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Lexington, KY - HDTV - Page 163

post #4861 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

With DTV, quality is a subjective measurement (until you get to extremes).



Not sure what you mean by this. Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV. Maybe you are trying to say that people can't really tell the difference? I don't believe that is true either if you have a readily available standard to compare it to. Now, if the channel happens to be the only source for that particular program you have, then it may be hard to tell.

"Ignorance is bliss", isn't that really what you are referring to?
post #4862 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV.

There's a great discussion illustrating sam_gordon's point in the Springfield MO thread. KSPR recently went from having only ABC-HD on 33-1 to doing dual HD with CW on 33-2. Half the people in the thread thing it looks like total trash and they don't want to watch it anymore, while the other half of people don't see any difference. Both groups are watching it on HDTVs.

There's also the fact that you cannot simply look at bitrates to determine which one has the best quality, if this is what you mean by "ridiculously easy." A TV station with no subchannels and maxed out bitrate but an encoder which dates to 1998 will probably look worse than a station with a subchannel or two running the latest and greatest from Harmonic.

- Trip
post #4863 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There's a great discussion illustrating sam_gordon's point in the Springfield MO thread. KSPR recently went from having only ABC-HD on 33-1 to doing dual HD with CW on 33-2. Half the people in the thread thing it looks like total trash and they don't want to watch it anymore, while the other half of people don't see any difference. Both groups are watching it on HDTVs.

There's also the fact that you cannot simply look at bitrates to determine which one has the best quality, if this is what you mean by "ridiculously easy." A TV station with no subchannels and maxed out bitrate but an encoder which dates to 1998 will probably look worse than a station with a subchannel or two running the latest and greatest from Harmonic.

- Trip

It's easy to muddle the discussion with this sort of topic and then create difficulty in "proving the point". I'm not interested in that. Everyone knows what is happening with downconversion/overcompression/bitstarving and cramming too many channels into the allotted space.

Measuring bitrates and also considering encoding/decoding/compression algorithms etc. is complicated and obtuse enough that anyone with a little knowledge on the subject can find a way to argue pretty much either side of the topic. It will always be the provider arguing that it is "enough" for PQ and oh by the way have you seen our other channel(s)?

I know when I'm watching CBS and my display tells me it's 720p something is wrong.

The bottom line is that the broadcasters believe they are incentivised to give us quantity over quality. I think if they push too far it will backfire. I'm also thankful that at this point I still have a choice in where I get my programming.
post #4864 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but have we had a problem in Lexington with the affils pre-empting network programming? I know KYT occasionally preempts to show SEC basketball, but they show the non-UK games as part of the contract so they can show the UK games.

You just proved to me that you have an agenda, and you'll say anything to support it, no matter how silly. First you imply that there's no problem with network programming being preempted, then you admit there is, but try to minimize it. There's nothing "occasional" about it, it's every week. Other areas I've lived, local sports is tape delayed, so there's an option.

Interestingly, that wasn't what I was thinking of. KYT routinely cuts off live network programming that runs over into scheduled local programming. They've been doing it for decades, they've gotten in trouble for it more than once, they've lied about it (direct quotes from station management in the local paper.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Something tells me the affil's agreement with network doesn't have that statement in there. With DTV, quality is a subjective measurement (until you get to extremes).

They have a contract with me, the viewer. And there's no way for me or you to know what their legal obligations are with the network. I called Buena Vista several years ago with an issue about TVQ. I was told what they were doing, as they stated to me, was in violation of their contract and they'd have their legal dept. give the station a call. The problem ceased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Yes, it's a conspiracy. All the broadcasters sit around and think "how can we screw our viewers." If that was the case, no one would be airing HD. They'd downconvert the network feed to SD, and put in a couple more subchannels. THAT'S the argument I didn't want to get into earlier.

I'm being screwed from my perspective. From their perspective, they're enhancing profit. And yes, I'm pretty sure they sit around thinking up ways to do it, and some of those ways reduce the quality of their broadcast, whether it be increased ad time from the network, or local stations reducing PQ of network programming so as to broadcast more local content (in terms of ad revenue) on subs, as if preempting network programming to make room for local wasn't enough for them.

I can't believe, living in this area, that you would ridicule my statement. Here's a tip, google "Toyota acceleration" and see if you get any hits. If you should happen to, read up on how long they knew of the problem, how long they kept it hidden, how many people were killed or injured because of it, etc. Corporations have a long history of "screwing" their customers if it serves the corp's financial interests. This is a given and no sane person would deny it.
post #4865 of 5238
Anybody with TSReader or something similiar that can look at the Lex locals streams and see if one or more of the stations are sending out erroneous time and/or DST info?

