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VHS Dubbing Hi-Fi Audio Problem

11K views 13 replies 3 participants last post by  Super Eye 
#1 ·

Hi all- my first post here.  I am hoping someone can help.  I am dubbing my wedding video to DVD for my wife for her birthday, but I am having audio trouble.  Apparently, the wedding video guy dubbed over songs on the "Normal" (non-hi-fi) audio track, so when I play the video, there is only silence during many parts of it, because my VCR defaults to playing the stereo track.  When it goes to the ambient audio (during our vows, dancing, etc.), the sound comes on, but it is silent during when our still photos are being shown, etc.  In order to hear the audio dubbed in by the videographer, I need to turn off the Hi-Fi playback, but I cannot do that on the VCR I have, apparently.  I went through all of the VCR settings but there was none related to turning off hi-fi stereo during playback.  Is there a way I can turn off the Hi-Fi audio during VCR playback so I can access the dubbed music during transfer to DVD?  Can anybody suggest anything?  Thanks so much!
 
#2 ·
All HiFi VCRs include an option to switch between the Normal and HiFi audio tracks. Newer VCRs have a tendency to either bury the option in an obscure menu, or go to the other extreme and have it only as a hidden button on the remote. If you tell us the brand name and model number of the VCR, someone here should be able to tell you how to set the audio to your preference.
 
#3 ·

Hi Citi- thanks for the reply!  I have a Sony SLV-788HF, but I can't find the remote, so I have been using a programmable.  Per your suggestion, I pulled up the User's Manual for it online, and sure enough, there is an "Audio Monitor" button on the official remote that would switch audio output!  Of course, I can't find that remote (grrrrr...).  I'm either gonna have to see if any of the programmable remote's buttons mapped that Audio Monitor button (probably not) or hope that my Panasonic VCR (which I do have the remote for) still works.  Either way, I think I have a path forward.  Thanks so much for letting me know that all HiFi VCRs have this option!  I appreciate the help!
 
#4 ·
You should try setting the audio to “MIX” instead of just turning off the Hi Fi tracks while activating the mono linear track. That way you can just leave it in that position for the whole dub. If you find you are getting too much hiss during the vows then you can try running HF sound only during that part of the wedding.


The “AUDIO MIX” function is for the purpose of playing the natural sound from the HF track while at the same time playing the overdubbed sound from the linear track and not having to worry about switching back and fourth.


It should be something like.

AUDIO MONITOR:


HI-FI:

Normally select this. Hi-Fi sound is played back.


HI-FI L:

Sound on the left Hi-Fi channel is played back.


HI-FI R:

Sound on the right Hi-Fi channel is played back.


NORM:

Sound on the normal track is played back.


NORM HI-FI:

Both sounds on the Hi-Fi track and normal track are

mixed and played back.


Depending on the model the language could be a little different. For instance “NORM” could be called “LINEAR” “NORM HI FI” could be called “MIXED”.
 
#5 ·
Pretty much any random Sony VHS HiFi remote you can find on eBay would have the audio button and operate your SLV-788HF: Sony did not change their remote control signals over their history. You don't need to get an exact matching 788 remote, though the correct 788 remote is inexpensive second-hand (see this sample listing). Of course, if you have another VCR with proper remote, that would be the quicker solution.
 
#6 ·
Although your SLV-788HF has a direct “AUDIO MONITOR” button on the remote chances are the function may also be accessible from going into the menu. Can your universal remote get into the SLV-788HF menu? I used to have a SLV798HF but I can’t remember. I know on my JVCs I have a direct remote control AUDIO MONITOR button but I can also get to the AUDIO MONITOR via the menu.
 
#7 ·
According to the SLV-788HF user manual, available from Sony at this link, there is unfortunately no "back door" control for the audio via onscreen menu. Manual override to select HiFi Stereo, HiFi Left Channel, HiFi Right Channel, or Normal (Linear Mono) can only be accessed by the direct Audio Monitor button of a dedicated Sony VCR remote. You will need one of those, or can try all the buttons on your universal remote to see if any of them replicate the Sony audio monitor function.


Super Eye's suggestion to try the audio "Mix" setting to combine the HiFi and Mono tracks could be very helpful for this kind of wedding tape. But the SLV-788HF user manual does not list Mix as an audio option on this model. Perhaps your other VCR has a "HiFi + Normal Mix" setting: most hifi vcrs did.
 
#8 ·

Hey guys- thanks for all of your help!  I appreciate the replies and suggestions.  To respond to some of them:

 

Like you said, CitiBear, that Sony model did not have a menu setting option or an Audio Mix setting.  I haven't tried the programmable remote yet to see if a button was mapped, because I figured I would try to see if my Panasonic PV-8664 had what I needed.

