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Hd Leeza Official Retail Price - Page 3  

post #61 of 191
I think 19x10 means 1920x1080 and 13x10 means 1365x1024...
post #62 of 191
Ofer,

With the rain on Long Island today Don and I are in the same boat :)

Anyway, imagine this configuration:

Source1 - DVD via sdi - 480i
Source2 - DTC100 via RGBHV - 540p or 1080i
Source3 - JVC30K via component - 1080i
Destination - DILA projector via RGBHV input on the projector only

Assuming that the Leeza is connected via a single connection to the projector, from the 5xBNC output of the scaler to the RGBHV input on the projector.

When you select

Source1 - scaled to 1365 x 1024 and out to projector
Source2 - pass thru of 540p or 1080i signal
Source3 - this is the question, can the component signal be transcoded to RGBHV (still at 1920x1080) and sent to the projector, or will the Leeza transcode and scale to 1365 x 1024?



SG
post #63 of 191
Again,

I don't see why you would want it like this. You're passing through incorrectly.

instead:

Source1: SDI 480i. Deinterlaced and scaled to native resolution (1365x1024).

Source2: DTC - 1080i via RGBHV, fed to VGA in, deinterlaced (1080p), and scaled DOWN to native resolution (1365x1024).

Source 3: DTC- Svideo (for SD input), fed through SVideo, deinterlaced, and scaled UP to native resolution (1365x1024).

Source 4: DVHS (JVC) through Component 1080i, through HDTV input. Deinterlaced (1080p) and scaled DOWN to native resolution (1365x1024).

The display ALWAYS sees 1365x1024 and never loses sync.
post #64 of 191
Ofer,

This will work fine.

Right now outputting 1080i from the DTC100 directly to the projector (and letting it discard the extra pixels) produces an incredibly good picture. The question is whether deinterlacing and scaling (down) via the Leeza will produce a better / worse image.

SG
post #65 of 191
Ofer,
you have been very gracious with your responses. Thank you for your time.

You are operating at a bit of a disadvantage as you are unaware of one of the quirks of the G series D-ILA projectors. The G10/1000, G11, G15, G20 are notorious for producing artifacts with (native) NTSC material when deinterlacing and scaling to fill the full panel (1365x1024 resolution, but the vertical pixels mapped equal 768 with 16:9 material without the use of anamorphic optical adapter).

But, when fed a 1080i signal the projector uses a hybridized deinterlacing/scaling scheme (discovered by Mark Foster-then a VP for Apple's Powerbook division) that presents close to 90 percent of the original signal on the screen. The HDTV picture from this projector is stunning. As a result, many D-ILA projector owners are trying to ascertain if the pass through will work without scaling to the projectors native panel resolution.

We want the flexibility to pass the signal through the scaler to the projector with YPrPb to RGBHV transcoding only. We wish to evaluate if the HD Leeza produces superior results when compared to the 1080i scaling capability of the projector. It appears from what you have stated that this should be possible.

There is history with regard to scalers producing a marked decrease in quality when taking 1920x1080i source material and scaling it to 1365x1024. The Dune provided this capability, but the results were inferior to what the projector was capable of doing when receiving the 1080i signal without modification. For this unique application, we will have to evaluate both options and draw some conclusions.



Steve,
I know one of the concerns I have is automation if switching between 1080i HDTV sources and scaler output at 1365*1024. One sure way to do it is to kick the output refresh rate of the HD leeza to 75hz for all of the scaled sources. This assures that your projector will autosynch to SXGA3.
post #66 of 191
Don,

This knock down in quality for SDTV is apparent in most displays, not just the DILA. The larger the projection area, the worse it will look (GIGO at its best). The increase in resolution due to 3:2 pulldown and a strong deinterlacing and scaling engine should bring SDTV to as good as it can get.

Regarding 1080i. Keep in mind that the HD-LEEZA is the first consumer unit that's supposed to be able to deinterlace 1080i into 1080p and scale it up or down to native rate. Dune certainly wasn't able to do this - which is why it produced a worse picture than feeding in the 1080i directly.

The whole point of this process (which is the purpose of HD-LEEZA) is to deinterlace HD. If it does a worse job than feeding in 1080i directly, then it's of no use to HDTV scaling...