My Dish PalDVR is off one hour in the time and/or EPG or the DST flag is getting set erroneously.
It could easily be a PalDVR issue, but as rinky dink as the Lex locals are, it could just as easily be one or more of the locals screwing up(with the exception of KET of course ).

Thanks.
post #4866 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTownKY View Post

Anybody with TSReader or something similiar that can look at the Lex locals streams and see if one or more of the stations are sending out erroneous time and/or DST info?

My Dish PalDVR is off one hour in the time and/or EPG or the DST flag is getting set erroneously.
It could easily be a PalDVR issue, but as rinky dink as the Lex locals are, it could just as easily be one or more of the locals screwing up(with the exception of KET of course ).

Thanks.

The easy one first... I don't think anyone is sending out a time flag. I could be wrong.
post #4867 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post



Not sure what you mean by this. Both video and audio quality are ridiculously easy to measure with digital TV.

Then how do you propose to do it? As has been mentioned, you can't just look at bitrates. So how do you "easily" measure quality?
Quote:


Maybe you are trying to say that people can't really tell the difference? I don't believe that is true either if you have a readily available standard to compare it to. Now, if the channel happens to be the only source for that particular program you have, then it may be hard to tell.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you don't have a full bandwidth HD signal to compare to, most people probably wouldn't know how compression affects the signal... until it gets TOO compressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Measuring bitrates and also considering encoding/decoding/compression algorithms etc. is complicated and obtuse enough that anyone with a little knowledge on the subject can find a way to argue pretty much either side of the topic. It will always be the provider arguing that it is "enough" for PQ and oh by the way have you seen our other channel(s)?

But I thought you said it was easy to measure quality.
Quote:


I know when I'm watching CBS and my display tells me it's 720p something is wrong.

Keep in mind, you're the exception. Do you really think the majority of viewers even pay attention to 720/1080 much less know if an affiliate is changing from one to the other?

Quote:


The bottom line is that the broadcasters believe they are incentivised to give us quantity over quality. I think if they push too far it will backfire. I'm also thankful that at this point I still have a choice in where I get my programming.

I agree with you 100% If broadcasters do too much compression, viewers will tune them out. However, most people seem to complain about the CONTENT, not the quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

You just proved to me that you have an agenda, and you'll say anything to support it, no matter how silly. First you imply that there's no problem with network programming being preempted, then you admit there is, but try to minimize it. There's nothing "occasional" about it, it's every week. Other areas I've lived, local sports is tape delayed, so there's an option.

Ummm, no. I really hadn't heard of a problem with pre-empting network programming, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SEC SPORTS, so I was asking if that was what you were referring to. Apparently it is. Let me explain something to you. This is the heart of UK Wildcat country. The basketball team's coach even acknowledges the fans are "crazy". WKYT brings in a lot of money by being the local affiliate. However, in order to show UK games, they need to air other SEC games. I guarantee you they have an agreement with CBS to do so.

Quote:


Interestingly, that wasn't what I was thinking of. KYT routinely cuts off live network programming that runs over into scheduled local programming. They've been doing it for decades, they've gotten in trouble for it more than once, they've lied about it (direct quotes from station management in the local paper.)

KYT has cut off CBS to go to what? Local news? Syndication? I don't know. I don't watch local TV. Please, educate me.

Quote:


They have a contract with me, the viewer.

Really? I don't remember anyone asking me to sign something so I can watch them. What's in the contract that YOU have to uphold?

Quote:


And there's no way for me or you to know what their legal obligations are with the network. I called Buena Vista several years ago with an issue about TVQ. I was told what they were doing, as they stated to me, was in violation of their contract and they'd have their legal dept. give the station a call. The problem ceased.

So, then why not call CBS and complain about KYT?

Quote:


I'm being screwed from my perspective. From their perspective, they're enhancing profit. And yes, I'm pretty sure they sit around thinking up ways to do it, and some of those ways reduce the quality of their broadcast, whether it be increased ad time from the network, or local stations reducing PQ of network programming so as to broadcast more local content (in terms of ad revenue) on subs, as if preempting network programming to make room for local wasn't enough for them.

