Anyone have the Sony DVP-NS999ES Yet? - Page 17  

Editor

Since I don't have my player yet and may not have it till next week, I'm really curious to see what your experience is with your new player, especially with regard to problems that Brian and the others have brought up.

I'm hoping that yours might have be part of a new shipment that could be different. Probably not, but maybe:)

Hi sonus,

here are some more impressions and highlights.

first off, i checked the various firmware info in the service menu and found that mine was exactly the same as ian mcleod's. his was purchased in late october, mine around december 10th.

Main Menu:
Model: DPX-1690uc
Revision: 1.400

Revision Menu:
IF con. Ver: 1.000(0616)
Syscon Ver: 1.400 (00D1)
Model B0
Region 01
Servo DSP Ver: 1.021
AVD vcode Ver: 05E30047

what you see above, i copied and pasted from ian's post to save myself the trouble of typing.

on a more subjective note, i watched a fairly mediocre looking dvd tonight: "fear and loathing in las vegas." most of this film looks so-so, in terms of picture quality/encoding, the exceptions being some of the closeups. i watched it mostly in progressive, but occasionally switched to interlaced mode, to see the difference. then, when it was over, i hooked up my DVP-S7700 and watched the end of the DVD again. the 999ES is better. but to my eye, the 7700 is still quite likable. tonight, on a fair-to-middling disc, the 999 didn't knock me out, like it did last night on LOTR.

this is the first progressive player i've had so the progressive mode itself is enjoyable. i have a notion that this player is giving a clearer look at what's really going on with the dvd itself. for example, i checked out a bit of the kieslowski move "blue," which i had watched a few weeks ago. on one dark scene in a cafe, banding is clearly visible where a shadow moves across a wooden tabletop in a dark cafe. this i hadn't noticed when watching on the 7700, (although surely it was there). no doubt i'm looking harder.

so, first overall impression. as a video player (which is my real interest - i haven't even hooked up any 5.1 gear yet; it hasn't arrived and it will be nothing special when it gets here) - as a video player, i like it but it didn't knock me out tonight like it did last night, but i think i'll keep it. not saying i won't trade it out at some later date, but certainly not right now.

here are a few odds and ends. there are 5 video presets: standard, dynamic 1, dynamic 2, cinema 1, cinema 2, and a user adjustable setting called "memory." this last has an awful lot of tweaks in it, most of which i decided to stay away from, or else to adjust them on the tv itself, which has finer increments. standard is ok, dynamic 1 & 2 you should avoid, since they're wat too hot, like the "vivid" and "standard" settings on the 34xbr800. cinema 1 is nice, 2 has much denser blacks, so which you use will depend on how your display is set up. the memory setting has, among other things, the ability to completely retweak the gamma curve!

the remote which i maligned earlier has one excellent difference from the 7700's remote. shuttle wheel behavior has changed: on the 7700 when you turn, you must go through all the steps in order, slow2, then slow1, then x2, FF1, FF2. on the 999 remote, the behavior is different in play and pause. the wheel in play goes x2, FF1, FF2, but in pause it goes Slow2, Slow 1.

Another nifty feature is the memory it keeps of what DVD's have been played. If you put in a DVD that, say, you were watching last night but in the middle of the movie you removed it from the player, the 999 remembers where you left off and will cue up to that spot when the disc is next inserted.

How about a silly feature? It can grab a still frame from a DVD and use that as a background for its menus!

well, that's enough for now. good night.

ed

one thing i forgot to mention: the layer change was quite long! obnoxious.

ed

You can make the most use of the Memory menu in the interlace mode. You guys seem to avoid trying this but believe me it works! Right now I have the black level off in component out and on in the other. Picture is at 0, brightness is -2 and color is +1. You have to play with it according to how your TV is set up.

Have any of you noticed how high the black/white levels are right out of the box? It will give you a stunning picture in bright daylight scenes but in dark scenes you loose all detail. It's all pretty much black. Unfortunatly you can't adjust it in P-scan mode. I can't imagine why Sony did this. But if you do the things I mentioned you can adjust it in the in the interlace mode. And it gets a very good picture.

