to try without buying more equipment would be to split out the antenna before the amp and just put the antenna on that splitter instead of combining it back into the barn cable. That might save 7dB of loss and be close enough for the remote to reach. Any way you can move the antenna closer would help.
Edited by acesat - 1/16/14 at 8:21pm
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acesat View Post

So I'm speaking a little out of my area of expertise, but if I had to guess I'd say that the problem lies in the return path of 5-42 mhz being too low for the remote's UHF signal at around 384 mhz. If that were the case then the return path must include frequencies around 384 mhz. As I said I'm out of my comfort zone with amps so I can't really recommend a different amp. Other things to try without buying more equipment would be to split out the antenna before the amp and just put the antenna on that splitter instead of combining it back into the barn cable. That might save 7dB of loss and be close enough for the remote to reach. Any way you can move the antenna closer would help.

I don't know that much about this subject, so I'm out of my comfort zone too, hence this thread. I thought maybe it was some kind of discreet component in the amp blocking the UHF remote control signal from getting back to the receivers, and was hoping I could find an amp that wouldn't block the signal. Unfortunately there is only 1 coax cable running underground from my house out to the pole barn, I wished now I'd have included 2, and I don't know if it's possible to add another cable in the conduit, underground now without digging it up. I could run a cable from the remote control antenna out on the receivers , and not combine them into a splitter and triplexer on the back of the receivers, like it is now, and then run that cable into the spitter downstream of the amp and directly into the barn cable. I've messed with things a little more since I wrote last, changing a splitter and removing a remote control antenna, and it seems better.
Right now I'm at the point where "perfect is the enemy of good enough", so I'll probably let it go for now. biggrin.gif
Thanks,
Snyde
post #6 of 14
How does the signal from the remote control get to the receiver? From what has been written thus far, it sounds like it gets there via the coax that goes to the outlet. If so, how does it get onto the coax?
post #7 of 14
Ok, I understand the OP's configuration now... He's relocating the RF remote's antenna for better RF reception - that's accomplished with a set of splitter/combiners to piggyback the RF remote signal onto the TV2 coax output. At the far end, the RF antenna (which would otherwise be attached to a port on the Dish receiver) is placed behind a splitter, with the other leg going to TV2.

The issue is that when you place an amplifier in the middle of that, the RF signal won't be passed "upstream" through the amplifier. Split off the RF antenna before the amplifier - place the RF antenna at that location (which hopefully is closer to the pole barn?), and see if the RF remotes work at the furthest TV. If it doesn't work from there - is the amplifier location somewhere you can access to run more coax? Either a second run to the Dish receiver's location (so you can separate the RF remote signal, and insert it onto the amplifier's output to the furthest TV), or extend the RF antenna's location.

Jeff
post #8 of 14
Alright -- if the antenna is being located at the outlet and the remote is running at 384MHz, just connect the TV2 out to the input of a standard drop amp, which runs into the UHF port of a UVSJ. The UVSJ then goes into your distribution splitter, which feeds your outlets.

The VHF port of the UVSJ connects to the INPUT of a second drop amp, with the OUTPUT going to the antenna port on the DVR. At the outlet, use another UVSJ, connecting the antenna to the VHF port and the TV to the UHF port.
post #9 of 14
Nevermind the UVSJs. As they're intended for OTA, the VHF port only goes up to 216MHz. Just use standard 2-way splitters instead. You can still use the UVSJs as bandpass filters for the UHF output of your DVR, but you can't pass the remote through it very well.
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Alright -- if the antenna is being located at the outlet and the remote is running at 384MHz, just connect the TV2 out to the input of a standard drop amp, which runs into the UHF port of a UVSJ. The UVSJ then goes into your distribution splitter, which feeds your outlets.

The VHF port of the UVSJ connects to the INPUT of a second drop amp, with the OUTPUT going to the antenna port on the DVR. At the outlet, use another UVSJ, connecting the antenna to the VHF port and the TV to the UHF port.