I can't believe, living in this area, that you would ridicule my statement. Here's a tip, google "Toyota acceleration" and see if you get any hits. If you should happen to, read up on how long they knew of the problem, how long they kept it hidden, how many people were killed or injured because of it, etc. Corporations have a long history of "screwing" their customers if it serves the corp's financial interests. This is a given and no sane person would deny it.

[/quote]So businesses (and that's what broadcasters are, KET excluded) shouldn't try to increase their profit? And now you're comparing reduced PQ to injuring and killing people? Ohhhh kaaaay.
I still say if PQ gets bad enough to turn off enough viewers (and it's going to be hard to prove it's PQ making people change the channel and not the content on the screen), then stations will increase quality.
post #4868 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

But I thought you said it was easy to measure quality.
Keep in mind, you're the exception. Do you really think the majority of viewers even pay attention to 720/1080 much less know if an affiliate is changing from one to the other?

It is easy. Especially on-topic here. 720p means KYT is providing less video information than was originally intended by the network. Less relative space given to the specific channel out of the available 18mb/s allocated (or thereabouts) also translates to less data and decreased data means less quality. Whether someone who doesn't really care, or know, or has bad vision, or a small display, or a 20 foot viewing distance, or doesn't have a baseline to compare to and thus doesn't know any better is another issue altogether---it's still less.


The other issue with 720p downconversion of 1080i is that deinterlacing is being done by the station which compounds the problem. Most modern displays (not to mention dedicated video processors) can do a much better job of this.

Since when do we say something is "OK" simply because the perception is that most won't notice???
post #4869 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

It is easy. Especially on-topic here. 720p means KYT is providing less video information than was originally intended by the network. Less relative space given to the specific channel out of the available 18mb/s allocated (or thereabouts) also translates to less data and decreased data means less quality. Whether someone who doesn't really care, or know, or has bad vision, or a small display, or a 20 foot viewing distance, or doesn't have a baseline to compare to and thus doesn't know any better is another issue altogether---it's still less.

So stations shouldn't compress at all? They should give viewers the pure signal?

Ever use a .zip file on your computer? That's compressed. Therefore you're getting less data, and according to you decreased data equals less quality. After all, everything is data now.

Quote:


Since when do we say something is "OK" simply because the perception is that most won't notice???

That's nothing new (in television or elsewhere). If 99% of consumers are happy with a product, and only 1% aren't, do you try to satisfy the 99% or the 1% (especially if the 1% means less $$ in the coffers?)?
post #4870 of 5238
Let me add... I agree stations can over compress the signal. My point is where the line between "allowed" compression and "over" compression lies.

As you pointed out, a "full" HD signal is ~18mbs. Think you'd notice a problem if that's compressed to 17mbs? 16? I'm sure you'd notice at 10. So... that "acceptable" line is somewhere between the 10 & 18. You apparently think the line is at 18 (correct me if I'm wrong). I feel you can get down to the 16/15 range and not have a problem.

Going between 1080i & 720p I haven't heard of a definitive "winner" yet... 720p handles motion better, but 1080 gives you more resolution. I'd say going from 1080i to 720p is a wash (if they went to 720i, I'd agree with you).
post #4871 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Let me add... I agree stations can over compress the signal. My point is where the line between "allowed" compression and "over" compression lies.

As you pointed out, a "full" HD signal is ~18mbs. Think you'd notice a problem if that's compressed to 17mbs? 16? I'm sure you'd notice at 10. So... that "acceptable" line is somewhere between the 10 & 18. You apparently think the line is at 18 (correct me if I'm wrong). I feel you can get down to the 16/15 range and not have a problem.

Going between 1080i & 720p I haven't heard of a definitive "winner" yet... 720p handles motion better, but 1080 gives you more resolution. I'd say going from 1080i to 720p is a wash (if they went to 720i, I'd agree with you).

I don't really have much of a problem with 1080i plus a weather channel or even a full SD channel. I'd rather they provided a single channel at 1080i but I'm not idealistic enough to really expect it will happen very often and will continue to be fairly uncommon.

What KYT and KET are doing is quite different however. The original network resolution shouldn't be altered. The reason behind it is obvious: they're both trying to provide more programming than was intended for the allocated space.

This isn't an argument of 1080i vs. 720p. I wouldn't agree with TVQ "upconverting" to 1080i either if they decided to for some odd reason.

