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Yamaha RX-V773WA RX-V820 HTR-7065 pre-out voltage

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thinking of getting an external amp to power the Front L/R but need to make sure the zone1 pre-out voltage from my RX-V773WA matches the external amplifier's input sensitivity. I called Yamaha tech support but first level support did not have the information and I haven't yet received an answer from their Tier-2 support. The manual only has a spec for the sub-woofer output level (1V).

In general, if you are running an external amplifier with your RX-V773WA/RX-A820/HTR-7065, then please chime in and share your setup/experience.

Thanks.
post #2 of 13
Probably very similar to RX-A1010 whose pre-out voltage has been measured:

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/rx-a1010/rx-a1010-measurements

"I did some quick spot-checking on the RX-A1010 pre-amplifier gain structure to ensure it could properly drive a wide assortment of power amplifiers. My personal criteria for amplifier gain structure is that it should be able to hit full power when driven with 2Vrms. The RX-A1010 was able to deliver 2.8Vrms unclipped out of the analog multi channel outputs."

There appears to exist a widespread myth that Yamaha receivers have low or inadequate pre-out voltage, and could therefore be problematic with external amplifiers. Perhaps, that was the case some time ago; however, it definitely does not hold true today.

You may also want to consider Parasound amps (e.g., Halo A23) because they have gain controls that will allow you integrate your pre-pro well. If you are willing to consider pro amps (e.g., Crown XLS drive core series) they all come with gain controls.

I suspect strongly that you will be just fine with the majority of external stereo power amps.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Probably very similar to RX-A1010 whose pre-out voltage has been measured:

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/rx-a1010/rx-a1010-measurements

"I did some quick spot-checking on the RX-A1010 pre-amplifier gain structure to ensure it could properly drive a wide assortment of power amplifiers. My personal criteria for amplifier gain structure is that it should be able to hit full power when driven with 2Vrms. The RX-A1010 was able to deliver 2.8Vrms unclipped out of the analog multi channel outputs."

There appears to exist a widespread myth that Yamaha receivers have low or inadequate pre-out voltage, and could therefore be problematic with external amplifiers. Perhaps, that was the case some time ago; however, it definitely does not hold true today.

You may also want to consider Parasound amps (e.g., Halo A23) because they have gain controls that will allow you integrate your pre-pro well. If you are willing to consider pro amps (e.g., Crown XLS drive core series) they all come with gain controls.

I suspect strongly that you will be just fine with the majority of external stereo power amps.

Thanks for responding to my post. I decided to take matters in to my own hands and got some rough measurements. Haven't had a chance to work the oscilloscope yet.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449409/the-official-yamaha-rx-v773-thread/570#post_24226240
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Apparently not!!

Thank you for your inquiry. The max voltage output is 1 volt.

Best Regards,
The Yamaha Customer Support Team
P.S. Please do not remove the " [ref: " in the Email Subject when replying to this email.
Application/Technical Support
Model: RX-V773WA
Hi,

Can you please let me know the maximum output voltage from the pre-out terminals for zone1? I am trying to connect a power amplifier to the RX-V773WA and need to match pre-out voltage from the RX-773WA to the power amplifier.

Thanks,
post #5 of 13
That spec (although not labeled maximum output voltage) does exist in the manual (Page 130) where it refers to the subwoofer output level: 1V/1.2kOhm. It is almost certainly wrong as far maximum subwoofer output voltage, which should be several times higher. I would also be really surprised if the maximum output voltage at pre-out terminals really is 1V (at clipping). It is much more likely that your receiver will output at least 2V in peaks before clipping. Hope you manage to sort this out fairly quickly. It is possible that Yamaha customer support team provided you with inaccurate information.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjavs View Post

Thanks for responding to my post. I decided to take matters in to my own hands and got some rough measurements. Haven't had a chance to work the oscilloscope yet.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449409/the-official-yamaha-rx-v773-thread/570#post_24226240

Were you able to confirm the voltage by measurement?
post #7 of 13
Using RX-v773wa to drive 4 - 80wpc amps sections on a NAD T754 with bad surround pre-outs. The Yamaha L and R pre outs are "Y" to two channels, each, for the four stacked main front speakers. This was done to keep speaker loads to 6 Ohm each per pair as each speaker has own 80WPC amp. The NAD will cost $400 to repair so owner wanted to put 4 of the six amps to work and use the Yamaha for center and surrounds. The owner still favors the 45lb toroid x-former NAD sound over the Yamaha but will use the Yamaha HDMI to upgrade his video suite.

