The Official 169time AVX-1 Technical Status Discussion - Page 108

You've got to be kidding! Both systems are Proprietary. They both use proprietary hardware that is installed in your STB. They both have proprietary non open source software.




Freeware??? the R5000 uses windows, the 169time uses a custom non-released version of linux. (IIRC GNU requires that the source is available to rebuild the kernel, I've never seen the 169time version)


upgrades for the avx-1 are few and far between. The R5000-HD folks have a comprehensive PVR and they have added support for simultaneous tape and disk recordings, all SD and HD channels, Motorola digital cable, and command line control. With the command line feature, someone wrote a program to integrate the r5000-hd into windows media center 2005!

Before you buy a 169time, read the threads on both and talk to the users of both...

TW

Edit

Wow! I just noticed that they successfully recorded MPEG-4 using the r5000-hd. http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/samples.htm

Dude there is a for sale forum, the mods will come down on this

please post in the for sale section or on videogon

-Gary

Thanks for this link !!! followed the steps, and everything works like it did before sp2.

I'm glad you found this post useful and salute you for discovering something I wrote about nearly a year ago. After re-reading this information from RME about the SP2 limitation on firewire transfer speeds, I'm still confused about why it doesn't work for our high definition program recording needs. None of the programming I work with has a bit rate exceeding 20 mbps. There is more to this issue, and Microsoft has yet to fully explain or rectify the problem, even with the new 64 bit operating system.

I'm still amazed at how few people actually realize that their firewire recording problems have to do with the SP2 bit rate issue and not improper 5C implementation by cable providers.

Bob

I have no problems with SP2 and CapDVHS

I have the 169time system that I use with DirecTV currently. Of course this year they are upgrading to new STB's using MPeg4 .
First, will these STB's have firewire? If not does anyone know if 169time is coming out with any new receiver modifications to support mpeg4?
Second, will there be any software updates to allow recording to Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD. I assume these new recorders will have firewire. I hope to with time convert to this from D-VHS but it doesn't work I assume I'd have to use my current system to record to D-VHS, then record it to Windows XP, then to HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray. I hope to avoid having to do all of this. Thank you for any help.

I have not seen any mention of whether or not the new DirecTV MPEG4 receivers will have firewire but feel certain there will be no firewire. There has been no mention of a definite 169time MPEG4 product being available but Richard might try. I doubt Blu-ray and/or HD-DVD will have MPEG2 firewire recorders affordable before DirecTV turns off the data. If there are very expensive MPEG2 Blu-ray or HD-DVD recorders available for a brief period of time before MPEG2 goes bye-bye, I assume enough owners would have to contact Richard to request new software if the recorders don't work with the current software and I would bet they won't.

Since nobody has modified a DirecTV MPEG4 receiver to add firewire as far as I know, there can be nothing but wild speculation about any of it.

Chris

Since Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are mpeg2 will these ever be able to record mpeg 4 or will they just record them as mpeg2? I'm kind of new to this still so a little confused.

Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD support mpeg-2, mpeg-4 part 10 (aka h.264) and wmvhd (aka SMPTE VC-1). At some point you'll be able to record any of these formats to a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc and play them back on a compatible player.



I seriously doubt that Richard will be selling a DirecTV mpeg-4 mod.


I'm an E* user, so I'm not that interested in D*. My speculation is that the R5000 folks will figure it out and offer something for E*.



TW

If Im right there is a D-VHS tool though. Since I have built up a large D-VHS collection can I use this program to take my D-VHS tapes and put them on Windows XP, then burn them to a blu-ray and/or hd-dvd drive in my PC? I'd hate to lose my D-VHS collection.

I have had the 169 system, modified HD Hughes 86 with firewire output and the Avix-1.
I HAVE HAD >>> NO >>> PROBLEMS.

Those who seemed to complain in seem to be attempting to use a timer on VCR or what ever and come back and did not work. FIRST any interruption from HD to SD can disrupt the stream, especially COMMERCIALS and you lose the firewire input.. Now many COMMERCIALS are in HD format.