Downconverting the original network 1080i to 720p is intentionally "cheating" to save bandwidth pure and simple IMO. If KYT wants to be a 720p network affiliate, then they should call FOX or ABC. Otherwise, CBS affiliates should provide a 1080i signal to their viewers as intended by the network.
post #4872 of 5238
Now I'll add something.

You could make the case for KET getting a "pass" for this. In other words, the benefits of educational programming outweigh the PQ issues. However, KYT doesn't deserve the same pass.
post #4873 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Downconverting the original network 1080i to 720p is intentionally "cheating" to save bandwidth pure and simple IMO.

50% agree. I agree they are "cheating" in order to save bandwidth. But I don't agree going from 1080i to 720p is "downconverting". I'd call it "crossconverting".

Quote:


If KYT wants to be a 720p network affiliate, then they should call FOX or ABC.

I don't think it's that easy though. I hope you weren't being serious.
Quote:


Otherwise, CBS affiliates should provide a 1080i signal to their viewers as intended by the network.

But there are also stations (none in Lexington fortunately) that don't even put out an HD signal... EVERYTHING is SD. Should they have to drop their affiliation?
post #4874 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

50% agree. I agree they are "cheating" in order to save bandwidth. But I don't agree going from 1080i to 720p is "downconverting". I'd call it "crossconverting".

I don't think it's that easy though. I hope you weren't being serious.
But there are also stations (none in Lexington fortunately) that don't even put out an HD signal... EVERYTHING is SD. Should they have to drop their affiliation?

Well, I'm being somewhat serious in that the affiliate should be true to the network's intended signal.

Even though both are considered "HD" I wouldn't use the term cross-conversion as that suggests equivalent resolutions/data rate. If it's simply a cross-conversion, then why would KYT/KET go to the trouble? 1080i to 720p is technically downconverting as the total data rate is less for 720p, thus the bandwidth advantages to 720p.

Major network affiliates still only providing an SD signal only are uncommon and for the most part are simply leftover from the transition. If they are providing SD expressly for the intent of saving bandwidth and providing multiple channels, then yes they should drop IMO and someone else should pick it up and provide the proper signal. Furthermore, the network itself should require it. Should CBS require KYT to provide 1080i? Yes, IMO, but I doubt it will happen. I suspect they aren't exactly thrilled about it though.
post #4875 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post


Ummm, no. I really hadn't heard of a problem with pre-empting network programming, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SEC SPORTS, so I was asking if that was what you were referring to. Apparently it is. Let me explain something to you. This is the heart of UK Wildcat country. The basketball team's coach even acknowledges the fans are "crazy". WKYT brings in a lot of money by being the local affiliate. However, in order to show UK games, they need to air other SEC games. I guarantee you they have an agreement with CBS to do so.

They could always put it on a sub lol - the PQ wouldn't suffer much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

KYT has cut off CBS to go to what? Local news? Syndication? I don't know. I don't watch local TV. Please, educate me.

The issue is viewing network TV, then the local affiliate stops airing the network program (live of course) to air local content. It can be anything - if it's not network, it's local, since the ad revenue is locally generated for the most part. Now they're putting the network on a sub in such a case as far as I can tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Really? I don't remember anyone asking me to sign something so I can watch them.

You don't have to since they're the sole source for CBS programming unless you're lucky enough to live where you can reach Louisville or Cincinnati. What I give up is the choice to watch another channel for my CBS programming - that makes them obligated to air CBS programming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

So, then why not call CBS and complain about KYT?

I would complain to the FCC if anywhere, but when I was talking to the station several years ago to complain about them having taken off the Men's Final of the US Open to air local news (after running a crawl for at least an hour saying they wouldn't) he (assistant station manager or some such title) eagerly offered to give me the proper FCC address for mailing a complaint. Since the guy was nothing but double-talk and PR 101 nonsense, that told me he knew that it wouldn't matter. Still, I've gone through the motions with an online complaint against them ... maybe if the pile gets big enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

So businesses (and that's what broadcasters are, KET excluded) shouldn't try to increase their profit? And now you're comparing reduced PQ to injuring and killing people? Ohhhh kaaaay.

Not sure if it's your meaning, but you seem to be saying it's okay to knowingly kill a few innocent people if it increases profit. I would disagree. My point was, that if a large corporation was willing to kill some folks to increase profit (or avoid decreasing profit) then messing with my PQ would probably be okay too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

I still say if PQ gets bad enough to turn off enough viewers (and it's going to be hard to prove it's PQ making people change the channel and not the content on the screen), then stations will increase quality.