 

I looked up the PV-8664 manual online (here: http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/PV8664.PDF ) and found on pg 37 that the audio is switchable during playback between Hi-Fi and Normal (mono) using the SAP/HiFi button on the remote, which I do have.  However, there seems to be no Mixed Audio mode.  Does that mean that if I put it in Normal mode during the overdubbed music in the beginning, then when it gets to the part that plays on the HiFi track (the main parts of the wedding, vows, etc.) it will go silent until I switch back manually to the Hi-Fi track?  Or will it play the audio from the HiFi track also, but in mono?  Maybe I need to be quick with the button to switch audio modes on the fly while it is dubbing?  Of course, that would mean that the mode switch indicator will display on the screen during dubbing, which will be recorded on the DVD, I think.  Hmmm.  What do you guys think?  I ultimately may have to just hook it up and try it.

 

An alternative is that I also have a Mitsubishi HS-U51 VCR model that may be good, but I cannot find a user's manual online, unlike the Sony and Panasonic models, for some reason.  Does anybody have experience with a Mitsu U-51?

 

Thanks again for all of your help!  I wish that Panasonic model had an Audio Mix mode, which would solve all of the problems.  Otherwise, I may just have to do some fiddling to get everything just right for the DVD.  Any additional thoughts/suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated!  Your comments have helped me greatly so far!

 

Update:  No buttons on my Programmable Remote were mapped to the Audio Monitor button of the Sony unit.  :(
 
#9 ·
I can't tell you anything about the old Mitsubishi HS-U51 sound options, as I never owned one and there doesn't seem to be any info on this model floating around anymore. All I can tell you is that every recent Mitsubishi I've personally owned did not have an Audio Mix setting (HS-U680, HS-U650, HS-U780, HS-U790, HS-U448 and HS-HD2000U). I think most of my JVCs had it, and quite a few of my Panasonics, but Panasonic did not offer it as consistently as JVC. The majority of wedding videographers in the 1990s edited the tapes on a Panasonic AG1960, AG1970 or AG1980, all of which do have a dedicated Audio Mix switch on their front panels.


An Audio Mix setting would offer you another variation of the soundtrack, but should not be strictly necessary to play the tape properly. Unless your wedding videographer was a complete moron, he would not assume every client had a VCR with a "Mix" setting (or even HiFi). The usual procedure was to mix the complete soundtrack (live event sound plus dubbed music) on the "Normal" linear/mono audio track at the edge of the tape, because loads of people still had non-HiFi VCRs. So if you set your VCR to "Normal/Mono" audio, you should get the complete sound mix intended by your wedding videographer. If for some reason you absolutely need to play the HiFi + Normal audio simultaneously, you will indeed require a VCR that offers the "Mix" feature. I have a few such tapes, where the live sound is on the HiFi track and music/sound effects are on the normal track: these do not play properly on VCRs that lack the "audio mix" feature. Not my favorite tapes.


The other reason Super Eye suggested playing with "Mix" or switching between HiFi and Normal on the fly while you dub, is because the Normal audio system has poor sound quality with a lot of hiss. It isn't that noticeable coming from a TV speaker, but you'll hear it with headphones or a good external sound system. Put another way, if you're old enough to remember when audio tape recorders had different speeds like 1 7/8, 3 3/4, 7, and 15 inches per second, and faster was better: the Normal VHS SP-speed audio runs at 1.31 ips (slower than an audio cassette) while the HiFi system runs at a (very rough) equivalent of 15 ips. The HiFi system is capable of much clearer sound with far less hiss and hum, but it isn't perfect: it tends to add a weird buzzing sound to voices due to inherent head-switching and tracking compromises. Nothing in VHS is perfect.


Since your tape apparently does not have high-quality music on the HiFi track, you likely have nothing to lose by just locking it to Normal/Mono audio mode. The live sound may or may not be better in HiFi: if you choose to alternate between HiFi and Normal, you miight need to edit out the VCR onscreen display with DVD editing software (unless your recorder has an HDD or you're VERY slick with the DVD pause/unpause button). The pause/unpause trick should be manageable if there's only two or three points where the video changes from live action to stills.
 