Others are attempting to capture or transfer to computers. Richard, 169 PLAINLY FOR THOSE WHO CAN READ, states the system does not support Computers !!!

I would bet that those who are working with computers have a lot of $$ just in the computer.. add that to the cost ... also add to "Bill Gates" billions with Win XP PRO which I understand has some features to capture video.

What I do is go and set up to record HD 7 minutes early to insure a good data stream.
Just booting Avix takes 3 mins. I also have a small LCD monitor hooked to Avix so I can see boot and when it starts to search for HD stream. If you want to do this 2 or 6 hours early and hope all goes OK thats fine but if it loses the data stream due to commercials or going from a SA to HD program don't blame 169.
- 1st 5 to 7 mins prior go in and start up avix-1 as it takes time to boot
- 2nd Check firewire from STB to JVC and set plus obtain I-1
- 3rd Iwait until Avix begins to search for HD and plug in firewire from Avix to JVC
- 4th Make sure the I-1 changes to I-2
The reason for coming in early is on few occasions the I-1 and setup fails to work and you have to turn every thing off. Unplug all firewire cables and start re connecting. This always has worked. One must be sure about the I-1 and I-2. If they are not assigned properly you will have a problem.

So if you want to try a timer OK but I have never done that. Seems to work for some and on occassions data stream or I-1/2 does not set up and recording fails.

Also the Avix has a Linax program and runs at 900 to 977 mghz CPU no 1Ghz or higher.
My understanding it has a lot to do with timing in program ? !

Also 169 does not have the major million of $$$ to develope a system. Microsoft was at least 4 years behind any real Windows operating system for TV. Capture cards at $200 to $400 were only good for Sa or SD but no HD.

Also I have seen postings in the form for software... it is out there but they do not want to spend more than $100 the professional stuff for HD starts at $1400 for software and it works. # years ago a company was building professional for you computer systems with raid hd to capture HD data stream but costs started at $3500 to $5000. I am sure way over the head of those who run out and spend $5000 for plasma or HD system 4 years ago.

You can not expect to get a perfect system unless you are willing to spend the $$.
169 has been the least expensive system and always worked for me.
You want more feature go pay the $$ for Professional software and equipment.

In fact the "J R Tolkens " 3 hour movies as well as most high quality movies are now filmed using HD tape. This allows a much greater range for special effects. They film with 2000 X 2800 Pixels and each pixel is defined by a 10 or 12 bit code. One hour requires 500 gig storage. Now go get one

The big $$ boys are fighting over format for HD DVD... I wonder why. Also check all of your equipment and they all have a PyPbPr component out BUT NONE HAVE PyPbPr INPUT... I wonder way... they are not going to build or allow you access to do that !!!

Be happy with what you have . It will improve in the future, Once there is a HD DVD why bother unless you save money.

In every case from Broadcast to EvHd tv's and purchases are unaware it takes the HD signal and reformats it for the lower standard. even mpeg-4 is not going to give you what the movie makes get.

The end1
-

Wow, what a project! Are you trying to say its good or bad? It seems you've got the hand-holding down to a science, though. I also have to go through a sequence to get perfect recordings from my R5000-HD setup. I click on the record links in TitanTV and I'm done. The sofware even wakes up the PC to make the recordings if necessary. The captures to D-VHS and disk are both flawless. Apparently Nextcom has designed their own source packet creation filter for D-VHS that addresses the problems that plague other drivers. And, it didn't cost a lot of $$. Folks should know that there are professional-quality recording solutions out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.

TW

They already have.

Hi folks,

It's been a while since I've been on here and now I may have reason to regret it. I was irritated that I wasn't able to record and archive HD material along with rising cable costs and then found out about 169time's setup. I moved to DirecTV and picked up an AVX1 and HD receiver. Now, I know... I know... it says on 169's site that they do not support computer recording. But it does describe some methods that some users had used successfully to record to the computer. In fact I have gotten it to record to the computer. Great right!? Well, no. After having no success doing anything with the video once it's on the computer other than play it back I decided to come here and see if anyone could help me out. It looks like I should have come here first!