You all used things like Avia to set up your TV. But you didn't notice how hot the levels were on the 999? This is at least in part responsible for the shimmer. One of the Sony engineers mentioned this on my first call to Sony. Then he couldn't believe there was no adjustment. You can turn it down but the picture becomes substandard and turning up the brightness just make light spots really bright. Deinterlacing, of course, is the other culprit.

Bob, if you are using your component connection for your signal to your display, you only need set the black level (component out) to off, the other black level is for your composite or s video output. Both are for interlaced out only.

You can dial in the dark areas in the shadows etc, without blowing out the bright areas by using the "gamma correction" settings.

Since it appears that at least some of the bad stuff being displayed in progressive is the tendency to drop into video mode, it might helpful to set “progressive 1†closer to the film setting (using progressive out of course). I’ll be playing with that a little more when I get the time.

Regards,

Ian

Ian, I checked and I have component out on and the other off. It makes a difference in interlace as you said but there was a difference in the result depending which levels were on or off. If both were on the blacks were too intense, just like in P-scan, so the other black level does do something.

I've been hesitant to try the gamma settings because I don't want to screw anything up. Have you done this? It seems like it would be dependent on what you are watching at the present time. If the whites are too intense they would be that way on the whole picture. Why wouldn't it just allow you to back down the whole picture instead of just a section at a time? I'm not sure that's the answer.

Also, I already have the Prog. 1 setting on +2. It didn't seem to help. Let me know what you think. If you are getting some results I may have to check again. I can understand your thinking here and you'd think this would help. Let me know if you find anything that helps Ian.

Thanks,

Bob

Bob, the “Black Level (component out)†setting only affects the component output (Y, Pb, Pr) in interlaced mode. The other “Black Level†setting is for the composite, or s video output, witch only displays in interlaced. For instance, I have the s video from the DVD player hooked up to a video 1 input on my display while I have the component hooked up to (say) video 2. If I toggle the “Black Level†switch on and off, I can see level change on and off while watching the video 1 setting on my display. Nothing will happen while watching video 2 because that is hooked up to the component inputs. If I toggle the “Black Level (component out)†setting on video 2 I can see the level change on and off, I see no change on video 1 which is hooked up via an s video jack. Both of these settings are for interlaced only, but refer to two different outputs on your DVD player.

You can play around with the gamma settings without concern. One: they only affect the memory mode. Two: there is a menu selection which allows you to return to default any time you like.

Regards,

Ian

Thanks, Ian. Now I just have to decide whether I want to mess with it some more or just be happy with the way I have it.

One thing I've seen in both interlace and progressive is a bar pattern rumnning through the picture. It's been there since I got the 999. Since no one else has reported it I have to wonder if it's a cable issue or something else with my setup.

When viewing a bright picture it's not visible. In darker pictures or in dark sections of the picture It can be seen. Most of the time it is quite sutle but I'm curious as to what it is and how I can get rid of it.

Bob,

To clarify further (or muddy more), when I recommended back in November turning the “black level (component out)†off, I was trying to describe the interlaced mode which most resembled the color and brightness of the progressive mode. If you find your display is more pleasing using “black level (component out)†on, then use that setting. Either way, I am assuming you are viewing your display through the component out (Y, Pb, Pr). This is predicated on the assumption, that since you were viewing the progressive output using component out (the only way you can view progressive out with this player), you were using the component out to view interlaced.

As to the pattern running through your picture… no I have not. What does the pattern look like?

Regards,

Ian

Bob, I just had a bad thought. I see you have a RPTV, have you had an occasion to have a bar pattern (as some stations display when off air) on your screen either repeatedly or for long periods of time. Are you looking at a burnt in image?

Regards,

Ian

No, Ian, it's not burnt in. There is no way to describe it except for a sort of bar pattern. I only see it when using the DVD player. My TV is a 57" and the bars are about 1/4" wide. Only visible in darker areas, especially in darker scenes. Since I havn't heard of anyone else with this phenomenen I figure it's in my setup somewhere. My component cables are new. I needed longer ones. I wonder.....

