Los Angeles, CA - OTA - Page 6

Yes, KABC-DT runs at 38% the power of KCBS-DT, so you'll have a harder time tunning in from that far. I finally got it to lock in to KABC-DT and ALL other channels that carry HDTV or 480p widescreen, after finding the sweet spot with a Zenith Silver Sensor and my Holland Electronics HDA-25 Amp.

I've attached a picture of the signal levels I have with this stable no-dropout setting. I've upldoaded additional pictures of my Indoor antenna setup at: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...ase.yahoo.com/

GGoodrum, Thank you for all of your excellent advice.

For anyone who cares how this all started, you can look at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...21#post2111821

-----
Here is how my story turned out:

I discovered that I had a 50 foot cable running from my antenna to my computer, and that 25 feet of it were tangled up underneath a bush outside my house. I bought a 25 foot cable from radio shack that was "quadruple shielded" and this made my analog reception improve tremendously. However, my digital reception didn't change at all.

So I picked up an 1171 amplifier to see if that would solve my problem. Again, an increase in analog reception, but no more digital channels coming through, and tons of dropout on the ones that worked.

I bought two of the 2160s and tried them out, and all of my reception got worse.

I was beginning to think that ddwakeham was correct, "Many have indicated that the WinTV-HD card is a piece of junk."

So I went down to circuit city and picked up the Samsung sirt-151. I plugged it in (To my original antenna with the 1171 attached), and Viola! All of the digital channels worked, and they worked perfectly.

So I guess that it was completely a hardware problem after all.

Now I just need to return all of my extra hardware to radio shack, and decide whether or not to keep my 1171.

Anyone want to buy my WinTV-HD?

Just Kidding...I'm sure I can find someone on E-bay who wants to give one a try!

Glad to hear you are "up and running". I have a MyHD card that works quite well. It "shares" an antenna connection with a Zenith HDV-420.

I'd be willing to guess that over the longterm, the 1171 will help you remain dropout-free.

-- Gary

Campmaster-
I just got back from a HOA meeting about my Antenna! The board wants me to fill out a home improvement form and a impact statement. It also wants a drawing as to placement of the antenna. They don't seemed concerned about the antenna itself. The letter stated that they were responding to the TV antenna on the lattice in the back of the house. Since I have no neighbors in the back of the house and you can only see my patio cover from the sides, one of my immediate neighbors to the left and right of me must have complained. I just can't believe people worry about stuff like this! Anyway, fair warning some people in our neighborhood have nothing better to do.

Robert

Robert --

Regardless of who complained, the HOA doesn't have a leg to stand on if you have a completely detached house.

-- Gary

What gets me all hot under the collar is the fact that my HOA expects me to pay a fee to submit paperwork so that they can 'approve' the antennas that I am legally allowed to erect.

Andy.

they're crazy, fee my ass!

Robhair,
I just PM'd you.....

AndyS,
Do they charge everyone a fee to submit any type of architectural form (for painting or room additions etc..) or are they singling you out for your antenna??

Tom

The only question you have to ask yourself is if the lattice is common HOA property. If it is, then you need to comply with their rules or move it to an exclusive use part of your property. Once you are certain you don't have it on common property, simply submit to them a $0 fee and a printout of the following: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Robhair's association does not charge a fee to submit an architectural form, it's AndyS that seems to charge, which seems out of the ordinary to me.

mark_la is correct if it is common area wall, but in any case, architectural paper work usually must always be filed when any outdoor changes are made in a community with an HOA. Now, IF, after you submit your paperwork, they deny your OTA antenna application, and you meet the FCC guidelines, you have a strong leg to stand on to fight it. But just the mere request to fill out paperwork is not unreasonable, just as you would if you wanted to paint your house or add a patio cover or a room addition. This is simply another change to the outside of the home, the normal procedures would apply.

It only becomes an issue if they deny the application when you meet the FCC requirements, untill they deny it, it's a non-issue and a request to fill out paperwork, just like any other homeowner for any other type of exterior change, does not in itself go against the FCC ruling.

Hope this helps..
Tom

I think I remember Robert telling me at one point that the lattice was attached to his patio cover so assuming his house is detached, he should be okay. Tom is right though, until they disallow it, I don't think an application request from the HOA is unreasonable. Attaching a fee requirement is a whole different animal. I would fight that to the death! Andy, I'd print out and send them the FCC info Mark posted. It was enough to get my HOA off my back a year ago when they complained about my 3 DirecTV dishes (actually, one was for DirecPC but it's gone now...). I haven't heard a peep since I sent it to them.

-- Gary

Hello All,

After discovering this thread about a month ago, I finally have an HD setup and am ready to attempt OTA. I am currently using the Dish 6000U with the 8VSB tuner cartridge. I would greatly appreciate any advice on possible setup/configuration, even after re-reading this thread multiple times, a lot of the terminology is still confusing. I live on Camp Pendleton, just south of San Clemente. I live maybe 1/2 mile south of the Basilone exit, down in the valley, on the left, next to the 5 ( heading south ). According to AntennaWeb, my best shot is for the San Diego stations is along the 141 azimuth. It seems from my yard, I might have a clear shot ( almost ), shooting straight down the 5, between the nuke plant on the right and mountain ridge on the left. I realize it's mostly trial and error with both direction and elevation. It seems the majority of posters would recommend the RS 15-2160/15-1171 combo. It looks like the antenna, amp, mast and RG-6 can be picked up for around a hundred dollars. Due to the distance to the towers and and a relatively small narrow path, would this be a good starting point, or would you recommend a different antenna? Thanks in advance for your help.