UVS huh? No comprende. :-)
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
[quotename="jautor" url="/t/1511996/distribution-amp-needed-for-whole-house-coax-cable-signal#post_24235560"]Ok, I understand the OP's configuration now... He's relocating the RF remote's antenna for better RF reception - that's accomplished with a set of splitter/combiners to piggyback the RF remote signal onto the TV2 coax output. At the far end, the RF antenna (which would otherwise be attached to a port on the Dish receiver) is placed behind a splitter, with the other leg going to TV2. [ /quote]

Exactly!!
Quote:
The issue is that when you place an amplifier in the middle of that, the RF signal won't be passed "upstream" through the amplifier. Split off the RF antenna before the amplifier - place the RF antenna at that location (which hopefully is closer to the pole barn?), and see if the RF remotes work at the furthest TV. If it doesn't work from there - is the amplifier location somewhere you can access to run more coax? Either a second run to the Dish receiver's location (so you can separate the RF remote signal, and insert it onto the amplifier's output to the furthest TV), or extend the RF antenna's location.
Jeff

What I've done, which seems to work ok, is to split the signal before the amp, as you said, and also split the output cable to the barn and connected them together so there is a parallel path, one through the amp and one directly from the input of the amp to the barn lead output from the amp. This allows the remote control signal to bypass the amp and go directly to the receiver. The barn's picture is a little grainy, but I don't know at this point if it's this configuration or if I have a bad cable, or splitter in the mix. I need to troubleshoot it some more, but at least it works and is watchable.
Snyde
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by snydley100 View Post

What I've done, which seems to work ok, is to split the signal before the amp, as you said, and also split the output cable to the barn and connected them together so there is a parallel path, one through the amp and one directly from the input of the amp to the barn lead output from the amp. This allows the remote control signal to bypass the amp and go directly to the receiver. The barn's picture is a little grainy, but I don't know at this point if it's this configuration or if I have a bad cable, or splitter in the mix. I need to troubleshoot it some more, but at least it works and is watchable.
Snyde

Yeah, I thought about that but would be concerned that the re-combination of the original signal with the amplified version of same would cause interference. Try leaving all the splitters in place, but disconnect the bypass, and see if the picture in the barn improves - if it does, that's the re-combination causing the interference...

Did you try placing the RF antenna at the distribution point and see if the RF remote is within range? Instead of trying to run it all way to the barn?
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by snydley100 View Post

UVS huh? No comprende. :-)
A UVSJ has a UHF port, a VHF port, and a combined port. looks like a 2-way splitter, but rather than split the whole bandwidth into 2 outputs, it separates the UHF frequencies from the VHF frequencies and sends them out their respective ports. It's also used to combine UHF signals with VHF signals. One of the big advantages to utilizing UVSJs instead of splitters in certain applications is there is a much lower insertion loss through a UVSJ than through a 2-way splitter.

They are also often used as a high-pass or low-pass filter. Put a terminator on the VHF port, and all that will pass through the thing is UHF.

It would be ideal for your application if the VHF port went up to 400MHz or your remote control was down below 170MHz.
post #14 of 14
I think the best solution will be something like what is described above where you separate the antenna from the video fed into the amp, and instead of combining back into the barn line, just leave the antenna at the home run, or even run a cable as close as you can to the barn. Not sure what kind of place you have, if you have a finished basement or if it's possible to run a cable even to a window that might pick up the signal easier than through other materials.to combine the antenna signal back into the barn line and split it back out requires 2 extra splitters or 7 db which could be the source of the grainy picture. The idea is that if you can just move the antenna closer it doesn't have to be in the same room, if it works from the homerun then you dont need the extra splitters.

Either way I know exactly what you're trying to do, it's possible, and I've done it many times for people, but I absolutely hate mirroring signals. Our contracts don't pay to hook up TVs, they pay to hook up receivers. I've hooked up 10 TVs using 2 722's and it paid the same as hooking up 4 TVs but took 4 hours instead of 2.5. I'm glad you're taking the initiative to do it yourself because I think the only people that deserve mirroring signals like that are the ones that can understand how it works and the limitations involved. My sales people use them as a closing tool "We can hook up extra TVs for free" and I can't stand it. The lay person doesn't understand what they mean and wonder why 3 TVs show the same thing and they only have 1 remote. If you can ask around and troubleshoot it yourself, and don't expect more than the system was designed to do, then I say go for it. It makes sense for some people, but doing all that extra work I have to charge extra or take a huge pay cut. But unlike any other industry, everywhere you look it's advertised as free. I've had people ask to leave a couple hundred feet of cable because it says it's included in the install. Don't be that guy [/rant]
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