Also, there is no device I'm aware of that's capale of doing 3:2 pulldown on 1080i. Since the HD-LEEZA is supposed to do just that, it should increase spacial resolution tremendiously over previous technologies. I assume that this is what Mark Foster "discovered".

The RGBHV will pass through (as someone quoted Mike T. as saying). YPbPr will not (i.e., your D-Theater signal will be processed). However, as I stated, the whole idea is to process everything on the HD-LEEZA, that's what it was designed to do...
post #67 of 191
Looks like the theories will need to be tested in the real world to determine actual performance.

Ofer, is the presentation to the projector 1024p or 1024i?

Assuming 1024p, Don any thoughts on presenting the projector with 1024p versus 1024i?


SG
post #68 of 191
Ofer,
you are correct regarding the output of the previous vigatec. I have no idea what there intermediate steps were. At this price point there isn't another product that can output 1080p from 1080i with 2:3 pulldown, but "F" does have the 5000. You are "right on" with improving spatial resolution with regard to maximizing the 1080i native source material

Please understand that we are simply fleshing out some of the specific issues with regard to the D-ILA. Also, there will be many people who upgrade, in addition to those who are purchasing with KD for the first time. I do not like surprises.




Steve,
The input from the scaler would be 1024p, and should present no problem for the projector at refresh rates to 75.1hz. People have been using timings in powerstrip for several years that correspond to the 1365x1024 settings with use of SXGA3.

The DILA can scan well in excess of 67K, which is high enough in theory to accept a 1080p signal.


Ofer,
check out this thread to get an idea of what the projector does. Potentially it can be improved on.
post #69 of 191
I thought that a general consensus had been reached that the "G" series have a compromised resolution when using the component (YPrPb) input?

I believe I remember some Mark Foster post's to that effect. He seemed to think that there could be a possible fix , but I have never heard of it being implemented.
post #70 of 191
Don,

I reread Mark's old thread on the 1080i approach of the DILA. Any speculation on how the projector will handle a 1024p signal?


SG
post #71 of 191
Don,

Just read the thread, sounds quite intruiging, sounds like a crazy idea... But heck, if it works...

The big question is which will look better, 1080i or 1024p. I don't see 1080i on the list of RGBHV outputs (in has 1080, but it doesn't say if it will do 1080i or "just" 1080p). In any case, my gut tells me scaled down 1080p -> 1024p will look better than 1080i on the D-ILA.

Just my educated guess...
post #72 of 191
Re progressive inputs at 1024p and 1080p I posted this in the projector 5K+ forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=167212


SG
post #73 of 191
1024P through a Radeon based PC with TT software looks great on a D-ILA, but not as good as the best 1080i material I have seen on the D-ILA. The more important question will be how well the KD does with deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p coupled with the downconversion to the D-ILA native rate of 136*x1024. If it is better I will be very pleased.
post #74 of 191
Damon,
your are correct. There is a degrading process applied to the YPbPr input of the D-ILA projector. I believe there was a discussion about methods to improve the quality of the projectors display on the component video input, but no solution was presented.
post #75 of 191
Don,

That's not quite fair - you're comparing something with 480p temporal resolution with 540+p (1080i).

HDTV will always win.

A more correct way to check this is to compare TT (with the same content) with the computer running at 1080i vs. 1024p.

Ideally, you should compare 1024p content running at 1024p or 1080i for a truly accurate comparison.
post #76 of 191
Ofer,
I believe you misunderstood me.
My comparison will be "apples to apples".
Native 1080i fed to the projector and projector utilizing the source memory for 1080i HDTV vs, 1080i fed to the HD Leeza with Leeza Deinterlacing to 1080p and downconverting to the Native panel resolution of 136*x1024.

Steve was inquiring how 1024p material behaves. My experiences with 1024p are limited to utilizing and external scaler and a HTPC with NTSC as the input source.
post #77 of 191
Don, good point, all 1024p to the projector has been scaled 480i / 480p material and not deinterlaced and scaled 1080i material.

SG
post #78 of 191
Don,

I understood exactly that. I was saying that your experience with 1024p (i.e., external scaler with 480i/480p as source) is insufficient to draw a conclusion regarding the capabilities of the DILA.

IMO, "pure" 1024p could be SIGNIFICANTLY better quality than anything we've seen before. I think many people have barely started scratching the surface of what DILA is capable of.
post #79 of 191
The Mark Foster quote below (excerpted from his D-ILA Explanation treatise) indicates that he & Ofer are in agreement.