As I am new and this is my first post to this site I will try to keep this short.

I havejust received my 999ES and am currently putting it through a number of technical evaluations. I am a broadcast engineer with access to a reasonable range of profesional video and audio test equipment, and after reading many of the reviews here I was VERY concerned about this players performance....

As a reference point:

Real world video monitoring is done using a Sony VPL VW11HT that has been broadcast calibrated to 6500K +_ 125K from 5-100IRE. The screen is a Daylite 16x9 106" diagonal high gain. This combination provides a measured contrast ratio of 518 to 1 with a peak brightness of 520 lumens. I am running the projector in theater mode using the component inputs. The projector is running with 3/2 pulldown turned on.

Audio monitoring is provided by an Onkyo 919 and 838 providing bi-amped front,left and right monitors, a pair of separately driven left and right subs and a pair of surrounds. I will tell you more about the speakers if anyone asks!

Just a couple of points I would like to comment on, not too technical at this stage:

1. Using both the Avia and the Video Essentials test discs, all the video outputs conform to the appropriate video broadcast specifications in terms of both luminance and chroma levels, using the 999 standard setting.
2. Progressive component outputs Y, Pr, Pb never have setup...ever, its not part of the spec. Hence it not being available in this mode.
3. Interlace component outputs may have setup or not, some equipment may require it, some not. Its an NTSC thing!
4. The composite video and S video outputs may or may not have setup, as per (3).

The 999 menu selections for the choice of setup performs correctly on the designated outputs and there is no interaction between them.

Just a point to bear in mind. Setup has NO FUNCTION these days (generalization) and should not be used, It only serves to REDUCE the pictures dynamic range. It was introduced many years ago to resolve some scanning/sync problems. More on this if asked.

I too have seen the chroma bug but on my system it is virtually invisible, and the blind thing on ET is really not a "big deal"....

One point in closing, the player appears to be OVER enhanced by comparison to the Sony 7000. Ringing can be found on many edge and color transitions. Fortunately this does not seem to show up on the picture.

The 999 is definitely a keeper, but I have a lot more tests to do yet. The video is generally much better than the 7000, the blacks and overall color saturation and purity are way better than the 7000 and the audio is outstanding.

Paul

Bob,

The bar you are seeing running through your picture sounds very much like a hum bar, a common problem in analog broadcast facilities.

This occurs when either you have too many earths on a piece of equipment and you are producing an earth loop or you have no ground at all or a poor or high impedance ground. It is probably the latter.

The other thing you need to check is that the player and leads are not near any magnetic fields generated by the transformers in other equipment power supplies.

Finally if its only the 999 that is doing it, it may have a bad power supply!!!

Paul

hi there Paul.... glad to read a post from a man with a measuring device. I'm an online video editor (online in the old CMX sense, rather than the new-fangled internet sense). Can you tell me what the luminance of cinema 1, relative to the standard preset, and can you tell what's going on with the cinema 2 preset?

As for ringing, I believe I was noticing a tick more ringing from the 999ES than from my DVP-S7700. (I guess it's hard after working in a room full of Sony gear for so many years, not to buy Sony at home.)

Any other insights from you would be *greatly* appreciated.

Ed

Editor,

I do not currently have any test equipment at home. I will be pleased to run some additional tests to look at the other pre-sets. Unfortunately I am due to go away for 4 weeks on a job so I will probably not be able to do many more tests between now and the middle of January.

I understand your comments regarding the continued use of Sony equipment. Fortunately in my position ( I work for a very large independent System Integration Company) I have the "pleasure" of checking, testing and using most broadcast manufacturers equipment.

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post. I have run the 999 in both interlace and progressive modes, both with no setup and both calibrated (virtually no difference) to the same luminance levels. I have to say that I prefer the look of the progressive output from the player rather than using the projector to do the conversion. There seems to be less artifacts. More on this when I have the tools and time for a better evaluation.


