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What gives more bass, smaller room or bigger sub?

3K views 54 replies 18 participants last post by  kiwi2 
#1 ·
Moving from a 4000 cubic ft basement with a single SVS pb12 nsd to a 1400 cubic foot room which i plan on buying a Pb10 1000.


As I understand it, they both have nearly identical bass extensions. I would assume the biggest difference would output.


Considering how much smaller the place is, will i get similar performance out of my pb1000 compared to the NSDs 12" drivers?
 
#4 ·
Output per se is unaffected by room size. What changes is that a smaller room has more cabin gain. Unless the room is really small, as in a car, cabin gain has little effect above 40Hz. But it can result in as much as 12dB or so boost at 20Hz and below. So while going to a smaller room will result in a much fatter low end, it won't do much at the upper end of the sub bass pass band. If it was me I would not be downsizing the driver. What you would be able to do is go to sealed, to reduce the cab size.
 
#5 ·
Thanks it sounds like i will be very happy with a single pb1000.


Why are there so many recommendations for sealed subs? I hear the main difference is size. but for games and movies you lose out a lit because it cuts off around 24 hz instead of 19 hz. i cant afford the expensive ones so really, im talking about the sb1000.


I will be in china btw, so i am super limited by price. There is no used market that i know of like audiogon or canuckaudiomart. cheapest NSD i found was about $1250... could by an ultra for that price here.


If anyone is aware of better cost performance chinese woofers, plz let me know.
 
#6 ·
Each sub type has pros and cons, google search them. But from my own experience, keeping it simple


Small room = sealed

Larger room = ported


There is more to it than that ie for a larger room you can get sealed, if it's a music system. Of course you can have a larger room with sealed but you'd probably need two of the same, compared to one of the ported models (comparing say one range with the same exact driver, just in different cabinet)
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24610805


Why are there so many recommendations for sealed subs?
There's a pervasive myth that they sound better. They don't. In blind testing adjusted for the same frequency response you can't tell which is which. Ported are somewhat more demanding of correct set up, and cheap ported subs can sound boomy. But that's not because they're ported, it's because they're cheap. I'd venture that 90% of those who insist that sealed are better just haven't heard a well engineered ported sub that's been correctly set up for the room.
 
#8 ·
I didn't want to bring up the debate myself. I don't really believe that sealed subs are more musical. to me there is no reason to buy a sealed sub except for size. I don't have the golden years. to me they are just inferior in

Performance. I was curious as to if there was any other reason why I should get them in a smaller room.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24610883


I didn't want to bring up the debate myself. I don't really believe that sealed subs are more musical. to me there is no reason to buy a sealed sub except for size. I don't have the golden years. to me they are just inferior in

Performance. I was curious as to if there was any other reason why I should get them in a smaller room.

I've had


SVS SB12+

SVS PC Plus 20-39

SVS PC Ultra 13

SVS SB Ultra 13


for the home theatre settled with the SB Ultra 13. For the Hi-Fi, SB12+


The ported models go louder, but to me, the SB sound better. The ported models just seems to shake the house but not really much else higher up. My room is tiny though, that's probably why.
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24610883


I was curious as to if there was any other reason why I should get them in a smaller room.
There's only one reason to get them for a smaller room, and that's because you can. A sealed sub in a room with a longest dimension of 15 feet will deliver like a ported sub in a room with a longest dimension of 25 feet, so since you're able to go with the smaller sealed you might as well. Conversely a ported sub in a small room might actually have too strong a low end. That's not an issue if you have measuring gear to see the response, and EQ gear to correct it, but most users don't. Not having the ability to realize flat in-room response is the number one reason for dissatisfaction with otherwise high quality subs. For instance, if it seems that the ported is lacking in the upper end of its range, it isn't. It just seems that way if the low end is too much for the room, and you have no way to identify and fix the problem.
 
#13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24610805


Thanks it sounds like i will be very happy with a single pb1000.


Why are there so many recommendations for sealed subs? I hear the main difference is size. but for games and movies you lose out a lit because it cuts off around 24 hz instead of 19 hz. i cant afford the expensive ones so really, im talking about the sb1000.


I will be in china btw, so i am super limited by price. There is no used market that i know of like audiogon or canuckaudiomart. cheapest NSD i found was about $1250... could by an ultra for that price here.


If anyone is aware of better cost performance chinese woofers, plz let me know.
I would wait till you get over there, who knows what you will find there. I know the first thing I would do is get a stack of FP1400 clone amps and build a few 18" DO sealed subs.
 
#14 ·
#15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24612906


speaking of DIY can anyone tell me what this is?
Be very careful of Chinese speakers. You can buy almost perfect knockoffs, visually anyway, of any speaker made, all counterfeit. For example:
http://www.paaudio.net/paroyal-products.asp?id=120

The line array speakers on this page are JBL counterfeits, right down to the model number.
 
