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50 years since the Beatles changed most everything - Page 2

post #31 of 162
The very first record I purchased (not even in my teens yet) was "A Hard Days Night." I still have it over 50 years later.

My biggest woe is that I would like to get digitized Beatle music and cannot figure out which really is a worthy buy. I know there are the Mono and Stereo versions of many songs but also that there are differences in the mastering and re-mastering including changes in the mixing of the songs.

Is there any place that has some answers on this. I am sure it would probably be a mix purchase with some being mono, some being re-mastered stereo and some being a 2nd round of re-mastering. I have the "Love" DVD that I was able to extract the audio and play and it is great on the ears.

Any help would be appreciated. In the meanwhile I have all sorts of CDs of the Beatles but no way to tell if the ones I have are the "good ones to get." Thanks in advance.
post #32 of 162
My big complaint with vinyl (and yeah, I go way back) is it's inherent ability to pick up pops and cracks and whatnot.
Basically, it wears out over time.
These are things CDs, etc. do NOT suffer from.

I had a huge collection of vinyl back-in-the-day.
My strategy was the first time it hit my turntable it was recorded to tape, essentially keeping the vinyl as "pristine" as possible.
However, tape wears out too and I would find myself back to square one.

With the right equipment, discs can sound pretty damn good....and last forever.
post #33 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

.... Have the (butcher) vinyl but like others, ripped the cover off to see if I got the one with the new cover glues over old cover..mad.gif

I had the paste-over and peeled the "new" cover off as soon as I learned of the possibility way back when. I loaned the album to the girl-next-door (literally) and she proceeded to lend it to a girlfriend of hers. Guess what? mad.gif
post #34 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

My big complaint with vinyl (and yeah, I go way back) is it's inherent ability to pick up pops and cracks and whatnot.
Basically, it wears out over time.
These are things CDs, etc. do NOT suffer from.

I had a huge collection of vinyl back-in-the-day.
My strategy was the first time it hit my turntable it was recorded to tape, essentially keeping the vinyl as "pristine" as possible.
However, tape wears out too and I would find myself back to square one.

With the right equipment, discs can sound pretty damn good....and last forever.

I had a similiar strategy: First I played a new album with my cheap headshell/cartridge to 'clean the grooves'. Then I played it with my expensive headshell/cartridge/needle. Then I played it once more to record it onto cassette. Then back into the album cover to never be played again; I've got dozens of LPs that have only been played 3 times. I've still got my turntable and headshells/cartridges/needles but, even though I did it literally thousands of times, I've forgotten how to balance the tonearm...damn CRS.

My brother was an early CD adopter and would give me CDs on every gift-giving occasion proclaiming their superiority over LPs. As the LP bigot I was, by the time I actutally bought my first CD player, I owned over 30 CDs. Of course, now I recognize the CDs superiority over LPs...especially in MP3 format biggrin.gif
post #35 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_Tee View Post

I had a similiar strategy: First I played a new album with my cheap headshell/cartridge to 'clean the grooves'.
Huh, I have never heard of "cleaning the grooves."
Why would that be necessary?confused.gif
post #36 of 162
Anyone going to the Fest for Beatles this weekend? Going Saturday night.. http://www.thefest.com/
post #37 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_Tee View Post

Of course, now I recognize the CDs superiority over LPs...especially in MP3 format biggrin.gif

Unless you're Neil Young who has said on a number of occasions that the MP3 format sucks! wink.gif
post #38 of 162
Hey taxman48,
Right now I plan to be at the Fest on Saturday as well . As long as the weather holds up. I'm coming from MD, and plan on meeting my daughter at the show. The last Beatlefest
show I went to was back in 1976, when they were held in NYC, and not the Meadowlands. Should be a good show. Or a splendid time is guaranteed for all?
Sorry..had to.
post #39 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Huh, I have never heard of "cleaning the grooves."
Why would that be necessary?confused.gif



There is a bunch of residue and little bits of vinyl left over from the manufacturing process. It's one of (but not the only) reasons you would get pops and clicks on brand new vinyl. In old days some people would clean the grooves before serious listening. Nowadays there are record cleaning machines that do a much better job.
post #40 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