Paul

Hi again, Paul... I agree with you that progressive mode is better looking. imo, more detailed and generally sweeter. However, the slight ringing I'm seeing on certain shots is starting to bother me. I'll have to look at more dvds to compare, and make sure it isn't the content itself. The sharpness is turned down fairly low on the tv, so I don't think it's that. If this becomes problematic, do you think you might be able to figure out a service menu tweak?

Ed

Digione, this is not a single bar but a pattern of small bars about 1/4" to 3/8" wide, spaced about that same distance apart, (on a 57" widescreen) that is throughout the entire picture top to bottom. It does not show up on moving objects and as I mentioned before it shows up in dark scenes and background. In fact, it doesn't have to be all that dark of a background object as long as it is stationary. It is suttle, not that prominent but again is readily noticible in darker scenes.

Oh, I should mention that the bars are horizontal.

hi Bob. first off, i haven't seen that problem in my 999. second, it sounds to me like bad power. you've isolated this problem to the dvd player in your system, right? that is, when you swap out the dvd player for another one, the problem goes away.

ed

I just received my 999ES last night (ahead of schedule), and had a bit of time to run a couple of discs through the player.

In another thread, I asked if the 999ES would outperform my Pioneer Elite DV-05. Running in progressive mode, I would emphatically say YES! I played Gladiator, the Battle of Carthage scene, first in the DV-05 and then the 999ES. The difference was quite clear, with the 999ES having a much cleaner, film-like appearance and edges more clearly defined. This is using the Standard setting on the 999 without any adjustments at all.

There is one scene that shows the gladiators standing, facing the emperor, with their chain armor on. On the DV-05, there was shimmering in the chain armor, but none on the 999.

Next, I popped in E.T., and FF to the scene with the blinds. Actually, I went to the scenes ahead (around 34 mins) and rewound back to about 27 mins where the scene starts. When Elliott tries to get E.T. out from the closet, there was no shimmer at all in the blinds! However, when I played the scene again but this time I fast-forwarded to the 27 min mark, THEN there was some shimmering. Weird!!

Overall, I really like the PQ so far just using Gladiator, but I guess I need to spend more time calibrating the pictures and playing more discs to decided if this is a keeper.

The shimmering is slight in my player also, sonus faber. In fact, it's the only one of the glitches that is apparent at all. I mentioned using the interlace mode but I really don't have to because my 999 is working quite well. I'm glad to hear your 999 is working like mine is. Hope it continues.

editor, I did not notice the problem with my Toshiba but I also have switched cables. Do you think they could have anything to do with it? I suppose I could try the other cables but they are a lot shorter and I'd have to do some drastic changing around to do it. I originaly had 2 meter Monster cables but now I have 3 meter Esoteric. It wouldn't be hard to just buy a new set of Monsters but I hate to spend the money if thats not the trouble. Do you think the longer cables are running too close to something? They should be schielded but maybe not as well as the other set.

Hi Guys,

I thought some of you might find the following review quite interesting (I received the article this morning from forum member, Ran, who is another happy 999ES owner).



From this month's The Perfect Vision, a review of the Sony 999ES

Video Performance

I first connected the DVP-NS999ESto my Runco DTV-933 CRT projector using the interlaced component-video inputs of a Faroudja DCS scaler.

Thanks to Sony’s Marc Finer, the first disc I watched was Columbia TriStar’s upcoming Spider-Man DVD. Though not a Superbit, Spidey is a knockout.

This might be the most colorful, vivid,kaleidoscopic demo disc since The FifthElement! The DVP-NS999ES made the colors jump from the screen, with sensational resolution and depth, and precious few artifacts of any kind. Among the many areas in which the Sony excelled was preserving the fine detail in Spidey’s outfit (no, not the one he wears in the wrassling sequence!). The webbing on the red parts of his suit was clearly delineated as a textured rubber draped over the suit, and the fine celllike print within the red rubber was revealed too. I know that doesn’t sound like a big deal, but my point is that this DVD player shows you virtually everything that’s on even the most finely detailed discs out there. Indeed, the DVP-NS999ES’s gave up very little ground pitted against the internal drive on Faroudja’s DCS (reviewed elsewhere in this issue).