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#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24612906


speaking of DIY can anyone tell me what this is?

http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=10522204818&spm=0.0.0.0&rn=8L78WwNB2-2PNRK5yqWhTu3VJ1GB-p2icbbO-Xsjo1&sid=874b985451aeb2b4&abtest=2&bagtype=


can't read Chinese but it says something about DIY subs and is the only thing that shows up when I enter Hsu VTF on taobao.


if anyone can tell me whether that is a vtf2 on sale for $250, please let me know!! seems like its DIY. Does Hsu research sell parts for DIY?
Why not ask Hsu directly?
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypte  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24614461


Why not ask Hsu directly?
Safe bet he'll tell you that he doesn't export subs to China and sell them for less there than he does here.
 
#18 ·

Since they are made in China maybe you can get a real Hsu before they get shipped to the States and save on shipping?  Might be worth a call to Hsu to find out.  No sense shipping it to the States from China then back again, although they are not likely set up to distribute from their Chinese manufacturing facility.
 
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#19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZone  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24610569


Moving from a 4000 cubic ft basement with a single SVS pb12 nsd to a 1400 cubic foot room which i plan on buying a Pb10 1000.


As I understand it, they both have nearly identical bass extensions. I would assume the biggest difference would output.


Considering how much smaller the place is, will i get similar performance out of my pb1000 compared to the NSDs 12" drivers?

why change subs at all? the more competent sub will either be better (reducing distortion at high levels that you might not have even noticed) or just as good as the new sub, and all you can do is lose money on the old one to move to the new one
 
#21 ·
Ah, missed the china ref (kinda a big deal) halfway through the thread . . .


if you could know you could do (or have done) some woodworking, I'd consider bringing an appropriate Eminence or other commercial bass driver because I'd expect nothing will be cheap to get (for real) over there. Although if you happen upon a real rolex daytona for 200 bucks, I'll gladly give you $400 for it and pay shipping . . . .


OTOH, if you're going to be in an apartment, fear the bass. The lower it goes, the less you can control it (and soundproofing is entirely different from, more intrusive than and WAY more expensive than bass trapping for in-room sound). So you could spend a bunch of bucks to get bass capability that you simply cannot turn on in your real living situation. People over there have samurai swords for real, the way I hear it.
 
#22 ·
yes I understand that any SVS sub might be already way too much subwoofer for where I'm staying. in fact my room might end up being less than 1000 ft.²


I would love a good suggestion for a room of that size. I know SVS doesn't really make subs in the $300 range though so are there any really good subwoofers for $300 that will give you all the base I need for an apartment?
 
#23 ·
Neighbors problems are not about in room volume. If the sub is making 40 hz tones they will be just as strong next door or upstairs or downstairs as in your room unless the structure is unusual.


Weak enough to not bother neighbors might mean weak enough to be inaudible in your room.
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24615085


Ah, missed the china ref (kinda a big deal) halfway through the thread . . .


if you could know you could do (or have done) some woodworking, I'd consider bringing an appropriate Eminence or other commercial bass driver because I'd expect nothing will be cheap to get (for real) over there. Although if you happen upon a real rolex daytona for 200 bucks, I'll gladly give you $400 for it and pay shipping . . . .


OTOH, if you're going to be in an apartment, fear the bass. The lower it goes, the less you can control it (and soundproofing is entirely different from, more intrusive than and WAY more expensive than bass trapping for in-room sound). So you could spend a bunch of bucks to get bass capability that you simply cannot turn on in your real living situation. People over there have samurai swords for real, the way I hear it.


He can bring just the amp and woofer along to China, and have an enclosure made locally for cheap.
 
#25 ·

Well the NSD is already sold so I can't get that again. There is a VTF3 MK1 used. Its a very interesting idea and I am really considering it right now. However, my problem is that the subs available to me at a good price for now are both with modular ports. Getting a basic enclosure in China would be easy. Not sure if it is just as easy to get something with two ports that can be easily sealed. 

 

I also have no idea how much the drivers + amp weighs.

 

Thats an extremely helpful suggestion though! Thanks for that.
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123  /t/1527522/what-gives-more-bass-smaller-room-or-bigger-sub#post_24614915

 

Since they are made in China maybe you can get a real Hsu before they get shipped to the States and save on shipping?  Might be worth a call to Hsu to find out.  No sense shipping it to the States from China then back again, although they are not likely set up to distribute from their Chinese manufacturing facility.
Yeah this suggestion doesn't sound likely. There are a lot of things made in China that never get distributed there. I could ask though, never know what could happen!
 
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