A.) I'd like to edit out the commercials and can't get the captured video into any application other than Videolan or CapDVHS (and others like it) to recognize the captured files. Am I just SOL? Is my only option to buy a DVHS deck to record to with commercials and all? I'd really rather not start creating a tape collection on a format that largely seems dying. That's basically where I was going with this until...

B.) I discovered the threads on the R5000-HD. I checked out their website and downloaded their sample HD content and it loads into all of my various video editing applications. It edits beautifully! Agh! This is exactly how I expected the 169time captures to work!

C.) Ideally I wanted to be able to use my computer as a DVR ... with something like BeyondTV and the 169time stream but I'll forgo that if I can just figure out how to get the captured video into any video editing application! I'm assuming it's just not possible since there's no way for the computer to change the channel on the STB.

Can someone tell me how to get the 169time video into a format that I can work with and edit on my computer?

Heeeelp! Thanks!

I have both 169time and R5000HD. Both can create TS files to your computer.
With 169time you do receiver->AVX1->Computer and then capture with DVHStool.
169time works best with WindowsXP-servicePack1 (better IEEE1394 drivers)

With R5000HD you use their app to capture TS files, and theirs works best with XP-servicePack2 (Better USB2 drivers).

Once you have TS files you can use HDTVTOMPEG2 to edit out commercials. Search around for the latest version that includes automatic commercial detection.

You can then use HDTVTOMPEG2 to create a new TS file with the commercials removed.
VideoLan can play the TS files on the PC or you can send them to DVHStape.
If you have 169time then use DVHStool to send back to tape.
If you have R5000HD then you can use their app to send to tape.

Note - R5000HD is simpler to use, and produces "cleaner" recordings with less errors. 169time seems to introduce occasional glitches every so often in most recordings.

Also, R5000HD has integrated program guide for easy timer recordings. 169time you basically just have to start a recording going and let it run long enough to capture everything then stop it by hand and edit it later.

There's a new version of my mpeg2repair utility which might be useful to those interested in capturing SD programming from Dish. Previously, this would only work for channels with AC3 audio. Channels with MPEG1 audio would lose sound in the captured file. If you run such a recording through my tool, it should restore the MPEG1 audio.

If the 169time software has trouble streaming, you may need to start recording on an AC3 channel and then switch over to the MPEG1 channel.

-Mark

I have been using the 169Time for over a year. I first started using it with a Motorola HDD-200 and a 4DTV receiver on C-band. I added the 169Time to the HDD-200 myself with the DIY kit. Last september I got cable and now I use the 169Time HDD-200 with the Motorola cable tuner and it works fine.

I have over 500 recordings that have ZERO errors. I did have to record some of them several times to get no glitches. I believe that most of the glitches I get are in the original stream as I can usually hear or see the problems while I am recording. The AVX-1 is an old Celeron 400 computer that I had on the shelf and it runs 24/7.

I capture from the HDD-200 using CapDVHS, DVHSTool gave me problems recording. I use a P4 2.8 GHz running XP with SP1. After capture I edit with HDTVtompeg2 and then scan for errors with mpeg2repair (great tool). Some of the recordings I then record to my JVC HD-5U using S-VHS tape using DVHSTool to record to the D-VHS. All the recordings are archived onto multiple DVDR disks with 10% parity files to repair any read errors that may occur on the DVDR disks in the future. The archived files are null packet stripped and are in 100 MByte pieces. If I want to play a recording from the DVDR's, I copy the DVDR's to my hard drive and then play with TheatreTek through the DVI connector to my 50 inch DLP HDTV set.

I am going to use the upgrade that R5000 is offering so that I can get the ability to program recordings and change channels on the cable tuner when I am not there. I just wanted to post this info to show that the 169Time mod does work, at least for some.

Mike T

I've had mine for over 2 years. Lots of trouble free recordings. I think both solutions have their uses. The biggest advantage that 169time has over the competition is that it doesn't require Windows XP. Because it emulates a D-VHS deck, it can be used with most firewire devices: Macs, Linux, PVR boxes, D-VHS, etc. The biggest advantage of the R5000 is that it's vastly easier to use because it was built around a Windows interface.

