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MartySub Flatpacks - Page 22

post #631 of 2456
"can you simulate how 8 of my sealed flat packs with SI 18's compare with 2 of these Marty cubes?"

hey carp,

if you are thinking about repurposing your drivers, marty isn't the only option. designing up another large low-tuned custom super system might be kind of fun. :-) although, you could always just copy what 'not did!

instead of different numbers of different subs, here is 1 of each. all with 1100 watts.

there are no filters applied here. this is just raw response.

3.75 cu ft sealed, martycube, and full size marty (tuned to 17hz, though you could go 16, 15, or even a hair lower if you wanted a little extra extension in exchange for a db or so of output just above the tuning frequency).

each time that you double the number of cabs (and power of course), just add +6db across the entire curve.

four subs would be +12db across the entire curve.

eight subs would be +18db across the entire curve.



these are of course model results. Donny did some measurements and finds that they are reasonably accurate for what can be expected +/- a db or two here and there.

as for the orbit shifter, it is probably rolling off very fast under 25hz or so because in that region it is pretty much just a sealed sub. of course the top end is fully loaded horn, so that spl would be very high. a full martysub will have more lowend cab for cab.
post #632 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Holy smokes this thread is huge..."

Donny (Chaluga) is on FIRE!
eru7a2at.jpg
post #633 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hey John,

can you simulate how 8 of my sealed flat packs with SI 18's compare with 2 of these Marty cubes? I'm guessing that around the tune of the ported subs they will be pretty close?

Maybe throw in 2 of the full Marty's for comparison?


Sorry to be all pushy... smile.gif

Just curious.

Maybe I should go to 8 Marty Cubes.... or 8 Marty Subs. eek.gif



Ehhh, in reality I think if I ever made a change it would be to dual Orbit Shifters upfront and some "smoothing" subs in back. However, I LOVE how well music is dialed in currently with my sealed subs, 6 in front and 2 in the back of the room and hate to mess with that. Who am I kidding, someday I will mess with that.... biggrin.gif

Sorry for the hijack,

Can you relate your experience with seeing the SI-24?
post #634 of 2456
do you have a link for the software and the screenshots


Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Just ordered a Behringer inure NU6000DSP from sweetwater.com, hoping you don't need a degree to set this unit up...."

you can download the software for free from the site. very easy to use. there are screenshots of how to enter things such as the high pass filter if for some reason you get stuck or something isn't clear.
post #635 of 2456
So do you have a choice between the PEQ and DEQ, and just use one? I plan on reading extensively on these two to figure it out but if one is better for subs and you don't really need both I don't want to waste time reading about it until I need it.
post #636 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"can you simulate how 8 of my sealed flat packs with SI 18's compare with 2 of these Marty cubes?"

hey carp,

if you are thinking about repurposing your drivers, marty isn't the only option. designing up another large low-tuned custom super system might be kind of fun. :-) although, you could always just copy what 'not did!

instead of different numbers of different subs, here is 1 of each. all with 1100 watts.

there are no filters applied here. this is just raw response.

3.75 cu ft sealed, martycube, and full size marty (tuned to 17hz, though you could go 16, 15, or even a hair lower if you wanted a little extra extension in exchange for a db or so of output just above the tuning frequency).

each time that you double the number of cabs (and power of course), just add +6db across the entire curve.

four subs would be +12db across the entire curve.

eight subs would be +18db across the entire curve.



these are of course model results. Donny did some measurements and finds that they are reasonably accurate for what can be expected +/- a db or two here and there.

as for the orbit shifter, it is probably rolling off very fast under 25hz or so because in that region it is pretty much just a sealed sub. of course the top end is fully loaded horn, so that spl would be very high. a full martysub will have more lowend cab for cab.


Thanks!!!

Ok, so 2 Marty Subs would have 124 db's at 20hz and 8 of my subs would be 126 at 20hz.

2 Marty Cubes would have 118 db's at 20hz.

8 Marty Cubes would have 130 db's at 20hz.

8 Marty Subs would have 136 dbs at 20hz. Holy Sh*t. Seriously, I mean holy sh*t. cool.gif I've registered into the mid 130's max not peak on the omnimic before but it sure as hell wasn't at 20hz.


The longer I have the sealed sub setup the more I know that below 15hz doesn't mean anything in my room. I want to reiterate - IN MY ROOM. All it does is rattle the hell out of my room but gives no feel, or very little, at all of the seating positions. The seats on the riser get a little more feel but still not worth worrying about.