Group,

The OC register had the second day of articles on HDTV. Our own Dwakeman was featured on the roof of his Dove Cyn. Home. So far the info was superficial at best. Just a FYI.

Robert

Gunfighter369,

Sounds like your on the right track. GGoodrum seems to have the most tech knowledge and I think his mother lives along the beach in that general area.

Robert

Thanks Robert,

I await his reply!

Gunfighter369 --

I would say that is a an excellent choice for your 1st "attempt" at OTA reception. Most of the direct path to the SD towers are over water so hopefully you won't have too much trouble with multipath. Here's a simple test: Try using an analog set, like a portable handheld TV, and see what kind of reception you get for SD channels 39 and 15. If they come in at all, even if they are "fuzzy" with lots of snow and not in color, chances are good the 2160 will work for you. The most important thing to check is to see if there are any multiple images, or "ghosting". That is an indication of multipath and the HD receiver won't like it. Also try moving the TV/antenna around your yard and see if one spot is better than another.

Keep as posted.

-- Gary

Thanks for the response Gary. I was hoping to " get it right " the 1st time, without multiple attampts. The RS here in San Clemente has the antenna and amp in stock, so Saturday will be the big day. Thanks again for the guidance. I'll keep you all posted.

You will be extremely lucky if get it perfect the first time. Most of us have had to go thru several antennas and preamp combinations!

Don's right. What works for one location may not work at all someplace else. We've seen that just in this thread. That said, I think I've seen the most success with the 2160/1171 combo. If it turns out the 2160 doesn't work out, you can always take it back and get your $22 back.

Actually, I will be pretty surprised if this doesn't work out for you. My mother's house is on the coast, up from where you are a bit and the 2160 worked better than a CM 4221 4-bay BT model but neither worked as well as a Silver Sensor (with an 1171...).

-- Gary

Gary and Don,

I think I worded my response wrong. I home with two little ones, and making multiple trips up and down the roof and to and from Radio Shack can become difficult. Two additional questions. Gary, you said that the 2160 worked better than the Channel Master, but neither worked as well as the SS. Would I be better off trying to find someone with a SS and go with that first? According to AntennaWeb, I need to go with 141 for the primary channels I want. The other channels are on the 129/130 azimuth, which is blocked by a rather large ridge line, maybe 5 miles away. Would one antenna be better than the other, to possibly aim "in-between" those two azimuth's? Last, does RS sell RG-6 pre terminated? I have around a 35 ft run to make, obviously 25ft is to short. Is a 50 ft run of cable going to cause any problems, and what should I do with the remaining cable? I was under the impression that coiling cable was bad, causes ground loops, etc. Thank you again for the help!

I still think the 2160 is the way to go for starters. First, I'd point it at the "ridgeline" stations and see what you get. You might just get lucky and be able to receive the Mt. Solodad channels too. If not, but you do get the others, you can try in between. Actually the CM 4221, like Don uses, might work better in this scenario as it is somewhat less directional but I still think I'd start with the 2160. It will handle multipath better than the 4221. BTW, did you ever try the test with an anaolg TV to see if you get any ghosting?

As for cabling, if you need 35 feet, I'd get one 25-foot cable (RG6 and yes RS has them...) and one 10-foot and put the 1171 in between. Ideally, it would work best if the 10-foot section is connected to the antenna. If you can get power outside you could mount the 1171 under an eave or something. It is a sealed unit and is very sturdy. The point is that the amp loses its effectiveness the longer the run is from the antenna. 25 feet is probably okay but 35 is too much, I think. A CM 7775 "preamp" in place of the 1171 would solve this problem, as the amp portion is separate from the power supply so you can mount the amp with the antenna and the PS inside (it feeds power back up the cable to the amp...), but it is about $60 and you'll have to order it online.

If it turns out the 2160 won't do the trick, I have a spare 4221 that you can try and if that won't cut it either I have another idea. I use two Silver Sensors mounted one above and in front of the other and at a 45 degree "angle-of-attack". These are then connected together and routed through an 1171. I use this combo inside, in a loft, pointing out through a skylight in my living room, towards Mt. Wilson. I have the output of the amp routed to a Zenith HDV-420 and a PC with a MyHD card. This setup works amazingly well and I get very few dropouts and most of those are on the MyHD card (maybe one a week...). I probably just got lucky and found the perfect "sweet" spot but when my neighbor asked me help him get setup we had a real problem with his wife not wanting a big ugly antenna outside, and inside was not an option. What I did for him is the same dual SS setup but we mounted them under an eave, outside. It works great! Anyway, I haven't tried this setup at my mother's yet but the only setup I've found that works better at my place is dual 2160s. Somewhere in this thread are some links to some pictures but to save time here's one of the dual SS setup again:



You know, to start you probably don't need to mount everything on the roof from the git-go. I think you could get a 10-foot mast (from Lowe's or Home Depot...) and mount the antenna on it so you can move around the yard a bit to see if one spot is better than another. One member here lashed one these to a step ladder for this purpose. That way you can use shorter cable runs for the amp so that you can remove it from the "unknown" category when you are testing what works and what doesn't. This will make the pointing test much easier to do. Also, if it turns out the 2160 isn't doing the job, it will make it easier to swap it out and try the 4221 and/or a pair of SS.