There is a bunch of residue and little bits of vinyl left over from the manufacturing process. It's one of (but not the only) reasons you would get pops and clicks on brand new vinyl. In old days some people would clean the grooves before serious listening. Nowadays there are record cleaning machines that do a much better job.
Interesting...thanx for the education.smile.gif
post #41 of 162
I never had a chance to try it, but supposedly a good EQ could eliminate the hiss and pops; YMMV. I've also heard about playing an LP that was "moistened" to get a good capture to tape/CD, but never tried that, either.
post #42 of 162
There is software that will remove a good portion of hiss and pop when transferring vinyl to digital. It takes a bit of work but actually works quite well, at least on transfers I've heard.
post #43 of 162
I don't know what tech is available now, but back-in-the-day there was something Dolby (I think) developed for removing the pops, hiss, etc.
Unfortunately, it also removed some of the high frequencies too.
Wouldn't be surprised if there are better solutions now.
post #44 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Huh, I have never heard of "cleaning the grooves."
Why would that be necessary?confused.gif

To remove the slight imperfections left by the pressing process for the vinyl. Those imperfections caused pops and other undesired noises when encountered by the stylus. Trick taught to me by a local radio DJ. Probably only important if you had good enough equipment to make those noises noticeable. Aah, I see ti-triodes provided a much better explanation than me.

Also bought the half-speed mastered LPs when I could; those physically were a lot thicker than regular LPs and supposedly provided much greater fidelity than regular LPs. They really did sound better to me, but lots of other more informed people than me said it was just a gimmick to separate audio snobs from their money biggrin.gif
Edited by Willie_Tee - 2/7/14 at 7:58am
post #45 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_Tee View Post

Also bought the half-speed mastered LPs when I could; those physically were a lot thicker than regular LPs and supposedly provided much greater fidelity than regular LPs. They really did sound better to me,
Hmmm, another thing I was unaware of or have forgotten.

Quote:
but lots of other more informed people than me said it was just a gimmick to separate audio snobs from their money biggrin.gif
People say the same thing about SACD vs. CD and lossy vs. lossless BD soundtracks.
I guess they don't have ears....wink.gif
post #46 of 162
^^^^ yeah I don't know about the "informed" people. When I was transferring the half-speed masters to metal tape I would play my "regular" vinyl and then play the half-speed and the difference in the audio fidelity was considerably better with the half-speeds. Granted, they were being handled better (I was told by the owner to use cotton gloves when handling) and hadn't been played as much as my regular vinyl but still, they sounded MUCH better.
post #47 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

^^^^ yeah I don't know about the "informed" people. When I was transferring the half-speed masters to metal tape I would play my "regular" vinyl and then play the half-speed and the difference in the audio fidelity was considerably better with the half-speeds. Granted, they were being handled better (I was told by the owner to use cotton gloves when handling) and hadn't been played as much as my regular vinyl but still, they sounded MUCH better.
The ears don't lie.wink.gif
post #48 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

I never had a chance to try it, but supposedly a good EQ could eliminate the hiss and pops; YMMV. I've also heard about playing an LP that was "moistened" to get a good capture to tape/CD, but never tried that, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

There is software that will remove a good portion of hiss and pop when transferring vinyl to digital. It takes a bit of work but actually works quite well, at least on transfers I've heard.




There is nothing in the digital realm that will do this without removing some of the original recording.
post #49 of 162
Because the Bugs played backup for Little Richard and a few others, speaks to the testament of their talent. But the "invasion" was merely them stepping out on their own.

Fast-forward 50 years, and you have One Direction attempting a similiar feat, but they really don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the Fab Four.
post #50 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post


There is nothing in the digital realm that will do this without removing some of the original recording.