Not only have I realized that 15-25 hz is so much fun with shaking the hell out of the couch and me, but maybe the stuff way above 25hz is crucial too. I've had an Orbit Shifter in here and it is tactile and slams in a way that no other setup I've heard to date can do. The ice field scene in Thor is a great example. I recently heard a OS at jedimastergrants house and the brute tactle feel of the hammer smashing through the heads of the ice dudes at just 5 db's hot crushes my room at 5 db's hot. I can get the same feel but I have to be so hot on the subs that it doesn't sound right.

My point is that the OS must be hitting at higher frequncies for that brutal feel that is so cool. I think the best of both worlds would be that higher bass brutality of the OS combined with the 15-25hz output were looking at here with 8 Marty's to shake the ever lovin' crap out of the couches and people.

I can see why people go with G-Horns and Othorns, that would do it too I'm sure.


So many great options out there.

Sorry Donny for the derail... I tend to ramble about my setup and day-dreams way more than people care to read. redface.gifsmile.gif
post #637 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cessna1466u View Post

So do you have a choice between the PEQ and DEQ, and just use one? I plan on reading extensively on these two to figure it out but if one is better for subs and you don't really need both I don't want to waste time reading about it until I need it.

Peq is what you want. Deq is dynamic and is like the dynamic eq on a receiver . It levels bass compared to volume
post #638 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"can you simulate how 8 of my sealed flat packs with SI 18's compare with 2 of these Marty cubes?"

hey carp,

if you are thinking about repurposing your drivers, marty isn't the only option. designing up another large low-tuned custom super system might be kind of fun. :-) although, you could always just copy what 'not did!

instead of different numbers of different subs, here is 1 of each. all with 1100 watts.

there are no filters applied here. this is just raw response.

3.75 cu ft sealed, martycube, and full size marty (tuned to 17hz, though you could go 16, 15, or even a hair lower if you wanted a little extra extension in exchange for a db or so of output just above the tuning frequency).

each time that you double the number of cabs (and power of course), just add +6db across the entire curve.

four subs would be +12db across the entire curve.

eight subs would be +18db across the entire curve.



these are of course model results. Donny did some measurements and finds that they are reasonably accurate for what can be expected +/- a db or two here and there.

as for the orbit shifter, it is probably rolling off very fast under 25hz or so because in that region it is pretty much just a sealed sub. of course the top end is fully loaded horn, so that spl would be very high. a full martysub will have more lowend cab for cab.


Thanks!!!

Ok, so 2 Marty Subs would have 124 db's at 20hz and 8 of my subs would be 126 at 20hz.

2 Marty Cubes would have 118 db's at 20hz.

8 Marty Cubes would have 130 db's at 20hz.

8 Marty Subs would have 136 dbs at 20hz. Holy Sh*t. Seriously, I mean holy sh*t. cool.gif I've registered into the mid 130's max not peak on the omnimic before but it sure as hell wasn't at 20hz.


The longer I have the sealed sub setup the more I know that below 15hz doesn't mean anything in my room. I want to reiterate - IN MY ROOM. All it does is rattle the hell out of my room but gives no feel, or very little, at all of the seating positions. The seats on the riser get a little more feel but still not worth worrying about.

Not only have I realized that 15-25 hz is so much fun with shaking the hell out of the couch and me, but maybe the stuff way above 25hz is crucial too. I've had an Orbit Shifter in here and it is tactile and slams in a way that no other setup I've heard to date can do. The ice field scene in Thor is a great example. I recently heard a OS at jedimastergrants house and the brute tactle feel of the hammer smashing through the heads of the ice dudes at just 5 db's hot crushes my room at 5 db's hot. I can get the same feel but I have to be so hot on the subs that it doesn't sound right.

My point is that the OS must be hitting at higher frequncies for that brutal feel that is so cool. I think the best of both worlds would be that higher bass brutality of the OS combined with the 15-25hz output were looking at here with 8 Marty's to shake the ever lovin' crap out of the couches and people.

I can see why people go with G-Horns and Othorns, that would do it too I'm sure.


So many great options out there.

Sorry Donny for the derail... I tend to ramble about my setup and day-dreams way more than people care to read. redface.gifsmile.gif
No worries cool.gif
I learn from your comparisons
post #639 of 2456
Because I think it matters for those who care about 10-22hz, I redid with HP filters and driver inductance. 1100 watts and same colors. Cube has 20hz and full marty has 18hz. sealed has no filter.


post #640 of 2456
Can you do the same graphs for uxl-18 @ 2200 & 2800 watts for both Marty subs??
post #641 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hey John,

can you simulate how 8 of my sealed flat packs with SI 18's compare with 2 of these Marty cubes? I'm guessing that around the tune of the ported subs they will be pretty close?