"By utilizing a unique hybrid progressive+interlaced scanning system, the D-ILA is able to deliver a dramatic improvement in its 1080i display. However, it is also true that once affordable interpolating 1080i scalers become available, D-ILA owners will be able to see an even better HDTV image than they do now!!!"

Can't wait!!
post #80 of 191
We will have to be very careful in drawing our conclusion as I have seen 1080i HD film transfers of such poor quality that they fell short of the best DVD had to offer. It should be somewhat easier using Dtheater source material, as that allows some standard basis of comparison.

Although there is 6 times more information with 1080i material, I do not believe it is any more "pure" than scaled 480i material. I think it is far easier to get a positive outcome via discarding information through downconversion, when compared with the interpolation and upconversion of information from a lower quality source. I have seen an Ayre Progressive player produce an image that is very close in quality to the image quality produced by a Radeon PC at 1024p. This demonstrated to me that the better the quality and the lower the noise of the output device, the better the image would be on the projector. More importantly, it demonstrated that the real achilles heel of the projector is deinterlacing of NTSC material. For NTSC I would love to do a comparison of SDI dvd player/scaler combo, to the MOVI player with the mods on the output.

I reiterate, that many will be pleased with the improved picture quality and functionality if the HD Leeza improves on native 1080i.
post #81 of 191
Can the HD Leeza accept 2 sets of HD component inputs and switch/transcode/deinterlace/scale both to RGBHV ? The specs on the website appear to indicate that it's not possible.

-----
g15
isco ii
jvc 30k
post #82 of 191
any update on a power buy?
post #83 of 191
Rabident,

No, unless one is SDTV and one is HDTV. What do you need two component inputs for?
post #84 of 191
Right now, a JVC 30k D-VHS and HD cable SA-3100. HD over component is the only option these 2.

An HD STB and an HD D-VHS should be fairly common in the future. I can understand KD's reservations with switching DVI, but component is here now and switching for it is needed. I know there are external boxes that can handle this, but I had hoped the HD Leeza would be able to do it.
post #85 of 191
good point Rabident,

The only suggestion I can think of (if you want HD-LEEZA, that is) is to get a transcoder.

You switch one of the inputs to RGB 1080i and use HD-LEEZA to do switching. It'll cost about $150 more for this solution, but I'm pretty sure it would do what you want.
post #86 of 191
rabident:

There’s one more thing to consider. There are still 2 inputs on the panel itself. It’s not clear (to me, at least) if the KD card will scale them, but at least you should still have the option of using them. Of course, the KD card must enable component on those inputs, exactly the same as the current PDA-5002 card and it’s not clear if it will do that either.

Michaellucky:

Please clarify if the card will:

- allow inputs 1 and 2 to be switched between RGB and component.
- scale video coming from inputs 1 and 2.

If this has been answered already, my apologies. Thank you.
post #87 of 191
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Boden
rabident:

There’s one more thing to consider. There are still 2 inputs on the panel itself. It’s not clear (to me, at least) if the KD card will scale them, but at least you should still have the option of using them. Of course, the KD card must enable component on those inputs, exactly the same as the current PDA-5002 card and it’s not clear if it will do that either.

Michaellucky:

Please clarify if the card will:

- allow inputs 1 and 2 to be switched between RGB and component.
- scale video coming from inputs 1 and 2.

If this has been answered already, my apologies. Thank you.
Dear Jim,

Are you talking about HD Leeza or HD Native Pixel Card?
Thank you
post #88 of 191
I need to ask this simple question about the new Leeza. How much better is the new ClearMatrix de-interlacing algorithm? I mean, can it match Faroudja with video?



Thanks



-DB
post #89 of 191
Jim,

If the inputs are not on the Native-Pixel card, how could the card scale them? I don't think it could.

Digital Buzz,

We'll have to wait and see. No one outside of KeyDigital have seen the algorithm yet. We need an outside reviewer to go over it. Hopefully, Stacey Spears or someone can go over to KeyDigital's CEDIA booth with a couple of test DVDs to see.
post #90 of 191
I thought that Key Digital had plans for a companion piece that funtioned mainly as a switcher/transcoder for the new HD Leeza?
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