That is very true. But on a badly scratched and popping vinyl, the digital "scrubbing" can at least render it very listenable. Especially if you can't replace the vinyl.
post #51 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

That is very true. But on a badly scratched and popping vinyl, the digital "scrubbing" can at least render it very listenable. Especially if you can't replace the vinyl.
I loved my vinyl back-in-the-day, but I HATED the pops, scratches, clicks, etc.
NO recording artist ever scored for them in their compositions...
That stuff were simply a barrier or curtain over the music, the art.
post #52 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_Tee View Post


My brother was an early CD adopter and would give me CDs on every gift-giving occasion proclaiming their superiority over LPs. As the LP bigot I was, by the time I actutally bought my first CD player, I owned over 30 CDs. Of course, now I recognize the CDs superiority over LPs...especially in MP3 format biggrin.gif

Like vinyl, all CDs are not created equal.

I've replaced many of my favorite LPs with CDs. So a few years ago I did a test where I compared the two, and found some CDs sounded better than vinyl, and some where the vinyl sounded better than the CDs. While not scientific, I was really surprised at the difference.

As much fun as it is to reminisce about what you had to go through to listen to LPs, CDs sure make the process at lot easier, especially after a few drinks when you'd accidentally bump into the turntable stand, or the coordination just wasn't there.

One regret I have is not replacing my needle more often. I think my records would have held up better if I weren't so frugal when it came to replacing a needle. But we didn't have the Internet where we could learn from the audiophiles. Needle In a Haystack was a dream to visit. And with the cost of some of those needles, that was all it was; a dream. smile.gif
post #53 of 162
A few years ago I bought a new Rega P-3 turntable and got back into vinyl in a big way. What I discovered was in the intervening 25 or 30 years since I Iast had a record player, the entire niche had changed. By the early 80's vinyl records had gotten really cheap and the quality had gone waaaay downhill when they were finally replaced by CD's. Some people blame Elvis for that. Seriously! They had to ramp up production of records so fast to meet the demand, they started making them cheaper and flimsier, using poorer quality vinyl which had lots of impurities and entrained air bubbles. I don't know if I blame The King, but there's no question the quality of records had greatly diminished.

Most of the "pops" you hear in those old albums aren't specks of dust at all. They're tiny little explosions. When the stylus is dragged through a record groove it builds up a pressure wave in front of it. When that pressure wave encounters a weak point in the groove wall due to an entrained air bubble behind it, it literally blows a tiny hole in the groove wall, releasing that air bubble. You hear that as a "pop".

With the advent of digital CD's, vinyl records retreated to a niche audiophile market. Those guys demanded better quality and were prepared to pay for it. The new 180 and 200 gram vinyl albums are of much higher quality and cost accordingly - around $30-40 in most cases (albums had dropped to around $5 by the time CD's replaced them). The vinyl they use today is of a much higher, purer quality and there are no entrained air bubbles. As a result, the pops and hiss that used to be so prevelent are virtually non-existent. Played on a modern high-end turntable with a good-quality cartridge, they are nearly as quiet in terms of background noise as CD's now.

When I bought my new turntable I also bought a record cleaning machine - they're not that expensive - and I clean every new album I buy before I play it the first time to get all the little plastic specs and mold release compound out of them and make them totally clean for playing. Because the vinyl is so high-quality now, I don't worry about them degrading every time they're played, as we used to. I play them as often as I want now and they always sound great.

Which leads me to the best part of the story. They do sound better, IMO. You're hearing the entire analog sine curve with nothing filtered out or left out by digital sampling. Some people will say Bah!, you can't hear the difference. But I know better. wink.gif There is a "warmth" and a kind of 3-D soundstage to a vinyl album that really can't be replicated with the digital facsimile. I have hi-rez recordings too, both SACD and DVD-A. While they're an improvement over CD's, the vinyl versions still sound better to me. The argument rages on in the high-end audiophile forums, but it rages without my participation. I'm happy with my ancient analog technology and I'm convinced it's superior. smile.gif
post #54 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Absolutely agree about vinyl. The warmth and presence just can't be beat. Especially if it was mastered well. Some of the Japanese imports (I have a really nice Rolling Stones boxed set vinyl, half speed) sound fantastic. I have a rather large vinyl collection from the 60's just sitting in the closet gathering dust. I've often thought about getting one of those USB turntables with built-in amp (I think) to transfer some of my vinyl to digital.