Maybe throw in 2 of the full Marty's for comparison?


Sorry to be all pushy... smile.gif

Just curious.

Maybe I should go to 8 Marty Cubes.... or 8 Marty Subs. eek.gif



Ehhh, in reality I think if I ever made a change it would be to dual Orbit Shifters upfront and some "smoothing" subs in back. However, I LOVE how well music is dialed in currently with my sealed subs, 6 in front and 2 in the back of the room and hate to mess with that. Who am I kidding, someday I will mess with that.... biggrin.gif

Carp, why not split them up? Keep four sealed and switch four over to Marty Cubes? Man that would be a lot of output!
post #642 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogger99 View Post

do you have a link for the software and the screenshots

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU6000DSP.aspx

Just scroll down to "remote connect software" and download it.
post #643 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Carp, why not split them up? Keep four sealed and switch four over to Marty Cubes? Man that would be a lot of output!

Not a bad idea.... smile.gif

I think if I did it 4 full Marty's would be better.
Also, in my experience mixing sealed and ported can work fine as long as you put a 48 db slope at tuning of the sealed subs so I bet it would work.

Still, I think I'm always going to dream about Orbit Shifters.... they just have a different slam to them.


None of this can happen until I go AT though.
post #644 of 2456
"Still, I think I'm always going to dream about Orbit Shifters.... they just have a different slam to them."

they have a dramatically different native frequency response, with a big rising top end that is more than ten times the sensitivity as a martysub.

however, in one or archaea's blind tests, folks couldn't reliably tell which sub was the horn once eq'd and level matched to the others.
post #645 of 2456
"Because I think it matters for those who care about 10-22hz, I redid with HP filters and driver inductance. 1100 watts and same colors. Cube has 20hz and full marty has 18hz. sealed has no filter."

if you are going to do that, you have to add back the lost spl around the tuning frequency with a parametric eq.
post #646 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Because I think it matters for those who care about 10-22hz, I redid with HP filters and driver inductance. 1100 watts and same colors. Cube has 20hz and full marty has 18hz. sealed has no filter."

if you are going to do that, you have to add back the lost spl around the tuning frequency with a parametric eq.
good call. I knew I was forgetting something :-D
post #647 of 2456
with protective high pass filters in place:





post #648 of 2456
Post up some uxl-18 graphs!!! I am looking at getting the cv-2800 and I can't display the excursion graphs in winisd...
post #649 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

Post up some uxl-18 graphs!!! I am looking at getting the cv-2800 and I can't display the excursion graphs in winisd...
In post one of this thread is the cube with the uxl18 with 2200 watts. Its the red line. I think 2800 watts would be too much for uxl18 driver.
post #650 of 2456
I don't see any cone excursion graphs for the uxl-18. Want to determine where to place high pass filter
post #651 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

I don't see any cone excursion graphs for the uxl-18. Want to determine where to place high pass filter
Download Winisd and you can play with all these things to see exactly what works for you smile.gif
post #652 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Still, I think I'm always going to dream about Orbit Shifters.... they just have a different slam to them."

they have a dramatically different native frequency response, with a big rising top end that is more than ten times the sensitivity as a martysub.

however, in one or archaea's blind tests, folks couldn't reliably tell which sub was the horn once eq'd and level matched to the others.


Haha, yeah I was one of the guys there. The OS were last to play in the blind setup after a VERY long day. Honestly many were tired by that point. I thought the Submersive was the best for movies and music and the Cap sealed was 2nd for both categories. I wasn't crazy about any of the ported subs, including the Captivators which I owned at the time. I couldn't tell what was what but would have bet that that sub C was the Submersive and it was. I thought the OS was nice but like I said I was not really interested by this point and dead tired.

After the blind was over we fired up the OS full tilt and suddenly everyone (including me) was having a great time again - until 3 am ish and the gtg started at 9 am. smile.gif We were all laughing about the absurd output and chest slam those things put out.

Since then I have heard a single OS in my room and the same OS in jedimastergrant's room. There really is something special about the horn design IMO, must be the increased sensitivity higher up like you say.
post #653 of 2456

Hey guys, I'm new here but would it be possible to have someone run a sim for a mach 5 IXL 18 with 1000 watts in one these martycubes ?

