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12x12 room home theatre sub?

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
I have a 12x12 room with cathedral ceiling
Yamaha RX-V475 80W x 5.1 with PSB alpha B1's
What's a good awesome sub to fill the room keeping in line with the PSB and Yamaha budget?
post #2 of 58
SVS PB-1000 ($499, shipped).
post #3 of 58
post #4 of 58
I agree with both of those recommendations smile.gif
post #5 of 58
I would go with the PB12-NSD. At that price it is a no-brianer over the PB1000. In a 12'x12' I would also be looking at a Reaction BPS 212 Turbo.
post #6 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

SVS PB-1000 ($499, shipped).

Quote:

I asked SVS and they recommended the 1000.
For $100 more is there a chance the 12 can kill the room or be too much?
I don't want to "bigger is better" and over-cam my car if you know what I mean.
post #7 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by f430 View Post


I asked SVS and they recommended the 1000.
For $100 more is there a chance the 12 can kill the room or be too much?
I don't want to "bigger is better" and over-cam my car if you know what I mean.

Not a great analogy is all seriousness. Over camming is a lot different than picking up a larger sub. I always say error on the side of caution. There is no downside to a larger sub (barring space and budget constraints). It will provide more headroom, and room to grow should you find yourself wanting more bass down the road.
post #8 of 58
You can never turn up a small sub up, but you can always turn a big sub down ... my FV15HP runs at -7db most the time, but occasionally I like to go to 0 and let her eat.
post #9 of 58
My SVS SB12 NSD goes great for my 12x14 bedroom.
post #10 of 58
For $100, I would take the 12, but the 1000 is more than enough for that room.
post #11 of 58
Thread Starter 
Thank you.
Now I have to figure out how to break it to the wife that there's "just one more thing" then I'm done biggrin.gif
post #12 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

For $100, I would take the 12, but the 1000 is more than enough for that room.

That's what SVS says too. I guess I'll get the bigger one just in case I move rooms? Ya'll sure I can turn it down and still make it work OK?

From SVS:
"The NSD will be quite a bit louder than the PB-1000 in that room size to say the least. For $100 more, the NSD is a big step up from the 1000, but in that room size, the 1000 will have more than enough output and then some"

Looking at ordering and keep waffling back and forth...

Thank you biggrin.gif
post #13 of 58
I'd agree with the PB12, you can't have too much sub (and yes, you can easily keep it where you want it loudness-wise and it will sound just fine).
post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'd agree with the PB12, you can't have too much sub (and yes, you can easily keep it where you want it loudness-wise and it will sound just fine).

Yep. Won't hurt to go up a notch. I agree with everyone else that it definitely seems worth the $100. And once you've got the gain (volume) on the sub configured to integrate into your system, it will work great.
post #15 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Ordered! Got the feet and a cable too.

I hope it works OK wink.gif
post #16 of 58
Thread Starter 
Well, they cancelled my order because I am in Canada.
And, the Canadian distributor is out of stock.
Oh well.

Has anyone used this sub? BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-V-1220-430-Watt-Down-Firing-Subwoofer/dp/B0000Y2WYS/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1393143978&sr=1-3&keywords=BIC+America+F12+down+firing

Or this one? BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1393143978&sr=1-1&keywords=BIC+America+F12+down+firing
post #17 of 58
Those subs are big steps down from the pb12
post #18 of 58
+1.
post #19 of 58
Thread Starter 
I've never had a sub
Is the svs three times as good?
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by f430 View Post

I've never had a sub
Is the svs three times as good?


35-100Hz output from a sub comes cheap.

 

Clean, distortion free output flat down to 18 Hz(or lower) costs quality components and money.  I would say yes.


Edited by bear123 - 2/23/14 at 7:56am
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by f430 View Post

I've never had a sub
Is the svs three times as good?

Many of us think so. Budget subs are major compromises on some aspect of subwoofer design.
post #22 of 58
Thread Starter 
Ok thank you.

This makes sense. Like when I first got into Rifle's and bought a cheap scope that had all the right specs. After a while you spend $$$ on a scope that's actually good because you figure it out.

Not saying I might start on a starter sub still to stay in budget and save money ... but I do understand some people live with the cheap scope forever, and some need to upgrade. My ears will tell me I guess smile.gif
post #23 of 58
Poor BIC. Rarely gets any love. In one of the subwoofer shootouts where they were testing about a dozen subwoofers (large DIY and I.D. subs, including Seaton and JTR), one brought in a BIC F12. How did it do? The F12 finished dead last for movies and second to last for music. Totally overmatched? Obviously. Yet, many of the attendees were surprised that the small BIC performed as well as it did against the brutes that were there.