You don't need one of those contraptions if you still have a record player or can borrow one. Just a laptop with the appropriate software and a small hardware interface that will translate the analog two-channel signal from your turntable to a digital stream the software will recognize. I used the "Eye-TV" device and "Final Vinyl" software to transfer all my brother-in-law's old albums - which he had given to me because I bought a new turntable - to CD's in MP3 format as X-mas presents. Got me through several years without having to buy him anything, and he appreciated it a lot more than another tie or book. tongue.gif
post #55 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Like vinyl, all CDs are not created equal.

I've replaced many of my favorite LPs with CDs. So a few years ago I did a test where I compared the two, and found some CDs sounded better than vinyl, and some where the vinyl sounded better than the CDs. While not scientific, I was really surprised at the difference.
This is very, very true.

Newer CDs can sound really fantastic IMO.
I have compared some to earlier SACD and DVD-Audio disks I have and they often acquit themselves well.

Quote:
As much fun as it is to reminisce about what you had to go through to listen to LPs, CDs sure make the process at lot easier
CDs are especially useful for me in a vehicle.
I usually have one going, particularly when I am solo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Some people blame Elvis, I don't know if I blame The King
I always do....every time the wife asks "Aren't you done yet?"

Quote:
Most of the "pops" you hear in those old albums aren't specks of dust at all. They're tiny little explosions. When the stylus is dragged through a record groove it builds up a pressure wave in front of it. When that pressure wave encounters a weak point in the groove wall due to an entrained air bubble behind it, it literally blows a tiny hole in the groove wall, releasing that air bubble. You hear that as a "pop".
I can't believe I learned something from you...

Quote:
I have hi-rez recordings too, both SACD and DVD-A. While they're an improvement over CD's, the vinyl versions still sound better to me. The argument rages on in the high-end audiophile forums, but it rages without my participation. I'm happy with my ancient analog technology and I'm convinced it's superior. smile.gif
What did I tell you about drinking before 5PM, you Luddite?!?tongue.gif
post #56 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post



One regret I have is not replacing my needle more often. I think my records would have held up better if I weren't so frugal when it came to replacing a needle. But we didn't have the Internet where we could learn from the audiophiles. Needle In a Haystack was a dream to visit. And with the cost of some of those needles, that was all it was; a dream. smile.gif

All true. The last cartridge I replaced, and still have it, was a Shure V15 Type IV. Nice cartridge, and affordable. At least for me at the time.
post #57 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

You don't need one of those contraptions if you still have a record player or can borrow one. Just a laptop with the appropriate software and a small hardware interface that will translate the analog two-channel signal from your turntable to a digital stream the software will recognize. I used the "Eye-TV" device and "Final Vinyl" software to transfer all my brother-in-law's old albums - which he had given to me because I bought a new turntable - to CD's in MP3 format as X-mas presents. Got me through several years without having to buy him anything, and he appreciated it a lot more than another tie or book. tongue.gif

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking of. Being as I gave my turntable to my daughter though I'd have to buy a new one. Might as well get one that makes the transfer to the laptop as easy as possible.
post #58 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking of. Being as I gave my turntable to my daughter though I'd have to buy a new one. Might as well get one that makes the transfer to the laptop as easy as possible.

Nonsense. Get a new one so you can listen to those old records again, and buy some new ones!
post #59 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post


I can't believe I learned something from you...
What did I tell you about drinking before 5PM, you Luddite?!?tongue.gif

I am a veritabe fount of useful information! Or useless, if you believe my wife. And we luddites only drink root beer before 5; afterwards: grog! Og like grog.
post #60 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I am a veritabe fount of useful information! Or useless, if you believe my wife.
Ms. Oink says I am the Biggest Bore Boar she has ever seen.
I give her 100 bucks every time I hear it too.

Quote:
And we luddites only drink root beer before 5
OK, this explains a lot....
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