Feeding the DVP-NS999ES’s interlaced component-video output into the DCS as an external source delivered a picture that was barely istinguishable from the deep, three-dimensional image of the DCS’ internal drive, and even then only after several A/B comparisons. The DVP-NS999ES’s interlaced video quality is not just exceptional—it’s the best I’ve yet seen on any DVD player, surpassing even Arcam’s FMJ DV27 and Pioneer Elite’s DV-47. Both the DV-47 and DVP-NS999ES produce images that are subtly more detailed than Arcam’s fine entry, but only the Sony matches the DV27’s smooth and natural colors and its resolution at the darker end of the grayscale.

Switching the DVP-NS999ES to progressive scan and using the Faroudja DCS to transcode the YPbPr component video to RGB for display on my Runco revealed a picture no less excellent than the one I described with the Sony’s interlaced output. This player’s 480p output looked so terrific I wished I still had Ayre’s remarkable D-1 on hand for comparison. The Arcam FMJ DV27’s progressive output was less transparent, and almost grungy in comparison.

Pioneer’s DV-47 is the one that gives it a run for the money, but I have to award the Sony the edge for a more naturally detailed image and better deinterlacing of video-based material (like music DVDs). The only players I’ve seen that better the DVP-NS999ES’s exceptional performance in this last regard use Faroudja’s DCDi circuitry. How did the oversampling video DACs fare? Well, with program material extremely well, obviously. Without test equipment I can’t be sure, but judging from the sharpness pattern on Avia, the DVP-NS999ES didn’t completely eliminate ringing. In this regard the DVP-NS999ES performed only marginally better than the Arcam FMJ DV27, and not nearly as well as the internal drive in the Faroudja DCS. Maybe we need 216MHz video DACs. (Talk about ludicrous speed!)

Audio Performance

The DVP-NS999ES was much better than I expected in the audio department, given its compromises in build quality vis-Ã*-vis the DVP-9000ES. Moreover, it costs less and has more channels of audio playback capability to boot. As an SACD player the DVPNS999ES bettered the performance of the DVP-NS900V I reviewed in Issue 43 by sounding warmer and less “pinched,†and it sounded night and day better than Pioneer Elite’s DV-47. Good as it is, though, it didn’t equal the performance of the DVP-9000ES with virtually all two-channel audio formats. The DVP-NS999ES was a bit lean in comparison. The DVP-9000ES was also more transparent overall, with better resolution of low-level musical details. I should note that the DVP-9000ES is now discontinued, which means that the only currently available SACD players I’ve heard that sound better than the DVP-NS999ES are audio-only players that cost substantially more.

Conclusion

I bought a Sony DVP-9000ES and used it as a reference for two years. I recommended that player to a lot of friends and colleagues, and I’ll be doing the same with the DVPNS999ES. The DVP-NS999ES is the best DVD-Video player that Sony has built, a worthy successor to the DVP-9000ES as Sony’s flagship. Although that former flagship edges the DVPNS999ES as a two-channel audio player, at $1199 this player’s performance-price ratio is off the chart. Not only is the new Sony worthy of my highest recommendation, it’s an early front-runner for Product of the Year among DVD players.

Bob, I'm afraid I'm not enough of an engineer to answer these questions. For the moment, don't buy any cables. Wait for DigiOne to return to the forum and he'll probably be able to help with this. You can eliminate the cabling from the equation of you hook your Toshiba back up, and the bars go away. Then you'll know it's the 999.

Ed

Not one reveiewer seems to be awre of the Chroma Bug, long layer change, or shimmering on text or blinds, what gives?

Martin, on my player and aparently many others the c-bug is very hard to find. In most cases to find it you have to pause and hunt for it. It simply not that big a deal for most of us.