Never happen, and in that we're in total agreement. Every single person I knew in the VCR days, who regularly time-shifted, used slp. Every VCR I ever owned was S-VHS. The only way we'll get what we could is if my dream comes true - the networks go to a pay system. Sounds silly, but i don't think it's beyond the possible. The network-affiliate model is dead according to most, so something is going to change in the next decade or so.

Look at the competition though - streaming and such where the quality is questionable at best, but most love it. It's just "TV." But HBO has lasted for years with quality content as it's selling point, and many cable channels now are jumping on the quality content bandwagon. A quality picture, done right (which almost no one sees now) might just sell if supported with content.
post #4876 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

They could always put it on a sub lol - the PQ wouldn't suffer much.

Depends on how the contract with the SEC is written. KYT has been preempting CBS programming for SEC sports for at least the 20 years I've been in town. It really has nothing to do with digital.

Quote:


The issue is viewing network TV, then the local affiliate stops airing the network program (live of course) to air local content. It can be anything - if it's not network, it's local, since the ad revenue is locally generated for the most part. Now they're putting the network on a sub in such a case as far as I can tell.

And all I'm asking is give me an example (or two) where KYT has done this, with the exception of SEC sports.

Quote:


You don't have to since they're the sole source for CBS programming unless you're lucky enough to live where you can reach Louisville or Cincinnati. What I give up is the choice to watch another channel for my CBS programming - that makes them obligated to air CBS programming.

I would think their contract with CBS would make them obligated to show their programming. Again, in this supposed "contract" between a station and a viewer, what are you supposed to do to uphold your portion of the contract?

Quote:


I would complain to the FCC if anywhere, but when I was talking to the station several years ago to complain about them having taken off the Men's Final of the US Open to air local news (after running a crawl for at least an hour saying they wouldn't) he (assistant station manager or some such title) eagerly offered to give me the proper FCC address for mailing a complaint. Since the guy was nothing but double-talk and PR 101 nonsense, that told me he knew that it wouldn't matter. Still, I've gone through the motions with an online complaint against them ... maybe if the pile gets big enough.

You know why he told you that... because the FCC has nothing to say in what programming a station airs (with the exception of the "seven bad words"/nudity/etc). You need to contact the network.

Quote:


Not sure if it's your meaning, but you seem to be saying it's okay to knowingly kill a few innocent people if it increases profit. I would disagree. My point was, that if a large corporation was willing to kill some folks to increase profit (or avoid decreasing profit) then messing with my PQ would probably be okay too.

I'd agree with you if it was the same person making the decision. My point is compression is not always bad. And what one person sees as bad PQ, many might not. Stations are trying to find that "line" between acceptable and bad PQ.

Quote:


Never happen, and in that we're in total agreement. Every single person I knew in the VCR days, who regularly time-shifted, used slp. Every VCR I ever owned was S-VHS. The only way we'll get what we could is if my dream comes true - the networks go to a pay system. Sounds silly, but i don't think it's beyond the possible. The network-affiliate model is dead according to most, so something is going to change in the next decade or so.

I agree it's possible, but way off in the future if it happens.

Quote:


Look at the competition though - streaming and such where the quality is questionable at best, but most love it. It's just "TV." But HBO has lasted for years with quality content as it's selling point, and many cable channels now are jumping on the quality content bandwagon. A quality picture, done right (which almost no one sees now) might just sell if supported with content.

But a quality picture (even done right) won't sell if it's not supported with content. Bad content won't bring in viewers no matter how pretty the pictures are. Good content will get eyes regardless of the PQ.
post #4877 of 5238
I know, a little bit off topic but Dick worked in this market, and he was a friend of mine.

IN MEMORIAM DICK STILSON

Dick was born on October 15, 1935 He graduated from high school in Youngstown Ohio. After high school he joined the Army. In 1955, his first job out of the Army was at a 250 watt radio station in Youngstown, WBBY.

In 1958, Dick moved on to WYTV in Youngstown. This small television station had the transmitter and control room all in one room. Dick did it all, he switched between cameras, ran audio, and he also spun the records all during the same dance show broadcast. The first "Dick" moment happened while at WYTV. During a local newscast, Dick was on duty, the Newsman was short on copy so he asked Dick to go to the AP wire and rip him a few pages of copy. While doing so, Dick also inserted three pages of copy written in GERMAN. That's our Dick!