I own a BIC VT1220 (Christmas gift from my son), and used it for years to help solidify a small stereo setup I have for movie viewing. For decades BIC speakers and subwoofers have been known for solid performance on a tight budget, and it was the BIC that got me interested in subwoofers in the first place. It's inexpensive and gives some surprising punch for its size and price. I now own an SB13-Ultra (for music) and replaced the BIC with an XS30 for movie viewing (the BIC is now pulling duty in my computer room).

The BIC could never get down to where my walls would slam, shake and rattle anything and everything that wasn't securely attached, including myself. But it's not fair to compare a Sub that may cost between $140 to $220 to those that costs $1,150 and $1600. Are either of my new subwoofers 8 plus times better (they certainly are 8 plus times the price)? No, of course not. But there is a price to pay for real subsonic performance, and there is always diminishing returns on your investment to attain that level. It's simply the price of admission to the subsonic realm.

In a room your size (considered small), just about any of the I.D. subwoofers manufactured today (in the $400 and up price range) will do wonders and will outperform the BIC (some by a small margin, some by a large margin). It's up to you to determine what you want to start out with and what you are willing to spend. Just remember that no matter what you buy and no matter the price, there is always something bigger, badder and better out there.
post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Poor BIC. Rarely gets any love. In one of the subwoofer shootouts where they were testing about a dozen subwoofers (large DIY and I.D. subs, including Seaton and JTR), one brought in a BIC F12. How did it do? The F12 finished dead last for movies and second to last for music. Totally overmatched? Obviously. Yet, many of the attendees were surprised that the small BIC performed as well as it did against the brutes that were there.

I own a BIC VT1220 (Christmas gift from my son), and used it for years to help solidify a small stereo setup I have for movie viewing. For decades BIC speakers and subwoofers have been known for solid performance on a tight budget, and it was the BIC that got me interested in subwoofers in the first place. It's inexpensive and gives some surprising punch for its size and price. I now own an SB13-Ultra (for music) and replaced the BIC with an XS30 for movie viewing (the BIC is now pulling duty in my computer room).

The BIC could never get down to where my walls would slam, shake and rattle anything and everything that wasn't securely attached, including myself. But it's not fair to compare a Sub that may cost between $140 to $220 to those that costs $1,150 and $1600. Are either of my new subwoofers 8 plus times better (they certainly are 8 plus times the price)? No, of course not. But there is a price to pay for real subsonic performance, and there is always diminishing returns on your investment to attain that level. It's simply the price of admission to the subsonic realm.

In a room your size (considered small), just about any of the I.D. subwoofers manufactured today (in the $400 and up price range) will do wonders and will outperform the BIC (some by a small margin, some by a large margin). It's up to you to determine what you want to start out with and what you are willing to spend. Just remember that no matter what you buy and no matter the price, there is always something bigger, badder and better out there.


I too started out with a pair of BIC F-12's. I thought they were great for the $400 I spent for them. And yes, no matter what you have, there is always something bigger and badder out there. If not, check back next week, there ill be.
post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by f430 View Post

Ok thank you.

This makes sense. Like when I first got into Rifle's and bought a cheap scope that had all the right specs. After a while you spend $$$ on a scope that's actually good because you figure it out.

Exactly.

The other thing is that subs are also like rifles. A good .22 can work great for small game, but you wouldn't want to go up against a bear with it. The bigger the room, the more powerful the sub you need. Now assuming your room doesn't open into other rooms (subs see all the volume of space), then there are more budget level 12" subs that would do OK in overall max SPL in it.
post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The other thing is that subs are also like rifles.

If you use them in an apartment after midnight, you'll quickly get a knock on the door.
post #27 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post

If you use them in an apartment after midnight, you'll quickly get a knock on the door.

Hahaha smile.gif

Check out these charts f12, then pl-200, then Hsu, and SVS







post #28 of 58
I wouldn't group the f12 in there as I think that is an in-room response and not a ground plane response. Any sub's response will get ugly in room.
post #29 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I wouldn't group the f12 in there as I think that is an in-room response and not a ground plane response. Any sub's response will get ugly in room.

Thank you
I'm learning every day did not know that!
Jason
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by f430 View Post

Hahaha smile.gif

Check out these charts f12, then pl-200, then Hsu, and SVS








Is there a link to a thread that compares all these and shows those charts?
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