-- Gary

Gary,

I was going to go with a 10ft mast, mounted to one of the 4x4's supporting my awning. So I will definitely try supporting it with a ladder to try and find a "sweet-spot". I have a 13" TV I can bring outside to try out the antenna set-up before affixing it. Couple more questions for ya'... the 1171 preamp is powered? So I'll need to plug it in and run a second cord, or does it get it power through the RG-6? I ask, because looking at the picture on the web site doesn't show an additional connection of a power line. Mounting the pre-amp outside isn't a problem, there's plenty of places to hide it. So I want to mount as close to the antenna as possible? Okay, 1st use just the 2160 and see what kind of signal I can pull in. Then, add the 1171 to see if that improves anything. If the run is 35ft or greater go with the CM 7775. And if nothing works, then a different antenna is the next setp. Thank you. I have a good plan in place now. Again, I greatly appreciate the advice!!! If you can think of anything else, I check the forum regularly, and hopefully I'll have some positive results to add Saturday night!

The 1171 needs its own power-brick power supply separate line.
Gunfighter, I did similar to what you are proposing - I mounted a 5foot mast (got at Fry's for $5, they have 10foot masts too that are extendable) to a 4x4 wood post on my back porch cover. I used 2 U-bolts to attach the mast to the post. My best results in my area have been with the Channel Master model 4221 4bay bowtie and I need no preamp at all for all the San Diego channels, but I am inland. At my location the CM4221's beamwidth (about 60 degrees) was perfect to receive all the San Diego stations by pointing due south. Some of the stations are to the south-east and others are south-west, so a too directional antenna (like the YAGIs) might require a rotor otherwise, but the bowties are wide enough to do it without a rotor in this case. Since the 4221 was only around $25 - this was also the cheapest solution for me that worked. I needed an outside RG6 coax cable run of around 75feet. I am now using two 50feet sections joined together, I didn't see any difference between this and 1-50foot + 1-25foot section. 100feet of RG6 coax is under 1db of loss at UHF frequencies, so its not really an issue - I wouldn't worry about 35foot!

Thanks Don. Does the 1171 come with it's own power cord and if so, how long is it? Also, where is the 4221 available? I just called my local RS and them and pretty much every other RS searched were out of the 2160 antenna. How large of an antenna is the Channel Master? One last question. Do antenna's require a ground of some sort? Should I ground the antenna to the mast and the mast to an earth ground or is this overkill?

The 1171's power supply line is like typical power brick supplies about 6feet.

Here is a link to where I bought my CM4221, it shows a picture and dimensions - its very low profile:
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm

Thanks for the gouge Don. I was kinda' hoping to find it somewhere local. Hmm.... only a 6 ft. power cord. I guess I'll have to run an extension cord out there.

Gunfighter,
I have an RS 15-2160 that I was about to return to RS - in Rancho Sana Margarita this weekend. If you want it, I will sell it to ya instead of returning it if you are having trouble finding one.

I am located in Trabuco Canyon, in my situation, I am using the RS15-1171 and a Channel Master 4228 on the 4x4 post of my patio cover with a 10ft mast and it is working VERY well for my for San Diego, CBS, NBA, ABC, FOX ,WB and PBS. I am pointed about 141degrees.

Let me know if you need the antenna!
Thanks,
Tom

Thanks for the offer Tom! I appreciate that. I'll let you know by Fri morning. That gives me the rest of the day today and tomorrow to search around some more! If I can ask, what elevation are you at and how's your line of sight in that direction?

Like I said, I have a spare 4221 if you need or want to go that route. At your distance I think it is safe to say an amp is definitely going to help. If you have a 110V outlet in your patio using the 1171 will be easy as nd the run to the antenna will be short. Going from there, as Don points out, can be pretty much any length because it is after the amplification. Going straight from the antenna to the receiver might be fine for longer distances but if you are going to amplify the signal you need to place the amp as close as possible to the antenna. Otherwise you are also amplifying the extra noise and that gives fits to digital receivers.

-- Gary

Now ya'll are going to make me decide??? ummm.... I'll take whichever antenna works best please! Unfortunately, no outlets on the porch. But, there's plenty of places to hide an outdoor cord, so no worries there. Can the amp attach directly to the antenna? Or do I need a 6"/1ft section of cable to "splice" it into the path? Again, thanks for the assistance and offering up your spare antennas! Now I guess I just need to make up my mind.