As a programmer, I prefer the open architecture of the 169time solution. Because of the D-VHS emulation, you can write your own software to do whatever you like with the device. I'm running my own scheduler/recorder/player tool which I prefer to what's offered by R5000. I can even watch live streams through any DirectShow capable player (VLC, MyHD, D-VHS deck, etc.) without having to record anything to disk. It's pretty useful when you're streaming HD to another room over LAN.

Just my 2 cents on the topic. I think both R5000 and 169time are great. They just have different design goals and limitations. Competition is always a good thing so let's hope both companies continue to develop new products in the future.

-Mark

Wizziwig - thats great about 169time, but unfortunately they had a longstanding problem with "glitches" in the recordings. The later software improved it a lot, but they are still (apparently) there on many recordings.

Can the MPEG2repair program really "fix" them fully?

Agreed. The early software was very poor, although usable if you only cared about JVC 30K playback and ignore the bugs inherent to that player. I helped them in testing/developing the current software so I'm more familiar with the system. I can't get into many details because of NDA I signed but their system will probably always have some issues due to its design.

Since it's Linux based, they are relying on public/freeware 1394 libraries which may not be as stable/reliable as commercial solutions on Windows. They also have to support direct recording to a large selection of devices, each with their own bugs and issues. I also get the feeling they have limited resources when it comes to programmers.

As far as my utility is concerned, it depends on the type of "glitch" and player you're talking about. You'll have to be more specific.

For playback/recording on a PC, the recordings are pretty much perfect. There is the occasional error towards the bottom edge of a frame but those are extremely rare (if ever) on most channels. You'll likely get more errors from provider and/or transmission issues. In any case, my tool repairs those types of errors in a way that will not be visible because of their pixel location.

-Mark

I have D* and E* both 169timed through to a PC. I have E6 AVX1 software. When I run your MPEG2repair on most recordings it will show that it has repaired a handful of errors on pretty much any recording.

I also have another system with the R5000HD mod. Typically your program doesn't indicate any problems from my recordings made on that system.

Perhaps there is some tendency for IEEE1394 to be less robust than the USB2?

Can you make a recording simultaneously on both 169time and R5000 from the same signal? That would rule out random transmission issues. If so, send me the logs (mpeg2repair@adelphia.net) and I can tell you if there's some problem with your 169time setup.

-Mark

I'll try to do this too, Mark. I have a pair of HDD-200s. I use the one w/ 169time for recording to my Mac and the one w/ r5000 for recording to my HTPC. I found that a simple "Y" splitter located next to the two HDD-200 boxes enables the use of both devices from a single DSR-922 receiver.

What kind of Y adapter...Firewire?

What kind of Y adapter, Firewire? I'm surprised that works and the 4DTV HD200 is always ON.

I think he is splitting the high speed data cable that comes out of the DSR-922 and feeds the HD200.

Kenny

As the HSI output is only a + - and ground, its pretty easy to power 2 HD200s.

I will try - both 6000s feed from the same dish.
By "same signal", I think you mean tune both 6000s to the same chan, and record the same program at the same time.

I am curious...will your D-VHS collection self-destruct at some set point after the introduction of BluRay or HD-DVD? Why would you think that ANY type of recordable DVD would be more archival than the proven technology of D-VHS? I have standard VHS tapes that I made back in 1980 that still play just as well as when I made them. That indicates that VHS is a good mediium for archival, and D-VHS should be even better, since the recording is digital as compared to analog VHS.

Any type of recordable DVD is a delicate medium, prone to damage which can make the recording unplayable. I certainly wouldn't destroy ANY tape I transferred to DVD of any type. You can purchase six D-VHS decks for what we are guessing the price of the first Blu-Ray recorders will cost. You could have a lifetime supply of back-up D-VHS recorders.

Anybody had experience with recording from two 6000s with 169time mod on one JVC 30k DVHS deck? Is it possible to connect them in this configuration 6000->JVC->AVX1->6000?
When only one 6000 is active, theoretically there should be no problem recording from the active one.
Any thoughts?