The layer change varies and really isn't that bad. I've been checking mine and it is usually between 1/2 second to 1 second. Remember it's only going to happen once per movie. No big deal.

Others are finding, as I have, that the shimmer is not that bad either. However, some players seem to have it worse than others. Setting the progressive adjustments in the Memory setup may help some but I can't say for sure.

This player gets an excellent picture and outstanding audio. I agree with dmunsil, the 999 seems to have been designed as an audio player first and DVD player second. But the video is still very good minus these glitches and will surprise you. And, as I said, only the shimmer is of any issue on my 999 and it's not really that bad.

On the barring pattern, I finally got up the gumption to pull everything out and look into it. I hooked up my old cables and voila, the bars were gone. So then I began to check the routing of the new cables.

I found the power cord from the 999 was sort of wrapped among the component cables. Obviously, when I hooked up the old cables they were free of the power cord. I rerouted the power cord and tried the new cables again. No more bars.

I learned a lesson here. And thanks to you guys I went investigating and got the trouble fixed. I would have thought the shielding would have been better on the cables but it looks like it isn't. I'm slowly but surely going to upgrade my cables. It is, as you all know, a rather costly thing to do. Also WAF enters into the equation as well.

good going, bob!!!

ed

Thanks Bob. I don't even think of using a stock power cord on ANYTHING. I tried an Acoustic Zen power cord on my 9000ES and it was like giving my CD playback steroids.
Never looked back.

Well done Bob.

Remember that a cables electrostatic screening won't prevent interference from any stray magnet fields. Keep those signal leads, video and especially audio, far away from any AC power cords.

Paul

Shane Buetner's reviews now officially hold no water with me. All of his reviews have seemed very sincere and objective to me. However, this is the first time I've had the opportunity to "review" the same product for myself. I'm sorely disappointed.

If this makes no sense, go back a few posts and read the review from "The Perfect Vision". Although the author is not credited, it is obviously Shane Buetner. He gave both the 9000ES and the 900V great reviews and owns the same Runco FP system sighted in the review.

To read his review of the 999, you'd think it was the most amazing value in DVD players ever offered.

Perhaps my display is so significantly different than his Runco projection system as to make comparisons irrelevant. I would think that the *obvious* problems with the 999 would have shown up in his evaluation. I also think that the Denon 3800 produces a noticeably superior picture to the 999. Listen to Shane and the 999 is the end all in video. Not so, I can assure you.

So much for my subscription to TPV.

Brian.

Bob & Editor,

I have had a fair amount of both practical and academic experience with cables. Many years ago they were part of my study at University, and today I design and build some of the largest and most advanced digital and analog broadcast facilities in the world.

As I am in the process of packing I do not have the time to get into this debate, which I know is a VERY sensitive issue for many engineers and enthusiasts. However, I can assure you that for video, particularly short lengths, eg. less than 5m, cables made from Belden 1695A are as good as it gets and they will only cost you a few dollars if you can solder and make them yourself. The only really important parameters of the video cable are its impedance (75ohm), its loss (negligible for 10m running analog 480P60) and its correct termination by the equipment at each end of the cable, again 75 ohm. (there are many other parameters but on such a short length they are of little or no concern).

I have tested and measured, under laboratory conditions, many SO CALLED Esoteric video and audio cables and YES you CAN see and hear the difference. HOWEVER, the differences have ALWAYS occurred as they have generally incorrectly loaded the equipment and filtered the signal in some way. It is very easy to misinterpret what you see and hear when you use these cables as very often they can produce HF boast, LF cut and a whole host of level anomalies which the average user has absolutely no way of assessing.

Audio interconnects have much more subtle problems than video. Care must be taken to ensure that the cable is not incorrectly loading the equipment that it is connected to, it must not alter frequency response and it must provide adequate shielding.

Speaker cables are a whole other issue, one which I have studied extensively during my academic years in University.

When I return I will be quite happy to GET INTO this debate and provide some more information and advice, if it is asked for, but only from a technical point.

Paul