Thanks in advance..


Edited by Fattykidd - 2/22/14 at 12:44pm
post #654 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post



The longer I have the sealed sub setup the more I know that below 15hz doesn't mean anything in my room. I want to reiterate - IN MY ROOM. All it does is rattle the hell out of my room but gives no feel, or very little, at all of the seating positions. The seats on the riser get a little more feel but still not worth worrying about.

Carp, it's really interesting for me to read you say this. I've been reading through you octo build and was leaning towards the sealed route but in the end I'm building 2 marty cubes. Maybe I the change was for the better? I hope to fire these up tomorrow, glue is sealing 12-24 hours for the baffles and I'll be ready to let them rip!
post #655 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDust58 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post



The longer I have the sealed sub setup the more I know that below 15hz doesn't mean anything in my room. I want to reiterate - IN MY ROOM. All it does is rattle the hell out of my room but gives no feel, or very little, at all of the seating positions. The seats on the riser get a little more feel but still not worth worrying about.

Carp, it's really interesting for me to read you say this. I've been reading through you octo build and was leaning towards the sealed route but in the end I'm building 2 marty cubes. Maybe I the change was for the better? I hope to fire these up tomorrow, glue is sealing 12-24 hours for the baffles and I'll be ready to let them rip!

Look forward to your impressions. confused.gifcool.gif
post #656 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDust58 View Post

Carp, it's really interesting for me to read you say this. I've been reading through you octo build and was leaning towards the sealed route but in the end I'm building 2 marty cubes. Maybe I the change was for the better? I hope to fire these up tomorrow, glue is sealing 12-24 hours for the baffles and I'll be ready to let them rip!


This is what my opinion has become when it comes to bass below 15hz from all the room I've been in the last couple of years and what I've read on avs.

15hz and below matters depending on:

1. the room of course
2. if you have a suspended floor or concrete
3. where the seats are located in the room - for example in Pop's room the single digit feel is so cool in the room next to his (open, no wall separating) but not as impressive in the actual seats in the room

If I had Pop's room size and 16 of my subs like he does it would be worth it - and it is worth it to him. However it is frustrating that the effect is so much stronger in the next room.
I'm not sorry I went sealed, the sound quality of the bass is great and since there are so many the ouput down low is very nice too but I'm starting to change a bit with my tastes. I'm getting more into smoothing out all of the seating areas instead of maximum output at the sweet spot and surprisingly I'm just fine with this. Now that I have 2 smoothing subs in the back of the room it's so nice to get up and walk around and still get good bass without having to be in the sweet spot. I have 3-4 ish less db's of ouput but to me the trade off is worth it - for now.

Looking forward to your impressions of the marty cubes!! However, I think you should get 2 up front and 2 in the back of the room! eek.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif
post #657 of 2456
are flat packs for the full marty and mini marty still available? if so do I pm the original OP? Also can someone run my subs I have in a sim to show what to expect. I have ixl 18's ran by ep4000. currently they are in the parts express flat packs for the 18" I have 4 ixls would it be possible for someone to sim the flat pack also so I could see whT I will be gaining. I would probably only get two of the marty boxes as I have 2 in a dual opposed sealed that will be the resting place for my jtr triple 8 behind an AT screen. I just heard about these boxes and I was told I would get a lot more output from them. I appreciate any feedback and info
Chris
post #658 of 2456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

are flat packs for the full marty and mini marty still available? if so do I pm the original OP? Also can someone run my subs I have in a sim to show what to expect. I have ixl 18's ran by ep4000. currently they are in the parts express flat packs for the 18" I have 4 ixls would it be possible for someone to sim the flat pack also so I could see whT I will be gaining. I would probably only get two of the marty boxes as I have 2 in a dual opposed sealed that will be the resting place for my jtr triple 8 behind an AT screen. I just heard about these boxes and I was told I would get a lot more output from them. I appreciate any feedback and info
Chris

Yes flatpacks are available for all martysub sizes. Just pm me. Post one has a graph showing sealed vs marty with si18. I am not sure if ixl driver would be any different .
post #659 of 2456
The IXL-18 has 24mm xmax so I would think that it would model very similar to the UM18-22 driver.

Of course I could be way off too smile.gif
post #660 of 2456
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The IXL-18 has 24mm xmax so I would think that it would model very similar to the UM18-22 driver.

Of course I could be way off too smile.gif

so what would I actually gain by going all with these flat packs over my sealed boxes. More db? More lower end? how much?
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