Sounds very good but now chasing faint ground fault noise when NAD connected to Yamaha in any pre-out configuration, either single or multiple. YPAO gave three different gain settings depending on config with the "Y" cord having higher gain. This may account for the reduced pre-out voltages when driving two instead of one input. The next week will determine if owner will keep this configuration or look elsewhere. The two amps per side, a quasi bi-amp, does sound a bit better as opposed single amp and parallel speakers per side.

cheers
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Were you able to confirm the voltage by measurement?

No, never got around to using my oscilloscope but I did plug in a Crown XLS-1500 to the LR pre-outs on my Yamaha and I am pretty happy with the results.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidell View Post

Using RX-v773wa to drive 4 - 80wpc amps sections on a NAD T754 with bad surround pre-outs. The Yamaha L and R pre outs are "Y" to two channels, each, for the four stacked main front speakers. This was done to keep speaker loads to 6 Ohm each per pair as each speaker has own 80WPC amp. The NAD will cost $400 to repair so owner wanted to put 4 of the six amps to work and use the Yamaha for center and surrounds. The owner still favors the 45lb toroid x-former NAD sound over the Yamaha but will use the Yamaha HDMI to upgrade his video suite.

Sounds very good but now chasing faint ground fault noise when NAD connected to Yamaha in any pre-out configuration, either single or multiple. YPAO gave three different gain settings depending on config with the "Y" cord having higher gain. This may account for the reduced pre-out voltages when driving two instead of one input. The next week will determine if owner will keep this configuration or look elsewhere. The two amps per side, a quasi bi-amp, does sound a bit better as opposed single amp and parallel speakers per side.

cheers

I had almost the same problem driving a older T761, I had a noise also with both my V765 and V773. I attempted to compensate by turning up the Yamaha and used the NAD to control volume. Doing so I discovered a different issue. Feel free to see the details here.
post #10 of 13
Yamaha usa av tech support is just people reading from the manual. These receivers are designed in Japan.
Only they know the answers to the hard core technical questions. The front, center & surround preouts have
enough voltage to drive external amplifiers. The problem is the internal amps stay active and cause the receiver
to shut down at volume levels way below maximum even with all channels driven externally. What has a bigger
effect is using an external subwoofer (x.1) and/or setting speakers to small instead of large.

The impedance and sensitivity of the speakers do matter, but the receiver still shut off at maximum volume
using all external amps (5.1). The speakers were extremely loud (110+db) when that max shutdown occurred.
The only thing I didn't try was booting the receiver in the lower impedance setting. Not willing to damage speakers
and my hearing any more to try that. If you need 120db or louder output the 1020 may be the better option.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

Yamaha usa av tech support is just people reading from the manual. These receivers are designed in Japan.
Only they know the answers to the hard core technical questions. The front, center & surround preouts have
enough voltage to drive external amplifiers. The problem is the internal amps stay active and cause the receiver
to shut down at volume levels way below maximum even with all channels driven externally. What has a bigger
effect is using an external subwoofer (x.1) and/or setting speakers to small instead of large.

The impedance and sensitivity of the speakers do matter, but the receiver still shut off at maximum volume
using all external amps (5.1). The speakers were extremely loud (110+db) when that max shutdown occurred.
The only thing I didn't try was booting the receiver in the lower impedance setting. Not willing to damage speakers
and my hearing any more to try that. If you need 120db or louder output the 1020 may be the better option.

I've had the unit shutdown on me once when I had no load attached, only a multi-meter on a pre-out to measure voltage. I turned up volume control all the way up and it went "click". I thought I had over-driven the inputs (test tone I was putting in via my iPhone's headphone out to the AVR's Audio-1 input).

I would switch to a pure pre-amp like Emotiva UMC-200 but I don't want to buy an external amp for the surrounds - seems like a waste of money.
post #12 of 13
Like tony.tam I was able to get it to shut down repeatedly when playing the loud
bass note explosions in Iron Man 3. But nothing at true normal use listening levels
that would concern me. Not designed to blast out a huge auditorium. Clearly
designed for most speakers set to small and a subwoofer attached. Pretty much
how I use receivers. It never did distort or clip before shutting down.
post #13 of 13
The shutdown is easy to trigger when you drive it to extreme. If you really want to avoid the issue you can pretty much go to any other manufacture and will not experience it without needing to go to a true pre-amp. In real world use you probably will not encounter it much. I just happen to have 2 pieces that did not play so nicely together. I just used the iPhone and a dB app and measured it to max out at 101 dB, but I don't think it was accurate. That was set at +10 for me on Iron Man 3 and my ears were starting to ring even with ear plugs in.
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