In 1960 Dick moved on to a better climate, Hawaii, working for KMVI and KULA. To help make ends meet, Dick also was a part time disk jockey around the islands and believe it or not, sold used cars in his spare time. A moment in Hawaii that sticks out was his working for ABC in the filming of the 20th anniversary of Pearl Harbor. He was a camera operator floating on a barge in the harbor for three days.

After three years in Hawaii, Richard moved to Cleveland, to WJW-TV, where he worked on the remote crew for the Browns games and also was the Technical Director for all the Cleveland Indians games.

From WJW TV Dick took a job at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana working for the Midwest Airborne Educational Facility. To say this job was up in the air is really saying something! His control room was inside a 4 engine, DC-6 aircraft. This aircraft would fly in a designed pattern, while lowering a 24foot TV broadcast antenna from the belly of the plane. While flying in a figure eight pattern at 23,000 feet, the MPATI plane was able to broadcast instructional television programming to schools in six Midwestern states (Indiana, OHIO, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, and Wisconsin). The flights took place in the same figure eight pattern over Indiana for six hours each school day. The 2,000 miles flown in just one day was the equivalent of a flight from St. Louis to Los Angeles.

The next stop on the Stilson tour was at WLEX in Lexington Kentucky. While at WLEX, he attended technical school to learn 2 inch video tape machines. When he got back, he installed all the tape machines at the station.

WLWC, now known as WCMH, was his next stop. That stop at WLWC did not last long. Dick entered the printing business with his brother-in-law in Albuquerque, NM. The printing business wasn't all he hoped it would be.

Dick returned to Columbus and began working for Ohio Public TV. While there he helped with the installation of their tape machines. Then he returned to WLWC again for a brief stint as a vacation relief engineer.

In 1976, Dick began working with us at WTVN, now WSYX-TV. Dick loved his job enough that at 74, he still had not retired. In December 2009, Dick became ill and fought hard until February 11, 2010 when Richard F. Stilson passed away. He leaves behind a wife (Maggie) of 42 years, 3 grown kids and several grandkids. He was a wonderful man, many of us have been through a lot with Dick, and we miss him!
post #4878 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Depends on how the contract with the SEC is written. KYT has been preempting CBS programming for SEC sports for at least the 20 years I've been in town. It really has nothing to do with digital.

LOL ... and that's the crux of my frustration with WKYT. Digital multicasting was supposed to have resolved that issue. Instead, we still have the CBS preemptions, but now as an added bonus, we also get CW preemptions.

Give 'em an inch ...
post #4879 of 5238
Something sure changed with the WLEX transmitter recently, getting much stronger signal.

Before they had that outage not too long ago, I was getting 93-96 range on my signal strength meter on my DishPalDVR, then after the outage I was 'peaking' at 88, ...that is until I looked today and saw the 98-100 readings.

Now if they would just maintain the main picture's aspect ratio during these ridiculous 'snow warnings' they constantly display at the slightest of fricking signs of flurries.
post #4880 of 5238
When did LEX have an 'outage'? Or are you referring to the ~30 second transmitter drops they had (2?) either earlier this week or late last week?

I haven't heard of anyone (since WTVQ did) increasing power. It would be kind of hard for LEX to do so since they only have one amplifier.

And are you talking about the school closings that every station does (I agree to the extreme, just want to make sure that's what you're referring to)?
post #4881 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

When did LEX have an 'outage'? Or are you referring to the ~30 second transmitter drops they had (2?) either earlier this week or late last week?

I haven't heard of anyone (since WTVQ did) increasing power. It would be kind of hard for LEX to do so since they only have one amplifier.

12-13-09, My post from that date has the blurb that WLEX put on their web site. WLEX 12-13-09 outage
Their signal level has definitely increased since last week, I have never had LEX peaking at 100 on my strength meter the way it is now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

And are you talking about the school closings that every station does (I agree to the extreme, just want to make sure that's what you're referring to)?

Yeah, the main picture is 'squished' by the approx. 15%(WTVQ's looks to be about 20%) that they use to show not 'just' the overly redundant school closings, but also who's fricking yoga class is canceled, that Joe Schmoe's Garage is closed etc.(They even just showed a fricking 'excavating' companie's delay of 'ONE HOUR', ....seriously?)
Not only do these stations screw with the aspect ratio of the picture, but they also rarley take it down during prime time shows and then show it as they should only during commercials while in prime time.
They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.