#10 ·
Actually it’s amazing how many morons call themselves professional video shooters, editors and producers when in fact they know almost nothing. I had seen so-called professional wedding videos when it fact it was nothing more than a tape shot by some amateur with a fancy prosumer camera and prosumer deck claiming to know video production. Not saying this is the case with Evan’s wedding video. Also Evan is talking just about overdubbed music in the beginning but I have seen tapes with short audio inserts everywhere over natural sound. The moron thinking “Oh its just ambient noise, background chatter, nothing important.” When in fact all of a sudden all background ambient sound goes silent during the insert and it just feels very weird and unnatural. Thank God if the client has a Hi Fi recorder with a HF/Linear mix feature - the natural sound will be preserved. Many wedding producer morons didn't care if the client owns a Hi Fi VCR and in fact many don’t have a clue how Hi FI / Linear VCR audio works. Not saying that all wedding producers are morons but Lord knows I seen my share. I put way more confidence in eBay buyers of vintage electronics than I do in most wedding video producers.


Getting back to the Sony VHS VCRs.

As I mentioned in one of my above posts, I had a same year Sony but one model number higher. That deck did have the “Audio Mix” feature but strangely it was not in the same location as the HF / Normal / L / R/ audio monitor selection. This was probably one of those many things that JVC put in as a spec for VHS Hi Fi but other manufactures started to dumb down as the other manufactures unfortunately dumbed down many VHS features that should of been standard .

SLV-788HF click for link




SLV-798HF click for link

 
#11 ·

Hey CitiBear and SuperEye!  Just wanted to touch base again and thank you for all of your help and suggestions!  I did end up using the Panasonic on Normal/Mono mode, and the entire soundtrack played just fine, including the dubbed music.  I recorded to my Panasonic DMR-EH50 DVD Recorder with hard drive (I love that thing!) and burned successfully, and now we have a great DVD copy of our wedding video!  We played it for the kids for the first time, and they loved it.

 

I kinda wish I had the SLV-798 model, so I could use the Audio Mix, but what I did worked fine enough.  I ripped both the Hi-Fi version and the Mono version in their entirety to the hard drive, so maybe if I get a chance, I can edit together a "perfect" version, sound-wise, but no rush, I guess.

 

Thanks again, and take care, guys!  Hopefully we'll "bump into" each other on this forum again sometime.  It's always great to meet a couple of cool guys willing to help a noob like me!  lol  :)
 
#12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Cutler  /t/1526611/vhs-dubbing-hi-fi-audio-problem#post_24612216


I kinda wish I had the SLV-798 model, so I could use the Audio Mix, but what I did worked fine enough.

To be honest I didn’t really like my Sony SLV-798HF nor did it last very long. Don’t get me wrong I like most Sony stuff – IMO their beta decks used to be the best VCRs of the time. I love my RDR-HX780 DVD/HDD deck. Sony CRTs were the best. IMO Sony makes the best broadcast cameras, broadcast videotape decks and broadcast videodisc decks.


Glad things worked out well for you Evan.
 
#13 ·
Evan: Glad to hear you got your wedding tape transferred with entire soundtrack intact!


Super Eye: yep, it is really strange that Sony had such a "meh" run of consumer VHS vcrs despite their clear lead in broadcast/postproduction technology. Sony did manage to field a couple of legendary top-class SVHS decks that were initially very well received by video geeks, but enthusiasm waned when the units self-destructed in short order. Sony seems to have had no middle ground in VHS: they were either mediocre in video quality/reliability, or state of the art but fragile. The beloved SLV-5RUC SVHS usually fried itself long before the 90-day labor warranty expired: it had a dodgier power supply than the Panasonic AG-1980, and that's saying something. Ironically, Sony's SLV-N55 was probably the last major-brand VCR standing at the end of the VHS era. People are still finding them new in box.
 
#14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear  /t/1526611/vhs-dubbing-hi-fi-audio-problem#post_24623419


Super Eye: yep, it is really strange that Sony had such a "meh" run of consumer VHS vcrs despite their clear lead in broadcast/postproduction technology.
Speaking of Sony broadcast disc recorders. Adding to their well-established line Sony just introduced a brand new model, the PDW-HD1550.
PDW-HD1550.pdf 1194k .pdf file

PDW-HD1550 Disc Recorder


Meant to compliment their brand new disc camcorder the PDW-850.
pdw-850.pdf 293k .pdf file

PDW-850 Disc Camcorder


The above models are so new they won’t even be available until October 2014. Those are meant for top-end local news, 60 minutes type shows, conducting national interviews for Olympics broadcasts etc. For anything higher end like mastering episodic drama TV – tape based decks using the famous “BETA” U-Load system are still widely used. Like this.
SRW5800 Beta tape based recorder


Those take the Beta tape with the U-Load system of course.


Although HDD disc-arrays are getting common for play-out and memory sticks are getting common for some production, I think it will be 4K based programming that will finally kill the dominating tape/disc production/mastering recorders. Sorry for going off topic but I figured Evan was finished with his inquiry in this thread and those above broadcast toys make me salivate.
 

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