Last night WKYT had this fricking ridiculous 'winter weather warning' covering the bottom portion of the screen during Survivor that they could of easily had the same affect if they had shown it only during commercials, absolutely no new information was provided on that banner that couldn't of been seen during the commercials. They could of also just displayed it periodically and had the same affect.
post #4882 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTownKY View Post

12-13-09, My post from that date has the blurb that WLEX put on their web site. WLEX 12-13-09 outage
Their signal level has definitely increased since last week, I have never had LEX peaking at 100 on my strength meter the way it is now.

OK. I don't know how they could have increased power without adding equipment, but ok.

Quote:


Yeah, the main picture is 'squished' by the approx. 15%(WTVQ's looks to be about 20%) that they use to show not 'just' the overly redundant school closings, but also who's fricking yoga class is canceled, that Joe Schmoe's Garage is closed etc.(They even just showed a fricking 'excavating' companie's delay of 'ONE HOUR', ....seriously?)
Not only do these stations screw with the aspect ratio of the picture, but they also rarley take it down during prime time shows and then show it as they should only during commercials while in prime time.
They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.

On this I agree with you (not necessarily letterboxing the image, but overdoing the closings). It's obvious some companies use the "closings & delays" as free advertising. However, if the stations will accept it...
I did notice they (LEX) had changed the size of their graphics. They apparently changed it too much because yesterday morning part of the graphic was cut off... stupid graphic's people, don't they check things?

Quote:


Last night WKYT had this fricking ridiculous 'winter weather warning' covering the bottom portion of the screen during Survivor that they could of easily had the same affect if they had shown it only during commercials, absolutely no new information was provided on that banner that couldn't of been seen during the commercials. They could of also just displayed it periodically and had the same affect.

Can't exactly argue with you here either.

My only suggestion is to call the stations and complain. SOMETHING got LEX to change their closing graphic... I'm pretty sure it wasn't just someone at the station "seeing the light".
post #4883 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

OK. I don't know how they could have increased power without adding equipment, but ok.

If they reran corrections to improve SNR out of the transmitter, that could have helped reception.

- Trip
post #4884 of 5238
Wow..... WYMT is now broadcasting non-HD programming in stretch-o-vision today... looks awful. Hope it's just a technical issue.
post #4885 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTownKY View Post

They should 'black bar' the main picture to maintain aspect ratio, the reduced size would be far more watchable than the way they do it now.

With the worst offenders (such as WTVQ), I change the aspect ratio to 4:3, so the school closings banner acts as letterboxing. It's not perfect but it is less irritating.

I think most modern TVs won't allow you to do this on a true HD source, but I time-shift most programs through my old SD Tivo - which thinks everything is 4:3 anyway.
post #4886 of 5238
Personally, I don't notice the 15% squeeze of the picture (ignoring the graphic itself). No, I don't like it and think stations do too much of it, but school closings DO need to be aired. My .02... put them up during the newscasts only.
post #4887 of 5238
Anyone know why WKYT didn't broadcast the game last night in HD? They did 4:3 standard def! A friend in Ashland said his local affiliate had shown it in HD over there. Why did WKYT diss Central Kentucky like that?
post #4888 of 5238
WAVE 3 didn't have it in HD either... WAVE was having problems with it for the first 10 minutes of the game.
post #4889 of 5238
Was the game also anamorphic (16x9 image squeezed into a 4x3 window)? It looked (based on the score bug) like there was LOTS of room left & right.
post #4890 of 5238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Was the game also anamorphic (16x9 image squeezed into a 4x3 window)? It looked (based on the score bug) like there was LOTS of room left & right.

The players didn't look any taller and skinnier than usual.

Wonder what WKYT will do for the championship games or is that all going to be on ESPN?

I've noticed some people will tell me they are watching HD because the screen is full with no black bars on any sides.. and then I look and they are hooked up by s-video or composite. lol You can't tell them the picture isn't high definition either. Ignorance must be bliss? It drives me nuts that a friend has an HDTV and Dish standard def receiver, but won't hook up rabbit ears to pull in the locals and get the ATSC stream over the air.. they think because they have DirecTV that the box is receiving HD signals even though I told them it wasn't. Gwaaa.. they can easily plug in an antenna, change the source to OTA, do the scan and watch the game or whatever in actual high def (providing that station is really broadcasting HD.. glad I didn't hook up an antenna and try to show him that last game in HD when it wasn't... that'd of made me look real bad). lol
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